Barca show their true colours

lordgoat

Third_Echelon wrote: »

I wasn't questioning anyone in particular's morals or judgements. I made my comment based on the general feeling across multiple posts and various different posters...

Lordgoat, I hadn't missed the point about the conflict. My point was coming from a completely different angle..

yes but by doing so you carefully ignore what is trying to be discussed.

and by saying stuff like:

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Before slating a club such as Barcelona for taking a sponsorship deal from an organisation from a country that has dubious human rights records, perhaps you should have a think what you buy personally day to day and how you are pedalling cheap labour/encouraging human rights to be breached in developing nations...

you kind of are questioning peoples actions.

Third_Echelon

lordgoat wrote: »

yes but by doing so you carefully ignore what is trying to be discussed.

and by saying stuff like:

you kind of are questioning peoples actions.

Of course I am questioning peoples actions (not you.... people in general)... (You seem to be squeeky clean, live on some sort of organic farm, live off the land and have never bought products linked to child labour etc.. Fair play to you)... However, previous to this, there was post after post spouting rubbish from some sort of moral high ground... I was pointing out the irony, that a lot of people themselves in some way are contributing to breaches of human rights every day by their purchasing choices, then on the other hand they are slating Barcelona for taking money from an organisation based in a country that is linked to human rights breaches.... Practise what you preach i think is the lesson here.. and before you go off on one, i didn't mean YOU. I was using You plural!

I totally understood what was being said about having UNICEF and Qatar Foundation on their shirt and the conflict in some people's eyes.... TOTALLY GOT THAT :rolleyes:

Pro. F

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Of course I am questioning peoples actions (not you.... people in general)... (You seem to be squeeky clean, live on some sort of organic farm, live off the land and have never bought products linked to child labour etc.. Fair play to you)... However, previous to this, there was post after post spouting rubbish from some sort of moral high ground... I was pointing out the irony, that a lot of people themselves in some way are contributing to breaches of human rights every day by their purchasing choices, then on the other hand they are slating Barcelona for taking money from an organisation based in a country that is linked to human rights breaches.... Practise what you preach i think is the lesson here.. and before you go off on one, i didn't mean YOU. I was using You plural!

I totally understood what was being said about having UNICEF and Qatar Foundation on their shirt and the conflict in some people's eyes.... TOTALLY GOT THAT :rolleyes:

The idea that people shouldn't make this moral criticism is nonsense. It is much more straightforward for companies to make themselves morally consistent than it is for individuals. And a company which states its aim in a certain moral direction should be criticised when they do something that conflicts with that, especially when it's so obvious. Barcelona have set the moral standard (the high ground you talk about) for themselves by associating themselves with UNICEF. This is a very simple hypocrisy that they are guilty of here. It's not like some average punter who makes a mistake in one of his hundreds of daily choices.

And they aren't simply supporting an organisation based in a country guilty of human rights abuses. It is an organisation run by the people guilty of those abuses who are trying to generate positive spin.

So you say you get that in some people's eyes there is a conflict. What about in your eyes? Do you agree that Barca are being hypocrites in this case? Second time I've asked you now.

Third_Echelon

Pro. F wrote: »

The idea that people shouldn't make this moral criticism is nonsense. It is much more straightforward for companies to make themselves morally consistent than it is for individuals. And a company which states its aim in a certain moral direction should be criticised when they do something that conflicts with that, especially when it's so obvious. Barcelona have set the moral standard (the high ground you talk about) for themselves by associating themselves with UNICEF. This is a very simple hypocrisy that they are guilty of here. It's not like some average punter who makes a mistake in one of his hundreds of daylie choices.

And they aren't simply supporting an organisation based in a country guilty of human rights abuses. It is an organisation run by the people guilty of those abuses who are trying to generate positive spin.

So you say you get that in some people's eyes there is a conflict. What about in your eyes? Do you agree that Barca are being hypocrites in this case? Second time I've asked you now.

No, i don't think they are hypocrits. They have paid a lot of money of the past 4 or 5 years to UNICEF in a reverse sponsorship deal. As some have mentioned, perhaps this was just a way of easing the blow when they actually needed a sponsor on their shirt. They need the cash now, so they need to take on a paying sponsor no matter who that is.

Seriously.... are you that naive to think that every major sponsor of every major football team in the world isn't in some way dodgy? That is one of my main points. You seem to be singling out Barcelona for criticism when the very same criticism could be directed towards a lot of clubs/competitions around the world. You seem to be obsessed with Qatar for some reason. You are trying to create dirt, when there is none just for the sake of it...

In Dubai/UAE the migrant workers etc are treated like rubbish there too by the government, low pay, bad conditions. Trafficing etc goes on... Emirates Airlines are run by the government too. Do you have an issue with Arsenal being sponsored by such morally inadequate people? Chelsea had them for a while as well. Ethiad sponsored the Hurling. Get down to Croke Park with your banner and protest.... Block the runway at Dublin airport!!! Dude, I could go on all day with various examples of companies with records like this...

The Qatar Foundation is an organisation setup to better their country and establish better relations with the western world it seems. Is that not a good thing?

Pro. F

Third_Echelon wrote: »

No, i don't think they are hypocrits. They have paid a lot of money of the past 4 or 5 years to UNICEF in a reverse sponsorship deal. As some have mentioned, perhaps this was just a way of easing the blow when they actually needed a sponsor on their shirt. They need the cash now, so they need to take on a paying sponsor no matter who that is.

Seriously.... are you that naive to think that every major sponsor of every major football team in the world isn't in some way dodgy? That is one of my main points. You seem to be singling out Barcelona for criticism when the very same criticism could be directed towards a lot of clubs/competitions around the world. You seem to be obsessed with Qatar for some reason. You are trying to create dirt, when there is none just for the sake of it...

In Dubai/UAE the migrant workers etc are treated like rubbish there too by the government, low pay, bad conditions. Trafficing etc goes on... Emirates Airlines are run by the government too. Do you have an issue with Arsenal being sponsored by such morally inadequate people? Chelsea had them for a while as well. Ethiad sponsored the Hurling. Get down to Croke Park with your banner and protest.... Block the runway at Dublin airport!!! Dude, I could go on all day with various examples of companies with records like this...

The Qatar Foundation is an organisation setup to better their country and establish better relations with the western world it seems. Is that not a good thing?

For the love of god man read the thread. I've addressed all those points already. So go ahead and make a response to my previous posts if you have a counter argument. And then maybe finally we can actually have a proper discussion. I'm not going to repeat everything for you just because you are too lazy to follow the discussion.

Lol at your claim that you had read the thread.

lordgoat

Also can you see the difference between joe public and Barcelona football club?

Warper

A lot of people hate Barcelona now as they are better and more attractive than the team they support. Its natural, as has been said many times before - HATERS GONNA HATE.

Third_Echelon

Pro. F wrote: »

For the love of god man read the thread. I've addressed all those points already. So go ahead and make a response to my previous posts if you have a counter argument. And then maybe finally we can actually have a proper discussion. I'm not going to repeat everything for you just because you are too lazy to follow the discussion.

Lol at your claim that you had read the thread.

As I said previously, I had read the thread. All your posts so far have been pretty much "Qatar is bad... boooo"... I dont actually think you have contributed much else apart from that. Nowhere have you addressed other club's morals. I read all of your posts.... Are there any hiding somewhere else?

You seem to think that I point I made are not valid for some reason and they very much are. You are blinkered on this one.

lordgoat wrote: »

Also can you see the difference between joe public and Barcelona football club?

Yes. I was pointing out that perhaps people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. See the hypocrisy in that?

Anyway, I'm out. You hate Qatar and seem to want to ridicule Barcelona because of it. Whatever. You are entitled to your blinkered opinion.

lordgoat

Third_Echelon wrote: »

As I said previously, I had read the thread. All your posts so far have been pretty much "Qatar is bad... boooo"... I dont actually think you have contributed much else apart from that. Nowhere have you addressed other club's morals. I read all of your posts.... Are there any hiding somewhere else?

You seem to think that I point I made are not valid for some reason and they very much are. You are blinkered on this one.



Yes. I was pointing out that perhaps people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. See the hypocrisy in that?

Anyway, I'm out. You hate Qatar and seem to want to ridicule Barcelona because of it. Whatever. You are entitled to your blinkered opinion.

Point out where i have criticised barca in this thread.

My opinion is also far from blinkered, i have no problem with barcelona the football team, what i find strange and questioned is the opposing nature of two of their sponsors. In fact in one of my last posts i pointed out the team is irrelevant to the point of my arguement, if any team had the same sponsors i'd have a problem with it.

Hypocrisy- saying one has read a thread when one hasn't and making assumptions based on what one thinks has been said.

Third_Echelon

lordgoat wrote: »

Point out where i have criticised barca in this thread.

You criticised them by questioning their morals/judgement by having both UNICEF and the Qatar foundation on their shirt. Are you praising them for this? No, you think this is a negative thing and are criticising them because of it. Seriously dude... read your posts and have some conviction about your argument. Flip-flopping all over the place here.

lordgoat wrote: »

My opinion is also far from blinkered, i have no problem with barcelona the football team, what i find strange and questioned is the opposing nature of two of their sponsors. In fact in one of my last posts i pointed out the team is irrelevant to the point of my arguement, if any team had the same sponsors i'd have a problem with it.

Hypocrisy- saying one has read a thread when one hasn't and making assumptions based on what one thinks has been said.

You only seem to mention this problem of questioning the judgement of all/other teams after I had mentioned it.... And this was my point. You are singling out Barcelona in this instance and questioning their conflicting values in these two sponsors.

No assumptions were made. I made points in general. Not assumptions about yourself. Perhaps you should be reading a bit more carefully.

#15

Warper wrote: »

A lot of people hate Barcelona now as they are better and more attractive than the team they support. Its natural, as has been said many times before - HATERS GONNA HATE.

I also thought this thread was gonna be a haters convention. But Pro.F has made some good points that deserve some consideration.

If you're incapable of understanding his points, that's fine. Just stop trying to smear it as hatorade, it's tiresome.

lordgoat

Third_Echelon wrote: »

You criticised them by questioning their morals/judgement by having both UNICEF and the Qatar foundation on their shirt. Are you praising them for this? No, you think this is a negative thing and are criticising them because of it. Seriously dude... read your posts and have some conviction about your argument. Flip-flopping all over the place here.



You only seem to mention this problem of questioning the judgement of all/other teams after I had mentioned it.... And this was my point. You are singling out Barcelona in this instance and questioning their conflicting values in these two sponsors.

No assumptions were made. I made points in general. Not assumptions about yourself. Perhaps you should be reading a bit more carefully.

thought you were 'out', or don't you understand that concept as well?

So you automatically assume that questioning something is a negative thing? Bizarre, as i said i'm curious to see how barca/unicef reconcile both aspects of this contradiction. But I'm not sure this is possible.

The reason, as Pro F has told you twice already, I have ignored the other clubs you mention is that this thread is about barca, if you started a thread on any of the other points - well the one arsenal one you keep making, i'd discuss it there.

Also Lol at the post you quoted, did you read even read it. In it I say the team has very little relevance to te argument being brought forward. So that's singling Barva out is it- got me

SlickRic

this thread is fúcking hilarious.

lads, some good points are being made. if you don't like them, ignore them. or coherently argue them. don't just assume hypocrisy when Barca's success, their football, their DNA, etc has absolutely nothing to do with it.

stop ruining what's turned into a good thread, after what initially seemed like a potential trainwreck.

and 'questioning' is very different to being 'negative' or 'hating', i mean, for the love of all that is good and holy.

some posters have just talked hate, but a few of the more prominent posters have made decent posts on the subject, that have nothing to do with anything other than the weirdness, and alleged hypocrisy, of having the two sponsors.

i have no opinion, bar the fact i think they can do what the fúck they like, it's a business at the end of the day, but dismissing arguments as simply anti-Barca, or Barca-hate, if they go against that train of thought, or the like, is a tad sad.

Pro. F

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Nowhere have you addressed other club's morals. I read all of your posts.... Are there any hiding somewhere else?

Yes I have, here it is...

Pro. F wrote: »

There is a lot of stuff around that I don't like. If you want to start a thread about some morally dubious sponsors of some team I'll be interested. The interesting thing in this case, and it's an obvious difference if you manage to think about it for a second, is the hypocrisy of promoting UNICEF and Qatar at the same time on the same shirt. I would guess that the majority of big clubs do charity work while also having harmful organisations sponsoring them. It's still worth looking at Barca when it is being done so blatantly.

Not that hard to find. All it requires is reading the thread and actually paying attention to the arguments that you don't agree with.

If you don't think I have addressed it comprehensively or clearly enough then I can go over it again for you in more detail.

Third_Echelon wrote: »

As I said previously, I had read the thread. All your posts so far have been pretty much "Qatar is bad... boooo"... I dont actually think you have contributed much else apart from that.

If that is what you really think then you fail at basic comprehension skills. There's obviously no point in discussing it with you.

It really is funny how some posters don't care about making themselves look like total idiots when they come across an argument that they don't like or couldn't be bothered working through sensibly.