Social Welfare Measures Could Be Rejected

melekalikimaka

tudlytops wrote: »

I agree we can't give what we don't have, but surely they could stop being hit in every budget and more services should be provided to help them, those who can, to get a job, even if it were for just a few hours a week.
.

i'm not for once second saying i think any of this is a good thing for these people, i think its horrible the least off are suffering. but i just get annoyed when people dont look outside their own little world about what this budget needs to do and how its madness to think anyone is going to get away unaffected by this.

chucken1

turbobaby wrote: »

Well you are on the internet at half one on a Thursday night.

Cancel your internet connection, sell your computer, for a start.

People need to dig in.

OK..cop on right now! Show me please some reason for this attack.

tudlytops

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i'm not for once second saying i think any of this is a good thing for these people, i think its horrible the least off are suffering. but i just get annoyed when people dont look outside their own little world about what this budget needs to do and how its madness to think anyone is going to get away unaffected by this.

I agree, but they are hit every budget and even when things were good, they were given the some as unemplyed people + the ESB and phone allowences, really do we think it is OK for people that really can't work to be poor all their life's?

Yes they can't work and not paying taxes, but that can happen to anyone any day, an accident, an illness, etc... is it fair to have them counting penny from that day on.

And when the weather is getting worse we take the "heating allowance" away!!!!

how are you?

michael noonan tore lenihan a new one on prime time last night...

he called lenihan an illusionist and id have to agree...

hes barrrister-highky skilled at talking ****e,and he has got the sympathy of a large section of the irish public for at least a year.he has made incredibly misjudged decions for too long

the country needs a change,we as a people are far to sinical and lazy to create real change....

we all know deep inside that we can make this country into something special and unique that every country can be proud.we need to lead the way..

I think this because we are IRISH,we are a unique race that is already loved already around the world because of our culture, hard work and most importantly our sense of GOOD

brianthebard

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i believe if fair cuts, i feel everyone should pay take the same cut, the rich and the poor. it may not have worked out this way in the budget, but i sure as hell know 6 billion has now been saved, something we promised we would do to secure our loan from europe, and i sure as hell know people who dodged it this year will get hit next year, or the year after.

- this has been a party broadcast paid for by the FF party.

sandmanporto

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i believe if fair cuts, i feel everyone should pay take the same cut, the rich and the poor. it may not have worked out this way in the budget, but i sure as hell know 6 billion has now been saved, something we promised we would do to secure our loan from europe, and i sure as hell know people who dodged it this year will get hit next year, or the year after.

wait a minute here!
we are not a successful nation now ok!
what you're saying is, that the rich who can afford to give more than the poor, should pay the same as the poor! quite frankly in my book thats not equality!
Do you know why the French Revolution took place?
Are you from a well to do family or just have a good job?
Personally I had a good job and am now umemployed. Believe me, I know how hard it is! Lets get our stories straight! Equality in proportion!

Einhard

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i believe if fair cuts, i feel everyone should pay take the same cut,

That's not fair though.

sandmanporto

turbobaby wrote: »

Ah sure they're blind, let's give them more money on top of the extras they've got over the last few years...

Do you anything about medicine? did you know type 2 diabetes if more hereditary than type 1.. im sure, given the statistics of Ireland that you may have a relative with type 2 diabetes. type 2 diabetes can cause blindness!
You may develop this condition in later life. Lets see your view then!

Your attitude is quite frankly disgusting! its almost like Hitlers view(when i say that, I mean your total contempt for the blind)! I dont think you'd be too popular in your local if your IP un masked your identity for that comment!
Blind people cant be left rot to die alone, the benefits they got WERE TO MAKE THEIR LIFE BEARABLE! remember, you may go blind!

chucken1

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i'm not for once second saying i think any of this is a good thing for these people, i think its horrible the least off are suffering. but i just get annoyed when people dont look outside their own little world about what this budget needs to do and how its madness to think anyone is going to get away unaffected by this.

And if you were any use As a MOD,you'd have seen what the THREAD was! This thread turned into a social welfare bashing..yet again.

elspecia

social welfare cuts not enough in my opinion, the unemployment benefit(dole) was only cut by €8 how about cutting it by €20, because i think alot of ppl who will be getting minimum wage from Friday will not be getting as much as the boys on the dole

StupidLikeAFox

How do blind people vote?

chucken1

sandmanporto wrote: »

wait a minute here!
we are not a successful nation now ok!
what you're saying is, that the rich who can afford to give more than the poor, should pay the same as the poor! quite frankly in my book thats not equality!
Do you know why the French Revolution took place?
Are you from a well to do family or just have a good job?
Personally I had a good job and am now umemployed. Believe me, I know how hard it is! Lets get our stories straight! Equality in proportion!

Mods a student..from Foxrock!!

maxxie

The problem is the elite have been relatively protected as expected! People could expect cuts but this huge debt does not belong to many of the ordinary citizens!

chucken1

ColHol wrote: »

How do blind people vote?

Have a read of this..then think about 'our democracy'


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0519/1224270654932.html

bernyh

elspecia wrote: »

social welfare cuts not enough in my opinion, the unemployment benefit(dole) was only cut by €8 how about cutting it by €20, because i think alot of ppl who will be getting minimum wage from Friday will not be getting as much as the boys on the dole

I'm not a political person, but I just can't understand how bringing the lowest wage available, closer to the dole can be beneficial to anybody, I personally feel that it would make it less appealing to people to take up a minimum wage job... surely factoring in time and effort the dole would be almost appealling....

Biggins

Cavehill Red wrote: »

We can keep laying boots into each other and ignoring the elephant in the living room. That's what they want us to do. Old v young, employed v unemployed, public sector v private. On and on it goes.
Meanwhile, as we're arguing over scraps off our own table, the IMF and the EU are robbing our wealth now and far into the future to bail out the banks.
The WHOLE budget needs to be rejected, and the bank guarantee reneged on.
Then we can start again without this €100 billion rock of debt which we never accrued hanging around our neck.

Exactly. Thats the ball game summed up on one post.
The sheep of this nation however are still busy infighting on each other, blaming one another, to kop such things though!

Mr Benevolent

Ridiculous. I'm on the dole and I support all of the SW reductions. In fact I'm disappointed that they weren't more drastic.

bernyh

seriously, I am very surprised at that reply, I am working (thankfully never been on the dole) but I was honestly baffled at the thinking behind cutting the minimum wage... I thought it would make the dole more appealing.

Mr Benevolent

bernyh wrote: »

but I was honestly baffled at the thinking behind cutting the minimum wage... I thought it would make the dole more appealing.

It does, IF your normal job is minimum wage. For most people it's not.

chucken1

Biggins wrote: »

Exactly. Thats the ball game summed up on one post.
The sheep of this nation however are still busy infighting on each other, blaming one another, to kop such things though!

her
I'm not sure what you mean about 'sheep'...but it's obvious from boards that the 'haves' blame the 'have nots'

I used to wonder how the brits took hold for so long..now I see.

Huh..Talk about a country together?

Kick away..I'm down already!

chucken1

Confab wrote: »

It does, IF your normal job is minimum wage. For most people it's not.

That is the most condesinding sh*te. Who serves your Latte.? Who makes your roll? Who the F*ck do you think cleans 'your' house?? Who fills your car with petrol?

Mr Benevolent

chucken1 wrote: »

That is the most condesinding sh*te. Who serves your Latte.? Who makes your roll? Who the F*ck do you think cleans 'your' house?? Who fills your car with petrol?

I just said I was on the dole. How can I be condescending? I don't have a car, drink latte or have a house cleaner. The minimum wage is now 13300 per year. Most people on this wage are either migrants or are not intending to make a career out of the job.

Oh, and about 4% of the workforce are on minimum wage. So I'm correct, most people are not on the minimum wage.

Royal Irish

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i'm not for once second saying i think any of this is a good thing for these people, i think its horrible the least off are suffering. but i just get annoyed when people dont look outside their own little world about what this budget needs to do and how its madness to think anyone is going to get away unaffected by this.

Are you a bond holder?

oppenheimer1

The welfare cuts didn't go far enough, cowardice that the pensioners weren't hit too.

chucken1

The macho bullies on the internet...great lads!

oppenheimer1

chucken1 wrote: »

OK..cop on right now! Show me please some reason for this attack.

When you tell people thaat your family costs the state over €15000 a year in direct cash benefits (or almost the tax contribution of three people on the average industrial wage, in 2011) people tend to get annoyed.

chucken1

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

When you tell people thaat your family costs the state over €15000 a year in direct cash benefits (or almost the tax contribution of three people on the average industrial wage, in 2011) people tend to get annoyed.

290e a week..3 people.Now thats a problem?!

As I said earlier,do you know my circumstances?

The OP was NOT about all social welfare.It was a
compasionate posting for people LESS able to cope!

oppenheimer1

chucken1 wrote: »

290e a week..3 people.Now thats a problem?!

As I said earlier,do you know my circumstances?

The OP was NOT about all social welfare.It was a
compasionate posting for people LESS able to cope!

I never said I personally had a problem, but I can understand others taking issue with it.

But this is about social welfare and has little to do with a compassionate society. A compassionate society supports people that need help as much as it can, it is unreasonable to expect the state to offer support beyond what it can afford. It isn't as if the benefit has been cut hugely and people will still retain their other benefits such as medical card and rent allowance. People survived in 2006 on these levels of support.

We cannot give to blind people/carers/unemployed etc what we do not have

Incidentally the OP mentions a Fine Gael TD not supporting the budget, so as we're stating the obvious here I'd like to add that water is also wet, I believe the Pope is a Catholic and that bears **** in woods.

melekalikimaka

sandmanporto wrote: »

wait a minute here!
we are not a successful nation now ok!
what you're saying is, that the rich who can afford to give more than the poor, should pay the same as the poor! quite frankly in my book thats not equality!
Do you know why the French Revolution took place?
Are you from a well to do family or just have a good job?
Personally I had a good job and am now umemployed. Believe me, I know how hard it is! Lets get our stories straight! Equality in proportion!

i do not mean the same amount of money, i mean percentage wise, but realistically i feel there should be a cut off point. Do you honestly think its fair for a lad to pay 500k taxs a year while another pays 25, for the same services? My background is irrelevent and personalises this discussion which is not needed. I don't quite understand the term 'well to do family', both my parents are in full time employment and theres always a dinner on the table if thats wat you mean

Cookie_Monster

I can only assume there talk of it being rejected as the cuts made are totally unrealistic in their lightness...

The levels of all social payments are still insanely high and yet they are arguing over 4% here or 2% there :rolleyes:

bryaner

turbobaby wrote: »

Well you are on the internet at half one on a Thursday night.

Cancel your internet connection, sell your computer, for a start.

People need to dig in.

Theres always one..:rolleyes:

bryaner

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I can only assume there talk of it being rejected as the cuts made are totally unrealistic in their lightness...

The levels of all social payments are still insanely high and yet they are arguing over 4% here or 2% there :rolleyes:

I'm on the dole and thought the cuts would and could be more, but I think the disabled and carers should be left alone.

thebigbiffo

i am sick to the back f'ucking teeth of the bleeding hearts banging on about how 8 quid a week is going to make them starve - f'ucks sake. they've taken a less percentage cut than i have just cause i'm 'privileged' to have a job :rolleyes:

it should have been more. they're only saving about 90m reducing the blind benefit, carers etc. they should have simply included this is in the reduction in job seekers allowance/long term unemployment benefit and left them alone.

but then sure the job seekers would have more to whinge about - sure why should they have to contribute.

Blazer

Quite happy that social welfare is cut as well as child benefit.
It doesn't affect me directly but for my brother to go back to work (married with 4 kids) he'd have to be on a minimum salary of about 28k to match what he's getting in social welfare.
Where's the incentive to work for anyone there for a pittance?
I'd have cut social welfare/child benefits even more and left the minimum wage either lone or left those people out of the tax net or create a lower rate of tax for them..at least they'd be contributing.
Social welfare needs to come down...

sandmanporto

Confab wrote: »

Ridiculous. I'm on the dole and I support all of the SW reductions. In fact I'm disappointed that they weren't more drastic.

Are you on the dole really? You seem pretty relaxed about the cuts, I think there needs to be a serious audit or means test in that case!

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i do not mean the same amount of money, i mean percentage wise, but realistically i feel there should be a cut off point. Do you honestly think its fair for a lad to pay 500k taxs a year while another pays 25, for the same services? My background is irrelevent and personalises this discussion which is not needed. I don't quite understand the term 'well to do family', both my parents are in full time employment and theres always a dinner on the table if thats wat you mean

That's not what I asked. Im trying to get an idea into the demographics of the anti social welfare people on here. It would put a realistic perspective on those who view that cuts are either necessary or unnecessary.
Both you're parents put dinner on the table, so does every other family who have enough money to get a cheap chicken and some veg in the shop! It doesnt answer my question!
And as you say, Do you honestly think its fair for a lad to pay 500k taxs a year while another pays 25, for the same services? well, what services? we arent talking about a service here! we are talking about taxes that the government( at the top) decide to enforce! Do you think its fair that bono pays 500k a year while a person on the dole pays 25 a year? Think about it! Bono doesnt even pay tax to Ireland.. And im sure there are many off shore accounts of the rich here! you wont see them suffer will you?

bryaner wrote: »

I'm on the dole and thought the cuts would and could be more, but I think the disabled and carers should be left alone.

I agree, carers and disabled need to be left off! The government are the top brick on a pyramid, as you go further down the classes theres a majority that are essential for government! but there will always be a government. what im saying is, the bottom layers have as much power and foundation if they just stick together as one foundation and fight!!

Star Bingo

not really in a position to comment, i'm on the dole but i recall how i went to apply for the scratch in london when my contract working on reconstructing the lift shafts in Harrods was up n the money was so bad just wasn't worth it. hope we don't use that particular british practice as a template to further alleviate our deficit cos the dole could be sliced in half

sandmanporto

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Quite happy that social welfare is cut as well as child benefit.
It doesn't affect me directly but for my brother to go back to work (married with 4 kids) he'd have to be on a minimum salary of about 28k to match what he's getting in social welfare.
Where's the incentive to work for anyone there for a pittance?
I'd have cut social welfare/child benefits even more and left the minimum wage either lone or left those people out of the tax net or create a lower rate of tax for them..at least they'd be contributing.
Social welfare needs to come down...

Fair enough. I agree with some of you points? I find that when talking about the cuts, we all leave out our thought outside the box. What are the government doing for the homeless who have no fixed abode to receive any welfare payments!
It should be an equal society. and as my business studies teacher said when you get something, its human nature to want more. That applies to the banker and likewise social welfare recipients! but what about those who are borderline poverty or worse living rough? Have you got any opinions on those issues? Leave the millionaires take a cut, it wont force them to live on borderline poverty like circumstances:rolleyes:

Blazer

sandmanporto wrote: »

Fair enough. I agree with some of you points? I find that when talking about the cuts, we all leave out our thought outside the box. What are the government doing for the homeless who have no fixed abode to receive any welfare payments!
It should be an equal society. and as my business studies teacher said when you get something, its human nature to want more. That applies to the banker and likewise social welfare recipients! but what about those who are borderline poverty or worse living rough? Have you got any opinions on those issues? Leave the millionaires take a cut, it wont force them to live on borderline poverty like circumstances:rolleyes:

I've absolutely no problem with my taxes (over 30k a year) going to the homeless, the poor, disabled etc. I'm quite happy to take a hit in order to fund these further..
What I do have an objection to is my taxes going to fund someone who hasn't the slightest inclination to abide by the system and basically milks the social welfare system and doing nixers on the side.
You should see the amount of people on the dole back in my hometown...all smoke, all have kids, and all of them are in the pub every day, across to the bookies etc and doing nixers on the side..it absolutely sickens me to see those bastards living it up at the expense of people who were working , lost their job etc and are now struggling to make ends meet.
Basically I'd cut by 50% of social welfare those who haven't had a job in 3-5 years (because of the recession i'm making allowances) so that these parasites can't live off others and reallocate that money towards those on the short term.
I don't think I could be fairer than that?

sandmanporto

Sc@recrow wrote: »

I've absolutely no problem with my taxes (over 30k a year) going to the homeless, the poor, disabled etc. I'm quite happy to take a hit in order to fund these further..
What I do have an objection to is my taxes going to fund someone who hasn't the slightest inclination to abide by the system and basically milks the social welfare system and doing nixers on the side.
You should see the amount of people on the dole back in my hometown...all smoke, all have kids, and all of them are in the pub every day, across to the bookies etc and doing nixers on the side..it absolutely sickens me to see those bastards living it up at the expense of people who were working , lost their job etc and are now struggling to make ends meet.
Basically I'd cut by 50% of social welfare those who haven't had a job in 3-5 years (because of the recession i'm making allowances) so that these parasites can't live off others and reallocate that money towards those on the short term.
I don't think I could be fairer than that?

Well I can see humanity in your reply and I do agree! I think that during the boom era, those who were unemployed should have been forced to work! and I mean forced!
I agree with you. Everybody is angry, but I think the bankers should go to prison for the state of the nation in fairness. The ones who made the decisions should be jailed! Like in the US.
As for the people who wont lift a finger if they were livin in a money pit, they should get forced to show them the light! And I mean the unemployed during the boom era. I worked in ****ty jobs durin those years that drove me insane and yet it was difficult I made an effort until I got my qualification! If they saw work, they wouldnt recognise what it was to be honest!

tudlytops

sandmanporto wrote: »

Well I can see humanity in your reply and I do agree! I think that during the boom era, those who were unemployed should have been forced to work! and I mean forced!
I agree with you. Everybody is angry, but I think the bankers should go to prison for the state of the nation in fairness. The ones who made the decisions should be jailed! Like in the US.
As for the people who wont lift a finger if they were livin in a money pit, they should get forced to show them the light! And I mean the unemployed during the boom era. I worked in ****ty jobs durin those years that drove me insane and yet it was difficult I made an effort until I got my qualification! If they saw work, they wouldnt recognise what it was to be honest!

Agree....

One of my jobs, after expensive to get to work, i come out with £10 less then the welfare, but it was on my contract that my wage would go up 1K after the frist 6 month's and another after the first year, so i took the job and stuck with it, the first 6 months were hard though.

As for forcing people to work....You can't do that, what about their right to do nothing and live off other people...and holidays, how are they gona go on holidays, it is tiring being unemployed, they have to have holidays in Spain, Portugal, etc.

Before you lot say anything, i'm not talking about those that have now lost their jobs, i'm talking about the long term career unemployed.