So who will you be voting for?

10green bottles

pancake_tuesday wrote: »

What a strenuous and well debated response 10green bottles. Your posts are laughable based on personal retorts and insults without any constructive criticism. I really do pitty these idealist youths with good intentions who are backed by oul 'cronies', like yourself.

Im just a kid who should better.

Onesimus

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

Onesimus

I don't agree with your interpretation of 10greenbottles politics.

I have referred several times to the World Socialist Web Site
www.wsws.org , as the political way forward.
('communist muck' is what 10greenbottles calls such. So we know where he stands)

There is a mortal danger facing us all because of the world economic crisis in the capitalist economy.

It is incumbent on anyone who believes in the need for the 'ordinary people' to move to defend themselves from this danger to first state that all the so-called defenders or parties of the people are actually very intimately tied into the system.

The capitalist ruling class do not rule in the end with their weapons but with the chains they place in the minds of the working class. Bobby Sands was only half right when he said they could not imprison an idea.

The content of the idea itself is everything. Afterall, the Hunger Strikers lives were lost. Despite the selfless bravery of these men the struggle for an end to oppression is still not won.

The idea that political parties put to working people is everything.
Are we now moving to a fight to the death with the ruling class? Or are SF and Labour's honeyed words true?

If capitalism truly is in crisis then the 'leadership' of SF, Labour, the unions is a trap. They are lying. Out of petty personal ambition; and out of fear and hatred for the independent revoloutionary movement of the working class.

Merv you will have to elaborate on the last part of your post there.

First you say that there is a crisis in the capitalist economy and then you say '' if captialism truly is in crisis'' which leads me to believe your not entirely sure what your on about and are only assuming things in particular. Your posts sound like conspiracy theories or something.

anyways...elaborate on the first sentence of your last paragraph.

Mervyn Crawford

Oneimus

I'm not engaging in wordplay or hair splitting. I believe that in the absence of any serious political leadership to the fore of the world's working class the level of political discussion is of a dreadfully low level.

The various forums and blogs available point up to this. The 'game' is to engage in point-scoring. The class conscious on the right are more than happy to perpetrate such cynicism. Better to maintain the status quo and stifle the growth of serious debate that actually addresses the real world.

The reactionaries can pollute the atmosphere with their effluent all day long.

But you have to ask yourself if you are seriously interested in developing a political way forward?

phantom_lord

I'm seriously interested in developing a political way forward, just not a communist one.

Onesimus

I'm interested in a political way forward also, just not a communist, socialist or capitalist one.

Anyway why are we talking about that?

Back to voting for parties. I'm going Green. The caliber of the Candidates are too good to overlook and are been ignored due to the peoples desire to hear men put across emtionally driven behaviour.

The country as I said before needs amongst other talents a cool, calm, ( preferably non-alcoholic ), financial head with a plan to get this country up and running and back on its shamrockin feet. For me that is Mr.Green party.

Sinn fein Labour and whatever else are too liberal to hand even your Holy communion money to. They know how to crack a joke and sling a few insults whilst seducing the people into a false sense of security, but they can not like the conservatives, handle money. In saying that not all conservatives as we have seen in the past have been honest with money but that just proves that they know how to use it cleverly. And ...have done so to their benefit as opposed to the peoples.

I'm all for the Greens. I'm confident that the young and vibrant greens will use the money to benefit this country. They are not like the old conservatives/liberals who, because they are old, begin to forget about the people of Ireland and not care. They only begin to look forward to their comfortable pension and do anything to make money along the way.

The young greens however have a job to hold onto and a pension to secure. They are family men and women. They retain a serious attitude to succeeding and looking after the people of Ireland. It is unfortunate that nobody is for them. The people are going to wake up with yet another hangover if they vote for SF FG and Labour who are only shouting nonsense ( btw the caliber of their candidates is crap too. )

The pushing of FG, SF and Labour on the tele with the revolutionary shouting tactics is obviously working and leading the people of Ireland down the alley of delusion to rob their hearts and minds of any last few euros and dignity that is still there.

They have not got a plan, they have a desperate desire to hold onto their job by pushing the emotionally driven nonsense that they do. The Greens do have a plan. But are we listening to them? do we care? No! we should try though, because they seriously care about us.

Mervyn who do you think is the best party to go for and why?

Wolfe Tone

The greens are in govt atm, are you happy with their performance?

SDTimeout

First time voting .

I fear Sinn Fein will do well, I'm not an impressionable youth. I was one of the ones who study up and challenged " mo chara " Tomas Sharkey over a year and a half ago. When he made an audacious claim at a youth speak out that the government had lost half of the national reserve in African diamond minds. He must have Jim Corr write his stuff

FF have two potential good people in Declan Breathnach and Reilly. Sadly their name won't get them anywhere. People will use the fact they are FF against them.

Paddy Malone nor Jim Darcy will win a seat for FG. It is my opinion both wouldn't have what it takes to win a seat. Darcy was touted at the last one but that was a bit of a train wreck. There are rumblings of shock running people for FG. We shall wait and see

I do hope Mark Deary gets in. I may consider voting for him

Perhaps the majority are keeping their silence, as a young person who has been brought up around politics it really does scare me that so many people in this thread are pro Sinn Fein. You all keep harping on about emigration and the economy. I'm fairly sure I'll be out of the country quicker if SF get into government than if the " IMF " Take over ( that won't happen either )

geespot

i think the greens are good...........for nothing. tell us what they stand for what or thier policies

SDTimeout

You can vote for a person...because of the person you know.

That would be why I'm going to vote for Mark. That and I'm probably going to his establishment in 45 minutes to see Flapes.

Onesimus

SDTimeout wrote: »

You can vote for a person...because of the person you know.

That would be why I'm going to vote for Mark. That and I'm probably going to his establishment in 45 minutes to see Flapes.

SDtimeout. I will be voting for Mark. Not for the reason of knowing him, ( even though I do ) but for the caliber and talents he has to bring this town and country into shape.

All too often people have the wrong idea by just voting for their ''mates'' that often retains the sentimental attitude as opposed to the idea of voting them in on their talent and propositions.

This is another reason why the country is in a mess.

Mark certainly has the financial head on him as do the other greens. Just what the town needs...someone who can handle money amongst other talents.

Any other politician worth his coin would discourage the thought of voting for them just because you ''know'' them. It wouldnt be very flattering either considering the work they put in to deliver a good plan for the regional area and country.

Geespot, get off your lazy dundalk whinging and moaning backside and go find out what it is they have on offer. But seeing as you have already made your mind up upon the matter by uncharitably tagging them as ''good for nothing'' why bother I suppose?:rolleyes::P

TommyT

Another vote for Mark. I think he could buck the national trend (re the Greens) and do well. If elected I wonder will he be able to get some grit on our road during the winter, it would make his journey home from the Dail a lot easier.

10green bottles

Deary nor the Greens have not a notion in their heads about finances,ffs lads and lassies,they are a junior partner in the current goverment and have a lot of clout.

What have they done???

SFA

They have only used their "CLOUT" to prolong the dead duck goverment that is riding us to the last ranch,and supported the crazy economic policies of FF, that have us living with the IMF.

If Deary wins in Louth/E.Meath i will declare myself a dead duck.

The Green patry in Ireland are not the same and do not have the same leftist/working class ideas or policies of their counterparts from Germany/Holland or France etc..

In Ireland,Green politics are on a middle/upper class tier.

They can ride all the eco bikes they want,but we know the bike they have ridden the past few years.

They will recieve the vote they deserve, and could all be but wiped out in the 2011 election.

Good Riddance to bad rubbish.

phantom_lord

didn't realise you were all such a socialist bunch on this forum.

Onesimus

Onesimus wrote: »

SDtimeout. I will be voting for Mark. Not for the reason of knowing him, ( even though I do ) but for the caliber and talents he has to bring this town and country into shape.

All too often people have the wrong idea by just voting for their ''mates'' that often retains the sentimental attitude as opposed to the idea of voting them in on their talent and propositions.

This is another reason why the country is in a mess.

Mark certainly has the financial head on him as do the other greens. Just what the town needs...someone who can handle money amongst other talents.

Any other politician worth his coin would discourage the thought of voting for them just because you ''know'' them. It wouldnt be very flattering either considering the work they put in to deliver a good plan for the regional area and country.

Geespot, get off your lazy dundalk whinging and moaning backside and go find out what it is they have on offer. But seeing as you have already made your mind up upon the matter by uncharitably tagging them as ''good for nothing'' why bother I suppose?:rolleyes::P

I think you may be confusing general financial shrewdness with a knowledge of economics. Being 'good with money' isn't really a good indicator of how well a politician would be able to handle state finances.

We do not need accountants in government, as you have stated. Messrs Ahern and McCreevy were previously in that line of work, need I remind you?

not1but4

Not sure what to think of this

FG hoping to score seat with football manager Fitzpatrick
FINE Gael is trying to get Louth gaelic football manager Peter Fitzpatrick to run in the 2011 General Election.

Mr Fitzpatrick guided the county to the Leinster football final last year, where the Wee County lost out after an immensely controversial last- minute goal by Meath.

Following Justice Minister Dermot Ahern's announcement of his retirement, all parties see a massive gap at the northern end of the county in Dundalk.

'Dragons' Den' TV star and businessman Sean Gallagher turned down Fianna Fail's approaches to be Mr Ahern's replacement in recent years.

Sensing a chance to take a second seat in Louth following Mr Ahern's retirement, Fine Gael went hunting for a celebrity candidate as Fine Gael MEP Mairead McGuinness will not be coming back from Europe.


Approached

Mr Fitzpatrick was approached by senior Fine Gael figures last week about running for the party and joining education spokesman Fergus O'Dowd on the ticket.

The 48-year-old businessman is based in Dundalk and runs a number of electrical shops.

The party is expecting to get a response from Mr Fitzpatrick early in the New Year.

"He was approached over the last few days. He'd be a Fine Gael supporter," a senior source said.

Mr Fitzpatrick is a friend of Fine Gael councillor Jim D'Arcy and would have attended party functions in the past. Mr D'Arcy and fellow councillor Colm Markey are also on the party's shortlist of candidates -- if it fails to attract a high-profile name.

Mr Fitzpatrick wouldn't necessarily have to give up his job as Louth county manager if he was elected as a TD.

At the last general election, then Mayo football manager, John O'Mahony, was elected as a TD for the party and continued as manager for the following three seasons.

In his first season in charge of Louth, Mr Fitzpatrick guided the county to three finals -- the O'Byrne Cup, the Leinster Senior and the Leinster Junior, winning the latter.

Louth were just seconds away from their first Leinster senior football title since 1957 in Croke Park back in July, when Meath scrambled home a contentious winning goal in the fourth minute of stoppage time to beat their local rivals by 1-12 to 1-10.

The infamous goal was one of the main talking points of the GAA season. Mr Fitzpatrick had to attempt to protect the referee from assaults from irate Louth fans who invaded the pitch after the game.

He is seeking to strengthen his squad for next year and has targeted promotion to Division Two, saying anything less will be a failure.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fg-hoping-to-score-seat-with-football-manager-fitzpatrick-2467213.html

amacachi

Seriously? People are thinking of voting for Deery? Fcuk this country.

geespot

[QUOTE=Onesimus;69644

Geespot, get off your lazy dundalk whinging and moaning backside and go find out what it is they have on offer. But seeing as you have already made your mind up upon the matter by uncharitably tagging them as ''good for nothing'' why bother I suppose?:rolleyes::P[/QUOTE]
surely any politican or party worth voting for would make ther policies known unless they dont come up to scratch

TommyT

10green bottles wrote: »

Deary nor the Greens have not a notion in their heads about finances,ffs lads and lassies,they are a junior partner in the current goverment and have a lot of clout.

What have they done???

Does anyone in this country have a clue about finance? FF have shown us that they dont, but where was the opposition over the last decade. Did anyone hear the FG leadership shout stop, that we were p*ssing the future of this country down the drain? The other parties are as bad and are only sabre rattling now because of the upcoming election.
Sinn Fein probably had the most sensible economic policy of them all. Rob the banks, deny it was them and ride out the storm, but in the grand scheme of things they only got loose change from the Northern Bank.
I think people will vote, not for the candidate or the best policies, but as a protest at the current government. While that is understandable, I honestly dont believe that FG/Lab have any idea of how to get us out of this mess. In fact does anyone?

TommyT

Tonights Prime Time is well worth a watch on the RTE player if anyone has missed it. Just catching the end of it now but it shows just how clueless this country really is.

Mervyn Crawford

".....The spending cuts will compound the economic crisis, deepening social misery, as the Northern Irish economy depends on public spending for 62.6 percent of its total output as compared to 39.8 percent for the rest of the UK. Further contraction will result from the financial crisis in the Republic of Ireland, the destination for 28 percent of the north’s exports.
Despite over a month’s delay in the issuing of the draft budget, which saw Sinn Fein and the DUP unable to reach an agreement, no fundamental disagreement over the imposition of the cuts ever emerged. Not one minister in the executive voted against the budget, underscoring the consensus across all factions of the political elite that the working class, unemployed and the impoverished must be made to pay for the costs of the financial crisis.
Announcing the budget to the Stormont Assembly, Finance Minister Sammy Wilson hailed the deal as a vindication of the power-sharing agreement. He said, “We have proved that we can take difficult decisions … proved that we can work together for the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland.”
Without blushing, he referred to the budget as a “good Christmas present for the people of Northern Ireland”.
The budget has exposed the fundamental class character of the power-sharing arrangements set out in the 1998 Good Friday Agreement. Far from representing a democratic resolution to hostilities, the agreement between nationalists and loyalists resulted from the drive of US and British imperialism to end military conflict and create a more favourable destination for international finance capital, while still enshrining sectarian divisions as an indispensable tool for the control of the working class.
A clear indication of those who are the real beneficiaries of the draft budget is given by the praise the government has received from big business. The head of Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce, Francis Martin of the Institute of Directors in Northern Ireland, commended the budget as a “first step” in “rebalancing” the economy in line with interests of the private sector. He added that “public sector salaries have been too high” and have acted as a disincentive to the private sector.
Faced with deepening economic crisis in Northern Ireland, the corporate and financial elite and their political representatives in Stormont, supported by Westminster, are gearing up to drive through a more profound restructuring of social relations via the transformation of the region into a low-corporation tax enterprise zone.
Sinn Fein and the DUP are currently in talks with the UK government, which is preparing a paper on Northern Ireland to address the “rebalancing of the economy towards higher value added private sector activity… to drive export-led economic growth.” "

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/dec2010/irel-d22.shtml

Onesimus

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

".....The spending cuts will compound the economic crisis, deepening social misery, as the Northern Irish economy depends on public spending for 62.6 percent of its total output as compared to 39.8 percent for the rest of the UK. Further contraction will result from the financial crisis in the Republic of Ireland, the destination for 28 percent of the north’s exports.
Despite over a month’s delay in the issuing of the draft budget, which saw Sinn Fein and the DUP unable to reach an agreement, no fundamental disagreement over the imposition of the cuts ever emerged. Not one minister in the executive voted against the budget, underscoring the consensus across all factions of the political elite that the working class, unemployed and the impoverished must be made to pay for the costs of the financial crisis.
Announcing the budget to the Stormont Assembly, Finance Minister Sammy Wilson hailed the deal as a vindication of the power-sharing agreement. He said, “We have proved that we can take difficult decisions … proved that we can work together for the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland.”
Without blushing, he referred to the budget as a “good Christmas present for the people of Northern Ireland”.
The budget has exposed the fundamental class character of the power-sharing arrangements set out in the 1998 Good Friday Agreement. Far from representing a democratic resolution to hostilities, the agreement between nationalists and loyalists resulted from the drive of US and British imperialism to end military conflict and create a more favourable destination for international finance capital, while still enshrining sectarian divisions as an indispensable tool for the control of the working class.
A clear indication of those who are the real beneficiaries of the draft budget is given by the praise the government has received from big business. The head of Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce, Francis Martin of the Institute of Directors in Northern Ireland, commended the budget as a “first step” in “rebalancing” the economy in line with interests of the private sector. He added that “public sector salaries have been too high” and have acted as a disincentive to the private sector.
Faced with deepening economic crisis in Northern Ireland, the corporate and financial elite and their political representatives in Stormont, supported by Westminster, are gearing up to drive through a more profound restructuring of social relations via the transformation of the region into a low-corporation tax enterprise zone.
Sinn Fein and the DUP are currently in talks with the UK government, which is preparing a paper on Northern Ireland to address the “rebalancing of the economy towards higher value added private sector activity… to drive export-led economic growth.” "

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/dec2010/irel-d22.shtml

Mervyn, who do you think we should vote for then?

Onesimus

geespot wrote: »

surely any politican or party worth voting for would make ther policies known unless they dont come up to scratch

Of course they make it known. But I'm not a member of the green party and refuse to feed the subborn child who has a duty to go out there also and study the subject of who we should vote for, or what their policies are. It is a two way street in which both the politicians and citizens meet.

Lazy attitudes such as your own are the reason why this country is in a mess. The layed back Irish man eh? a disease this country suffers from.

Atomic Pineapple

Onesimus wrote: »

Criticism is not an argument as to why the Greens would not be able to run this country Financially. Stone throwing such as calling them ''hippies in suits'' does not exactly demonstrate a good reason not to vote for them.

Yet again could we conclude that Draffodox is just another example of someone who does not study politics? Or on the other hand... will he be evidence of yet another intellectually wise dkit being who breaks his back to google a good answer and fool us all into the idea that he does? because he has not a clue what to say in reply?:P

*munching on an organic carrot*:pac:

The greens single handedly destroyed one of the biggest incomes for the government with their new emissions based VRT and taxation, hardly a good argument for them to be financially running our country.

geespot

Onesimus wrote: »

Of course they make it known. But I'm not a member of the green party and refuse to feed the subborn child who has a duty to go out there also and study the subject of who we should vote for, or what their policies are. It is a two way street in which both the politicians and citizens meet.

Lazy attitudes such as your own are the reason why this country is in a mess. The layed back Irish man eh? a disease this country suffers from.

the way i see it is simple the greens dont actually have any policies with the exception of putting up the cost of driving to and from work. they proved while in goverment that any other stated policies where only aspirations and not of any significance. they would like to bring ireland back into the stone ages. the first thing we need to do in this country is to get cheap sustainable electricity put simply we need nuclear power. globaly buisness needs to fight the bull**** being spun about global warming its a billion pound industry where scientist or putting the money up in smoke. sure people should keep the enviroment nice but it also has to be used to sustain the population not be kept as a wee organic farm for the t1ts in the greens to impress their dinner guests

Onesimus

geespot wrote: »

the way i see it is simple the greens dont actually have any policies with the exception of putting up the cost of driving to and from work. they proved while in goverment that any other stated policies where only aspirations and not of any significance. they would like to bring ireland back into the stone ages. the first thing we need to do in this country is to get cheap sustainable electricity put simply we need nuclear power. globaly buisness needs to fight the bull**** being spun about global warming its a billion pound industry where scientist or putting the money up in smoke. sure people should keep the enviroment nice but it also has to be used to sustain the population not be kept as a wee organic farm for the t1ts in the greens to impress their dinner guests

@draff: you will have to provide me evidence to sustain your claim because I've already in previous posts proved that to be a falsity. The post I posted reverses that claim completely not to mention the money they saved through wind energy happens to be one of their top ten acheivements of 2010

@Geesoap: I've already proved that wind energy has not cost the country anything in previous posts. Stone ages? tell me...was there any global warming when we were not using nuclear power? No! Science has proven that global warming is a fact. Even if the cost of wind turbines were proven to be more cost effective and damaging to the country on a financial scale, I think I'd rather spend that extra cash to at least have the luxury of knowing my kids have a future in this world and those after them.

The Greens are not out to impress their dinner guests and play with any unproven theoretical toys they own. They are out there to better the world and save it from those who blindly damage it so they can impress their own dinner guests with how much money they saved without a care for the the next generation after them.

The Greens dont want to take us back to the stone ages, they want us to progress in health and quality of life whilst using energy in a safe manner. By the way In using the greens method of energy saving I actually save money and manage to increase my income.

geespot

where to start wind energy is a big load of bolok the cost of producing shipping and mantaining these far out weigh any energy they produce now that is a fact where as global warming the fact is if you belive that you like the greens live in cuukoo land fact so much so that they have started calling it climate change its time to pull the plug on these freaks and there friends in the green party

geespot

oh and strange for somebody whos not from the green party that i heard you where that far up mark deareys hole you where looking out his bellybutton

Onesimus

Geesoap, your last two posts ( one of gibberish and the other of an uncharitable and venting kind ) only furthermore prove that you havnt a hope in this thread and have failed to persuade me with such bad ( and uncharitable ) arguments.

As a working class fella of Dundalk I'll be putting stereotypes and false predjudices against conservatives aside and will be voting for the greens. Not for Sinn fein and their emotional drivel and shouting which does not persuade me of their greatness to lead this country at all.

Wolfe Tone

Working class voting for the greens.



Oh dear.

geespot

oneminus i would hate to try and persuade you of anything anybody who believes what the greens tell them is beyond help the good news is most or either too young or incapable of making there way to a polling booth to vote. so expect to see at least four times as many shinners as greens in the next dail