At What Point is it Acceptable to Switch Allegiance?

VW 1

rarnes1 wrote: »

I have a friend who supported Villa until he was mid teens.

Now a loyal man utd fan.

As I said above I dont condone allegiance switches, but would people have less of a problem with this if he went the other way and wasnt seen just as a glory hunter moving to a bigger team?

For example United to Pool? I jest I jest, but would a move in support from Chelsea to say Birmingham be seen as more acceptable?

Blazer

I know a few ppl myself who switched but even though I didn't start following Newcastle till I was about 20 (never followed a team before) I couldn't start following another club.
Now following them for 17 years

celticbest

You have one team until you die, you will have bad times but hopefully you will have more good times, it's not always about winning (very rarely not), sometimes it's about the craic you had while supporting your team & the memories you will have for life.........

DrumSteve

I've followed Liverpool and Bohs since before I can remember ( I was claimed by a member of my family for liverpool).

I would never change allegience. Ever.

Both team's have given me Amazing Highs and Lows and I could never support anyone else.

Carlos_Ray

IMO its perfectly acceptable to switch teams. Most Irish people support foreign teams anyway, and most of this support was born out of "who was winning at the time." When your older you can take a deeper interest in the clubs etc and perhaps find a club that reflects your own values/interests better.

Players, managers, staff, owners all switch allegiance (for money), so when an whats wrong with a supporter swtiching for ideoligical/personal reasons? Of course the marketing machine pump out the idea of "club loyalty". But this loyalty is little more than loyalty to a "brand". You might as well be loyal to Sony or Phillips. Thats the reality of modern day football.


Personally I've never switched allegiance but I see absolutely no problem with people that do. At least it shows they have thought deeply enough about the issue and are prepared to make a conscious reasoned decision. I find that type of person at lot more interesting to talk to, than the in your face "till I die" type fans who's initial attraction to their club was based on childhood glory hunting.

CiaranC

TangyZizzle wrote: »

I stopped supporting Chelsea at the start of this season. Admittedly, I was a glory-hunter and didnt even watch football until the season after they did the double.
Iv started going to Sporting Fingal matches this season and had way more fun than I ever did sitting at home watching Chelsea on the box.

Seriously, there isnt even a hint of a dig at barstoolers etc in this post, dont say there is

I felt no shame in 'switching' from Chelsea to Sporting Fingal. It feels better being able to travel to the games and make my voice heard in the stand as opposed to shouting at the tv.

I dont really see this as "switching" as its not like for like.

ricero

Rest in peace Ashley peacock

OhNoYouDidn't

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

IMO its perfectly acceptable to switch teams. Most Irish people support foreign teams anyway, and most of this support was born out of "who was winning at the time." When your older you can take a deeper interest in the clubs etc and perhaps find a club that reflects your own values/interests better.

That may work in an Irish context of arbitraily picking one random foreign side over another in childhood, I would agree.

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Players, managers, staff, owners all switch allegiance (for money), so when an whats wrong with a supporter swtiching for ideoligical/personal reasons?

There is no reason in the world that can justify switching from Celtic to Rangers or Rovers to Bohs. None. At all.

There is some arguement for switching focus on leagues or if you move to a city, but what you are basically saying is that you can support one team, switch to a rival, abuse your old team and not be considered a bit odd.

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Of course the marketing machine pump out the idea of "club loyalty". But this loyalty is little more than loyalty to a "brand". You might as well be loyal to Sony or Phillips. Thats the reality of modern day football.

If thats how you see fandom, then switch away, as you clearly don't 'get it'...

Gavin "shels"

That_Guy wrote: »

My loyalty is and always will be Newcastle United. That said, I will not give any money to Mike Ashley while he is in charge.

Take it you don't buy Sky Sports, etc... so?


There's no point it's acceptable to switch allegiance, you don't suddenly go from supporting Shels to supporting Shams, Shams to Bohs, etc... I don't know if it counts for supporting foreign clubs tbh, clubs which most foreigners wouldn't actually have an allegiance too.

stovelid

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

IMO its perfectly acceptable to switch teams. Most Irish people support foreign teams anyway, and most of this support was born out of "who was winning at the time." When your older you can take a deeper interest in the clubs etc and perhaps find a club that reflects your own values/interests better.

Players, managers, staff, owners all switch allegiance (for money), so when an whats wrong with a supporter swtiching for ideoligical/personal reasons? Of course the marketing machine pump out the idea of "club loyalty". But this loyalty is little more than loyalty to a "brand". You might as well be loyal to Sony or Phillips. Thats the reality of modern day football.


Personally I've never switched allegiance but I see absolutely no problem with people that do. At least it shows they have thought deeply enough about the issue and are prepared to make a conscious reasoned decision. I find that type of person at lot more interesting to talk to, than the in your face "till I die" type fans who's initial attraction to their club was based on childhood glory hunting.

That's a really depressing thought.

Surely nobody could watch the team they support (whether foreign/local or on TV/live) with this amount of dispassion and disregard for history?

What's the use otherwise? You may as well watch kids playing five-a-side.

Wolfe Tone

Jazjus its a bloody sport, support who you want to ffs. Some people take it too seriously.


That said I support utd, but also have a major soft spot for Spurs(drilled into me by my Dad!) I want both of those teams to do well, but Utd edges it by a significant margin. Would never support any other teams.


I do know a guy who stopped supporting Chelsea for, guess who, Man City.

stovelid

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I do know a guy who stopped supporting Chelsea for, guess who, Man City.

There's actually a time line for it, depending on when you were born.

Blackburn -> Newcastle -> Chelsea -> Barcelona/Madrid/City

OhNoYouDidn't

Gavin shels wrote: »

Take it you don't buy Sky Sports, etc... so?


There's no point it's acceptable to switch allegiance, you don't suddenly go from supporting Shels to supporting Shams, Shams to Bohs, etc... I don't know if it counts for supporting foreign clubs tbh, clubs which most foreigners wouldn't actually have an allegiance too.

Who are 'Shams'?

This actually came up when Rovers were on deaths door. What will you do if Rovers go kaput? Some said they would barstool, some give up altogether, but interestingly most said it was off to watch Tallaght Town in the LSL...

No-one said they would pick up another LoI side.

Wolfe Tone

I wonder would people have an issue if someone stopped supporting a team for a worse one? Lets say I stopped supporting Utd to support say Blackpool, Swansea or someone like that.

eagle eye

stovelid wrote: »

There's actually a time line for it, depending on when you were born.

Blackburn -> Newcastle -> Chelsea -> Barcelona/Madrid/City

I don't get what you are saying here

stovelid

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't get what you are saying here

Teams that seemed to get a temporary rush of supporters and the succeeding team they're most likely to discard them for.

pickarooney

Say your son got a contract with your team's fiercest rivals and they meet in the cup final and he has a penalty in the last minute to win it.

Would you want him to miss?

Wolfe Tone

pickarooney wrote: »

Say your son got a contract with your team's fiercest rivals and they meet in the cup final and he has a penalty in the last minute to win it.

Would you want him to miss?

I have no son

stovelid

pickarooney wrote: »

Would you want him to miss?

Honestly: yes.

Although he wouldn't be playing for them if he still wanted a father in his life.

geeky

pickarooney wrote: »

Say your son got a contract with your team's fiercest rivals and they meet in the cup final and he has a penalty in the last minute to win it.

Would you want him to miss?

Am I the only one who thought of that moment in the Ross O'Carroll Kelly books where he deliberately misses a penalty kick for UCD against Blackrock College RFC?

It seems a lot of people think of being a 'proper fan' as an act of masochism. I could understand the concept of undying loyalty in days when supporters had some stake in the clubs (I understand it much more in the LOI or at the lower levels of football) but premiership teams are run as businesses, through and through, by people who don't give a flying f**k about most people in the stands so long as they buy the strip and pay for their season ticket. Why do they deserve a loyalty that we don't give to, say, Sony or BMW?

pickarooney

That's harsh, but consistent.

eagle eye

stovelid wrote: »

Teams that seemed to get a temporary rush of supporters and the succeeding team they're most likely to discard them for.

Blackburn never really got a rush of fans when they got money. It did jump at the time but that was because the stadium was redeveloped by Jack Walker which allowed for bigger attendances. Our attendance record didn't jump up during those years because of the money. As a matter of fact last season we had our third highest attendance figures since the foundation of the Premier League.

Also isn't the type of person you are talking about a glory hunter? Manchester United have always had money so they would get lots of those type of fans.

stovelid

eagle eye wrote: »

Blackburn never really got a rush of fans when they got money. Our attendance record didn't jump up during those years. As a matter of fact last season we had our third highest attendance figures since the foundation of the Premier League.

I distinctly remember quite a few short-lived Blackburn supporters in my locality at the time.

Incidentally, I wasn't knocking Blackburn supporters generally....the point was only a follow-on from the posters talking about a certain type of supporter here discarding certain clubs frequently.

OhNoYouDidn't

geeky wrote: »

Why do they deserve a loyalty that we don't give to, say, Sony or BMW?

Second person to make this analogy. If you can distill support for a club down to loyalty to a stero or car, you are not a fan.

OhNoYouDidn't

eagle eye wrote: »

Blackburn never really got a rush of fans when they got money. It did jump at the time but that was because the stadium was redeveloped by Jack Walker which allowed for bigger attendances. Our attendance record didn't jump up during those years because of the money. As a matter of fact last season we had our third highest attendance figures since the foundation of the Premier League.

Also isn't the type of person you are talking about a glory hunter? Manchester United have always had money so they would get lots of those type of fans.

He is talking about a type of Irish fan who jump from one team to another overseas depending on success.

At the time Blackburn were a major player, with Duff and a few other Irish players, they gained a lot of Irish fans. When they fell, those fans moved to Keegan's Newcastle, then O'Leary's Leeds, on to Chelsea and then SunderIreland and now many seem to have settled on Man City.

In other words, you don't see Blackburn or Newcastle shirts around Ireland any more, they used to be everywhere. Or, where have all the Sunderland fans of 3 years ago gone?

geeky

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Second person to make this analogy. If you can distill support for a club down to loyalty to a stero or car, you are not a fan.

My point is that many 'clubs' aren't run as football clubs any more. They're capitalist enterprises - PLCs or privately owned companies. Moreover, many of them treat their customers/fans with more contempt than any other type of company. It's hard to imagine that the incredible loyalty those fans have - laudable though it may be - has nothing to do with that.

I just think that, like in any heartfelt relationship, there comes a time when loyalty crosses the line into being a mug.

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Second person to make this analogy. If you can distill support for a club down to loyalty to a stero or car, you are not a fan.

Was a United fan from 1993-1999. Always had a grudging respect for West Ham. Went to Upton Park in 1999, my loyalties switched straight away. Never looked back, and it was one of the best decisions I have ever made.

I base my decision to defect on the grounds of something tangible and empirical. If you want to call me a turncoat, that is fine. However, I made it based on solid evidence that WHU are a more attractive proposition as a football club then MUFC (and I dont simply mean in terms of what goes on on the pitch).

In terms of the National League, I have never wavered in my support for Shelbourne's football team since 1994. However, I grew weary of the way the club was handled and the bandwaggoner brigade which is so prevalent in the National League.

OhNoYouDidn't

geeky wrote: »

My point is that many 'clubs' aren't run as football clubs any more. They're capitalist enterprises - PLCs or privately owned companies. Moreover, many of them treat their customers/fans with more contempt than any other type of company. It's hard to imagine that the incredible loyalty those fans have - laudable though it may be - has nothing to do with that.

I just think that, like in any heartfelt relationship, there comes a time when loyalty crosses the line into being a mug.

That has always been the way...

geeky

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

That has always been the way...

Not really, though - even the giants of football started as community organisations. People appear to think and talk about loyalty to a club as if they still were.

Some modern teams do give loads back to the community, and that's great. But some treat the communities that support them with utter contempt. If you started supporting a British club as a kid - for the various reasons that kids start supporting a given club - and you realise as you get older that 'your' team falls into the latter category, I think it's perfectly acceptable to drop them.

I'm not advocating switching from Real to Barca every other year depending on who's in the ascendancy, but realising that your team is owned/run by a gaggle of scumbags shouldn't necessarily stop you enjoying football to the fullest.

eagle eye

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

He is talking about a type of Irish fan who jump from one team to another overseas depending on success.

At the time Blackburn were a major player, with Duff and a few other Irish players, they gained a lot of Irish fans. When they fell, those fans moved to Keegan's Newcastle, then O'Leary's Leeds, on to Chelsea and then SunderIreland and now many seem to have settled on Man City.

Duff was not with Rovers when we had big money. The only Irish player there when we won the Premier League was Jeff Kenna. Well Shay Given was a relatively unknown young keeper at the time and 3rd choice at Rovers.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

In other words, you don't see Blackburn or Newcastle shirts around Ireland any more, they used to be everywhere. Or, where have all the Sunderland fans of 3 years ago gone?

I never seen Rovers shirts ever around Ireland.

The_Kew_Tour

I know a Wigan fan who has supported the club since age 7 in 1991.

When they got league cup semi final against Arsenal remember him wearing the Wigan jersey and few people calling him few words.

The_Kew_Tour

One thing I used to find funny was Liverpool fans calling Man United fans "Glory Hunters" back in 1990's.

Paul Tergat

I can't imagine not supporting United. Switching is just not an option at all.

SantryRed

adrian280582 wrote: »

I know a Wigan fan who has supported the club since age 7 in 1991.

When they got league cup semi final against Arsenal remember him wearing the Wigan jersey and few people calling him few words.

And these would be the same people who probably started supporting United or Pool because they were successful. I hate so many people in this country.

OhNoYouDidn't

eagle eye wrote: »

I never seen Rovers shirts ever around Ireland.

I have. Two friends of mine were fanatical Blackburn fans in the late 90's. Now one is Man United and the other Chelsea.

OhNoYouDidn't

geeky wrote: »

Not really, though - even the giants of football started as community organisations. People appear to think and talk about loyalty to a club as if they still were.

Ok, 120 years ago, most clubs were local clubs for local people. Nearly every professional club has been run ruthlessly for over 100 years.

geeky wrote: »

Some modern teams do give loads back to the community, and that's great. But some treat the communities that support them with utter contempt. If you started supporting a British club as a kid - for the various reasons that kids start supporting a given club - and you realise as you get older that 'your' team falls into the latter category, I think it's perfectly acceptable to drop them.

I don't disagree with that. An Irish fan picking essentially at random a foreign side has less loyalty or affinity than someone from that town or a LoI club, whether they will accept that or not

geeky wrote: »

I'm not advocating switching from Real to Barca every other year depending on who's in the ascendancy, but realising that your team is owned/run by a gaggle of scumbags shouldn't necessarily stop you enjoying football to the fullest.

As a Rovers fan with an affinity to Celtic, I couldn't hate the warcriminal and his cronies in the Celtic PLC more. They are downsizing the playing side, and worse, destroying the soul of the club. I haven't opened my wallet to them in years, and don't plan on doing so till them and their poppies are a distant memory. But that doesn't stop me being a fan or enjoying my football....

HyperSkypeWiper

Mate of mine a few weeks ago
"Liverpool are shít, I think i'll support Chelsea, they're unreal" :rolleyes:

geeky

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

As a Rovers fan with an affinity to Celtic, I couldn't hate the warcriminal and his cronies in the Celtic PLC more. They are downsizing the playing side, and worse, destroying the soul of the club. I haven't opened my wallet to them in years, and don't plan on doing so till them and their poppies are a distant memory. But that doesn't stop me being a fan or enjoying my football....

Does it not make watching Celtic somewhat bittersweet, though? If they do well, ultimately, it's entrenching the hold that a deeply objectionable group have on the club. If they do badly, it's a club you loved being run into the ground.

CiaranC

geeky wrote: »

I just think that, like in any heartfelt relationship, there comes a time when loyalty crosses the line into being a mug.

When that time comes, switch and follow someone else. Maybe a local club with a better ethos.

OhNoYouDidn't

geeky wrote: »

Does it not make watching Celtic somewhat bittersweet, though? If they do well, ultimately, it's entrenching the hold that a deeply objectionable group have on the club. If they do badly, it's a club you loved being run into the ground.

Bingo. But what I am not going to do is decide that Hearts are my Scottish club.

The_Kew_Tour

HyperSkypeWiper wrote: »

Mate of mine a few weeks ago
"Liverpool are shít, I think i'll support Chelsea, they're unreal" :rolleyes:

So he is guy to blame for Chelsea's poor run of form:D

Gavin "shels"

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Jazjus its a bloody sport, support who you want to ffs. Some people take it too seriously.

To you it's a sport, to many others around the world it's part of their life.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

This actually came up when Rovers were on deaths door. What will you do if Rovers go kaput? Some said they would barstool, some give up altogether, but interestingly most said it was off to watch Tallaght Town in the LSL...

No-one said they would pick up another LoI side.

Remember asking a few people that back when we were on life-support, don't think I remember anyone saying they'd support another LoI team, many said they'd just go to whatever games were in Dublin on a Friday night and a good few said they'd just follow the Shels AFL team.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Second person to make this analogy. If you can distill support for a club down to loyalty to a stero or car, you are not a fan.

+1

Wolfe Tone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Second person to make this analogy. If you can distill support for a club down to loyalty to a stero or car, you are not a fan.

Who are you to decide what constitutes a fan?

Bodhisopha

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

IMO its perfectly acceptable to switch teams. Most Irish people support foreign teams anyway, and most of this support was born out of "who was winning at the time." When your older you can take a deeper interest in the clubs etc and perhaps find a club that reflects your own values/interests better.

Players, managers, staff, owners all switch allegiance (for money), so when an whats wrong with a supporter swtiching for ideoligical/personal reasons? Of course the marketing machine pump out the idea of "club loyalty". But this loyalty is little more than loyalty to a "brand". You might as well be loyal to Sony or Phillips. Thats the reality of modern day football.


Personally I've never switched allegiance but I see absolutely no problem with people that do. At least it shows they have thought deeply enough about the issue and are prepared to make a conscious reasoned decision. I find that type of person at lot more interesting to talk to, than the in your face "till I die" type fans who's initial attraction to their club was based on childhood glory hunting.

Nail on the head, excellent post.

The idea that you are bound for life to a football club that you chose to support as a child and have no geographical connection to is stupid to me. You wouldn't stick with a childhood friend or a childhood sweetheart if they became thundering cúnts but you're willing to afford such unconditional love to a foreign brand? Madness.

Of course, if you can maintain the passion for one club then all the better but it doesn't make you less of a fan of football if you choose not to be a till i die, foaming at the mouth die-tard supporter of any particular club.

Having said that, people who claim to be Man United fanatics one season and Chelsea fanatics the next are clowns.

CiaranC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Who are you to decide what constitutes a fan?

Hes a fan.

Mr.Nice Guy

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Who are you to decide what constitutes a fan?

It's from 'The LOI fan handbook - how to be a football fan'. It's all in there.

Rule number 1 - always carry yourself with an undeserved sense of self-importance.

Rule number 2 - look down your nose at those who don't share your narrow view of the sport.

Rule number 3 - rage against the 'barstoolers'.

Rule number 4 - derail debates whenever possible (using the above).

Rule number 5 - bitch and moan about why no one likes your league (ignoring the above)

I was thinking of getting one for a LOI supporter I know. He does none of the above and just has a philosophy of live and let live, each to their own etc. so I figure he must be doing it all wrong.

Wolfe Tone

CiaranC wrote: »

Hes a fan.

CiaranC

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Rule number 2 - look down your nose at those who don't share your narrow view of the sport.

This is hilarious. Narrow view my hole, LOI fans are the same as normal football fans all over the world. Its the barstooler gob****es who are abnormal, not us. LOI fans view of football is not "narrow", its shared by ALL real football fans all over the world.

Back on topic, its perfectly allowable for any barstooler to change who he supports at any time. If selection of "his" team is completely arbitrarily made and not tied to any of the factors which normal fans use to pick a team, then what difference does it make if he changes it year on year?

Nalz

stop

DazMarz

I came very, very close last season (over an incident that happened at Stamford Bridge involving myself and a friend of mine) to ditching Chelsea totally. It was heartbreaking for me; I literally felt like I was going to lose a huge part of my life.

In absolute, blind anger I did say some things along the lines of "I hope Manchester-fúcking-United/Fúcking Arsenal/Manchester-fúcking-City [yes, I curse an awful lot] win the league now" and so on... but never would I support them. Sour grapes wanted me to see the owners and operators of the club suffer with the ignominy of losing.

But after some thought, some strongly worded letters, threats of legal action from the FSF and so on, I calmed down and my love for the Blues was 'fixed'.

That was the closest I ever came to ditching over 15 years of fandom. And I wouldn't have gone to support another team; I would simply have remained a football fan, but with neutrality in regards a team. But the love was too great and I simply could not have done without it.

As someone once said to me: "I think you love Chelsea more than me!"

My answer: "I love Man United more than you!":D