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Budget changes for transport in 2011

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    #32
    c_donno
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭c_donno


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    When a rail company cannot operate the DART on St. Stephens day because they cannot afford a potential "loss maker" due to decreased subvention, then it really sums up the state of things in CIE land. Think about it lads and be honest with yourselves.

    I wasnt saying that it was going to be a profitable venture running a train to Navan I agree that it would probably be a complete loss maker in fact. Im not under the opinion that its going to be a needed service we allready paid enough money on the M3 and now are paying on the double with a tole for the privilege....

    I also agree with the other statements in relation that things need to change from the top and we need to get a fairer system free from corruption and brown bags and the likes. Hopefully not to far away in the future....

    Im still not sure that the other major capital investments outlined under transport 21 are real flyers either nor do we have the money for them...

    Im sure well have an answer by march though either way.....

    I was just making the point even though it shouldnt be, it is open to a personal (and probable vested interest influence) from the minister..


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    #33
    oharach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭oharach


    keithcan wrote: »
    Maybe I'm wrong on your thinking, but it appears you'd seek to apply a cost-benefit-analysis with population density being a key factor, alongside cost. Where does that leave less populated regions? No public transport provision at all? All investment to greater Dublin area? Bits for other urban centres? There needs also imo to be regional balance and we elect TDs to elect a Govt to take those issues into account. The collective responsibility of Govt should mean no individual Minister gets an unjustified, vanity project through. That system to me is ok. Where it goes to cock is when it's the wrong people and they're retained in power far too long. But that's democracy.

    You're right that a strict cost-benefit analysis will primarily benefit the urban centres, even if social benefits are taken into account.

    For that reason, I have no problem with a residual 'social infrastructure scheme', ensuring that rural communities are not left behind. Quite like a social welfare net, this would mean a basic level of service for everyone, e.g. a safe, good-quality single carriageway N-road to every town over x population, and a reasonable bus service.

    However, almost all of the projects we discuss on this forum, and on the roads forum, are not providing a 'basic' level of service. They are expensive investments in new railways, and new motorways/DCs. This kind of scheme should quite properly be subject to a full cost-benefit analysis.

    As regards regional balance, I have no problem with infrastructure investment in the urban centres, especially Cork, Galway and Limerick. However, it needs to provide for expected future growth; we simply cannot afford more motorways or railways in the vague hope that one day they will pay for themselves.


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    #34
    keithcan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭keithcan


    oharach wrote: »
    As regards regional balance, I have no problem with infrastructure investment in the urban centres, especially Cork, Galway and Limerick. However, it needs to provide for expected future growth; we simply cannot afford more motorways or railways in the vague hope that one day they will pay for themselves.

    I suppose this is what the National Spatial Strategy is about: http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentandHousing/PlanningDevelopment/NationalSpatialStrategy/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,24144,en.pdf Its lack of impact since the original Strategy was published in 2002 is, yet again, down to the political direction we got under mostly FF, this time their councillors. But again, this is what we get through people democratically electing them. Perhaps the update of that Strategy will have a better chance in a changed political climate with greater commitment to intelligent planning, in lieu of developer-led.

    I'd still be emphasising the value of regional development as an important part of (re)growing the national economy. This is a decent easy-to-read document: http://www.wdc.ie/wp-content/uploads/reports-WDC-Policy-Briefing-Why-care-about-regions-July-2010.pdf


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