IMRA season 2011

bazman

Slogger Jogger you ageist Age has nothing to do with speed. The last 2 runners in the main race were about 25ish.

As a marshall I was delighted to see early starters - sometimes painful to be waiting up the hills for a walker. That said, there will always be slow people in the main race. Ideally official early start at 7 and cut-off disqualification to main race for safety reasons (and marshall sanity). I did manage to get in stretching and a good few calf raises while I was hanging around, so it wasn't all a waste of time.

As Peter was saying - very funny to be arguing with runners regarding route home - several were convinced I was sending people on a second loop to the top - should have let them off down to Three rock pub

Re people taking short-cuts - if they had any respect for fellow athletes, they should DNF themselves at the bottom. This is impossible to marshall. IMRA depend on honesty of athletes - it's often all to easy to take a short-cut. As for just turning around mid-way during a race - crazy - just not acceptable unless for safety/injury reasons & that should automatically be DNF ...

Just to add - majority of people seemed to be really surprised by the length of this race - perhaps we need equivalent flat distance? e.g. last night was similar effort to 15km road run. Of course, perhaps people just don't read website ...

Stark

bazman wrote: »

Slogger Jogger you ageist Age has nothing to do with speed. The last 2 runners in the main race were about 25ish.

I don't think those were the people SJ was referring to. I did notice a lot of young fit (and fast) looking people coming against me just as I was coming down off Tibradden and onto the Wicklow Way. Not exactly a great boost to confidence when you start thinking "oh ****, the lead runners have been to the top and down already". It was the same problem on Scarr where it felt like you were about 20 places down on your usual position due to the number of early starters coming down off the mountain in front of you. It's only fair that you should know who you're racing against. It wasn't a problem back when the early starters were the people who were obviously slower than the main field.

bazman wrote:

Just to add - majority of people seemed to be really surprised by the length of this race - perhaps we need equivalent flat distance? e.g. last night was similar effort to 15km road run. Of course, perhaps people just don't read website ...

I'd estimate a 13km road run based on my road times. Not significantly off the advertised distance of 11.2km (Tibradden's a flattish route). I think people just didn't read the website. I heard people in the pub afterwards making the comment "That felt way longer than 8k".

Ar Strae

Great race last night...really enjoyed it. My best result in the LL so far this year. All runnable, nice undulating course. Surprised to hear of people taking shortcuts, the course was very well marked and marshalled. Possibly with the absence of a marshall at the Trig point (but everyone I could see in front of me went up, touched it and went around, no cutting the corners!) but if they want to cheat and cut corners there's no real way to stop them.

A couple of nasty knocks and spills though...two people face-planted in front of me (I wasn't involved!) and I saw Diarmaid O Colmain(?) with a t- shirt saturated with blood at the end of the race? Looked like a nasty gash on his head and on his arm...and he didn't DNF...GET in!

I don't think there's much point putting the equivalent road distance on the website, I reckon it's too vague and also the sort of people who don't pay attention to the profile, route description, length of the route etc are the same people who won't bother looking at the equivalent road distance.

Fair play to the marshalls and volunteers last night..that was midge and fly HELL out there!

And yeah whoever the first early starter was? He was really taking the p*ss :-)

But I think it can be handled with a quiet word to any crazy-fast early start runners. It's not fair on the laptop operators

7 races done! Woohoo...now the inexorable slide down the league table as more and more people get their 7 in :-)

Ro

nerraw1111

Didn't make race last night, ankle is just about recovered so didn't want to risk it on that looooong course. Great route though, love it.

Not sure how people went wrong on the route as it's one of the easiest routes to figure out from the map alone, based on the amazingly straight , Nazca type lines.

Some of the early starters look to be having a laugh. At Glasnamullen, there were strong runners coming down before the top 30 had reached the turn off. That shouldn't be happening.

It also skews the result when you don't know who you're racing against. For me, IMRA is about places rather than time, and you chase everyone down.

You can't chase an early starter who then might magically appear in front of in the results page.

On some courses, an early starter would have a huge advantage as they avoid bunching/bottle necks and have clear descents. Overtaking is not a problem etc. It's a race, not a time trial.

Should start doling out some DQs for persistent offenders if their time is faster than 160% of the winning time. Not that it's a big problem


I've only 3 races done so far in LL. Can't make next week due to a five-day endurance event so need to make every single race thereafter.

PositiveNegativ

IMRAs volunteer culture is great, probably one of the associations strongest assets. However there is a downside, high turn over of race 'officials' results in a lack of corporate memory.

Five or six years back the same early starter debate sprang up resulting it early starts being dropped for Wednesday nights. Something I strongly supported then (following a very near-miss on a downhill) and would urge again now.

Ar Strae

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Can't make next week due to a five-day endurance event

Yeah..work is a bitch isn't it? If only we could find a way to bin it

nerraw1111

Ar Strae wrote: »

Yeah..work is a bitch isn't it? If only we could find a way to bin it

Close. It's actually Glastonbury Similar kit actually. Nuun tablets, hydration salts, camelbak, tent, silly hat, map, foil blankets, planned food and drink stops.

ElectraX

I agree with you Peterx that some of the people who cut their run short last night were not intentionally cheating, some people don't have a clue where they are going and just follow runners and I think the increase of numbers in the early start isn't helping this.
A few of those seen coming back down off fairy castle instead of doing the loop last night were early starters, and they were all running one after the other so very possibly it was just a case of the blind leading the blind. The person at the front of the group goes wrong and they all follow. This is probably a case of a number of the early starters being very new to Imra and therefore not familiarising themselves with routes and race markings, and because they are running ahead of the main race there is more room for error.
Definitely though some people just seem to see the early start as a second race time option because they want to get home earlier and that's something that needs to get stamped out. Maybe the fast early starters who are coming in over the 160% consistently should be told that the races where they come in over that percentage won't count towards their 7 races in the league.
A very good attempt was made to capture all the early starters last night and I think most of them were recorded but there are a couple of results in Brockagh that were definitely early starters that have suddenly jumped from 170% + to 120% because they are down as having run in the main race.Bad form that they have said nothing if they have checked their result.

former

I was one of the early starters last night. This was my sixth race this year and my results up 'till then were 158-181%.

It's hard to know before the race how it's going to go and in the event last night I had a good result - 158%.

There seems to be two schools of thought on this subject - the organisers generally encourage early starters before the race. I'm sure we'll see this again in Sorrell Hill and Seefingan.

It might be better if this subject were raised on the IMRA forum to get more people's point of view.

Timmaay

ElectraX wrote: »

A very good attempt was made to capture all the early starters last night and I think most of them were recorded but there are a couple of results in Brockagh that were definitely early starters that have suddenly jumped from 170% + to 120% because they are down as having run in the main race.Bad form that they have said nothing if they have checked their result.

Prehaps this idea would be just making work for ourselves, but what if all earlier starters had to wear an armband, or a 2nd racebib that was a bright colour, something to distinguish them from the main race runners. That way, when all normal runners are out on the course they can ignore any early starters in terms of placing, and the rule would be that all early starters have to give way to anyone part of the main race. At the finish, the person on the laptop can spot the early starters straight away also.

Maybe this is adding more complexity to the races, which realistically is not what you want, but the option Brian suggested of dropping the early start will not work for longer races where the marshals have to stay out on the course far too long waiting for the last people to come in.

The other option is to push the short course more, and try to get anyone who is usually over the 180% to do the short course.

Stark

El Presidente has spoken on this:

http://www.imra.ie/news/view/id/526/

There are a number of people taking the early start option that do not need to. Too many early starts can cause safety issues on the mountain, and also issues for recording times at the finish. To discourage people from taking the early start when they do not need to, we are introducing the 160% rule. You should only take the early start if your time is greater than 160% of the winning time. When the winning time is known, any early starts whose time is faster than 160% of the winning time will have their time adjusted to 160% of the winning time.

robroy1234

Well Done to Ian Conroy in winning the European Trial, as well as the other lads getting into the team. It was a good run for all, and look towards us in Mayo for the World trials - we be looking to get a good team out for it now that Roger Barrett is looking strong for the hills.

jlang

Another great Leinster Championship race today at Mullaghcleevaun but again very few running so I got to both lead and bring up the rear for the Boards team. I was angry with myself for dropping a place at the finish with non-optimal route selection off the final hill (My planned route seemed reasonable based on observation on the way up but it turned out it was a rubbish plan!).

With the numbers on Wednesdays huge again this year and most people seeming to rate the more mountain-y races higher, I don't understand why so few runners come to these races. Perhaps the Wednesday race directors might put a plug for the following weekend's race in their pre-race or awards speech?

Peterx

marking tape on a Wednesday, less commitment on a Wednesday, closer to Dublin on a Wednesday and also marketed as feasible for all, all on a Wednesday. Life and other events tend to not clash on a Wednesday.

Forum posts with long explanations of all the places you could get horribly lost does not make for 237 runners on a Sunday.

The weekend races are a different vibe to the Wednesdays and long may it continue, as an association imra caters for nearly all sorts. 3 lads on 100% tells me a great race was had.

PositiveNegativ

That was the most fun I've had in a hill race in a good few years. So what did I learn yesterday?

The difference between 'sloppy' and 'splashy' can be precisely defined.

Running all the way up Mullaghcleevaun might sound impressive, but didn't look so great when Zoran just shrugged his shoulders and walked right past me.

Bernard and Christmas are both still inevitable. He didn't join the leading pack until half way up Black Hill on the return leg, from where he then applied his race winning descent.

And of course route choice in hill races is king.

Slogger Jogger

On a cycle today I turned up the hill at the Dying Cow near Stranakelly, which to those who run leg 8 on the wwr is where runners divert from the ww and head straight. This hill is short and tough. My cycle brought me around this less travellled part of the ww, before I looped back to Shillelagh and home. It occurs to me that very few people will have ventured on this part of the Wicklow way. Checking the map I see theres c. 25k from Stranakelly to the end at Clonegal. Its 90% road, but the undulating hills give it more variety that you'd think. And theres a lot of accumulating climb there even if the max height is less than 400m. I plan doing a run along the route to see of its potential for a point to point race or potential to add additional legs (2 perhaps) to the wwr to keep Rathfarnham away for a sub 7 hour total I'll report back...

ThisRegard

It's been fairly quiet this week around here, people must still be recovering from the deep puddles and bog from Wednesday, I think the conditions were much tougher than last year. I sustained my worse injury so far, a nasty gash on my shin when I slipped on a rock just before the climb to the summit. It's in a real annoying place in that every time I flex my muscle around my shin it stretches the wound causing a stab of pain. It had better be fine by Wednesday, I need to do all the remaining races to get my 7 in.

ocnoc

Peterx wrote: »

3 lads on 100% tells me a great race was had.

What about 2 lads on the exact same time!!

Speak Peterx, speak! Tell all. About time IMRA heated up a wee bit.

Who got caught? Who had it in the bag only to be caught on the line!
Raging I didn't see it. It would have been class!

Well done anyways. Savage running.

donothoponpop

Wow, those finisher's are getting closer and closer! Well done Tom and Peter!

What the hell, thirstywork2 getting third place, in a mucky hill race?!? Is it too early to start poaching for the WWR12?

Mothman

My ankle gave way again. Hobbled for about a quarter of race and was going so slow on stony downhill that an early starter overtook me:eek: and this after she stopped to let me by on an easier part

There was someone much worse off at the very top of Seefingan...looked like ankle as well... so I won't dwell on my issues any longer

Awesome race at the front :eek:

Slogger Jogger

Great race. I thought I ran well but my time was down on last year a few mins. Course was slightly longer.. last year we didn't go to the Cairn, but turned at the pole marking the summit I think. Is it ever dry up there

I think the guys opted to cross the line together? One more good result for Tom and thats the LL I think.

Peterx

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/95753553

Tom had it in the bag but the final left turn on the fireroad was mis marked sending him out away from the finish. I called him back and we jogged in the last 200m together. He would have won by at least 10 seconds so gets the win.
Great race, Kevin was surging into the lead in the first two km, the hills happened and we compressed up again, Tom, Kevin and me went across to Corrig together and most of the way up Seefingan together. I think Tom and me got a bit of a gap and then Tom followed my every step down Seefingan, this was not in my plan as I needed to be making time on the descents!
Tom got a gap of a few seconds on the final climb, I got back ahead and got a few seconds on the last descent, we hit the fireroad and I burst myself trying to convince both of us I can run fast. Tom however knows he can run fast and duly ran fast past me into a good lead of about 10 seconds whereupon the last turn happened.
Kevin meanwhile was having great fun coming back from 5th/6th into 3rd with strong finishing on the aforementioned poxy fireroad after a full bath in an innocent looking puddle:)
Great race, up there with the Dunshaughlin 10K in terms of all over enjoyment. Long though for a Wednesday..

thirstywork2

Last minute decision to run tonight and glad I did.Learned alot tonight,need more work on the uphills and need to practise my swimming After loosing my balance trying to overtake Enduro on his inside I was in a pool of mucky water.

lads up front where class on the uphills,my back just tightened up badly but even at that I was struggling.
Had a very good descent and manged to pick it up on the fire roads.

Regarding the same time(too far back to see but)Peter said Tom had him on the fireroads but took a wrong turn,in fairness to Peter he should be given an award for sportmanship by calling him back and the two lads ran in together.

Peterx beats me for the second time tonight

Slogger Jogger

@Peter. As you say a proper hill race. Where is ocnoc when you need him

T runner

Peterx wrote: »

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/95753553

Tom had it in the bag but the final left turn on the fireroad was mis marked sending him out away from the finish. I called him back and we jogged in the last 200m together. He would have won by at least 10 seconds so gets the win.
Great race, Kevin was surging into the lead in the first two km, the hills happened and we compressed up again, Tom, Kevin and me went across to Corrig together and most of the way up Seefingan together. I think Tom and me got a bit of a gap and then Tom followed my every step down Seefingan, this was not in my plan as I needed to be making time on the descents!
Tom got a gap of a few seconds on the final climb, I got back ahead and got a few seconds on the last descent, we hit the fireroad and I burst myself trying to convince both of us I can run fast. Tom however knows he can run fast and duly ran fast past me into a good lead of about 10 seconds whereupon the last turn happened.
Kevin meanwhile was having great fun coming back from 5th/6th into 3rd with strong finishing on the aforementioned poxy fireroad after a full bath in an innocent looking puddle:)
Great race, up there with the Dunshaughlin 10K in terms of all over enjoyment. Long though for a Wednesday..

Great run. It wasn't mismarked enough to put you wrong though!

Youre too generous! I would have waited until i reached the junction before shouting and if he was still too close maybe stop at the junction for 10 secs get the breath back and then holler.

A quick recce of the last k or so is available and advisable for everyone. The only excuse for going wrong there is if your judgement is impaired by a competitor breathing down your neck and that error should cost you the race i reckon.

Super racing over the course by the sounds of it.

Sport101

Wow, that long bog run before the last peak (and after) was unbelievably energy sapping, found it difficult to get a rhythm back afterwards. Toughest race of the wednesday races by a good bit, and whoever decided there was a need for a final hill before the finish is a cruel ba*tard!

nerraw1111

Tough race last night but just about enjoyable. Great evening for it with fantastic views.

I had a decent outing and managed to pace it ok. The ground between Seehan and Seefingan was so energy sapping, at one stage I thought I was going to bonk. Lovely descents though.

Great little battles in the group I was in with positions constantly changing, making for an exciting last 1km on the fireroads which saw six of us finish within 18 seconds of each other.

ocnoc

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Peterx beats me for the second time tonight

No shame in that. He tends to do that to a lot of people

Slogger Jogger wrote: »

Where is ocnoc when you need him

Out in the mountains bidding my time

donothoponpop

Lug tomorrow. Mad scramble for places from the fire road. Elbows, overtaking, curses. Hit the grass, breathing starts getting heavy, legs start to feel the pace, climb, climb, Camarahill. Over that ridge, thank fook that's done. Look up and see the extent of what lies ahead...

I'm looking forward to this, a injury-lated first hill race this year. Not expecting too much, but there's always the you vs. the mountain battle in these ones.

I drew blood on Fenton's low door the last two times; anyone short willing to buy the pints if I hand the money?

Slogger Jogger

donothoponpop wrote: »

Lug tomorrow. ...

We'll call you back if you start off down the mountain the wrong way

Looking forward to that pint at the end though.