John Lennon

KindOfIrish

30 years ago on 8th December 1980 John Lennon was killed. I've just listened few his songs, "Imagine", "Woman". He is probably the greatest musician of 20th century, not counting classical music, as it completely different matter.

Nailz

Definitely not the greatest non-classical musician of the 20th century, I can name dozens of better musicians off the top of my head, but he did make some good music. RIP.

Also, RIP Dimebag Darrell.

KeanSeenan

I don't think he really wanted to be seen as a good musician, none of The Beatles could read music.I think he's one of the greatest musicians in terms of writing songs, if you're one to judge it on virtuosity and that, then he obviously isn't.But if you think being a good musician is just being able to play really complicated stuff quickly, then, you've missed the point.Rest in Peace Mr.Lennon.

Rigsby

I think this thread is heading for 200 posts with the theme "Lennon was better than McCarthney... McCarthney was better than Lennon". :rolleyes:

Nailz

It's not even the 8th anymore and we have 5 posts, long way away for 200 on any topic now...

mikom

KindOfIrish wrote: »

I've just listened few his songs, "Imagine", "Woman".

Are these new ones?

Nailz

mikom wrote: »

Are these new ones?

Eh? What?

seachto7

It's all subjective innit...

I don't think he was the greatest anything really, but that's just my opinion...

Carl.Gustav

saw a funny thread on this in another forum

imagine no possessions - have millions of dollars worth of possessions

etc

aDeener

Nailz wrote: »

Definitely not the greatest non-classical musician of the 20th century, I can name dozens of better musicians off the top of my head, but he did make some good music. RIP.

Also, RIP Dimebag Darrell.

ah yes now there is the greatest non-classical musician of the 20th century

KeanSeenan

aDeener wrote: »

ah yes now there is the greatest non-classical musician of the 20th century

You've got to be joking me.

Nailz

Can you name many better than him?

Stompbox

Nailz wrote: »

Can you name many better than him?

Yes I can. John Lennon for one.

Stompbox

KeanSeenan wrote: »

But if you think being a good musician is just being able to play really complicated stuff quickly, then, you've missed the point.

And this is the reason why Lennon is better.

Lennon went from 'Please Please Me' to 'Ticket To Ride' to 'In My Life' to 'Tomorrow Never Knows' to 'A Day In The Life' to 'Happiness Is A Warm Gun' to 'Across The Universe' within the space of six years. Six years.

Nailz

Ha! It's all a matter of opinion and all with who's music appeals more to whoever, but there is no doubt, and it's impossible to deny it, who's musical ability was better - and that's Dimebag.

KeanSeenan

Nailz wrote: »

Ha! It's all a matter of opinion and all with who's music appeals more to whoever, but there is no doubt, and it's impossible to deny it, who's musical ability was better - and that's Dimebag.

Musical ability?I always think when people get into talking about musical ability it's just a defense for poor songwriting...Plus what's to say musicians aren't technically good because they don't masturbate a guitar at every chance?They actually understand music and that the notes you play are as important as those you don't.I would say a musician with better ability would know the value of notes, use them when needed rather than shoe horning aload of atonal 'angry' soloing, that can't even properly convey that emotion, into a song.
Also better non-classical musician
Better non-classical musicians= Jim O'Rourke(case in point, during his latest album he took a good few months out to learn how to play some brass albums just so he could be the only person involved in his album, aside from playing everything else), Owen Pallet(Very adaptable and diverse songwriting and brilliant technical ability),Johnny Greenwood, Django Reinhardt(Two fingers and still one of the most revered Jazz guitarists ever)..actually don't get me started about Jazz musicians(but yeah Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa).I think Spencer Krug is quite a good musician also.Annie Clarke is a really good modern guitarist(and is pretty).Joanna Newsom.Jimi Hendrix.If you don't get it by now, you never will.

Nailz

KeanSeenan wrote: »

Musical ability?I always think when people get into talking about musical ability it's just a defense for poor songwriting...Plus what's to say musicians aren't technically good because they don't masturbate a guitar at every chance?They actually understand music and that the notes you play are as important as those you don't.I would say a musician with better ability would know the value of notes, use them when needed rather than shoe horning aload of atonal 'angry' soloing, that can't even properly convey that emotion, into a song.

I speak on both subjects to be honest. Ability and song writing, although I only said that who's music you prefer listing to is only your opinion, so I'll express mine for a while. Much prefer Darrell's stuff to Lennon's, haven't heard a bad note from him on any of his music, even pre-1989 stuff, which is hardly know. And you are pretty much sprouting the same argument I use a lot - the music itself is more important than the music ability. I say the same thing about the likes of Dream Theater and Steve Vai, beautiful musicians as far as technical ability goes, except Dream Theater are keen on having a **** session in there songs than anything else, and for how good Steve Vai is, he can't write music for ****.

Dimebag on the other hand has the exceptional ability to write some of my favourite music, and meaningful music to me and a lot of others, while still expressing amazing technique over it. So I doubt you've either listened to a lot of Dimebag's work, or either you don't understand it, going by how you describe it, and the emotional nature of it, not absolutely everything PanterA have writen is put down to anger or hate or whatever the heck you think it is, and it's totally clean, no string bashing on the solo, it's done with total blues influence and rockability.

As far as Lennon is concerned, was always a fan, in the latter stages with the Beatles he wrote his best stuff, Paul couldn't even compare (never like Paul's songs though), but John's songs then and his early solo career mean nothing to me in comparison to PanterA's music, nor has his musical ability ever caught my attention, not amazing may I point out. The early Beatles were pretty crap to me, but that's my opinion.

KeanSeenan wrote: »

Also better non-classical musician
Better non-classical musicians= Jim O'Rourke(case in point, during his latest album he took a good few months out to learn how to play some brass albums just so he could be the only person involved in his album, aside from playing everything else), Owen Pallet(Very adaptable and diverse songwriting and brilliant technical ability),Johnny Greenwood, Django Reinhardt(Two fingers and still one of the most revered Jazz guitarists ever)..actually don't get me started about Jazz musicians(but yeah Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa).I think Spencer Krug is quite a good musician also.Annie Clarke is a really good modern guitarist(and is pretty).Joanna Newsom.Jimi Hendrix.If you don't get it by now, you never will.

Bit of a fan of Jim O'Rourke's, don't know too much past only a few collaborations and his work with Sonic Youth and Wilco. Owen Pallett, in certain areas I've found to be very interesting, as experimental music is a huge part of my musical collection, plus I write a lot myself, but in other places also very boring, I like my soundtrack music to veer away from the bog standard stuff, ex-housemate was a big fan through Final Fantasy, had all his scores on harddrive, never liked that aspect of his work - good musician though. Johnny Greenwood, good musician, but very boring.

Huge Jazz fan here, especially Jazz Drummers, so you got no complaints in naming Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa, also, I've heard lots of Reinhardt's old recordings, and was given a book from a friend of mine on him, and amazing story, quite astounding to be honest. Have yet to get into St. Vincent, only got her music a couple of weeks ago, listened to it twice or three times, so far it does nothing for me. Joanna Newsom is very good, saw her in the GCT and was impressed, as I expected to be. Well Hendrix is Hendrix, no complaints, wasn't very good when playing live though, that was one criticism I always had of Jimi.

I'll list few of my favourite non-Classical musicians, although you could complain some are classical, but only to a degree.

John Zorn
Trey Spruance
Philip Glass
Steve M. Reich
John Coltrane
Mikael Åkerfeldt
Frank Zappa
Mike Patton
Richard D. James
David Axelrod
Trey Azagtoth
Demetrios Stratos
Yamataka Eye

Wouldn't be up there with my favourites, but Brian Eno is certainly worth a mention.

KeanSeenan

Jim O'Rourke is really great, he has three great albums, then he sort of went into hiding in Japan(only to come out to release Burt Bacarach cover albums and assist with School of Rock)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq64j7XcmR4

Yeah Glass would've been the first I would've questioned to being non-classical, but as a non-classical musician he still deserves to be there.

I can see some of Pallet's being boring, I haven't found any of his records to be brilliant, but I admire his technologocial skill(loops and stuff) as much as musicianship(he's obviously very talented)
St.Vincet writes some great songs, in her second album I just love how it sounds texturaly, she's a fan of big filthy distortion next to light woodwind.
And No, I'm not majorly familiar with Pantera because as I've said, I don't like them, but I know it's not down to 'not understanding it', I listen to a lot of, seemingly, innaccesible music so I don't think I'm not open to understanding whatever.
Plus, I find that defence sort of arbitrary, you could apply it to anything.Fair enough, people like whatever they want for whatever reasons, but that doesn't mean there isn't alot of ****e out there, **** that I don't think is misunderstood. I think not understanding music comes down to classical music, more specifically 20th century classical music, that's the only place where that defence has any warrant. But, art is subjective so maybe there is something I'm not seeing...or maybe I've seen it already and it doesn't interest me or I've grown to look for better things in music.

Cavehill Red

Hard to beat this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moCf_pghM-U