Moving guns through town ?

NakedDex

Yes, I know, but I wanted to clarify some of the reasons it's essentially redundant the moment it leaves the shop.

MonkeyGuy

NakedDex wrote: »

Yes, I know, but I wanted to clarify some of the reasons it's essentially redundant the moment it leaves the shop.

Yeah I get that. Well I suppose it's no different than customs testing gas guns with CO2 and seizing them because they're over the limit. I'm not saying we should lie I'm totally in favour of the 1j limit which is why I think a cert is a great idea.

NakedDex

Sorry, that was directed at the last comment on the previous page.

I'm in favour of the 1J limit too, which is why the cert is actually quite dangerous if relied on. If people start to take it as gospel, then it makes it very easy to simply carry it with a rifle that's been upgraded beyond the 1J limit and simply claim ignorance if/when they're caught out by a site or by authorities.

sealgaire

THEY ARE TOYS, FFS!

Stercus Accidit

Of course they have to be covered in a proper bag and a 'cert' is worthless once the gun leaves the shop that sold it.

They aren't toys, they are RIF's by law now.

CpcRc

I know its a little OT,but:

MonkeyGuy wrote: »

I would agree it started with MIA. No disrespect like I think it's a great idea, but it's useless without some legal backing. At first I thought it would be very helpful, as long as the seal isn't broken and I had that record sheet, it was their responsibilty to downgrade it if necessary. Then I opened it and realized the seal was preventing me from accessing the barrel and hop up, but I could easily pull out the piston and spring etc and, if I really wanted to, put in a more powerful spring.

Are you talking about the seal that MIA are supposed to place on the mechbox every time they chrono an aeg? Oddysairsoft put up a video before showing how they place a security sticker on the mechbox that leaves a mark if removed. This is so that if someone tries to modify the gun afterwards, there will be a mark left behind to prove they opened the gun. But this is more so to prove that if you're caught with a gun over 1J then it's not their fault because they didn't sell you an over 1J gun.

Skip to 2:37 on the video where he starts to discuss it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxdKWLkUyqM

SNAKEDOC

anybody who is going airsofting should have a proper case or bag for their aeg. anybody carrying their aeg in the original box in a black sack should be shot with their aeg. the rule brian has is spot on no admission without a bag. i have a hard case but you can get a bag for a score in most bag shops that an aeg can fit into. no need to be carrying a box around, as you are going through town i presume you are using the luas i suggest bringing your camo gear in a bag and changing their. ample space at the site

NakedDex

sealgaire wrote: »

THEY ARE TOYS, FFS!

A fire axe is safety equipment, a chainsaw is a tool and a carving knife is a utensil. They all have safe purposes but potential to cause panic in public and be grounds for an arrest. That's why you take precautions.

Besides as Stercus said, they're not toys. By legal definition, they're Replica Imitation Firearms, or RIFs. Anyone brandishing one in public - for benign or malicious purposes - will be charged as though it were a real firearm. A further reason to take all necessary precautions.

Thanks for wading in, buh-bye now.

hrta

If you want to be as safe as you can, call in to your local garda station, tell them your travel details and time's, contact number of the site your visiting, your contact details, get him to sign it in the day book, and get his number, make sure all RIF's are in bags,

But at the end of the day, even if you had a license, the garda that stops you, has every right to take it off you, and to check all these details, and if it checks out, they will return them to you, so be very nice and answer all his questions.

Paul.

andy_g

sealgaire wrote: »

THEY ARE TOYS, FFS!

sealgaire.
Airsoft devices are classed as RIFS under the law. please dont post this crap on the airsoft forum. if you wish to complain about toys im sure there is a toy forum somewhere for you.

Failure to adhere to the forum charter again will result in a ban.

MonkeyGuy

CpcRc wrote: »

I know its a little OT,but:



Are you talking about the seal that MIA are supposed to place on the mechbox every time they chrono an aeg? Oddysairsoft put up a video before showing how they place a security sticker on the mechbox that leaves a mark if removed. This is so that if someone tries to modify the gun afterwards, there will be a mark left behind to prove they opened the gun. But this is more so to prove that if you're caught with a gun over 1J then it's not their fault because they didn't sell you an over 1J gun.

Skip to 2:37 on the video where he starts to discuss it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxdKWLkUyqM

Yeah I'm pretty sure I had that right. I was just saying that my experience of it is on a BAR 10 and I could have put in a more powerful spring without leaving a mark because of it's positioning.

CpcRc

Oh right. I've only got AEGs from them and the seal was on the side of the gearbox so that if it were opened up the seal would come off.

Leftyflip

Doesn't leave a mark if you know what you're doing...

MonkeyGuy

Leftyflip wrote: »

Doesn't leave a mark if you know what you're doing...

That's the kind of thing that makes it totally useless!

Puding

the only way the system could even remotely work is if gearboxes started being welded together similar to the practice in Germany, and i do not think anyone wants to go down that path

also its perfectly posible to increase a devices fps without touching the inside of gearbox

as other have said the cert is only valved for one moment in time

MagicIRL

I've just trolled through this forum and Im as lost as when I first started?

To sum it up, in my opinion, from what I have just read;

I can use any public transport/walk through any town with my AEG aslong as the AEG is in a carrybag/hardcase (i.e. Guitar Bag [Although, is that not attemmting to conceal an RIF?]) and the magazines/batteries/bbs and other equipment is kept in a sports bag and out of sight.

I would still like some IAA clarification of how to transport these things around, I'll most likely e-mail them about it in a few, but it all seems rather "chancing-your-arm" at this stage. Everyone seems to be sayings X, Y and Z in regards to how they transport aegs, not how you legally should, and thus Im confused.

NakedDex

I have no idea where you're getting confused, it's fairly clear-cut.

To transport any RIF's through anything remotely resembling a public place they need to be appropriate carry cases (hard or soft) which do not arouse public concern (no point in using a plain black case with a big sticker that says "I have a gun in this bag").
There's no legal aspect to it apart from the section of the act stating that RIF's should not be seen in public. Technically this allows you to use the retail box, but the site which you intend on travelling to has a rule against allowing anyone carrying their rifles in such packaging into the site, which leaves you with the aforementioned option of a carry case.

Using a guitar case is concealing an RIF, but that's the entire point. This isn't some sort of breach of an American style "concealed carry" law, it's simple, innocuous transport. I have one particular rifle case that actually regularly gets mistake for a guitar case, so it clearly doesn't matter greatly.


So in confusion-free summary; Get a rifle case. Use it. End of.

MonkeyGuy wrote: »

That's the kind of thing that makes it totally useless!

Case. In. Point.

Knight990

Big black plastic bags, cover them up. Then you're grand.

Lemming

Knight990 wrote: »

Big black plastic bags, cover them up. Then you're grand.

And if they rip?

Knight990

Lemming wrote: »

And if they rip?

Several black plastic bags you can buy strong ones, if you double bag them they should hold up fine.

Lemming

Knight990 wrote: »

Several black plastic bags you can buy strong ones, if you double bag them they should hold up fine.

And if they rip?

Seriously, a carry case of some description is an investment and I cannot fathom why anybody would scrimp on the concept for the sake of about €20/30. At least with a case you also have added benefit of easy storage, protection from knocks, etc.

Lets just say you were stopped; black plastic bag(s) will really do you no favour on first-impressions and credibility with a Garda. Common sense should tell you that.

Knight990

Lemming wrote: »

And if they rip?

Seriously, a carry case of some description is an investment and I cannot fathom why anybody would scrimp on the concept for the sake of about €20/30. At least with a case you also have added benefit of easy storage, protection from knocks, etc.

Lets just say you were stopped; black plastic bag(s) will really do you no favour on first-impressions and credibility with a Garda. Common sense should tell you that.

Easy does it I'm simply offering a cheap temporary solution, the carry case is the best bet obviously.

Lemming

Knight990 wrote: »

Easy does it I'm simply offering a cheap temporary solution, the carry case is the best bet obviously.

A gym bag or a backpack of some description is infinitely better as a temporary solution to the notion of using a black plastic bag. There's just so many ways in which that can go wrong; not to mention plastic bagging can tend to 'form' around the shape of the object in question. Personally speaking, I'd be sweating buckets moving an airsoft gun from the boot of my car and indoors in a black plastic bag, never mind carrying through town.

In any case, I doubt the lads at the Office would be too happy with someone turning up with nothing but a couple of bin liners wrapped haphazardly around an AEG.

CaptainPrice

that may be the case but there have been points made on any kind of solution be it temperary or buying a bag, it still looks really dodgey having an RIF in town.

To the Garda you could be concealing a firearm or RIF. I dont know if you remember but 2 summers ago, the "phantom sniper of Pearse St." made a small newspaper headline. My mate came to my house and showed me it. Old ladies put into hospital from small wounds and shock. OK, illegal metal bbs, an overpowered rifle and he was set up in a building but this shows what people can have. even if it is stored seperately.Based on that story, if you found a lad in the street with anything like that on him I wouldnt think there is any way he could walk off still with it.
I have had my own in a bass guitar bag in town on several occasions. RIF was scopeless, i had the cylinder out and stored seperately and mag removed. The lad I dealt with also had his in a storebrand rifle case.
As it happened there was a student protest that particular day. If we had been searched, things would not have looked too good.
Its not the guards fault, its their job.

In the end I think ordinary evreyday methods of storing them can be classified as "concealment". this dates back to aincient times- martial arts weapons in the form of ordinary evreyday objects. Ultimately though if you dont look or act like you are up to no good, you blend in and dont warrant much attention from the authorities.

Perhaps a good way, if you need to go public transport or town is to have it in a box and wrapped in brown paper like a parcel? I know that if one buys training weapons in a martial arts store, they are wrapped in brown paper and noone pays any notice to them in the street. Even a 6 foot staff.

but as MagicIRL stated above, IAA clearance would be appreciated on this topic.

Lemming

CaptainPrice wrote: »

In the end I think ordinary evreyday methods of storing them can be classified as "concealment".

but as MagicIRL stated above, IAA clearance would be appreciated on this topic.

Sorry, but as Dex has already pointed out, what "clearance" do you need? How much more clear does it need to be? "Do not waive anything that looks like a gun around in public" (or words to that effect) is pretty clear in what it means. It means that you are going to have to "conceal" (and this isn't the US ... so why people are in a tissy over "concealment" is beyond me) whatever it is that you're carrying lest joe-soap-public see it, panic, and then you end up in trouble for brandishing in public. Common sense I would have thought, no?

Secondly, regardless of everything else; the site in question will turn these guys away if they turn up with boxes. So why it keeps getting discussed is a bit bemusing.

Witcher

CaptainPrice wrote: »

To the Garda you could be concealing a firearm or RIF. I dont know if you remember but 2 summers ago, the "phantom sniper of Pearse St." made a small newspaper headline. My mate came to my house and showed me it. Old ladies put into hospital from small wounds and shock. OK, illegal metal bbs, an overpowered rifle and he was set up in a building but this shows what people can have. even if it is stored seperately.Based on that story, if you found a lad in the street with anything like that on him I wouldnt think there is any way he could walk off still with it.

That was an air rifle;a firearm, it has absolutely nothing to do with airsoft.

Look the fact is the gun should be in a case or bag wherever you are. A guard wouldn't accuse you of "concealing" it by having it in a bag, what's the alternative..carrying it in plain sight? Think about it.

As long as you're going to/from an airsoft site or shop and not just popping down to Tesco to buy milk with an M4 "concealed" you'll be fine.

CaptainPrice

It would be nice to have some final verdict on what to do or how to do it.
Regardless on where it is. Concealment, hiding something, more often than not implies a use. Like a knife in a pocket maybe?
Obviously if someone can be incognito enough to not attract any attention than evreything is fine.
Im asking that "if- on the offchance a guard askes what is in your bag, what kind of protocol is expected to be followed in order for you to have grounds to keep your gun and continue on your way?"
And to hell with whatever mentioned site wont let me in for having a box. Its their business and policy. My preferred site isnt as strick on something silly like a box so its of no concern to me.

Leftyflip

Like has been said, thats what you do...

Witcher

CaptainPrice wrote: »

It would be nice to have some final verdict on what to do or how to do it.
Regardless on where it is. Concealment, hiding something, more often than not implies a use. Like a knife in a pocket maybe?
Obviously if someone can be incognito enough to not attract any attention than evreything is fine.
Im asking that "if- on the offchance a guard askes what is in your bag, what kind of protocol is expected to be followed in order for you to have grounds to keep your gun and continue on your way?"
And to hell with whatever mentioned site wont let me in for having a box. Its their business and policy. My preferred site isnt as strick on something silly like a box so its of no concern to me.

You should always tell a guard if you're carrying one, whether it's a bag or in the boot of a car being searched. That's what guys transporting real steel do, if it works for them it'll work for us.

CaptainPrice

Blay wrote: »

That was an air rifle;a firearm, it has absolutely nothing to do with airsoft.

Look the fact is the gun should be in a case or bag wherever you are. A guard wouldn't accuse you of "concealing" it by having it in a bag, what's the alternative..carrying it in plain sight? Think about it.

As long as you're going to/from an airsoft site or shop and not just popping down to Tesco to buy milk with an M4 "concealed" you'll be fine.

why not read my point instead of telling me what to think?

A gun thats not a gun but does look like one and fires pellets. Airsoft is pretty new in ireland and not evreyone knows about it. Do not think the average joe or anyone else for that matter needs to link the story to the sport. But some will.

As to an alternative, how about dont go airsofting? its not vital to do in all seriousness. wait until you can have a lift down or something.

Guards can accuse you of whatever they want. Wether its true or not is where the accusations are dropped. One asked my buddy if he was trying to break into a school when he saw him making a coke rocket (a mento in a bottle of coke) near the building. Such is their job. And a coke "rocket" vs. something that looks identical to a gun in a backpack/case in a public area.

As it happens, the local tesco (or spar in this case) did not approve of the lads playing turning up in their bdus to buy their lunch at break in the days gaming. Mud is part of the reason here too but its not that bad considering the amount of business the owners are getting. Apparently people were a little aprehensive of a group of youths turning up to the shop to buy their lunch. And at the same time the site itself is 30 feet away.