Social Welfare cut but Public Service Pay not ?

Leiva

galway2007 wrote: »

well go to this link and you might understand that once again public sector workers are paying more than any other worker
http://budget.gov.ie/budgets/2011/Documents/Part%20C%20-%20Annexes%20to%20SBM%20FINAL.pdf
Then come back and finish your rant
draw you a picture???

Rant ??

Painting pictures ?

Smoking Drugs ?

galway2007

ntlbell wrote: »

how was it a 14% cut? if your talking about pension levy, this is not a pay cut, people in the private sector have to provide their own pensions and it will be money you get back.



15,000 are gone? source? were these part-time/contracters or permanent staff? redudency's?



This doesn't affect anyone in the PS currently.


You mean the pensions are now going to be brought into a state they should have been previously?



what has the private sector pain got to do with your employer not being able to afford your wages?

http://www.budget.gov.ie/The National Recovery Plan 2011-2014.pdf
Plus 3600 from the HSE due to leave end of December
The pain that ye all suffered yesterday might finally make ye see that it was private sector employers who ****ed up this country with greed that caused inflation of 5 % causing massive wage inflation. Now all ye do is moan and moan while most people in the public sector get on with there work for less pay, with less people, and less funding and still have to listen to crap talked by idiots on this website
We all have to pay the price and the public sector have paid a lot more than most and if you are not happy with that leave the country and use the following link as Ireland is sick of people in the private sector moaning.
www.ryanair.com

Stark

Didn't realise the Financial Regulator was private sector now.

fliball123

lornakg wrote: »

Exactly!! Why does the op think public servants have got no cuts in the budget?? Public servants are getting the same prsi and levy changes as everyone else so their wages are been cut, along with everyone elses even though they already got a 14% pay cut this year. Why do people on welfare resent, public servants, who work for their money, getting a wage?
4% was not a big enough cut off jobseekers allowance. Anyone who has been unemployed all through the 'boom' years should have had a cut of at least 25%

Because they get paid too much and its not just people on the doll its private sector workers who resent this too

ntlbell

galway2007 wrote: »

http://www.budget.gov.ie/The National Recovery Plan 2011-2014.pdf
Plus 3600 from the HSE due to leave end of December
The pain that ye all suffered yesterday might finally make ye see that it was private sector employers who ****ed up this country with greed that caused inflation of 5 % causing massive wage inflation. Now all ye do is moan and moan while most people in the public sector get on with there work for less pay, with less people, and less funding and still have to listen to crap talked by idiots on this website
We all have to pay the price and the public sector have paid a lot more than most and if you are not happy with that leave the country and use the following link as Ireland is sick of people in the private sector moaning.
www.ryanair.com

so where have these jobs been lost? I see a plan there. I'm looking for what's actually happened to date, where they have came from, contract/permanent/etc

private sector employees who f*cked up the country? but the PS was happy to benchmark against and increase public sector pay on? leading us to borrow billions to pay their wages and have them swaning off at xmas on the tax payers dime to go shopping? who do go slows and create back logs of 60k passports?

who let 50k xrays go without viewing which could have led to people diying?

Yes the private sector ruined everything

real world please.

Thedogsgone

fliball123 wrote: »

Facts are P.S is overpaid end of story

Dunno, I would have assumed if they were the recent intervention by the IMF/ECB would have demanded a cut. They demanded all sorts of others, e.g. The minimum wage.

galway2007

fliball123 wrote: »

Because they get paid too much and its not just people on the doll its private sector workers who resent this too

The pension is over paid
The dole is over paid
The private sector is 20% over paid hence no investment coming here
If we slash private sector wages by 20% or even 30% we will see cost come down, people will start to spend money and jobs will be created
It is the only way forward

Blondini

fliball123 wrote: »

Facts are P.S is overpaid end of story

Who told you that "fact"?
Joe Duffy, The Indo or Kevin Myers?

Thedogsgone

galway2007 wrote: »

The pension is over paid
The dole is over paid
The private sector is 20% over paid hence no investment coming here
If we slash private sector wages by 20% or even 30% we will see cost come down, people will start to spend money and jobs will be created
It is the only way forward

In theory given the cuts in yesterdays budget should lead to prices falling and the economy gaining in the longer term. However given the interest rate increases (one of the biggest drivers of inflation) that are coming costs in the economy will actually go up.

Leiva

Thedogsgone wrote: »

Dunno, I would have assumed if they were the recent intervention by the IMF/ECB would have demanded a cut. They demanded all sorts of others, e.g. The minimum wage.

Yea but dont forget who was negotiating with the IMF/EU.

The FF / Union Bum Buddies .

Im surprised David Begg wasn't invited to the discussions , he sits at the table of most of the other boards.

kermitpwee

ntlbell wrote: »

board gais and air tricty are offering significant discounts, how it not falling?

people on SW shouldn't need to use much petrol/diesel for the majority of cases.

I don't need the goverment to tell me the cost of living is going down I can see it for myself anyone who can't is doing something wrong.

Please look at the following

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CPM01C1.asp&TableName=January+to+2010&StatisticalProduct=DB_CP

Prices have increased since Jan 2010.

If you cannot see what I am pointing to then you are doing something wrong!

Now in fairness to you in 2009 prices dropped by 4.5% on 2008 so we are cheaper than 2008 levels but prices are on the rise in 2010.

Thedogsgone

mixednuts wrote: »

Yea but dont forget who was negotiating with the IMF/EU.

The FF / Union Bum Buddies .

Im surprised Davis Begg wasn't invited to the discussions , he sits at the table of most of the other boards.

I doubt the IMF/ECB give a monkeys about ICTU and their cronies think to be honest. The minimum wage cut was evidence of that.

I also think to call it a negotiation is slightly misleading, the govt basically opened the books, the IMF/ECB saw what a disaster they were and basically said we will give you the cash if you implement the 4 year plan starting with yesterdays budget.

There was nothing in that budget yesterday that wasnt approved by the IMF/ECB.

Stark

ESB prices fell dramatically in 2009 and there were Bord Gáis/Airtricity discounts on top of that. We're still much better off than in 2008 in that regard.

galway2007

ntlbell wrote: »

so where have these jobs been lost? I see a plan there. I'm looking for what's actually happened to date, where they have came from, contract/permanent/etc

private sector employees who f*cked up the country? but the PS was happy to benchmark against and increase public sector pay on? leading us to borrow billions to pay their wages and have them swaning off at xmas on the tax payers dime to go shopping? who do go slows and create back logs of 60k passports?

who let 50k xrays go without viewing which could have led to people diying?

Yes the private sector ruined everything

real world please.

where i work we have lost about 200 staff some contract staff others retired
The plan states on page 63 that 12k has left.
Idiots here and in the Irish media reported that 350k were employed in the public sector but on page 63 it state that there is now 307 k so we must have lost 43 k if we are to believe people here and in the media
Benchmarking was not the problem
The problem was wage agreement to keep up with inflation caused my private sector greed. If inflation was keep at 2% the public sector would be on 15 % less.
Now for the real world you talk about
80 billion we borrow because of PRIVATE SECTOR BANKS
Are you in this world???

ntlbell

kermitpwee wrote: »

Please look at the following

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CPM01C1.asp&TableName=January+to+2010&StatisticalProduct=DB_CP

Prices have increased since Jan 2010.

If you cannot see what I am pointing to then you are doing something wrong!

You stated restraunts etc have falling and show something showing an increase?

They have fallen drastically over the last two years.

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CPM01.asp&TableName=January+to+December+2009&StatisticalProduct=DB_CP

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CPM01C8.asp&TableName=January+to+December+2008&StatisticalProduct=DB_CP

The wrong you were doing was being very selective with your statistics

fliball123

Godge wrote: »

You seem to have had a very privileged upbringing (as a kid) or a very good job (as a parent) if that is your experience of parenting. If only the rich could have kids, the world would be full of spoiled brats.

Some people have no choice.

In Ireland our social welfare rates are twice what they should be. However, our supports to enable mothers to work are a quarter of what they should be.

We have a completely messed up system that favours sitting on the dole rather than getting a job. Imagine if we took 20 euro off the dole and used that money to subsidise child care for working parents. The effect would be to encourage people to work.

Ditto the screwing up of overpaying public servants

ntlbell

galway2007 wrote: »

where i work we have lost about 200 staff some contract staff others retired

So no permanent staff let go?

galway2007 wrote: »

The plan states on page 63 that 12k has left.

How many of the 12k were permanent fully employed staff?

galway2007 wrote: »

Benchmarking was not the problem
The problem was wage agreement to keep up with inflation caused my private sector greed. If inflation was keep at 2% the public sector would be on 15 % less.

The whole PS taking large wage increases based on no performance only the hard work of the private sector, then blame the private sector for it?

galway2007 wrote: »

Now for the real world you talk about
80 billion we borrow because of PRIVATE SECTOR BANKS
Are you in this world???

that's right no PS workers took out large mortgages they couldn't afford or bought holidays home or loaded up with credit card and car finance.

It was all is fun boys in the private sector.

Banks != A whole sector.

galway2007

ntlbell wrote: »

You stated restraunts etc have falling and show something showing an increase?

They have fallen drastically over the last two years.

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CPM01.asp&TableName=January+to+December+2009&StatisticalProduct=DB_CP

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CPM01C8.asp&TableName=January+to+December+2008&StatisticalProduct=DB_CP

The wrong you were doing was being very selective with your statistics

My house insurance has gone up 40%
My car insurance gone up 15%
My Health insurance going up 10% in January
Petrol gone up 8 cent a liter (4 cent tax)
Banks have increased mortgage rates
I don’t need any cso to tell me that the private sector are starting to screw the people again

kermitpwee

ntlbell wrote: »

You stated restraunts etc have falling and show something showing an increase?

They have fallen drastically over the last two years.

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CPM01.asp&TableName=January+to+December+2009&StatisticalProduct=DB_CP

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CPM01C8.asp&TableName=January+to+December+2008&StatisticalProduct=DB_CP

The wrong you were doing was being very selective with your statistics

If you look at my post again you will see that i have edited it to allow for the 4.5% decrease in 2009. The fact is that prices are on the increase in 2010 whether you like it or not. You have been selective in your tables you have published 2008 and 2009 and not 2010.
Social welfare was cut in 2009 when there was a drop in prices and thats fine. Social welfare has now been cut for 2010-2011 and for the first 10 months of the CPI 2010 index prices have risen. Can you explain this to me?
Yes things are cheaper now then in 2008 but last year in 2009 people on social welfare had more money then they will have from now on even though products are more expensive now in 2010-2011. Do you think that this is equitable?

kippy

Okay,
Gonna dip in here.
Obviously some people want to see full time permanent staff made redundant.
Others believe this has happened because numbers have gone down.
I amnt making a call on either opinion just pointing out a fact.

THE main reason numbers have fallen in the public sector (outside of the non renewal of contracted workers contracts) is because of retirements.
Generally retired staff have not been replaced as there is a major hiring freeze on at the moment.
This is going to continue, from what I can tell, for the next few years. The majority of the numbers cut is coming through natural processes and the non replacement of these staff.
I would think another (small) portion may be missing from the numbers as a result of incentivised career breaks which were brought in in the past few budgets.
The above is fact and not based on hearsay or otherwise.

On the second point,
Generally cost of living has fallen, certain parts of these costs will continue to fall over the next few years for the simple reason that people have less money.
However, there are other costs, some within state control, that have risen or are at an all time low at the moment. I am talking fuel (carbon taxes increased yesterday, more on petrol and diesel), electricity, and interest rates (they dont effect everyone but they have a knock on effect on state borrowing and other factors within society)
Obviously these costs hit everyone, not just PS however I wanted to clarify that.

fliball123

galway2007 wrote: »

well go to this link and you might understand that once again public sector workers are paying more than any other worker
http://budget.gov.ie/budgets/2011/Documents/Part%20C%20-%20Annexes%20to%20SBM%20FINAL.pdf
Then come back and finish your rant
draw you a picture???

You mean getting PAID more than any other worker

ntlbell

galway2007 wrote: »

My house insurance has gone up 40%

Mines stagnet, maybe shop around?

edit wrong way around

galway2007 wrote: »

My car insurance gone up 15%

Mines gone down. shop around.

galway2007 wrote: »

My Health insurance going up 10% in January

A lot of SW have receiptants have medical cards.

galway2007 wrote: »

Petrol gone up 8 cent a liter (4 cent tax)

Yup.

galway2007 wrote: »

Banks have increased mortgage rates

While we have the lowest interest rates in history. some people on SW have their interest paid by SW. Others shouldn't be using their SW payment to service loans.

galway2007 wrote: »

I don’t need any cso to tell me that the private sector are starting to screw the people again

Yea, sure who needs stats.

ntlbell

kermitpwee wrote: »

If you look at my post again you will see that i have edited it to allow for the 4.5% decrease in 2009. The fact is that prices are on the increase in 2010 whether you like it or not. You have been selective in your tables you have published 2008 and 2009 and not 2010.
Social welfare was cut in 2009 when there was a drop in prices and thats fine. Social welfare has now been cut for 2010-2011 and for the first 10 months of the CPI 2010 index prices have risen. Can you explain this to me?
Yes things are cheaper now then in 2008 but last year in 2009 people on social welfare had more money then they will have from now on even though products are more expensive now in 2010-2011. Do you think that this is equitable?

because the SW payments are too high and we're borrowing billions to finance a SW bill we can't afford.

It's not really that complicated.

fliball123

galway2007 wrote: »

http://www.budget.gov.ie/The National Recovery Plan 2011-2014.pdf
Plus 3600 from the HSE due to leave end of December
The pain that ye all suffered yesterday might finally make ye see that it was private sector employers who ****ed up this country with greed that caused inflation of 5 % causing massive wage inflation. Now all ye do is moan and moan while most people in the public sector get on with there work for less pay, with less people, and less funding and still have to listen to crap talked by idiots on this website
We all have to pay the price and the public sector have paid a lot more than most and if you are not happy with that leave the country and use the following link as Ireland is sick of people in the private sector moaning.
www.ryanair.com

and the public sector didnt ...will you go and ask my arse...The government (public sector) are the people responsible for making policy and dictating what happens in this country and ultimately the buck stops with them for all of this countries wows

ntlbell

I see the financial regulator doesn't seem to be taken any responisility in this thread.

what was his wages?

fliball123

Thedogsgone wrote: »

Dunno, I would have assumed if they were the recent intervention by the IMF/ECB would have demanded a cut. They demanded all sorts of others, e.g. The minimum wage.

The IMF only have a figure of 3% by 2014 they dont care how its implemented...but these cuts will come FG seem hell bent on further cuts to the public sector wage and I will be voting for them come Jan/Feb

fliball123

galway2007 wrote: »

The pension is over paid
The dole is over paid
The private sector is 20% over paid hence no investment coming here
If we slash private sector wages by 20% or even 30% we will see cost come down, people will start to spend money and jobs will be created
It is the only way forward

Private sector pay has come down....and our taxes do not go on paying the private sector..The only way forward is to cut P.s by 25% its a joke that in these times that incements are still going on in the p.s its a joke.....Show me evidence that the private sector is 20% overpaid show me evidence of where no investment is coming ...Your full of bs

fliball123

Blondini wrote: »

Who told you that "fact"?
Joe Duffy, The Indo or Kevin Myers?

No the numerous reports where they have been compared to both the private sector equivilents and where there are no such equivilent to their EU counterparts..

ERSI have done one as have other groups

fliball123

galway2007 wrote: »

where i work we have lost about 200 staff some contract staff others retired
The plan states on page 63 that 12k has left.
Idiots here and in the Irish media reported that 350k were employed in the public sector but on page 63 it state that there is now 307 k so we must have lost 43 k if we are to believe people here and in the media
Benchmarking was not the problem
The problem was wage agreement to keep up with inflation caused my private sector greed. If inflation was keep at 2% the public sector would be on 15 % less.
Now for the real world you talk about
80 billion we borrow because of PRIVATE SECTOR BANKS
Are you in this world???

Because the financial regulators (public sector) and govenment (public sector) put in the regulations for the banks to do this and never questioned it...All of our wows can be scripted back to the gov which is the public sector...

kermitpwee

ntlbell wrote: »

because the SW payments are too high and we're borrowing billions to finance a SW bill we can't afford.

It's not really that complicated.

Thank you for giving such a open ended response.

Kitten88

Ive worked in a bar for years and listened to conversations of customers slating anyone and everyone that earn more money than them, it must be an ego thing to put down the next Joe soap who earns a bit more and that's exactly what this has turned into and I think its a sorry state of affairs.

People on social welfare turning on the public sector saying they should be cut and not welfare, people in the private sector turning on the public sector because now their jobs look like a better offer then what they've currently got. People in the public sector now taking a hit for working mediocre jobs while everyone around them in the bloom lapped it up and didnt give them a seconds thought.

People need to stop begrudging what the next person has, there will always be rich and poor in every society. People will have highs and lows in theirs lives but its each persons choice to step up to their own mark make the best of what they have and its not the right of any person to judge the next.

fliball123

ntlbell wrote: »

because the SW payments are too high and we're borrowing billions to finance a SW bill we can't afford.

It's not really that complicated.

Ditho Public sector payments

fliball123

Kitten88 wrote: »

Ive worked in a bar for years and listened to conversations of customers slating anyone and everyone that earn more money than them, it must be an ego thing to put down the next Joe soap who earns a bit more and that's exactly what this has turned into and I think its a sorry state of affairs.

People on social welfare turning on the public sector saying they should be cut and not welfare, people in the private sector turning on the public sector because now their jobs look like a better offer then what they've currently got. People in the public sector now taking a hit for working mediocre jobs while everyone around them in the bloom lapped it up and didnt give them a seconds thought.

People need to stop begrudging what the next person has, there will always be rich and poor in every society. People will have highs and lows in theirs lives but its each persons choice to step up to their own mark make the best of what they have and its not the right of any person to judge the next.

Not that simplistic...basically if the dole and P.S stay at the current levels my tax goes up to pay for it

Kitten88

fliball123 wrote: »

Not that simplistic...basically if the dole and P.S stay at the current levels my tax goes up to pay for it

Its gonna go up anyway your just gonna have to deal with it or emmigrate.

fliball123

Kitten88 wrote: »

Its gonna up anyway your just gonna have to deal with it or emmigrate.

Yeah but if FG get in it means that the P.S will be cut and not as much will come out of my tax to pay their wages

Kitten88

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah but if FG get in it means that the P.S will be cut and not as much will come out of my tax to pay their wages

Perhaps, we'll just have to wait and see and stop stressing yourself out until that happens or your going to end up back on this website giving out about the shoddy HSE!!

fliball123

Kitten88 wrote: »

Perhaps, we'll just have to wait and see and stop stressing yourself out until that happens or your going to end up back on this website giving out about the shoddy HSE!!

Well the HSE is completely out of tilter with most other countries in the world...you dont want me getting started on that...The point I was making here is that one particular P.S head was saying that the bonus at xmas for the unemployed was not a cut and then in the same breath said that the pension levy was a cut when it is actually a contribution to a defined benefit

Kitten88

fliball123 wrote: »

Well the HSE is completely out of tilter with most other countries in the world...you dont want me getting started on that...The point I was making here is that one particular P.S head was saying that the bonus at xmas for the unemployed was not a cut and then in the same breath said that the pension levy was a cut when it is actually a contribution to a defined benefit

Cheer up, maybe the IMF will take over all financial control of the country cut P.S in half and and the S.W to 50 euro a week abolish child benefit and then we'll be all talking about the good old days of a Fianna Fail led government in a bar in Sydney!

fliball123

Kitten88 wrote: »

Cheer up, maybe the IMF will take over all financial control of the country cut P.S in half and and the S.W to 50 euro a week abolish child benefit and then we'll be all talking about the good old days of a Fianna Fail led government in a bar in Sydney!

Well in farness I wouldnt go that far...but there needs to be more cuts and less taxing ...we are at the point of diminishing returns...The last thing the country needs is tax payers emigrating

The Nutty M

fliball123 wrote: »

Well in farness I wouldnt go that far...but there needs to be more cuts and less taxing ...we are at the point of diminishing returns...The last thing the country needs is tax payers emigrating

I agree with you fully on the more cuts and less taxing.While not necessarily tax payers,the drop in the live register over the past 3 months is a good indication of whats happening.

Heres an editors letter to the Independant last sunday,makes for lovely reading. (hope it works)

Poccington

fliball123 wrote: »

No the numerous reports where they have been compared to both the private sector equivilents and where there are no such equivilent to their EU counterparts..

ERSI have done one as have other groups

According to the ERSI, while pretty much every other part of the PS recieved large pay premium's, the Defence Forces still remained lower paid than their Private Sector equivalent.

Does that mean my wages can be left alone? :P






(Question was made in jest...)

microbio

ntlbell wrote: »

how was it a 14% cut? if your talking about pension levy, this is not a pay cut, people in the private sector have to provide their own pensions and it will be money you get back.


The pension levy is a levy on pensions (a charge imposed or collected). We do not get itback in a nice lump sum on retirement. It is a paycut or charge for having the fantastic pension scheme that everyone outside the general public sector seems to think is worth our salaries being cut again. It is no more a long term savings plan than the income levy.

ntlbell wrote: »

15,000 are gone? source? were these part-time/contracters or permanent staff? redudency's?


Speaking for my own former PS employer approximately 250 people have finished contracts. While these are not redundancies, this were people on EU funded projects whose salaries/pension contributions etc were paid by the EU and not Ireland. The project funds also contributed to overheads of my ex-employer. The moratorium on hiring meant any new projects/contracts could not be put in place and the exchequer lost money or cut off their nose to spite their face!


I really hate these public Vs private battles. Employees in both sectors are being screwed at the moment. Yes the public ssector requires major reform and I don't think you will find one PS employee under 35-40 that doesn't think so. From my own experience of two large public sector bodies, (generalistion alert) thoses nearing retirement/ institutionalised are not worth the space they take up and want compensation for the most minor changes in work practices. Most of my won age group (that I know) would agree that we're happy to have a job and be able to pay our bills at this stage.

As for the OP original point-
Cutting social welfare by 4% is a necessary evil and everyone is taking a cut. Don't worry, those of you baying for PS blood will get it next year no doubt. In the meantime, can we try to sympathise with one another- I don't want to see you on the breadline- why do you want to see me there?! (not directed at OP- but to general anti-PS brigade!)

microbio

_michelle_ wrote: »

Really what about the christmas bonus that was abolished :rolleyes:?? Thats not a cut, because as far as I'm concerned & anyone else who every got it, it was a substancial cut!

No one wants to see people in genuine need lose badly needed cash at xmas. The dole bonus payment went with all the other things we couldn't afford. Was there demonstrations over this at the time?
Agreed- if you were depending on 200E at xmas and you didn't get it then yes, it's difficult to re-arrange your spending as you wouldn't have prepared for it. This is how people end up in dire circumstances.
On the other hand, I don't agree that people should get a bonus for not contributing (through no fault of their own!) to the economy.

Duiske

ntlbell wrote: »

because the SW payments are too high and we're borrowing billions to finance a SW bill we can't afford.

It's not really that complicated.

You keep trottimg this same line out. "We can't afford it" Funnily enough, according to the IMF/ECB, we can afford it, if we stick to a plan of cutting our costs over the next number of years.

So who should we believe. The Government with their 4 year plan, checked and approved by the IMF/ECB, or you, ntlbell, with your 1 day "chop, chop" plan ?

ntlbell

Duiske wrote: »

You keep trottimg this same line out. "We can't afford it" Funnily enough, according to the IMF/ECB, we can afford it, if we stick to a plan of cutting our costs over the next number of years.

So who should we believe. The Government with their 4 year plan, checked and approved by the IMF/ECB, or you, ntlbell, with your 1 day "chop, chop" plan ?

The IMF and ECB said we can afford our SW bill?

source?

ntlbell

microbio wrote: »

The pension levy is a levy on pensions (a charge imposed or collected). We do not get itback in a nice lump sum on retirement. It is a paycut or charge for having the fantastic pension scheme that everyone outside the general public sector seems to think is worth our salaries being cut again. It is no more a long term savings plan than the income levy.

You get a return on it based on a very hansome pension that private sector wokrers have to pay for themselves.

microbio wrote: »

Speaking for my own former PS employer approximately 250 people have finished contracts. While these are not redundancies, this were people on EU funded projects whose salaries/pension contributions etc were paid by the EU and not Ireland. The project funds also contributed to overheads of my ex-employer. The moratorium on hiring meant any new projects/contracts could not be put in place and the exchequer lost money or cut off their nose to spite their face!

So again, no permanent full time staff lost thier jobs?

kippy

ntlbell wrote: »

You get a return on it based on a very hansome pension that private sector wokrers have to pay for themselves.




So again, no permanent full time staff lost thier jobs?

Current public sector workers fund a large proportion of their pension themselves - and the benefits and calculations of how much vary from area to area - even the spouse and children pension which many dont even avail of but still have to pay. Those in the public sector the shortest are funding more of their pension than those that have been their a longer time and this will continue to be the case.
Public sector pensions are also aligned with statutory pensions meaning the total amount is made up of statutory and public so the public section is essentially public - statutory.

Many people actually believe that public sector workers have made no contribution to their pension up until recently when this has not been the case.

Also this budget has changed the pensions for new entrants who have a lesser valued pension scheme, which basicilly ensures their final pension entitlements are based on their average earnings in the public sector, not just over the last two - three years. This means vastly reduced pensions for those who are coming into the sector in the future. This is something I agree with and something that had to be done, and indeed something which should and probably will be rolled out across the sector in the coming years.
There also has been a taxation charge to any pensioner (public - not sure if it applies to private) which is earning more than 12K per annum in pensions.

I'm not sure exactly what you want to see here ntlbell.

To be honest, the bigger issue (for me) at the moment is the fact that 17.5 billion of the states pension reserve is being "invested" in the banks, instead of into something that will garner a return (such as toll roads or energy generation)
But that seems to be getting lost for some people.


Sorry, I've answered your final question above.
No permanent full time staff were made redundant.

ntlbell

kippy wrote: »

Current public sector workers fund a large proportion of their pension themselves - and the benefits and calculations of how much vary from area to area - even the spouse and children pension which many dont even avail of but still have to pay. Those in the public sector the shortest are funding more of their pension than those that have been their a longer time and this will continue to be the case.
Public sector pensions are also aligned with statutory pensions meaning the total amount is made up of statutory and public so the public section is essentially public - statutory.

Many people actually believe that public sector workers have made no contribution to their pension up until recently when this has not been the case.

where a private sector worker will in most cases fund their pension. there is a huge risk with the pensions funds as you have seen over the last few years some pension funds nearrly wiped out, where a PS pension was linked to thier last job and increased as the salary increased. there not even closley comparable.

microbio wrote: »

Also this budget has changed the pensions for new entrants

Great but doesn't affect the current ones.

microbio wrote: »

who have a lesser valued pension scheme, which basicilly ensures their final pension entitlements are based on their average earnings in the public sector, not just over the last two - three years. This means vastly reduced pensions for those who are coming into the sector in the future. This is something I agree with and something that had to be done, and indeed something which should and probably will be rolled out across the sector in the coming years.
There also has been a taxation charge to any pensioner (public - not sure if it applies to private) which is earning more than 12K per annum in pensions.

Even basing it on average earnings is a very solid pension compared to private sector. Where if you're very lucky, you get back what you put in.

microbio wrote: »

I'm not sure exactly what you want to see here ntlbell.

To be honest, the bigger issue (for me) at the moment is the fact that 17.5 billion of the states pension reserve is being "invested" in the banks, instead of into something that will garner a return (such as toll roads or energy generation)
But that seems to be getting lost for some people.


Sorry, I've answered your final question above.
No permanent full time staff were made redundant.

It's not lost on people at all, I think everyone would like to see the pension reservce fund being used for job creation etc rather than go to the banks.

microbio

ntlbell wrote: »

You get a return on it based on a very hansome pension that private sector wokrers have to pay for themselves.


So again, no permanent full time staff lost thier jobs?

I am unclear as to what you are implying here; are you suggesting that I do not fund my own pension? Or that my employer should not make a contribution towards my pension like private sector employers do (in my experience)?
As the pension is funded by taxpayers, I actually fund my pension twice!

I cannot speak for any other body/department, but in my own experience, no permanent staff members were made redundant. Those whose job is now outdated/ have no project to work on because we cannot afford to replace machinery to more modern equipment etc, have been re-deployed and put to use somewhere else. This is due to the moratorium on hiring. We should be happy that less people are joining the dole queue.

ntlbell

microbio wrote: »

I am unclear as to what you are implying here; are you suggesting that I do not fund my own pension? Or that my employer should not make a contribution towards my pension like private sector employers do (in my experience)?
As the pension is funded by taxpayers, I actually fund my pension twice!

I cannot speak for any other body/department, but in my own experience, no permanent staff members were made redundant. Those whose job is now outdated/ have no project to work on because we cannot afford to replace machinery to more modern equipment etc, have been re-deployed and put to use somewhere else. This is due to the moratorium on hiring. We should be happy that less people are joining the dole queue.

I'm happy for them not to join the dole queue as long as they take a large cut in salary. been in the PS or on the dole they're still costing the tax payer.