Can anyone recommend reading material?

Blacey

Dear Atheism and Agnosticism group,

I wonder if I might ask for some help? I want to learn more about atheism. I've been reading Dawkins, but I want to read more, and so I'm asking the community here to recommend some books/blogs/websites for someone new to exploring atheism. Any and all recommendations would be very welcome.

Thanks,

Blacey

fatmammycat

You should read the bible cover to cover. Nothing helps support atheism more.

Dave!

I haven't read all of these yet, but:

Christopher Hitchens - God is Not Great
Sam Harris - Letter to A Christian Nation
Sam Harris - The End of Faith

You should also fire 'Christopher Hitchens' and 'Sam Harris' into YouTube. There's an endless selection of videos to choose from, each more articulate and sexy than the last

Beruthiel

Blacey wrote: »

I've been reading Dawkins

All of them?

Have you read Carl Sagan's Cosmos?

Blacey

fatmammycat wrote: »

You should read the bible cover to cover. Nothing helps support atheism more.

I have! I grew up in a bible-reading family, that's what prompted the interest in atheism.

Blacey

Beruthiel wrote: »

All of them?

Not yet, but working on it. Thanks for the Sagan recommendation.

fatmammycat

Heh, awesome.
I am currently reading Dawkins' The Greatest Show on Earth ( I confess I have little time for him on matters theology, but on biology he's a superb read) You might give that a read if you have time. It's fascinating.

Dades

Blacey wrote: »

Thanks for the Sagan recommendation.

Now read it !

Dave!

Anyone read Sagan's Demon Haunted World? It's apparently 'the' introduction to critical thinking and skepticism... Can't say I've gotten around to reading any Sagan yet :eek:, but that'll be first on the list

Dades

Dave! wrote: »

Anyone read Sagan's Demon Haunted World? It's apparently 'the' introduction to critical thinking and skepticism... Can't say I've gotten around to reading any Sagan yet :eek:, but that'll be first on the list

It's also a great book.

But quite a different book to, say, Cosmos, which is more a "journey" than an analysis.

Take your pick but read 'em both!

robindch

Dave! wrote: »

Anyone read Sagan's Demon Haunted World?

Yep. Recommended.

Blacey

Dades wrote: »

Now read it !

Don't worry, it's on the list!

Zombrex

fatmammycat wrote: »

You should read the bible cover to cover. Nothing helps support atheism more.

Was going to recommend a similar thing, read C.S Lewis' Mere Christianity. If the ridiculous arguments for Christianity in that don't make you an atheist nothing will.

antiskeptic

fatmammycat wrote: »

You should read the bible cover to cover. Nothing helps support atheism more.

True of reading perhaps. Not so with understanding.

Galvasean

Yep, that's right. We don't understand. :rolleyes:

GO_Bear

Lots of books have been said already, so I taught I would offer some video ideas...

Youtube is alive with some fantastic atheist bloggers. Quite a few are the Dawkins Hard science types which are very insightful and fun to watch for instance ;

AronRa's Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism Videos

Thunderf00ts Why do people laugh at creationists Videos

C0nc0rdance's Videos

dprjones videos


While some are Carl Sagan type inspirational Videos;

philhellenes Videos are fantastic , Science saved my soul is wonderful

Then there are the philosophy/psychology types which are some of my personal favorite, for example ;

QualiaSoup and TheraminTrees

They have some fantastic videos on open mindedness and critical thinking.

And finaly we have the funnier ones for example;

NonStampCollector You will often find his cartoon videos posted around here


Those are just some of the more well known , there is many others.

Watch a few and decided if you like em.

magicbastarder

phillip pullman's his dark materials trilogy.

Beruthiel

magicbastarder wrote: »

phillip pullman's his dark materials trilogy.

Be aware that these are fantasy books. Cracking reads though!

Pushtrak

A great book is one by Simon Singh, Big Bang. I've got other books on my to buy list that deal with cosmology but I can't personally recommend anything that I haven't read.

The staples like Christopher Hitchens, Dawkins, et al are well known enough I'll not go into them.

In terms of video stuff, I've made some playlists that are worth a watch. Link in sig.

robindch

Blacey wrote: »

Any and all recommendations would be very welcome.

The following two books are solid academic-level studies of the evolution of religious beliefs and systems, though from different perspectives:

http://www.amazon.com/Darwins-Cathedral-Evolution-Religion-Society/dp/0226901343
http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Trust-Evolutionary-Landscape-Evolution/dp/0195149300

Neither of them are particularly easy reads, but they're enormously entertaining if you're interested in finding out why religion has developed to the insane extent that it has.

On the other end of the intellectual spectrum, there's Ray Comfort and his surreal, and very famous, banana performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4

And anything at all by William Lane Craig (hereinafter called "WC"), though I'd recommend that before settling down to sit through his wordfog, that you place yourself some distance from the screen, and move all throwable objects well out of arm's reach.

fatmammycat

The atheist experience crowd are aweseome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxmy7cUMGE4&feature=related

Antiskeptic- I understand it perfectly.

antiskeptic

fatmammycat wrote: »

Antiskeptic- I understand it perfectly.

You do? Then maybe you'll have a talk to Mark Hamill. His choice of sig. indicates that neither he nor Terry Practhett comprehend the doctrine of the Fall.

Mark Hamills sig wrote:

"One day I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. As I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that's when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Terry Pratchett, edited from "Unseen Academicals"

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the innane hope expressed in the highlighted section. I take it this man is capable of evaluating empirical evidence?

GO_Bear

fatmammycat wrote: »

The atheist experience crowd are aweseome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxmy7cUMGE4&feature=related

Can you say owned LOL xD I realize the person he is speaking two is probably not the most intelligent but its still dam funny +1


And Yes I am also Morally superior than what religions describe as God.

fatmammycat

Glad it tickled you. Matt is an engaging intelligent man, and a pleasure to listen to. He comes from a Baptist background and is without a doubt more au fait with the bible than your average Christian.

Antiskeptic - If you have issue with Mark take it up with him.

fatmammycat

This is one of my favourite Matt talks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDpZxpBSfcc&feature=related

Blacey

Wow, thanks for the quick responses and great list of recommendations - now off to the library

nozzferrahhtoo

Blacey wrote: »

so I'm asking the community here to recommend some books/blogs/websites for someone new to exploring atheism. Any and all recommendations would be very welcome.

Atheism, though of course there are many arguments about this, is essentially a term without content. It is what people call us when they realise that we are “not one of them” as such.

As such there is literature on atheism abound, but more to the point there is literature about the position you are being defined as being outside.

In other words, if I were to recommend literature to you I would suggest a “know thy enemy” approach and really read the material that the religious cite and refer to. From Thomas Aquinas to Blaise Pascal to whatever modern apologists you hear of like the ammoral militant homophobe Dinesh D'Souza.

Unless you really read them, then you only have second hand information about where and why their arguments fail through the likes of Dawkins and Hitchens et al.

However having said all that I would recommend "The Portable Atheist: Essential Readings for the Nonbeliever" which is a collection of writings selected by Christopher Hitchens as this is not only an interesting read but is also full of writers you might not have heard of and might want to read more of what they have written.

Finally the blog Pharyngula is worth following because, although there is nothing _particularly_ special about it, the writer manages to keep very up to date on current events in the world of religion and quite often I hear about things there before I hear them anywhere else. His massive fan base help by keeping him informed of everything they hear and so very little gets by him.

Hope some of this helps.

Blacey

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

As such there is literature on atheism abound, but more to the point there is literature about the position you are being defined as being outside.

In other words, if I were to recommend literature to you I would suggest a “know thy enemy” approach and really read the material that the religious cite and refer to. From Thomas Aquinas to Blaise Pascal to whatever modern apologists you hear of like the ammoral militant homophobe Dinesh D'Souza.

However having said all that I would recommend "The Portable Atheist: Essential Readings for the Nonbeliever" which is a collection of writings selected by Christopher Hitchens as this is not only an interesting read but is also full of writers you might not have heard of and might want to read more of what they have written.

This is very helpful, thank you.

nozzferrahhtoo

Blacey wrote: »

This is very helpful, thank you.

No problem. If the idea of books collecting together shorts works from various writers is interesting to you then I would also add another book which does just that:

http://www.amazon.com/Atheists-Guide-Christmas-Ariane-Sherine/dp/0007322615

If I remember rightly there is something like 42 people who contributed to this book.

strobe

antiskeptic wrote: »

You do? Then maybe you'll have a talk to Mark Hamill. His choice of sig. indicates that neither he nor Terry Practhett comprehend the doctrine of the Fall.

-quote from Unseen Academicals-

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the innane hope expressed in the highlighted section. I take it this man is capable of evaluating empirical evidence?

Or maybe you just don't comprehend the doctrine of Havlock Vetinari?

You see this is the problem with Apratchettists speaking about 'the good books' they take small sections and quotes out and isolate them to criticise the books without any reference to the context they were written in or whether or not the verse was meant to be metaphorical or literal. Or without even the slightest attempt to 'know' and form a personal relationship with the protagonist.

For shame Skep, for shame.

Mark Hamill

strobe wrote: »

Or maybe you just don't comprehend the doctrine of Havlock Vetinari?

You see this is the problem with Apratchettists speaking about 'the good books' they take small sections and quotes out and isolate them to criticise the books without any reference to the context they were written in or whether or not the verse was meant to be metaphorical or literal. Or without even the slightest attempt to 'know' and form a personal relationship with the protagonist.

For shame Skep, for shame.

Or antiskeptic is just ignoring that through an honest understanding of the bible, god comes across as a tyrant and a prick and that maybe we should aspire to be better than that "moral judge" who gladly lets all suffer to prove a point to 2 dead people who were unwittingly tricked into breaking gods rules before they even understood that breaking gods rules was bad.

Blacey

I like this idea of collected essays as I find this type of book to be good for helping me find my way around a topic - thanks for this suggestion also.

Daftendirekt

If you like Dawkins, be sure to check out The Selfish Gene.

Also, I don't know if you're a Derren Brown fan, but his book Tricks of the Mind is a great light read that'll give you some interesting insights into the way the mind works.

And a good one that I don't hear talked about much is Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything. The title sums this one up pretty well. He starts at the beginning of the universe and works his way up from there.

One more (last one, I promise! ) is Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett. It isn't a straightforward read, and he doesn't actually explain consciousness as well as the title would have you believe, but it's still good.

liamw

Galvasean wrote: »

Yep, that's right. We don't understand. :rolleyes:

It will all click as long as you assume it's true before you start reading it. The best way to do this is to tell kids it's true and then tell them to read it. Works almost every time.

robindch

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett. It isn't a straightforward read [...]

I'd have said "almost terminally long-winded" rather than just unstraightforward.

Since reading Consciouss Explained, though, I've found Dennett's Multiple Drafts model convincing, since it proposes consciousness as an emergent property of a combination of simpler subsystems, rather than the deus-ex-machina Cartesian duality.

.

Daftendirekt

robindch wrote: »

I'd have said "almost terminally long-winded" rather than just unstraightforward.

I didn't think it was that convoluted, but he does like his long-winded rambles alright. It's kind of saved by the fact that the subject matter is quite interesting though. Not so much with "Freedom Evolves" .

pH

Other books you might find interesting:

Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon by Daniel Dennett
Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life by Daniel Dennett

These books are more intellectual, but are worth a read.

Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan Barker

A different take, the book is best on the story, weaker on his philosophical arguments, but not bad all the same.

MrPudding

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

No problem. If the idea of books collecting together shorts works from various writers is interesting to you then I would also add another book which does just that:

http://www.amazon.com/Atheists-Guide-Christmas-Ariane-Sherine/dp/0007322615

If I remember rightly there is something like 42 people who contributed to this book.

Along similar lines, The Portable Atheist is a good read. In addition to the many excellent recommendations above I would also recommend "End of Faith" from Sam Harris and "Why I am not a Christian" by Bertrand Russell. Oh, and also Derren Brown's "Confessions of a Conjurer," not strictly atheist reading though he is an atheist, but very entertaining.

MrP

aidan24326

robindch wrote: »

I'd have said "almost terminally long-winded" rather than just unstraightforward.

Have to say I've found Dennet hard to read too. I remember reading his 'Mindstorms' book a while back and I think I gave up about half way through. It was painful stuff. A good one on the subject of consciousness is 'Consciousness - How Matter Becomes Imagination' by Gerald Edelman, though it's written from a neuroscience rather than philosophical perspective.

Dave! wrote: »

Anyone read Sagan's Demon Haunted World? It's apparently 'the' introduction to critical thinking and skepticism... Can't say I've gotten around to reading any Sagan yet :eek:, but that'll be first on the list

A fantastic writer Dave, if you haven't read any of his books you really should. Cosmos, The Demon-Haunted World and Pale Blue Dot are all books of the highest quality.

Galvasean

want my honest recommended reading? This forum. You'll learn a lot just soaking in the atmosphere.

Sure is dark up Dades' ass...

Dades

Galvasean wrote: »

Sure is dark up Dades' ass...

I was wondering what was going on down there. :pac:

Lonesome Boatman

Dunno if it has been suggested already, but Guernica is an amazing book.

http://www.amazon.com/Guernica-Novel-Dave-Boling/dp/0330460668

Product Description
This book presents an extraordinary epic of love, family, and war set in the Basque town of Guernica before, during, and after its destruction by the German Luftwaffe during the Spanish Civil War. In 1935, Miguel Navarro finds himself in conflict with the Spanish Civil Guard and flees the Basque fishing village of Lekeitio to make a new start in Guernica, the centre of Basque culture and tradition. Once there, he finds more than just a new life - he finds someone to live for. Miren Ansotegui is the charismatic and graceful dancer he meets and the two discover a love they believe nothing can destroy ...Rich in the history of the region, the Red Baron, the Luftwaffe and even Picasso make appearances in Guernica as the fate of the Navarro family is traced through the early decades of the twentieth century. 'A heart-rending yet life-affirming story' - "Daily Mail".

Dave!

aidan24326 wrote: »

A fantastic writer Dave, if you haven't read any of his books you really should. Cosmos, The Demon-Haunted World and Pale Blue Dot are all books of the highest quality.

I needed a book for the plane(s ) over the next couple of days, so went in search of some Sagan in the book shop here. The only one I could find was Broca's Brain: Reflections on the Romance of Science. It's small enough, and gets great reviews, so hopefully a good taste of Sagan

Muppet Man

Dawkins God Delusion and Sam Harris End of Faith.

I found End of Faith a better / more interesting read. I think it did a better job of tacking the 3 main religions and highlighting just how nucking futs they really are.

Dawkins lost me in one chapter on memes and I felt he was a bit heavy handed in others.

Muppet Man

amacachi

Would Ben Stiller's stuff be worth reading when ya haven't liked him any time you've seen him speak?

Dave!

amacachi wrote: »

Would Ben Stiller's stuff be worth reading when ya haven't liked him any time you've seen him speak?

Freak

robindch

Muppet Man wrote: »

Dawkins lost me in one chapter on memes

They're worth a second try.

Muppet Man

Thanks Robindch... I was thinking the same myslef... and as soon as I get the damn book from my "friend", I'll probably re-read the whole thing

Jimmy the Wheel

I'd like to recommend any of Robert Anton Wilson's non-fiction.

He could convert even the most hardened athiest to agnosticism.

A little something from him, written in 1980, re: scepticism...

http://books.google.ie/books?id=8RzQPZ9XRi8C&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=Persecution+and+Assassination+of+the+Parapsychologists+as+Performed+by+the+Inmates+of+the+American+Association+for+the+Advancement+of+Science+under+the&source=bl&ots=qLFR5hbRzc&sig=Pb50S91uTx4dTYBREFATWZsuxso&hl=en&ei=62prTdH_NIKDhQf3krWiDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

(the novelist referred to in the first paragraph being himself, of course)

Turtwig

Four pages..Four pages and not a single mention.
http://www.amazon.com/SuperSense-Why-We-Believe-Unbelievable/dp/0061452645


A cracking read filled with excellent anecdotes and references to interesting studies about superstition and sacred values. How it works, what is believed to cause it and since religion is a by product of superstition you will understand religion much better too. Not only that but you'll also understand things to look out for and improve communication when you're talking to people who might be emotionally charged on an issue and why this occurs.

A must read in my view.:)

OT : One really interesting study referenced in that book showed how children 8 years onwards are more predisposed to creationism than children who are younger. This was done comparing Children of fundie backgrounds with children of more secular backgrounds.

AhSureTisGrand

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy anyone? As well as being hilarious it explores ome very interesting philosophical ideas explored.

I hear Nietzsche is good too, although I've never read any of his work