IMRA season 2011

nerraw1111

He's a boardsie. Get well soon dude.
Hopefully it's not too serious.

Didn't race tonight as I'm out of action with sprained ankle from imra race 2 weeks ago.

ElectraX

Get well soon Odhran! There was alot of potential on tonights terrain for going over on your ankle...ouch!Hopefully you're not still stuck in one of our super efficient A and E departments:rolleyes:

earlyevening

That explains why I saw the Mountian Rescue jeep flying along to the race area as I was going home.
Hope all is well...

donothoponpop

Get better soon Odhran, hope it's not too serious.

Timmaay wrote: »

http://www.imra.ie/forum/topic/id/2614/

I'm surprised it made it to the news ha. Unfortunate that it happened, but these are the risks of hill running!

Well done there Timmaay, its the week for maiden wins! Congrats on first place!

Stormer too from Mothman, to finish just behind GoHard. That bodes well for both your relays!

Mothman

That's rough Odhran. I wish you speedy recovery.

My ankle gave way about 5th way down...a big curse moment....took next couple minutes very carefully but managed to get back to full pace and the expected onslaught from behind never materialised...and I had GoHard worried at the end

On races with more technical decents I'll be slower on downhill but my asecnts are improving.

Looking forward to relay

Krusty_Clown

I see Moire O'Sullivan has released her book: Mud, Sweat, and Tears, an Irish Woman's Journey of Self Discovery... telling tales of the Wicklow Round.

In July 2008, Moire O’Sullivan made a solo attempt on the Wicklow Round, a gruelling endurance run spanning a hundred kilometres over twenty six of Ireland’s remotest mountain peaks. After twenty one and a half hours she collapsed, two summits from the end. Battered and bruised, yet undeterred, she returned a year later to become the first person ever to complete the Round in less than twenty four hours.

“Mud, Sweat, and Tears” is the first book to tell one woman’s story about her passion for mountain running, a passion that has brought her to the heights of some of Ireland’s most impressive mountains and to the depths of her own human limitations.

Sounds like a good read for those who have an interest in the scene, or running in general.

Dublin Wicklow MRT

earlyevening wrote: »

That explains why I saw the Mountian Rescue jeep flying along to the race area as I was going home.
Hope all is well...

The runner had injured his lower leg as described. Lots of our team members were participating in the race so we were able to give a quick response. The man was treated and assisted from the hillside to an ambulance - hopefully he'll make a full and speedy recovery.

Ar Strae

Jaysis...get better soon Odhran! I've been there in an IMRA race before and it really is amazing how much everyone helps you out..it's humbling.

Hope you're on the mend and back on the hills soon... one thing..I got the (free) physio with the Mater and found it to be pretty light and not really adequate to get back running..then I did a lot more targetted physio with Aidan in PearseStreetPhysio (no. I don't get anything for the plug! :-)) and it really helped.

Ro

groovyg

Odhran just posted a note on the imra forum and no broken ankle or fracture so thats good to hear.

Nem_e

Thanks for the well wishes guys,

I took a pretty nasty tumble coming down Brockagh last night, Foot slipped on the grass on the decent, went over on my left ankle and heard a nice crisp snap/crack regained balanced planted my right foot lifted my left leg to take the next stride had a moment of clarity and spectacularly dived for the dirt to skid 10/15 meters down the hill coming to rest in some lovely ferns.

The 3 guys following instantly stopped and provided assistance and from there the amount of help was amazing, posted a thank you on the IMRA forums listing them all. http://www.imra.ie/events/view/tab/forum/event/854/id/854/

Some of the Dublin Wicklow Mountain rescue guys where racing , they got to the scene quickly to provide assistance , The call was put out which had the Rescue Volunteers on the scene in no time and helping me off Brockagh, A great job done by them all and really appreciated.

X-Ray not showing any break or fracture , I’ve a lot of swelling around the ankle sprinkled with a heavy dose of pain, No idea of the extent of the soft tissue damage but have my fingers crossed.


I heard the news report on the radio aswell last night while i was waiting in A&E, i was busting to tell people that was me lol.

Odhran

Stark

From the IMRA forum: Moire O'Sullivan's book about her first adventures in mountain running and becoming the first person to complete the Wicklow Round: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/65468#longdescr . An inspiring read.

copacetic

(Super) Trooper wrote: »

X-Ray not showing any break or fracture , I’ve a lot of swelling around the ankle sprinkled with a heavy dose of pain, No idea of the extent of the soft tissue damage but have my fingers crossed.

I had a similar injury a couple of years back, ruptured ankle ligaments with a 'crack' sound. Took me 3-4 weeks to be walking properly and another 3-4 to get back into running. Didn't really get full motion back in the ankle for 6-8 months and a fair bit of physio. I'd say it was 18 months before it felt 'good' and is still a little oversized compared to the other one and gives the odd twinge still, but 95% good.

n-dawg

(Super) Trooper wrote: »

X-Ray not showing any break or fracture , I’ve a lot of swelling around the ankle sprinkled with a heavy dose of pain, No idea of the extent of the soft tissue damage but have my fingers crossed.

Similarly to copacetic I've also had that injury, mine was just that last grassy hill on Scarr (as you cut the corner around the road). Luckily I had some friends studying physio who took me under their wing. I had done a lot of tendon damage and it took maybe 6 weeks before i could walk without pain and maybe another 6 before I could run. It also sucked cause I couldn't get my foot into my cycling shoe because it had swelled up so much.

For me the best was putting it in freezing water (Ice and salt) followed by hot water and repeating. Apparently it gets the blood flowing around the damaged area. The other thing that is a must (after a few weeks when the pain is gone) is a balance board... I used to use it when ever I was cooking, watching TV, eating breakfast and it did wonders for my ankle strength. I got it in physio needs in Irishtown. My last piece of advice would be not to tape up your ankle... I found that I lost the feeling of what the ground under my foot was like and would over rely on the tape to protect me (Which sometimes it doesn't do).

Get well soon, be patient and you will come back stronger then ever

GoHardOrGoHome

Mothman wrote: »

That's rough Odhran. I wish you speedy recovery.

My ankle gave way about 5th way down...a big curse moment....took next couple minutes very carefully but managed to get back to full pace and the expected onslaught from behind never materialised...and I had GoHard worried at the end

On races with more technical decents I'll be slower on downhill but my asecnts are improving.

Looking forward to relay

You certainly did. I was panicking because my legs wouldn't move fast enough and I was worried that not only you but another five people would over take me.

I counted 9 people coming against me as we neared the top (not counting the early starters) then there was a group of 5 or 6 of us who all arrived at the same time. All of these proceeded to overtake me on the descent which was chaotic and enormous fun and not a little dangerous! Couple of orienteers went by without much trouble.

Mike Long overtook me on the fire road and that's when my stride seemed to get shorter or my leg turnover slowed down. I felt like I was hardly moving at all with Mothman bearing down on me. Thankfully I passed the line before him. Phew!

Met ElectraX! There's probably loads of IMRA runners on Boards these days!

Slogger Jogger

Great event yesterday. Awesome race by Rathfarnham. Very well done guys. Well done to Padraig in particular on leg 6. Great to return a year after to put things right. Lots of post event banter on the events thread just in case you haven't seen it...

brianomullain

Apologies may have been the wrong thread earlier!
Not wanting to be a pissant but having met the one and only John L up Carrauntoohil on Saturday around 3pm, after a rake of pints from a stag (me not him!) and still done a round trip in less than 1.40 (me not him!!, he'd have done it 10mins quicker!!), i can't but think about the fact we're at least 13 minutes behind his record, i.e. (85mins on the new course) 72mins on the old course, (sorry Jason)!!! And this is with all the surgical "Lydiard" type stuff i'm reading about recently, no offence Rene, great blog. Suddenly i log on and a Wicklow Way Relay record has been broken by a few road runners (Rathfarnham need to compete with An Riocht, Leevale and a few others more often methinks!) and we're all patting ourselves on the back.

Then i see an ebook, an excellent read mind you (fair play Moire (no such thing as bad publicity), but methinks IMRA frowned upon advertising/self publicity/sponsorship over the past few years and suddenly it seems ok, shock horror!

When we in Ireland can win a Sierre Zinal or a Skaala Opp or at least be placed in them I will settle but at present are we not praising mediocracity (no disrepect to any of those that have won races this year, written books, ran books that should have been written etc.., i just dont want the sport to slip into happycamper mode!!!!) or are we starting to support the easy records.

Why not do a record of Bray Head to Bray Head (Porters have shown the way, Wicklow to Valentia, makes the Wicklow Round seem like a Teddybears picnic!), Tralee to Brandon less than 4hrs, Kates to Cahirciveen less than 8hrs, Errigal to Donard less than 8hrrs, Nephin to Maumachoige, never done!

In short, we were great once with the singleminded dedication of a Kerryman, why not be great again??? I'm sick of reading about Jebby this, Hopey that and Jornet everything else, we have the talent i reckon let's use it!!!!

Anyone?? I expect this comment to be torn to shreads but at least it will stimulate a few ideas perhaps?!

Yours in hope.

Brian

Peterx

The beauty of it is that we have the legend Lenihan to benchmark against, the pity is we are not all former world champions. Some do strive to be fitter, faster, stronger and some are happy to run around and enjoy the pub conviviality afterwards.
In a small country in a small niche sport all standards have to be accomodated and I would like to agree with you that IMRA is a happy clappy inclusive association and that's a good thing.
The other thing is that the IMRA committee love the passion and if you are not a pissant troll and of course you may be with such a strong first post then they will only too delighted to accept proposals from any member with regard to organising races.
I sadly have to agree that we not running to the heights Lenihan and Bryson reached but I prefer to think it's fantastic to have their benchmark to aspire to.
Jason's time on Carantoohill may be slower than Lenihan's but nobody who was there can doubt his (Jason's) commitment, bravery and very fine example of how to improve your talent with dedicated training, surely a good thing?

Raighne

brianomullain wrote: »

Apologies may have been the wrong thread earlier!
Not wanting to be a pissant but having met the one and only John L up Carrauntoohil on Saturday around 3pm, after a rake of pints from a stag (me not him!) and still done a round trip in less than 1.40 (me not him!!, he'd have done it 10mins quicker!!), i can't but think about the fact we're at least 13 minutes behind his record, i.e. (85mins on the new course) 72mins on the old course, (sorry Jason)!!! And this is with all the surgical "Lydiard" type stuff i'm reading about recently, no offence Rene, great blog. Suddenly i log on and a Wicklow Way Relay record has been broken by a few road runners (Rathfarnham need to compete with An Riocht, Leevale and a few others more often methinks!) and we're all patting ourselves on the back.

Then i see an ebook, an excellent read mind you (fair play Moire (no such thing as bad publicity), but methinks IMRA frowned upon advertising/self publicity/sponsorship over the past few years and suddenly it seems ok, shock horror!

When we in Ireland can win a Sierre Zinal or a Skaala Opp or at least be placed in them I will settle but at present are we not praising mediocracity (no disrepect to any of those that have won races this year, written books, ran books that should have been written etc.., i just dont want the sport to slip into happycamper mode!!!!) or are we starting to support the easy records.

Why not do a record of Bray Head to Bray Head (Porters have shown the way, Wicklow to Valentia, makes the Wicklow Round seem like a Teddybears picnic!), Tralee to Brandon less than 4hrs, Kates to Cahirciveen less than 8hrs, Errigal to Donard less than 8hrrs, Nephin to Maumachoige, never done!

In short, we were great once with the singleminded dedication of a Kerryman, why not be great again??? I'm sick of reading about Jebby this, Hopey that and Jornet everything else, we have the talent i reckon let's use it!!!!

Anyone?? I expect this comment to be torn to shreads but at least it will stimulate a few ideas perhaps?!

Yours in hope.

Brian

Lot's of points to talk to here, but let me start by clarifying a few points on the "surgical" Lydiard type system since I've taken it upon myself to be one of the prime advocates of it in Ireland and want to ensure its properly understood.

The Lydiard system does not promise you quick results. It's not something new either (having originated in the 60s). It takes at least three years for the system to showcase an athletes full potential and likely more than that and all of these years involve significant training levels. To give you an example unless you can run, not jog, 90 minutes comfortably, I do not even start runners on this system. We build them up to that fitness level first and then start the actual program.

Where it is "surgical" is only in the sense that we train through unimportant events and peak, both training-wise and taper-wise, for important events. This doesn't transform a runner from back of the field to world-breaker in a few weeks (that can only happen over years) but it does mean a runner will be the best they can currently be on the day that matters.

To gauge a performance you need to consider the context and improvement year on year. Not even the best training system can turn a contender into a world champion in one year. This takes years of patient aerobic development which again requires discipline and hard work. John Lenihan, whom Jason and myself had the great pleasure of sharing a run with ( http://www.mudsweatandtears.co.uk/2011/05/05/the-man-from-glanageenty/), has run and been active since his childhood and he trained hard on top of that. Similar backgrounds categorise Joss Naylor and other fell-running greats.

Most of the runners I train with do not have such manual labour backgrounds and took up running in their late twenties (or returned after decade long breaks from the sport), so even if they have talent comparable to John's it would take longer to get to John's level (their age may not even make it entirely feasible, particularly as hard training get's harder as you age, but they can get close).

I don't advocate complacency or "settling for mediocrity" to runners in my coaching group, but you can't skip steps on the ladder and you have to celebrate the victories along the way. Running is hard and unforgiving enough as it is. If you are not a Carrauntoohil winner one year and you are one next year, that's cause for celebration especially when won against a competitive field on the day. This doesn't mean we lack the ambition to look to the next stage of development (we always do).

Many more points to deal with here, but work calls this morning so I am sure the community will be happy to continue where I left off.

Enduro

brianomullain wrote: »

Suddenly i log on and a Wicklow Way Relay record has been broken by a few road runners (Rathfarnham need to compete with An Riocht, Leevale and a few others more often methinks!) and we're all patting ourselves on the back.

Get your facts straight there bud. You appear not to have a clue what your talking about.

brianomullain wrote: »

Then i see an ebook, an excellent read mind you (fair play Moire (no such thing as bad publicity), but methinks IMRA frowned upon advertising/self publicity/sponsorship over the past few years and suddenly it seems ok, shock horror!

What are you talking about? What point are you trying to make here? What exactly do you think should / shouldn't be happening?

brianomullain wrote: »

When we in Ireland can win a Sierre Zinal or a Skaala Opp or at least be placed in them I will settle but at present are we not praising mediocracity (no disrepect to any of those that have won races this year, written books, ran books that should have been written etc.., i just dont want the sport to slip into happycamper mode!!!!) or are we starting to support the easy records.

I hope you've got your entry in for those races so that you can show us all how to rise above the mediocaty that the rest of us a wallowing in. I look forward to seeing you standing on the podium as the national anthem is played. Do us proud!

brianomullain wrote: »

Why not do a record of Bray Head to Bray Head (Porters have shown the way, Wicklow to Valentia, makes the Wicklow Round seem like a Teddybears picnic!), Tralee to Brandon less than 4hrs, Kates to Cahirciveen less than 8hrs, Errigal to Donard less than 8hrrs, Nephin to Maumachoige, never done!

Let us know your PBs for those, and if I feel I can match up to your standard I might attempt to get close to them (unless I'm feeling too happy clappy at the time).

Also, are you being just a little, shall we say, inconsistant here. You think that a 18+ hour run like the Wicklow round is a teddybear's picnic, but you think we should all be trying to do much much shorter runs like Tralee to Brandon, Kates to Cahirciveen etc etc. Are you sure your own happy pills haven't gone to your head.

brianomullain wrote: »

In short, we were great once with the singleminded dedication of a Kerryman, why not be great again??? I'm sick of reading about Jebby this, Hopey that and Jornet everything else, we have the talent i reckon let's use it!!!!

I find the "we" part of that interesting. Can you let us know the part you played in making us "great". Also can you pinpoint exactly who you're referring to when you say that "we" have the talent, apart from yourself.

brianomullain wrote: »

Anyone?? I expect this comment to be torn to shreads but at least it will stimulate a few ideas perhaps?!
Brian

Well, it's stimulated the idea in my head that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Stark

brianomullain wrote: »

Why not do a record of Bray Head to Bray Head (Porters have shown the way, Wicklow to Valentia, makes the Wicklow Round seem like a Teddybears picnic!), Tralee to Brandon less than 4hrs, Kates to Cahirciveen less than 8hrs, Errigal to Donard less than 8hrrs, Nephin to Maumachoige, never done!

Any muppet can get a record by picking random town names off the map of Ireland and hoping that no-one fast decides to come along afterwards and give Ballydehob to Craggy Island or whatever a go. Are most of those routes not on road anyway? What relevance to they have to mountain running other than some of them starting/finishing at mountains? I might try setting a new record for running from my office to the start of a particular IMRA race next week. Much easier than winning the actual race.

ocnoc

brianomullain wrote: »

I'm sick of reading about Jebby this, Hopey that and Jornet everything else, we have the talent i reckon let's use it!!!

Rob Jebb, Rob Hope and Killian Jornet are all top class athletes.

I would relish racing against any of them in unmarked open Irish mountain....

However, knocking the cream of Irelands current crop is not that bright a move. You say they are crap and aren't up to standard.
Follow any of them around for a week and say that they all aren't trying to raise their game to the next level. You would probably be close to horrified if you realised the sheer amount of time and commitment that amateur athletes put in for the love of the sport.

IMRA has people battling out for the win, yet if you look at the results, the M40 in 22nd position is complaining that he can't squeeze into the top 20... The competitiveness is filtering all through IMRA across all age classes, some want to win, some want top 20, some want to be within 150%...Hell we even have 3 M70's that are willing to run themselves into the ground.
So yes, IMRA is happy clappy, but its also highly competitive and social.

Where else can I go into a pub post race and chat to Joe Bloggs, only to find out that Joe Bloggs was actually the Joe Bloggs that was wrapped in a bivy bag taking numbers at some far check point a few hours previous, where else can I talk with a burning passion about the fine art of throwing myself off a mountain and for people to understand that I am not crazy but am in fact trying to prefect an art.

The Legends and Records exist to inspire the next group of athletes to raise the bar...
Would Paul Tierney have pushed himself as much if Eoin didn't set an unbreakable record??
All you need is one athlete to break it before the dam bursts and all the records begin to fall...

Noone could complete a sub 24hr Round... Moire completes it.... within a month, 5 more had completed it.

John Leinhans record on Carrauntoohil is very impressive. It hasn't been gotten close to in a few years, that doesn't mean it will stand forever.

It'll take one person to break 85, then 80, then 75, then 72....
Just because we're not there now doesn't mean the bar isn't slowly rising again. 2 runners went sub 90 last year, this year 10 runners went sub 90. You put 10 runners, all highly motivated and all wanting to win and the standard will rise. Give it time. Results don't come over night.

Records are there to be broken. It will fall. Do not knock the motivated runners in IMRA. You dis runners at your pearl.

Ar Strae

Stark wrote: »

I might try setting a new record for running from my office to the start of a particular IMRA race next week.

Absolutely...and in order to ensure that we don't sink into mediocrity or Happy Camperness I'm going to rock up at your office and try to beat your record to the start of that IMRA race

bazman

John Lenihan was and still is a savage, but there are a few things to know about that record:
- it was on a course that didn't have the impossible concrete descent
- old course is completely different and less technical course than the new route (even if distances are comparable)
- John ran a different route to everyone else back in the day as he knew the mountain so well, making actual aerobic ability comparisons difficult

John is a sub-64 minute half marathoner - very impressive and a true benchmark for comparison. We probably have 5 people in Ireland capable of breaking 64, but we are not going to get them to run Carrauntoohil anytime soon. John and Robbie are unique in being fantastic talents who chose mountains over roads - some day a runner with similar talents will come along and with similar motivation for the mountains and break the records.

'We' have been close in recent years. John Brooks was only 4 minutes off the record and we have people now who are at least comparable to John B.

The current course is a lot more technical than the old course, meaning it's unlikely to get a time to match John's record. To break that record you really need to be able to stretch your legs. On the old course, sub-4 kms are possible and sub-3 on final road section. On the new sub-5 kms are good. From my running of course this year, I know I sub-50 ascent is possible by the current flock. Sub-28 descent is also possible, based on Stephen Cleary's time. So i reckon a sub-80 is well achieveable and will happen soon, but 72 on the new course would be difficult to beat even by the best in the world.

ocnoc

bazman wrote: »

To break that record you really need to be able to stretch your legs. On the old course, sub-4 kms are possible and sub-3 on final road section. On the new sub-5 kms are good. From my running of course this year, I know I sub-50 ascent is possible by the current flock. Sub-28 descent is also possible, based on Stephen Cleary's time. So i reckon a sub-80 is well achieveable and will happen soon, but 72 on the new course would be difficult to beat even by the best in the world.

I agree sub 50 is possible. It was the time that came to mind when I finished last year.
Stephen Cleary is a class descender, very aggressive, very technically skilled, light on his feet. 28 is a good time, I believe 25 is doable. With full commitment, it surely is. I had my worst descent ever in any mountain/orienteering race ever last year and I clocked 33, call me crazy but I believe 23 is doable if you hit every right line on the way down, the mountain will just give way to pure aggressive descending.

Climb in 49, drop in 23... Theirs your 72. Once sub 75 is achieved, once people believe it is possible, then the record will fall.

If it wasn't difficult, none of us would be trying now would we

robroy1234

I think that focussing on times and records is not at all useful in respect that Mountain Running like cross country running can vary due to terrain, conditions, and other variables. Unlike running on the track or road, the distance can vary due to landslip, and difficulty can be enhanced by path erosion or overgrowth.

John Lenihan is a legend.

brianomullain

Wow. Just logged on and firstly, lashings of apologies all round, never meant to dis anyone, just had a question in my head after meeting John as to why his record was so far ahead of the past few years races.

Believe me as many of the lads here on this forum flew past my wheezing body at Carrauntoohil i could appreciate just how hard they were trying and how much better than me they were! Lots of training and dedication.

Mental note to self, never ever log on to the forum on a Sunday night after a few pints.

Again sincerest apologies all round.

Skulks to the corner like a whipped dog, deservedly so!

Brian

robroy1234

Don't beat yourself up Brian.....I can do that for you instead...ha ha only kidding. Courses change as well as conditions and sometimes as with Croagh Patrick you have to deal with walkers etc., So like cross country running each race is different so times can be quite irrelevent.

ElectraX

Great race at Tibradden tonight, really well organised; even down to the arrows pointing people where to go at the registration area. You can take for granted that the sign in area is straight forward enough once you are familiar with it but I think it definitely pays off for the race organisers to make things blatantly obvious sometimes:D

Just one gripe...a handful of people did not complete the full course tonight. I'd never want to accuse anyone of purposely cheating...but what rationalisation can there be behind not bothering with the loop of fairy castle and just turning back at the last junction(ok I am going to accuse them of cheating because it was blatantly obvious at that point that you should continue on up to fairy castle, sure you can see people up ahead of you still climbing, or else see the descending runners coming from the left.
I know a couple of other runners apparently reached the trig point on FC and just ran back down the same way, which again cuts a nice little bit off the run. Now maybe that was accidental but I personally thought the route was well marked at the top, and the majority had no problem going the right way.

This was being openly discussed in the pub tonight by a few people who were p*ssed off by it,so knowing that alot of the organisers are regulars on this thread I though it was no harm raising it.
I don't even know who the runners were, and even if I did, I have no interest in being involved in some naming/shaming campaign. I think something like this only needs to be taken very seriously if it happens at the top of the field, affecting prizes or league standings,which isn't the case here.It's just not particularly fair on people who slogged their way around the whole course and know that their position(even if they are middle to back of the field runners) isn't properly reflected because someone else decided to cut their run short by over a kilometre.
The course was more than adequately marshalled and marked. I guess there has to be an element of trust in all these races.Luckily it's only a minority who diregard that.

Only complaint on what was otherwise a great night, and btw thumbs up for the random spot prizes.5 in 1 kitchen appliances and camping stools make way more entertaining prizes than chocolates and bottles of wine:D

Slogger Jogger

Agree that it was a very well organised event. Thanks to Peterx and his crew. Sorry I couldn't make the pub but thats what happens when the pub is in the opposite travel direction to home.

You can only have so many marshalls. Trust plays a huge part, so if some people didn't run the entire route thats down to them and their conscience. There might be an innocent explanation for some of what you saw. I passed some runners on the route who were not part of the race, but just out on the mountain for their run. Also, if you were in the race and got an injury it might have been easier to do an about turn and run back the same way.

I think some of the early starters though are taking the p***. Some of them are half my age. They should be capable of running at the 7.30 start. Its like they started at 7 because it was convenient for them. It doesn't help the organisers if you have too many doing the early start as it makes the race logistics a bit more hassled. The capable early starters have a clear run at the route, without the congestion the rest of us get. Not very sporting really.

Peterx

I'm not so sure if some of the cheaters were actually cheating, many IMRA runners haven't a fecking notion of where they are at any time in any race.
Ask Bazman about the 4 different runners who were all convinced they should have gone right towards Kilmashogue as opposed to left back over to Tibradden despite maps at sign-on, race descriptions, other runners ahead of them, copious amounts of marking tape AND a marshall in the shape of Baza...
In saying that you get cheating bastiches everywhere!

I love the randomness of the prizes too ElectraX
I once got a set of LIDL bungee cords for winning Galteemore:p