Manchester United vs Arsenal [8.00pm Sky Sports 1]

JohnnyRyan99

Are people forgetting the Champions League for pretty much the last 5 years with English teams doin fantastic almost every year? And not just United and Chelsea, the Pool and Arsenal have also been very competitive, and Spurs showing themselves to be up there this year!

Ye the game was poor tonight but it was cagey, both teams didn't want to lose and actually to be honest i really enjoyed the second half when it got a bit more open! Anyone claiming the league is poor is just trying to deny United, Arsenal and the other big guns there deserved plaudits! Pathetic!

everdead.ie

I thought it was a pretty harsh peno myself but it was missed and Arsenal failed to score anyway so it's a bit of a moot point.

the untitled user

everdead.ie wrote: »

Refs still give Arsenal on average a lot more free's and don't punish them as much as other teams it's a very smart approach by wenger always putting pressure on the refs

I dunno, I'm obviously biased but at the same time I think referee's don't give us our fair rub of the green. And not necessarily that they are biased but rather I feel they hold us to a higher standard because of the obvious ability to play within the side.

The Brum game was another perfect example, Zigic and Ridgewell should have both seen straight reds (a dangerous elbow on Wilshere for the former, and a ridiculous 'headed' challenge off the ball on Chamakh for the latter). Neither were given, we end up losing our cool and Wilshere gets sent off for a reckless tackle.

Harpy

Frisbee wrote: »

I thought I was the only person that saw that considering it wasn't mentioned at all and there was no replay shown.

what did he do? didn't see it..

Your Airbag

Sorry to repost this but does anyone know the name of the song played during the end of program compilation of the match tonight on Sky Sports? Need to get it.

I could post some of the lyrics as I have the rewind live TV superpower but that would really testing peoples memories. Sky usually use current songs in their compilations so it should be modern. I've done numerous web engine searches with the lyrics since the end of the program but to no avail. I guess you really need to hear it.

And don't worry I'll go away soon. I realise this is a long shot.

the untitled user

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Sorry I think you have missed the point.

I dont mind a team being physical even over the top if theyre honest about it. Attention is drawn when Arsenal do it as Wenger has moaned quite a bit before about teams being rough with them. That is the reason it gets highlighted

Fair point, I don't particularly like a lot of what he's said recently either. But I'd do think there is an argument Arsenal have only started resorting to such tactics in light of how many fouls go unpunished against them.

Frisbee

Harpy wrote: »

what did he do? didn't see it..

Was kind of hard to see it as they were both at the near touchline and the camera was panning away from them so you couldn't really see the lower half of their bodies. But from Rooney's movement it looked like he kicked the legs out from under Chamakh when he was running past.

Mitch Connor

Harpy wrote: »

what did he do? didn't see it..

Chamank was making a run forward, Rooney was running back to help out the defence as Park and Giggs were out of position. Rooney and Chamank were close, but neither anywhere near the ball - and Rooney just kicked him, tripping him up.

Completely deliberate off the ball kick at his opponent. No real idea why he did it - maybe to give away a free to stop arsenals break, but still - disgraceful.

L'prof

Well that was shite. I don't think there was an awful lot between the teams and both were quite poor, but I just didn't have any confidence that we'd score tonight.

Possibly 5 points behind now, it's about time somebody moved clear at the top and United look like they might be about to find some form...great

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Chamank was making a run forward, Rooney was running back to help out the defence as Park and Giggs were out of position. Rooney and Chamank were close, but neither anywhere near the ball - and Rooney just kicked him, tripping him up.

Completely deliberate off the ball kick at his opponent. No real idea why he did it - maybe to give away a free to stop arsenals break, but still - disgraceful.

Is that intentional???

Mitch Connor

L'prof wrote: »

Is that intentional???

Yes - though seeminly it is the wrong spelling, which is unintentional.

Paul Tergat

the untitled user wrote: »

Fair point, I don't particularly like a lot of what he's said recently either. But I'd do think there is an argument Arsenal have only started resorting to such tactics in light of how many fouls go unpunished against them.

Yeah I agree. For me its like diving. I hate to see it but if one team doesnt do it they are being disadvantaged. Its a sad thing to say and something I hate about football but the same applies to being a bit nasty at times.

Mitch Connor

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150361283375495&comments&ref=mf

This is the rooney kick at Chamack (?)

Sorry it is posted on Facebook - tried uploading from my phone to YouTube but it kept saying that it could not retrieve account information... despite being logged in to my account.

Frisbee

Mitch Connor wrote: »

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150361283375495&comments&ref=mf

This is the rooney kick at Chamack (?)

Sorry it is posted on Facebook - tried uploading from my phone to YouTube but it kept saying that it could not retrieve account information... despite being logged in to my account.

It's a lot clearer to see there than I thought it was at the time. Nothing serious but it's still bad form from Rooney.

L'prof

Mitch Connor wrote: »

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150361283375495&comments&ref=mf

This is the rooney kick at Chamack (?)

Sorry it is posted on Facebook - tried uploading from my phone to YouTube but it kept saying that it could not retrieve account information... despite being logged in to my account.

Doubt he'll be reprimanded for it.

Paul Tergat

Why the fook does Rooney still do stuff like that? Its just retarded

PHB

Why the **** wouldn't he?

Arsenal were breaking, United were only winning 1-0. He hadn't got a yellow. Wasn't going to be able to keep up. So he fouled him. Defensive midfielders do it constantly, hell it was done to Fletcher twice in the match. Good job and potentially taking one for the team. It's how you win things.

the untitled user

PHB wrote: »

Why the **** wouldn't he?

Arsenal were breaking, United were only winning 1-0. He hadn't got a yellow. Wasn't going to be able to keep up. So he fouled him. Defensive midfielders do it constantly, hell it was done to Fletcher twice in the match. Good job and potentially taking one for the team. It's how you win things.

there's taking the piss and there's taking the piss.

Le King

Great result against a good Arsenal team. Delighted

Peyton Manning

peabutler wrote: »

I reckon 3-2 Arsenal, let's see how United deal with a proper attack for the first time this season.

With a healthy degree of ease it has to be said.

its_phil

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Chamank was making a run forward, Rooney was running back to help out the defence as Park and Giggs were out of position. Rooney and Chamank were close, but neither anywhere near the ball - and Rooney just kicked him, tripping him up.

Completely deliberate off the ball kick at his opponent. No real idea why he did it - maybe to give away a free to stop arsenals break, but still - disgraceful.

Must have mixed the yellow socks up with the yellow ball...:p

Mars Bar

When I walked in to the pub, I was horrified and insulted that the Arsenal supporters (many of which were blow ins to the pub bar 3 or 4 great fans) had taken the United supporters area.
Now I know why they were there...they were closest to the door!

Didn't even get a chance to slag a few of them.

MOTM

Anderson; the guy has been so dynamic and has given us a new midfield almost!
Park; beauty of a header, wish we could stop him going to the Asian Cup.
Rafael; the lad is growing with confidence and had a great game!

Also, Fletcher was shíte which is worrying coz these are the games that he usually excels in.

MisterAnarchy

Warper wrote: »

What an absolute bore of a match yet again between the so called top attacking teams of the EPL. Great attacking intent by both teams setting out a 4-5-1 formation, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

2 Bad teams playing out a brutal game.

Thats par for the course in the Premier league among top 4 clashes.
I cant remember the last time there was a decent match among the big 4.
Generally they are just midfield scraps.
Pack the midfield and try and nick something.
Expect more of the same on Sunday between Chelsea and Utd,it will be boring fare.

Paul Tergat

PHB wrote: »

Why the **** wouldn't he?

Arsenal were breaking, United were only winning 1-0. He hadn't got a yellow. Wasn't going to be able to keep up. So he fouled him. Defensive midfielders do it constantly, hell it was done to Fletcher twice in the match. Good job and potentially taking one for the team. It's how you win things.

Is that in relation to Rooney? Kicking someone when the ball is long gone is very different to one of those 'good fouls' 'take one for the team' types. The ball is nowhere near Chamakh. Its not even like he was cynically checking his run, he just blatantly kicked him.

Quazzie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150361283375495&comments&ref=mf

This is the rooney kick at Chamack (?)

Sorry it is posted on Facebook - tried uploading from my phone to YouTube but it kept saying that it could not retrieve account information... despite being logged in to my account.

If you look at this Video Webb looks like he actually spots the incident and points at Rooney, but doesn't do anything about it.

The Muppet

Quazzie wrote: »

If you look at this Video Webb looks like he actually spots the incident and points at Rooney, but doesn't do anything about it.

WTF do you think united pay him all that money for ?

For me last night highlighted the myth of Arsenal once again. Arsenal are championed as an A level team capable of winning the league or CL, when in reality they haven't a hope of winning either this season.

The sooner Arsenal get over themselves, the sooner they might challenge for something that isn't the Carling Cup.

For example:

Wenger blaming last night on the pitch - both teams had to cope with the pitch Arsene. Maybe had he sent his team out with instructions other than to foul and kick then it could have been less of a facepalm complaint.

Wengers constant portayal of his players of being poor unfortunate victims of tough play when in reality his team have needed to man up for a long time, and now have decided if you can't beat them, join them. Rather than learn not to be put off your game by hard tackling, they have instead resorted to kicking teams off the park themselves. Last night was a perfect example. They were a disgrace, particularly Song. Yet they still have the poor me thing going on.

The obsession with the club and their fans with their purty football. The reality is that yes, they move the ball well, but they are lightweight. They lack killer instinct. They lack players who are regularly willing or given ther freedom to be direct. And their passing game isn't all that anyway. Playing Slavia Prague off the park or beating Wigan with your kids etc, is all well and good, but the reality is that Arsenal are a level below being a top team IMO. And the sooner they realise that and stop parading their purty football, the sooner their trophy cabinet will stop accumulating dust.

Arsenal have all the potential to be Europes best, but they need to toughen up and stop with the excuses. And nop, toughening up doesn't mean go out and play like Wolves and kick the oppoition off the park. It's about learning not to be put off your game by other teams doing this to you.


United right now aren't at the absolute top level either. But they're very close. Not because they are playing great football, they're not. But they have grit and steel and they're hard to beat. And they stay in and around the top level because they have more of this than Arsenal.

---

As for the match itself, awful game.

Rooney's penalty was shockin.

The penalty was only a penalty if you insist that any contact with the hand = deliberate handball = penalty. Harsh and for me, not a penalty. But I remember Carrick being penalised at Stamford Bridge a couple of years ago for a similar "Ball to hand" incident, so it balances out. But it shouldn't. Not a penalty.

IMO Arsenal never looked like scoring except when VDS parried straight to Chamakh (I think).

Great header by Park, but typical of the game, it came from a scrappy cross.

Arsenals new keeper has the potential to go a long way.

cson

Deleted User wrote: »

Wengers constant portayal of his players of being poor unfortunate victims of tough play when in reality his team have needed to man up for a long time, and now have decided if you can't beat them, join them. Rather than learn not to be put off your game by hard tackling, they have instead resorted to kicking teams off the park themselves. Last night was a perfect example. They were a disgrace, particularly Song. Yet they still have the poor me thing going on

I have no idea why you singled out Alex Song there.

Further to this, I have no idea why you're labelling the Arsenal team as a disgrace. There were tough tackles put in by both sides - Chamakh had a kick at Nani, Ferdinand was pretty reckless challenging Sagna, Arshavin went in two footed to try win a ball, Rooney kicked Chamakh when the ball was in the next parish. So it was tough from both sides. Not anyway close to a 'disgrace'.

cson

cson wrote: »

I have no idea why you singled out Alex Song there.

Further to this, I have no idea why you're labelling the Arsenal team as a disgrace. There were tough tackles put in by both sides - Chamakh had a kick at Nani, Ferdinand was pretty reckless challenging Sagna, Arshavin went in two footed to try win a ball, Rooney kicked Chamakh when the ball was in the next parish. So it was tough from both sides. Not anyway close to a 'disgrace'.

Song ran around all night fouling. It was his only contribution to the game. Chamakhs kick at Nani was bad but it was punished. Song got away with it for most of the night and his yellow was about an hour too late.

Rio's one on Sagna was bad, but IMO he was looking at the ball. He should keep his feet down though. Should have been booked for it.

Also I find the hypocracy of Arsenal to be disgraceful. Wenger singling out Fletcher last season was bang out of order. He needs to get his own house in order and stop trying to witch hunt.

And whilst there were tough tackles on both sides, Fergie doesn't harp on week after week trying to organise a sympathy campaign for his little angels.

cson

AW never mentioned anything about the tackling in his post match interview.

I'd suggest you take another look at the game if you think all Alex Song did was foul. He had a kick at Fletcher in the first half and clipped Evra in the second. Not a lot more than that tbh.

cson

cson wrote: »

AW never mentioned anything about the tackling in his post match interview.

I'd suggest you take another look at the game if you think all Alex Song did was foul. He had a kick at Fletcher in the first half and clipped Evra in the second. Not a lot more than that tbh.

AW regularly moans about the rough treatment his team gets. Last night he was probably too busy making excuses about the pitch to get around to throwing that in or unfairly singling out Fletcher.

I'd suggest you have another look at it and take the blinkers off. Suppose it's hard to see all that fouling when you're mesmerized by the purty passing.........

He was committing niggly fouls all night. I noticed it earlier and kept an eye on him.

Quazzie

Deleted User wrote: »

Rio's one on Sagna was bad, but IMO he was looking at the ball. He should keep his feet down though. Should have been booked for it.

I agree with most of what you're saying, even though its more than a tad hypocritical to single out Song in the same post as giving out about Wenger singling out Fletcher.

Having your eyes on the ball and not being aware of what the rest of your body is doing isn't a valid excuse for a foul. That tackle was diabolical and should have been treated as such.

Quazzie

Quazzie wrote: »

I agree with most of what you're saying, even though its more than a tad hypocritical to single out Song in the same post as giving out about Wenger singling out Fletcher.

How? Wenger has already singled out Fletcher. I think it's fair game to single Song out. Especially since Song was far worse than anything Fletcher has done in any game Wenger singled him out in.

wenger is just bitter because United don't let his darling have their way. it was poor form, bitter and lacking in class for him to single Fletcher out.

Quazzie wrote: »

Having your eyes on the ball and not being aware of what the rest of your body is doing isn't a valid excuse for a foul. That tackle was diabolical and should have been treated as such.

Diabolical is an excessive word. It was bad yea, clumsy for sure, diabolical? Nigel do jongs tackles are diabolical. Ferdinands was rash.

cson

Deleted User wrote: »

AW regularly moans about the rough treatment his team gets. Last night he was probably too busy making excuses about the pitch to get around to throwing that in or unfairly singling out Fletcher.

I'd suggest you have another look at it and take the blinkers off. Suppose it's hard to see all that fouling when you're mesmerized by the purty passing.........

He was committing niggly fouls all night. I noticed it earlier and kept an eye on him.

You see this is the match thread and I find it a bit churlish to start bringing something into play that AW never said pre or post match. Fine, he might go on about it a lot of the time but the only person mentioning it in connection with this match is you.

Its simply ridiculous to call solely the Arsenal tackling in the match a disgrace. If you have a read of the thread I'll think you'll see my blinkers are gathering dust on the shelf; I've called it as I've seen it all night. And as far as I'm concerned Song did little more than some tactical fouling. There was nothing malicious in it.

You're clearly attempting to rise me with the "purty football" comment but I'll ask you this; do you see any Arsenal fan arguing with you? Yes, we can be pretty one dimensional and don't know how to [a] Win big matches and close out games.

lordgoat

think it's a bit harsh as well on Song, I thought he was Arsenal's best player by a long way, and yes he had a couple of niggly fouls but nothing to write home about imo.

I also think it was a penalty, simply as if the ball doesn't hit his hand Nani is past him and into the box. His hand, intentionally or not, stops Nani's run, as tough as it is (and i know it's cruel) it's still a pen.

JohnnyRyan99

Deleted User wrote: »

Nigel do jongs tackles are diabolical

NO NEED!! :pac:

cson

lordgoat wrote: »

I also think it was a penalty, simply as if the ball doesn't hit his hand Nani is past him and into the box. His hand, intentionally or not, stops Nani's run, as tough as it is (and i know it's cruel) it's still a pen.

Question; what would you have thought if it had been given down the other end?

The Muppet

cson wrote: »

Question; what would you have thought if it had been given down the other end?

Question; would you have thought if it had been given down the other end?

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

Arsenal are championed as an A level team capable of winning the league or CL

....

The sooner Arsenal get over themselves, the sooner they might challenge for something that isn't the Carling Cup.

....

The obsession with the club and their fans with their purty football

....

the reality is that Arsenal are a level below being a top team IMO. And the sooner they realise that

Attributing a lot to us Arsenal fans there.

Mitch Connor

gosplan wrote: »

Attributing a lot to us Arsenal fans there.

only 1 of those statements is aimed specifically at arsenal fans - half a statement really.

jaykay74

gosplan wrote: »

Attributing a lot to us Arsenal fans there.

I would say it more based on the lazy eulogising in the media (rather than the fans who have seen plenty of false dawns) after Arsenal hammer some cannon fodder of the PL or CL.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

What people seem to miss about Wenger's comments in the past about tackling was that it was largely a ploy by him to draw attention to any tackles on Arsenal players. It's the sort of tactic that people cream themselves over when Ferguson or Mourinho do it. Now he's stopped asking any questions from reporters trying to get him to make comments about tackling and it seems opposition fans are keeping up the crusade on his behalf.

Mitch Connor

playa3 wrote: »

What people seem to miss about Wenger's comments in the past about tackling was that it was largely a ploy by him to draw attention to any tackles on Arsenal players. It's the sort of tactic that people cream themselves over when Ferguson or Mourinho do it. Now he's stopped asking any questions from reporters trying to get him to make comments about tackling and it seems opposition fans are keeping up the crusade on his behalf.

I agree - was going to say the same.

His goal was to get more sympathy from the refs towards Arsenal, and it has worked. Arsenal have been getting away with more than they should for a good while now.

Ferguson did it previously, especially commenting on the treatment and 'lack of protection' Ronaldo got.

lordgoat

cson wrote: »

Question; what would you have thought if it had been given down the other end?

I probably would have actually. His hand stopped the ball, regardless of anything else.

gosplan

jaykay74 wrote: »

I would say it more based on the lazy eulogising in the media

Yup, almost as lazy as the typical 'whingy Arsenal think they're better than they are' comments.

cson

The Muppet wrote: »

Question; would you have thought if it had been given down the other end?

I'd have been delighted with the gift. Because honestly that's what I'd have thought it would have been - a gift, never a penalty no matter which end of the park it happened.

lordgoat wrote: »

I probably would have actually. His hand stopped the ball, regardless of anything else.

His hand was on the ground after he slipped; Nani then kicked the ball off it. It wasn't instantaneous - Clichy slipped tried to get back up and the ball was kicked at his hand. As I posted earlier; neither deliberate nor accidental = not a penalty.

gosplan

cson wrote: »

His hand was on the ground after he slipped; Nani then kicked the ball off it. It wasn't instantaneous - Clichy slipped tried to get back up and the ball was kicked at his hand. As I posted earlier; neither deliberate nor accidental = not a penalty.

I dunno the rules on this but it seems pretty straightforward to me.

If the rules say anything about stopping progression of the game, then it's a penalty.

If the rules say that, given time, you have to try to get your hand out of the way, then not a penalty because no way could Clichy have avoided that.

Funny though, does that mean that if you're standing on the line and someone blasts the ball off your hand from one yard, it should be play on?

Chamakh's handball that wasn't given was a penno though if I'm not mistaken. Ball came from far away, he went to head it but it hit his hand.

Mitch Connor

As I said at the time - I don't think it was a penalty. His arm was in a natural position, he didn't move it towards the ball and the ball was very close to him when kicked so he had virtually no time to move his arm. I think it was a very very harsh call - there is nothing Clichy could have done about it imo - he was very unfortunate.

Cypher_sounds

Mitch Connor wrote: »

As I said at the time - I don't think it was a penalty. His arm was in a natural position, he didn't move it towards the ball and the ball was very close to him when kicked so he had virtually no time to move his arm. I think it was a very very harsh call - there is nothing Clichy could have done about it imo - he was very unfortunate.

I agree, it was ball to hand, Clichy had no intention of handling the ball and so it wasnt deliberate, justice was done in the end and overall we deserved the victory with a goal worthy of winning the game.

Dave!

Just watched the highlights

-Arsenal didn't look very threatening at all tbh
-Impressive contortionism from Park for the goal!
-Was never a penalty for me. Clichy slipped and was using his hand to get up/move, and the ball was pushed into his arm, nothing he could do about it
-Top o' the table with a game in hand = Oh yes
-Bring on Chelsea

SilverFox261

Delighted with the result last night. I thought the entire United team did well but the stand outs for me were Anderson continuing his good form and Rafael who I thought put in a very strong performance as well.

That three points takes the pressure off United a bit for the trip to the Bridge on Sunday, which can only be a good thing i believe.

One thing that did surprise me though was the quality of Arsenal's newest goalkeeper. It wasn't easy to debut at Old Trafford and he made very few mistakes. There wasn't much he could do about the goal and he dealt pretty well with everything else that United produced. Arsenal may have found a very solid prospect.