AIB Not giving a toss as usual

Snakeblood

irishjay wrote: »

tell me im wrong ? some ejet got a 500k euro hand shake a few weeks ago in the dail... retirment package keep car . pension.. etc.. come on ... its all around us .stupid people we are for letting it happen in my opinion.. prevention better than cure i hear myself saying ..
just like that half a million euro in the right spotlight would do enormous wealth to small buisness and banks would love to see that flurish ..

You're dead right. Have a pop at nigerians because politicians are making out like bandits.

The_B_Man

Dunno if this has been pointed out yet but....

They will have to be paid bonuses, but since the bonuses have yet to be paid, they still count as future payments, from a tax perspective.


So, the government can apply a new tax to these "bank bonuses" of 99%, thus getting back most of the 40m.

Mal-Adjusted

The_B_Man wrote: »

Dunno if this has been pointed out yet but....

They will have to be paid bonuses, but since the bonuses have yet to be paid, they still count as future payments, from a tax perspective.


So, the government can apply a new tax to these "bank bonuses" of 99%, thus getting back most of the 40m.

why not 100% ?

JonB

"New" bank regulations It's like Eircom Broadband. Reknowned for being ****. As the company start losing customers. They rebrand the broadband as next gen when really it's the same **** except they add on a few expenses for the consumer to pay and twindle their customers.

Laois_Man

I do all my banking with AIB. Salary payments, credit card, direct debits in and out, everything is with AIB.

I feel like closing my account with them and moving to someone new! Should be fairly easy in this day and age - without too much hassle to get everything switched over? The new bank would do that easily for me. Right?

Who's with me and who should I go to? Ulster?

thebaz

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

why not 100% ?

agree , even FF TD's are questioning why these crazy bonuses are being paid , hopefully common sense will prevail, and the state money can be used on more worthy cases than bankers greed

billy the squid

Ulster Bank is offering assistance to those wishing to move their business from "irish banks."

once had a Bank of Ireland account back in the 90s but they were a rip off. even back then AIB were money grabbing so and sos charging you to take your own money out of the machines.

Laois_Man

billy the squid wrote: »

Ulster Bank is offering assistance to those wishing to move their business from "irish banks."

Thanks. I made the call to them and had to answer 2 million questions and it sounds like there's oceans of forms/documentation coming at me in the post. But I don't care, I'm doing it! I've had enough of these AIB bastards!

Nodin

No bonuses for them, it seems.

"AIB has decided not to pay the €40m in bonuses to some of its senior staff members after an intervention from Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan."
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1213/harneym.html

Yo Buddy. You still alive?

Nodin wrote: »

No bonuses for them, it seems.

"AIB has decided not to pay the €40m in bonuses to some of its senior staff members after an intervention from Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan."
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1213/harneym.html

"some of its senior staff"

Probably important to note that part.

gizmo

Yo Buddy. You still alive? wrote: »

"some of its senior staff"

Probably important to note that part.

Given Lenihan's wording it'd take that as the "some" of the staff who were getting the bonuses in the first place.

yoshytoshy

Fianna fail are great if the banks don't get their bonuses.

How did this even come about ,what a complete farce.

th3 s1aught3r

If AIB and the Irish banks are no longer going to pay bonuses, how are they going to have Capital Market, trading, departments , which live on bonuses
Just a thought

thebaz

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

If AIB and the Irish banks are no longer going to pay bonuses, how are they going to have Capital Market, trading, departments , which live on bonuses
Just a thought

common sense prevailed - in order to pay bonuses the organization as a whole should start making money , instead oh haemorrhaging cash , and then turning to the state for last ditch help .... if a bank was still private and making money , no one would complain - but what happened to a practically defunct organisation was absurd

danielmoran

it is ridiculous for them to have expected a bonus with the **** ireland is in.

ninjasurfer1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1213/harneym.html

AIB says its board has decided not to pay the controversial €40m in bonuses to some of its senior staff members.

The move follows a letter from Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan to the bank's board.

The Minister said the payment of financial support needed by the bank from the State would be conditional on the non-payment of bonuses 'no matter when they may have been earned'.

Mr Lenihan said: 'I appreciate that AIB was not in a position to put up a sworn defence in the High Court proceedings and that the Executive Chairman and the Board have acted with complete propriety in this matter.'

The bank said tonight its legal advice had been that it was obliged to pay the bonuses but that the Minister's intervention overtook that obligation.

It said: 'The bank very much appreciates the support it has received to date from the State and the Irish taxpayers and acknowledges that it will continue to rely on this support for some time to come.'

AIB Executive Chairman David Hodgkinson said the bank was 'relieved' to be in a position not to pay the bonuses.

Head of Corporate Services at AIB, Alan Kelly, said that the board of the bank had been embarrassed at the prospect of paying the bonuses.

The bank, which has received €3.5bn from the Government in assistance, was due to pay the bonuses for 2008 as a result of a High Court ruling earlier this year.

A staff member had taken the legal action to force the bank to pay him his bonus.

Earlier, Taoiseach Brian Cowen said the Government was looking at all its options to see if anything could be done to stop the payment of the bonuses.

Mr Cowen said the matter would be discussed at a Cabinet meeting tomorrow. He said he understands the serious concerns people have about the bonuses.

His comments came after two of his senior ministers criticised the payments.


Minister for Health Mary Harney said it would have been better if AIB had contested the legal action.

She also highlighted the amount of that which had been put into the bank.

Ms Harney said: 'Clearly the bank's ability to pay is very much in doubt given the state of the bank and the huge amount of capital the Exchequer, on behalf of the taxpayer, have had to invest in the bank.

'At a time when the Exchequer is putting a huge amount of capital into AIB, everyone has to be mindful of their responsibilities, and that includes management, the board and the Government.'

Minister for the Environment and Green Party leader John Gormley said the payment of the bonuses was 'insensitive and inappropriate'.

Fine Gael deputy leader James Reilly said the Minister had 'caved in' to pressure from the public and the Opposition.

He said: 'Brian Lenihan has finally responded to public outrage and Opposition pressure on the obscenity of AIB bonuses.'

Now if only he would bow to public pressure and push for an election!!

danielmoran

i agree

msg11

Good work Mr Lenihan , well done on stepping in and taking them fools out of la la land. The Irish tax payer have in a strange way just been spared 40€ Million .

Now if you could just keep up the positive action for once ..

mikemac

Nodin wrote: »

No bonuses for them, it seems.

"AIB has decided not to pay the €40m in bonuses to some of its senior staff members after an intervention from Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan."
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1213/harneym.html

Back to court so. These bank staff in Capital Markets may not have union representation but they know their contracts. They've won one court case and will win another

The bank said tonight its legal advice had been that it was obliged to pay the bonuses but that the Minister's intervention overtook that obligation.

From my very limited legal knowledge, the AIB staff had a contract in 2008 which they fulfilled and I don't see how it can be disregarded just on a Ministers word in 2010.

And the court has already ruled. A Minister cannot just overrule a court decision.
Separation of powers in a republic. But I don't know a whole lot on the legal situation.

I'm just surprised a Minister can take a contract and say I override this

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

senordingdong

feelingstressed wrote: »

Back to court so. These bank staff in Capital Markets may not have union representation but they know their contracts. They've won one court case and will win another



From my very limited legal knowledge, the AIB staff had a contract in 2008 which they fulfilled and I don't see how it can be disregarded just on a Ministers word in 2010.

And the court has already ruled. A Minister cannot just overrule a court decision.
Separation of powers in a republic. But I don't know a whole lot on the legal situation.

I'm just surprised a Minister can take a contract and say I override this

According to Lenihan, state funding is dependant upon the non-payment of bonuses. So basically he's threatening to pull state funding if they pay those bonuses.

dotsman

feelingstressed wrote: »

From my very limited legal knowledge, the AIB staff had a contract in 2008 which they fulfilled and I don't see how it can be disregarded just on a Ministers word in 2010.

And the court has already ruled. A Minister cannot just overrule a court decision.
Separation of powers in a republic. But I don't know a whole lot on the legal situation.

I'm just surprised a Minister can take a contract and say I override this

From my understanding, this is exactly what the minister is going to do. Once again, the "bankers" are being used as a scapegoat and by leading the lynch mob and sacrificing thee guys, he' going to receive a popularity bump. Basically, I understand that he's going to bring in legislation allowing him to retrospectively tear up legal contracts at the whim of some socialist/anarchist/sensationalist mob.

What an amazing precedent we are setting as a country.:rolleyes:

CiaranC

dotsman wrote: »

From my understanding, this is exactly what the minister is going to do. Once again, the "bankers" are being used as a scapegoat and by leading the lynch mob and sacrificing thee guys, he' going to receive a popularity bump. Basically, I understand that he's going to bring in legislation allowing him to retrospectively tear up legal contracts at the whim of some socialist/anarchist/sensationalist mob.

What an amazing precedent we are setting as a country.:rolleyes:

Cry me a river. These banks lost any claim to autonomy or independence when they failed and brought down our entire economy with them. Funny how the bankers and their supporters have no objection to socialism when the state is socialising their massive debts due to their gross incompetence

sensibleken

dotsman wrote: »

From my understanding, this is exactly what the minister is going to do. Once again, the "bankers" are being used as a scapegoat and by leading the lynch mob and sacrificing thee guys, he' going to receive a popularity bump. Basically, I understand that he's going to bring in legislation allowing him to retrospectively tear up legal contracts at the whim of some socialist/anarchist/sensationalist mob.

What an amazing precedent we are setting as a country.:rolleyes:

give me a f*ckin break. ah yes the great unwashed are getting upity when 40 million is being paid out to people who destroyed this country whicle they are having to pay for the mess. well excuse us.

as Ciaran stated, they have no objection to socialism when is pulls them out of the fire that free capitalism caused

Laois_Man

dotsman wrote: »

Once again, the "bankers" are being used as a scapegoat

I don't know wheter to be amused, be furious or be pityful for you!

Beaucoupfish

dotsman wrote: »

From my understanding, this is exactly what the minister is going to do. Once again, the "bankers" are being used as a scapegoat and by leading the lynch mob and sacrificing thee guys, he' going to receive a popularity bump. Basically, I understand that he's going to bring in legislation allowing him to retrospectively tear up legal contracts at the whim of some socialist/anarchist/sensationalist mob.

What an amazing precedent we are setting as a country.:rolleyes:

Don't put sensationalist and socialist in the same bracket. If these bonuses are allowed this would be the dangerous precedent.
It must be remembered that welfare has been cut for the disabled and these bonuses are tax payers money. This is unacceptable. However I'm sure you'll be delighted to know that trader John Foy will recieve his grubby cheque on the advice of the Attorney General. I'm sure he doesn't care.
This is a question of morality.

Ghandee

Looks like out finance minister finally grew a set and blocked this bonus payment!

Few kids won't get what they were expecting from santa now!

won't someone think of the poor bankers!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11985825

jimthemental

Jesus they were getting bonuses for beiieving in santa!!!

Few kids won't get what they were expecting from santa now!

EoghanConway

As I understand it, these guys were investment bankers who made a huge profit for the bank in that period and actually earned their relatively small bonuses. Open to correction on that.

FatherLen

cool, i am pleasantly suprised.

Monty Burnz

My understanding is that nearly all the bonuses will be paid - only the guys at the top will miss out.

Subject to correction of course...

starbelgrade

Yet another crowd pleasing move from Lenihan & his cohorts.

True, it's gonna save us a few quid, but it's also cynical in the extreme.

€40 million is f*ck all compared with the billions we are paying towards bailing out the senior bond holders.

In relative terms, it's like sewing a hole in one pocket to stop change from falling out, while not bothering with the other pocket, where there's a gaping hole with wads of notes falling out onto the ground.

Thanks very much Mr.Lenihan, but you're still a f*ckwit.

sensibleken

EoghanConway wrote: »

As I understand it, these guys were investment bankers who made a huge profit for the bank in that period and actually earned their relatively small bonuses. Open to correction on that.

well firstly the average bonus is 16,000 so i wouldn't call that small, even relatively. Secondly I dont they actually released their job descriptions. Third, so what if they made money while the bank is being bailed out at massive cost.

Im paying extra tax because the banking debt is now soverign debt. They are a 'bonus' cost to the bank thats coming out of my practically empty pocket. They are entitled to nothing

mikemac

Let a judge study the contracts and make a legal decision.
That's how we resolve disputes in Ireland

Oh wait, this was already done

senordingdong

EoghanConway wrote: »

As I understand it, these guys were investment bankers who made a huge profit for the bank in that period and actually earned their relatively small bonuses. Open to correction on that.

And then the bank went under, taking all the bonuses with it.

wes

Some good news for a change. Time for the Bankers to share some of the pain, that the rest of us will have to endure. No sympathy for them at all. Personally, I think they should share some more of the pain so to speak.

ixoy

EoghanConway wrote: »

As I understand it, these guys were investment bankers who made a huge profit for the bank in that period and actually earned their relatively small bonuses. Open to correction on that.

So? I earned a bonus recently, based on performance, but didn't get it because the company couldn't pay due to the economic situation. That's fine, I understand that. That's how it should be. Bonuses should be based on both personal performance and company performance (i.e. the ability of the company to pay).

What really annoys people though is that they expect the bonuses to be paid for previous profit periods but, when it comes to massive losses in the current period, AIB wants the people of Ireland to cough up.

EoghanConway

sensibleken wrote: »

well firstly the average bonus is 16,000 so i wouldn't call that small, even relatively. Secondly I dont they actually released their job descriptions. Third, so what if they made money while the bank is being bailed out at massive cost.

Im paying extra tax because the banking debt is now soverign debt. They are a 'bonus' cost to the bank thats coming out of my practically empty pocket. They are entitled to nothing

Firstly, it has been mentioned several times that they work in Capital Markets so yes we have a good idea of what their jobs are. Bonuses are always a fraction of what is pulled in so yes, it is relatively small. If they collectively earned 40 million for themselves, they must have made a significantly larger number for the bank. That's money coming from the world markets, into Ireland. A good thing.

If anything, you are paying less tax now than you would have if these guys hadn't been working for AIB at the time. Think about it. These guys were profitable. The loans AIB gave out were unprofitable. Subtract the two and we get a net loss that, thanks to the government, the taxpayer gets the bill for. Now if these guys didn't make that profit the bank would have had even greater losses. Who do you think would be paying for that? Right. And to reward them for their efforts you want to punish them because they work for a bank? How is that fair?

take everything

Would this be due to pressure from the UK.
Heard that the UK were reluctant to contribute their 3.5 billion of the "bailout" if crazy stuff like this was still going on here.

senordingdong

take everything wrote: »

Would this be due to pressure from the UK.
Heard that the UK were reluctant to contribute their 3.5 billion of the "bailout" if crazy stuff like this was still going on here.

Source?

sensibleken

EoghanConway wrote: »

Firstly, it has been mentioned several times that they work in Capital Markets so yes we have a good idea of what their jobs are. Bonuses are always a fraction of what is pulled in so yes, it is relatively small. If they collectively earned 40 million for themselves, they must have made a significantly larger number for the bank. That's money coming from the world markets, into Ireland. A good thing.

If anything, you are paying less tax now than you would have if these guys hadn't been working for AIB at the time. Think about it. These guys were profitable. The loans AIB gave out were unprofitable. Subtract the two and we get a net loss that, thanks to the government, the taxpayer gets the bill for. Now if these guys didn't make that profit the bank would have had even greater losses. Who do you think would be paying for that? Right. And to reward them for their efforts you want to punish them because they work for a bank? How is that fair?

Fair? seriously? Is it fair that I have to pay for a bonus for someone who according to you earns 40 million for themselves?

These greedy fúcks can fúck right off. They are living in a dream world.

Fighting Irish

EoghanConway wrote: »

Firstly, it has been mentioned several times that they work in Capital Markets so yes we have a good idea of what their jobs are. Bonuses are always a fraction of what is pulled in so yes, it is relatively small. If they collectively earned 40 million for themselves, they must have made a significantly larger number for the bank. That's money coming from the world markets, into Ireland. A good thing.

If anything, you are paying less tax now than you would have if these guys hadn't been working for AIB at the time. Think about it. These guys were profitable. The loans AIB gave out were unprofitable. Subtract the two and we get a net loss that, thanks to the government, the taxpayer gets the bill for. Now if these guys didn't make that profit the bank would have had even greater losses. Who do you think would be paying for that? Right. And to reward them for their efforts you want to punish them because they work for a bank? How is that fair?

Stop talking sense, all bankers made me buy an overpriced house and max out my credit card. I've lost my job as well. So know i think it's time for anyone making money to die!!!!!!1

Fighting Irish

sensibleken wrote: »

Fair? seriously? Is it fair that I have to pay for a bonus for someone who according to you earns 40 million for themselves?

These greedy fúcks can fúck right off. They are living in a dream world.

So if you earned 100 million for a company, you'd be happy getting paid minimum wage?


You are living in a dream world!

sensibleken

Fighting Irish wrote: »

So if you earned 100 million for a company, you'd be happy getting paid minimum wage?


You are living in a dream world!

what in gods name are you talking about.

Even if they made 3 billion (see i can make up figures too) for their company. Their company is being bailed out by me and you and everyone else in the state and its us that have to pay that money. If the company was paying their bonus they could pay whatever they like.

Forgive me, but if im going to be ass-fúcked twice I would like it to be consensual

CiaranC

EoghanConway wrote: »

And to reward them for their efforts you want to punish them because they work for a bank? How is that fair?

Fair? My mate drove a van for a delivery company up till a couple of weeks ago. He never missed a drop, he performed above and beyond many, many times for his company, worked unpaid overtime, took paycut after paycut, worked reduced hours. Then his company went bust so he went down the dole and signed on.

Should the state intervene, prop up his failed company and pay his bonus?

Course they ****ing shouldnt. Where does this sense of entitlement in the banks come from?

Sir Oxman

msg11 wrote: »

Good work Mr Lenihan , well done on stepping in and taking them fools out of la la land. The Irish tax payer have in a strange way just been spared 40€ Million .

Now if you could just keep up the positive action for once ..

Don't be sucked in by this - read the small print and don't forget the story in a day or two..
Lenihan knew about these (and much bigger previously) bonus paymts for ages - what did he do? Sweet FA until it blew up in the media on the same day that blind/carers money was cut, also the British-Irish Council meeting was fun I'd say.

Over 2 years of this shít going on and he decides at the end of 2010 to finally put a punitive levy on bank bonuses?

Keep following this story..you'll find most will probably get their payment from your money

EoghanConway

gambiaman wrote: »

Keep following this story..you'll find most will probably get their payment from your money

Plus the lawyers will most likely get nice fees courtesy of Mr. Lenihan.

thebaz

EoghanConway wrote: »

As I understand it, these guys were investment bankers who made a huge profit for the bank in that period and actually earned their relatively small bonuses. Open to correction on that.

it depends on your understanding of "relativly small" - for an institution that has gone broke, driven the economy into a massive recession i wouldn't consider 40 million "relatively small" - but i guess in the AIB world, "40 million" is relatively small - and there lies part of the problem

thebaz

EoghanConway wrote: »

Plus the lawyers will most likely get nice fees courtesy of Mr. Lenihan.

it wouldnt be the first time that lawyers will defend the absurd, thats what they do , so maybe the dealers may think twice about their case , if they realise they may end up with legal fees along with no bonus - but i guess these guys have no shame

EoghanConway

thebaz wrote: »

it wouldnt be the first time that lawyers will defend the absurd, thats what they do , so maybe the dealers may think twice about their case , if they realise they may end up with legal fees along with no bonus - but i guess these guys have no shame

They have already won once, it seems as if victory is assured. Why should they feel shame? They did their job and did not get paid. Shame on AIB, shame on the ministers who have villified them.