Explosions in Stockholm

fontanalis

Fratton Fred wrote: »

but at the same time sectarian as well.

The Ba'ath party hugely favoured the Sunni (or was it shia?) Minority.

I think that may have been down to Nepotism as much as anything. he was suppsoed to be well known for rewarding people within his extended family and his hometown.

fontanalis

Manic Moran wrote: »

Come again? 78% of Afghans in the Korengal, maybe?

Poll taken Dec 2009, the latest I can find.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/1099a1Afghanistan-WhereThingsStand.pdf





The infrastructure surveys are of particular interest, considering how much attention the Taliban paid to it.

NTM

Wasn't a lot of support of the taliban down to the fact that they provided security (at a cruel cost)?

Son Of A Vidic

Jakkass wrote: »

Not at all. The Qur'an states that another man died in his place.

Do you know who this man is? Well it’s actually Judas, Muslims believe Judas was crucified not Jesus.

Jakkass wrote: »

This again does mean that Muslims reject the notion of Jesus Himself being crucified.

Haven’t I already said that, Muslims do not believe Jesus was crucified. If you read my last post you would have seen that. This is what I said.....

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

..Muslims dispute the fact of Jesus' crucifixion, arguing that Allah would never have dishonored His prophet by allowing Him to undergo such a death. So you see Islam is actually is very respectful of Jesus (Isa), they regard the crucifixion version of his death as an insult. They do not reject the teachings or message of Jesus.

Jakkass wrote: »

I have not met a Muslim who does not reject the Resurrection or Crucifixion of Jesus. Rejecting the Trinity is also a major difference.

Well if they did, they wouldn’t be true Muslims. I also mentioned Islam’s rejection of the Trinity in my last post.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

..Islam doesn’t believe in the holy Trinity, 3 in 1 and 1 in 3 and all that business.

That was the Holy Trinity I was referring to, I actually have difficulty believing it myself. This very issue actually cause a huge schism in the early Christian church. The concept of Trinity evolved and was formalised long after Jesus’s passing.

Jakkass wrote: »

Early Christianity actually. The Apostles spread the Gospel without force, it was only post-Constantine that force came into the equation unfortunately.

Once Constantine got on the Christianity band wagon, we had the total ‘Romanisation’ of Christianity. This legacy lasts today, ironically I think it has lead to the slow death of the church and it’s impending irrelevance.

philologos

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Do you know who this man is? Well it’s actually Judas, Muslims believe Judas was crucified not Jesus.

The same implications apply though. It's a huge difference. Again, I'm basing this solely on the Qur'an. I'm fairly sure any reference to Judas taking Jesus' place is in Hadith. Perhaps some of the Muslims on the forum would help me out in that respect as it's been a while since I've read this section.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Haven’t I already said that, Muslims do not believe Jesus was crucified. If you read my last post you would have seen that. This is what I said.....

Agreed, but I don't see what implications this has for this thread which is about radical Islam. Perhaps you can clarify this.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Well if they did, they wouldn’t be true Muslims. I also mentioned Islam’s rejection of the Trinity in my last post.

Again, I fail to see why you are going through points such as Islam's belief in Jesus as a mere prophet in this thread.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

That was the Holy Trinity I was referring to, I actually have difficulty believing it myself. This very issue actually cause a huge schism in the early Christian church. The concept of Trinity evolved and was formalised long after Jesus’s passing.

The Trinity is evident in the New Testament which was written within 60 years of his death (the earliest text 15 years after). It was from the get go a necessity to believe in Jesus in order to have a full relationship with God. Likewise, the Spirit plays an essential role as our guide. All three are God. Pluralisms can make up a singularity.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Once Constantine got on the Christianity band wagon, we had the total ‘Romanisation’ of Christianity. This legacy lasts today, ironically I think it has lead to the slow death of the church and it’s impending irrelevance.

I personally wouldn't hold there as being "the church" but churches which all serve Christ. (RCC isn't the only church)

AntiMatter

Jakkass wrote: »

The Trinity is evident in the New Testament which was written within 60 years of his death (the earliest text 15 years after). It was from the get go a necessity to believe in Jesus in order to have a full relationship with God. Likewise, the Spirit plays an essential role as our guide. All three are God. Pluralisms can make up a singularity.

If the Holy Ghost impreganated Mary, is Jesus the son of God or ther Holy Ghost? And if God and the Holy Ghost are the same, should it not be a duality instead of a trinity?

philologos

AntiMatter wrote: »

If the Holy Ghost impreganated Mary, is Jesus the son of God or ther Holy Ghost? And if God and the Holy Ghost are the same, should it not be a duality instead of a trinity?

God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three are God from a traditional Christian point of view. If you will Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three expressions of God.

It's also important to note that Christians believe that the Son existed prior to the Virgin Birth from the beginning of time which is why Jesus says "before Abraham was I am" much to the outrage of the Jewish priestly class.

biko

Jakkass/Corvus et al - can you guys continue in the Religious section?
This thread is about the suicide bombing in Sweden and not about how Jesus was conceived.
Thanks.

philologos

I may as well rope it back in. To Corvus Maximus - I honestly don't see how someone blowing up a car in Stockholm can be compared to the Iraq War which was an overriding cause within US society in general whereas the former was specifically motivated by radical Islam. Perhaps the closest comparison I could see would be the shootings outside abortion clinics in the US.

biko

Bombers name have been released a while: Taimour Abdulwahab
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11981228.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taimour_Abdulwahab_al-Abdaly
Taimour Abdulwahab al-Abdaly (December 12, 1981 - December 11, 2010) was the suspected suicide bomber who targeted Christmas shoppers in Stockholm Sweden on December 11, 2010. He was killed in a blast when he apparently tripped on the way to a busy shopping area detonating one of the two bombs he was carrying. He is also suspected of blowing up a car about 200 meters away from the site where he blew himself up.

Born in Iraq, he immigrated to Sweden in the early 1990s, then attended college in Great Britain, graduating with a degree in sports therapy in 2004. A Sunni Muslim, he was married and the father of two young children. He had advertised on a Muslim dating site for a second wife.[1]
An al-Qaida linked organization has reportedly praised his actions, though it has not claimed responsibility.

There is already a Facebook group honouring him and another making fun of him.
True to form the Swedes already have given him a name "The Bomb Turk" and you can now buy the t-shirt.

jugger0

I feel for the swedes, giving these animals refuge and they pay them back with a suicide bombing, they should deport the lot of them.

Son Of A Vidic

Biko - my apologies for getting side tracked, it was not my intention I can assure you. I was getting tired of the need for repetition.
I shall respect your commandment and....“Thou shalt not reply any further.”

Nodin

jugger0 wrote: »

I feel for the swedes, giving these animals refuge and they pay them back with a suicide bombing, they should deport the lot of them.

"these"? "animals"? It was one guy....

It makes you wonder if the suicide bomber been successful, would the Swedes be printing tshirts?

jugger0

Nodin wrote: »

"these"? "animals"? It was one guy....

Look up how the increased muslim population has had an effect on sweden...

Nodin

jugger0 wrote: »

Look up how the increased muslim population has had an effect on sweden...

Yes, one can now get damn good nan bread and sangak there, by all accounts.

dsmythy

Nodin wrote: »

"these"? "animals"? It was one guy....

And he was an animal.

jugger0

Nodin wrote: »

Yes, one can now get damn good nan bread and sangak there, by all accounts.

Nan bread is Indian... ya the sangak really makes up for all the crime doesnt it?

Nodin

jugger0 wrote: »

Nan bread is Indian...

The word is Persian in origin, you'll find.

biko

Infraction for that "animals" comment jugger0
But you're right in that Sweden has given a lot to the Muslims and gotten a lot of grief in return.
As of 2009, there were an estimated 450,000 to 500,000 Muslims in Sweden, around 5% of the total population.
Malmo is now a quarter Muslim and Stockholm 20%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnP-XzB_U0

The cities with large Muslim populations also have very high crime rate, but that could be attributed to that Muslims live in the poorest areas.

However, what I cannot get to terms with is the sky-rocketing number of rapes against Swedish women by Muslims.
“It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl,” says Hamid. “The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably ****ed before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.”

Swedish security police is estimating the number is radicals in Sweden to about 200 currently. Swedish mosques has also been used to recruit people to do suicide bombing abroad more than 5 times.

The amount of explosives carried by Taimour Abdulwahab has now been estimated to be enough to kills hundreds of people if he would have made it to Drottninggatan and all bombs would have gone off.
It would have been the biggest catastrophe in recent history.

wes

biko wrote: »

However, what I cannot get to terms with is the sky-rocketing number of rapes against Swedish women by Muslims

Its a blogspot site, and almost all the links in the blog posting, link back to his own blog or other peoples blogs. Seems a bit suspect imho. Also the comment of the individual you high light are disgusting, but I am sure you could easily find plenty of other individuals from many different back grounds who hold similar views. A single individual isn't representative of a groups opinion.

**EDIT**
Also, just to add the following link, which imho seems to be far more thrust worthy:

Sweden tops European rape league
Sweden tops European rape league

Published: 27 Apr 09 10:34 CET | Double click on a word to get a translation
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/19102/20090427/
Share122

Sweden has the highest incidence of reported rapes in Europe - twice as many as "runner up" the UK, a new study shows.

Researchers behind the EU study, which will be presented on Tuesday, conclude that rape appears to be a more common occurrence in Sweden than in continental European countries.

In Sweden, 46 incidents of rape are reported per 100,000 residents.

This figure is double as many as in the UK which reports 23 cases, and four times that of the other Nordic countries, Germany and France. The figure is up to 20 times the figure for certain countries in southern and eastern Europe.

The study, which is financed by the Brussels-based EU fund Daphne II, compared how the respective judicial systems managed rape cases across eleven EU countries. Sweden is shown in an unfavourable light, according to the study.

Click here for full story

No mention of any of the claims being made in that blog from that story, or any from the study carried out either.

Also, another story:

Swedish rapists ‘enjoy impunity’: Amnesty International

Sweden needs to do much more to clamp down on rapists, according to reports from Amnesty International and the United Nations. Jennifer Heape examines the disparity between the country's high incidence of rape and its low conviction rate.

--SNIP--

Amnesty's most damning criticism of Sweden relates to the considerable disparity between the number of rapes reported and the conviction rate.

Case Closed highlights the damning evidence that, despite the number of rapes reported to the police quadrupling over the past 20 years, the percentage of reported rapes ending in conviction is markedly lower today than it was in 1965.

--SNIP--

--SNIP--
In addition to challenging victim and crime stereotypes, perceptions surrounding ‘typical’ perpetrators must also be considered. The UN Special Report discusses how there is a widespread belief that the type of men who commit intimate-partner violence are not typical, ‘normal’ Swedes.

They are usually imagined as somewhat ‘deviant’ - unemployed, uneducated, alcoholic or from non-Western backgrounds, and so on. However, as Ertürk challenges: “In absolute numbers, the vast majority of the perpetrators of intimate-partner violence are ‘ordinary’ Swedish men.”
--SNIP--

Again, no mention of the claims being made in the blog, and in fact the attitudes like the one in that blog you posted, seem to help rapists get off scot free, as people seem to only see foreigners and non-western people as rapists. IMHO, seems to be case of foreigners being blamed disproptionality for a countries problems, which is nothing new of course.

Nodin

biko wrote: »

(................)in recent history.

And, in addition to Wes' points, it has to be said that including a clip from Pat Robertsons channel doesn't help your case.

biko

biko wrote: »

...

That was an appallingly one-sided and biased "report". I don't think I will trust news from the "Christian Broadcasting Network" considering their constant attempts to marry the concept of leftism with extremism.

wes

jugger0 wrote: »

I feel for the swedes, giving these animals refuge and they pay them back with a suicide bombing, they should deport the lot of them.

Interesting, when another terrorist in Sweden was shooting immigrants, you posted the following in reply to me on the topic:

wes wrote: »

So once again avoiding the actual topic, and going on a diatribe against Immigrants and Muslims. Once again very telling that people want to make this thread about how evil immigrants and Muslims are. Despite the fact that there is a nutter running about shooting immigrants, and again I note the complete lack of condemnation of this act from certain quarters, and the complete avoidance of the topic altogether.

You then reply with the following to me:

jugger0 wrote: »

I dont blame the shooter, id be doing the same if my country was being destroyed before my very eyes.

Seems to be a pretty blatant double standard to terrorism imho.

sensibleken

^^oh buuuuurrn!

*high five wes*

Fratton Fred

Over the past 25 years, the three top European terrorist organisations have been ETA, Bader Meinhoff and the IRA.

Should we have been treating the Spanish, Germans and Irish the way people want to treat Muslims?

Probablyly not.

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Over the past 25 years, the three top European terrorist organisations have been ETA, Bader Meinhoff and the IRA.

Should we have been treating the Spanish, Germans and Irish the way people want to treat Muslims?

Probablyly not.

It's easier to dehumanize something far away than something that is potentially on our doorstep.

sensibleken

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Over the past 25 years, the three top European terrorist organisations have been ETA, Bader Meinhoff and the IRA.

Should we have been treating the Spanish, Germans and Irish the way people want to treat Muslims?

Probablyly not.

hmm. maybe just anyone with a beard.

Morlar

sensibleken wrote: »

^^oh buuuuurrn!

*high five wes*

This has got to be the most pathetic post I have seen on here in quite a while.

On the bright side this terrorist is dead - hopefully those who support him will be locked up and then deported. Sweden does seem to have gotten itself into an appaling state - hopefully they snap out of it before their liberal attitudes do more damage to indigenous swedish citizens.

biko

wes wrote: »

Again, no mention of the claims being made in the blog, and in fact the attitudes like the one in that blog you posted, seem to help rapists get off scot free, as people seem to only see foreigners and non-western people as rapists. IMHO, seems to be case of foreigners being blamed disproptionality for a countries problems, which is nothing new of course.

Aye that is true and you're very right to question the sources but there are not many official stats as they aren't released. Also most info on this is of course in Swedish making it more difficult to find info for you.

I hope I don't come across as saying all Muslims are rapists, that's not the case. Most Muslim immigrants adopt quite well to Sweden I'm sure.

Looking at BRA, Swedish Criminal Prevention Council, stats shows that Swedes are the most common rape perps and also the most known serial rapists, I think there's 3 known ones (the Hagaman, the Soderman and the Orebroman), were all Swedish.

Yes, Swedes are the main perps but in year 2000 9 immigrants of 10 000 compared to 2 Swedes of 10 000 was registered for rape**. It is the crime where immigrants were most overrepresented. The most common countries at the time was Algeria, Libya, Morocco, Tunia, Italiy and Iraq. Immigrants from Korea, Japan, China and Vietnam are least reported for crime in Sweden.
Again this info is not readily available and often years old before PC took over completely.

From Sweden's closest neighbours. Newspaper links this time.
Denmark

'Rape is often committed by young men for whom it also represents a kind of proof of manhood. And if you look at the figures, men with an immigrant background are grossly over-represented, compared to the proportion of the population they make up,' he maintains.

Note, article does not give countries of origin.

Norway

The study is the first where the crime statistics have been analyzed according to ethnic origin. Of the 111 charged with rape in Oslo last year, 72 were of non-western ethnic origin, 25 are classified as Norwegian or western and 14 are listed as unknown.
While 65 percent of those charged with rape are classed as coming from a non-western background, this segment makes up only 14.3 percent of Oslo's population. Norwegian women were the victims in 80 percent of the cases, with 20 percent being women of foreign background.

Current Oslo Police stats, video


Note, it is possible that crime committed by immigrants are more often reported.

sensibleken

Morlar wrote: »

This has got to be the most pathetic post I have seen on here in quite a while.

.

only gays say that

biko

Nodin wrote: »

And, in addition to Wes' points, it has to be said that including a clip from Pat Robertsons channel doesn't help your case.

Yeah I kinda knew someone would pick up that the video is from the Christian Broadcasting Network. However it doesn't mean that they're wrong.

Please feel free to contradict anything that you find in the video that's untrue or slanted.

The Waltzing Consumer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Over the past 25 years, the three top European terrorist organisations have been ETA, Bader Meinhoff and the IRA.

Should we have been treating the Spanish, Germans and Irish the way people want to treat Muslims?

Probablyly not.

Read some history books and you will see how Europe treated these groups and communities that supported them. They did not go easy on them at all. It is hard to compare the treatment of these groups and communities with the treatment of muslim communities in Europe as it is ongoing and there is not enough resources to paint an overall picture.

But again, with reference to this particular attack, the main reason seems to be CARTOONS, not occupation of lands, not treatment of communities, not discrimination, racism, violence, poverty, but fricking cartoons!

Could you imagine the IRA, ETA or Red Army Faction attacking, protesting or murdering over cartoons? It would be interesting to read if you could find an example. They all have pretty shocking histories but I don't recall reading about attacking artists, authors, journalists and film-makers.

wes

biko wrote: »

Again this info is not readily available and often years old before PC took over completely.

If the information is as old as you say, then that instantly cause issues with it. From what I understand most of the Muslim immigrant are recent arrivals, and as such the information would be pretty useless if it is too old.

biko wrote: »

From Sweden's closest neighbours. Newspaper links this time.
Denmark

Note, article does not give countries of origin.

Norway

Current Oslo Police stats, video


Note, it is possible that crime committed by immigrants are more often reported.

The dates are back to 2001 in the above cases, and most Muslim immigrants arrived after the Iraq war, which was in 2003, and the blog you posted earlier alleged that there was a link between the 2. Also, the links aren't about Sweden, which doesn't back up your earlier claim. So the data present is old as you said, and not about Sweden as you said, and most immigrants don't arrive until after the Iraq war, which is 2 years after the date of your articles with your stats.

The link I posted in the case of Sweden show a clear problem in general in Sweden, that goes far beyond immigrant communities, and again there is no information based on Religion either way, and considering that the articles regarding rape you provide, are from 2001, and most immigrants arrived after 2003, then there is clearly issues with the data, and it would be fair to say that that data is stale, and also your data has nothing to do with Sweden as well, so again that is another major issue, especially considering that rape in general is far far worse in Sweden than her neighbours in general, which mean using her neighbours as a comparison is meaningless, as they clearly are very different in that regard. Normally such a comparison would be fine, but considering that the stats show Sweden has a lot more rapes than any of its neighbours, and that the other date is nearly a decade old, a useful comparison using your data is impossible, as it is to old, and not a good comparison considering what we know about Swedens level of rape.

The links I provided are from April of last year and directly comment on the situation in Sweden, and imho give a far better insight due to them being far more recent.

**EDIT**
As for the general crime stats, I doubt that has anything to do with Religion.
**EDIT**

Fratton Fred

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Read some history books and you will see how Europe treated these groups and communities that supported them. They did not go easy on them at all. It is hard to compare the treatment of these groups and communities with the treatment of muslim communities in Europe as it is ongoing and there is not enough resources to paint an overall picture.

But again, with reference to this particular attack, the main reason seems to be CARTOONS, not occupation of lands, not treatment of communities, not discrimination, racism, violence, poverty, but fricking cartoons!

Could you imagine the IRA, ETA or Red Army Faction attacking, protesting or murdering over cartoons? It would be interesting to read if you could find an example. They all have pretty shocking histories but I don't recall reading about attacking artists, authors, journalists and film-makers.

ever heard of Ross Mcwhirter?

To a lot of people, the gripes of the groups mentioned are pretty trivial.

Tabnabs

This is what the suicide bomber looked like.

clicky

In a nice touch he called his young son Osama...

prinz

Dyflin wrote: »

This is what the suicide bomber looked like.
clicky In a nice touch he called his young son Osama...

It's sad more than anything, that the cancer of human thinking that killing yourself and as many others as you can exists. It needs to be eradicated. I feel bad for his wife and kids and family, he has been taken away from them by some twisted bastards, who will sit back and let him off like a wind up toy with nothing but hate fueling him.

There seems to be no difference between this man and people who go on killing sprees in universities etc. Their personalities seem very alike and they often get exploited by others.

The Waltzing Consumer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

ever heard of Ross Mcwhirter?

To a lot of people, the gripes of the groups mentioned are pretty trivial.

Yeah I would have been thinking about the Guinness Records guy when I wrote that. But that is not comparable to cartoons though.

Ross McWhirter involved himself in politics and offered money for information regarding IRA bombings. He made himself a target.

Do you have any examples of authors or cartoonists who were targeted simply for disliking or mocking the IRA?

I would not argue for the merits of these groups but it is historical fact what occured to thse groups and communities who supported them or even had the same nationality. Your example McWhirter advocated restrictions on the Irish community in Britain, IRA or not, so are these not the types of issues you did not want happening for muslims in Europe?

Morlar

Here is another imperfect report published in 2010 with data compiled from court cases during 2009 :

http://www.thelocal.se/28580/20100825/
Sweden Democrats publish report on rape

Published: 25 Aug 10 16:39 CET

The Sweden Democrats presented a report on Wednesday showing that of 114 convictions for rape in 2009, 48 percent involved men born outside Sweden.


"This sample is less than half of the court rulings last year," said Klara Hradilova Selin at The National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå) which compiles official statistics on crimes committed and reported in Sweden.

The Sweden Democrats have gone through 114 district court rulings from 2009 in cases of rape or aggravated rape. 48 percent (or 55 cases) of the convicted rapists were born outside of Sweden, with 39.5 percent of the total born outside of Europe.

The 55 convictions constitute an over representation of overseas-born as a group. There were 648,426 overseas-born males registered as resident in Sweden in 2009 of a population of 9.34 million.

According to Brå statistics men account for 98 percent of all rapes in Sweden.

According to the Sweden Democrats the over-representation is due to cultural differences, and that the view on rape and on women varies significantly between cultures. But Brå dispute that any conclusions can be drawn from the statistics.

"There were 253 court judgements last year, there were 6,000 rapes reported to the police and the Sweden Democrats have chosen 114 cases," said Klara Hradilova Selin to The Local.

Selin also rejected the Sweden Democrats claim that there is something of a "wave of rapes" sweeping Sweden, with the country enduring the highest incidence of rape in Europe.

The comparison can not be done, according to Selin, the definition of rape differs too greatly among countries. Since a 2005 law change Sweden has one of the broadest definitions of rape in an international perspective.

Sweden Democrats' party leader Jimmie Åkesson has meanwhile rejected the argument that it is irresponsible for a politician to draw conclusions from such a small sample.

"I think that it is a reasonable limitation. It confirms the same pattern in other reports which, for example Brå has done, and confirms also patterns seen in some foreign countries," Åkesson told news agency TT.

But Klara Hradilova Selin argues that it is impossible to draw any general conclusions over rape from Brå statistics.

"There simply aren't any statistics which indicate the actual incidence of rape - it is the crime with the highest degree of hidden statistics and most cases are not even reported," she told The Local.

The Sweden Democrats have identified the incidence of rape as the "key equality issue of the election campaign" and argue that tighter controls on immigration would help to address the issue as well as placing a ten year trial period for new citizens.

They further propose to raise the penalties for rape and spend 1 billion kronor ($134 million) annually on measures to rebuild risk areas, adding cameras and improving lighting.

TT/Peter Vinthagen Simpson
news@thelocal.se

Fratton Fred

A Muslim might very well argue that the cartoons put himself in the firing line for mocking Allah.

The relatives of the innocent victims would argue that they have never oppressed anyone, so why are they a Target?

biko

prinz wrote: »

There seems to be no difference between this man and people who go on killing sprees in universities etc. Their personalities seem very alike and they often get exploited by others.

Indeed it's very sad when people get used by organisations.
But I wouldn't lump this guy in with lone kids in Finland, Columbine, other schools who simply kill everyone because they are filled with teenage rage or similar selfish reasons.

Suicide bombers are a different kettle - organised and motivated to cause maximum destruction. We still more info on Taimour Abdulwahab but since he was probably radicalised in Luton and spent time in Iraq to prepare I would not say he was alone in this.

jugger0

wes wrote: »

Interesting, when another terrorist in Sweden was shooting immigrants, you posted the following in reply to me on the topic:



You then reply with the following to me:



Seems to be a pretty blatant double standard to terrorism imho.

How was that guy a terrorist? he's just responding to a threat he probably sees everyday... put yourself in his shoes, if thousands of muslims invaded dublin and went into a crime frenzy wouldnt you be pissed? maybe a family member was attacked by one of these "people". The govenment isnt going to do anything...

wes

Morlar wrote: »

Here is another imperfect report published in 2010 with data compiled from court cases during 2009 :

Well, let highlight some other parts of the same article:

http://www.thelocal.se/28580/20100825/
Sweden Democrats publish report on rape

Published: 25 Aug 10 16:39 CET

The Sweden Democrats presented a report on Wednesday showing that of 114 convictions for rape in 2009, 48 percent involved men born outside Sweden.


"This sample is less than half of the court rulings last year," said Klara Hradilova Selin at The National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå) which compiles official statistics on crimes committed and reported in Sweden.

The Sweden Democrats have gone through 114 district court rulings from 2009 in cases of rape or aggravated rape. 48 percent (or 55 cases) of the convicted rapists were born outside of Sweden, with 39.5 percent of the total born outside of Europe.

The 55 convictions constitute an over representation of overseas-born as a group. There were 648,426 overseas-born males registered as resident in Sweden in 2009 of a population of 9.34 million.

According to Brå statistics men account for 98 percent of all rapes in Sweden.

According to the Sweden Democrats the over-representation is due to cultural differences, and that the view on rape and on women varies significantly between cultures. But Brå dispute that any conclusions can be drawn from the statistics.

"There were 253 court judgements last year, there were 6,000 rapes reported to the police and the Sweden Democrats have chosen 114 cases," said Klara Hradilova Selin to The Local.

Selin also rejected the Sweden Democrats claim that there is something of a "wave of rapes" sweeping Sweden, with the country enduring the highest incidence of rape in Europe.

The comparison can not be done, according to Selin, the definition of rape differs too greatly among countries. Since a 2005 law change Sweden has one of the broadest definitions of rape in an international perspective.

Sweden Democrats' party leader Jimmie Åkesson has meanwhile rejected the argument that it is irresponsible for a politician to draw conclusions from such a small sample.

"I think that it is a reasonable limitation. It confirms the same pattern in other reports which, for example Brå has done, and confirms also patterns seen in some foreign countries," Åkesson told news agency TT.

But Klara Hradilova Selin argues that it is impossible to draw any general conclusions over rape from Brå statistics.

"There simply aren't any statistics which indicate the actual incidence of rape - it is the crime with the highest degree of hidden statistics and most cases are not even reported," she told The Local.

The Sweden Democrats have identified the incidence of rape as the "key equality issue of the election campaign" and argue that tighter controls on immigration would help to address the issue as well as placing a ten year trial period for new citizens.

They further propose to raise the penalties for rape and spend 1 billion kronor ($134 million) annually on measures to rebuild risk areas, adding cameras and improving lighting.

TT/Peter Vinthagen Simpson
news@thelocal.se

They chose a very small sample, and therefore I think it reasonable to find the conclusions questionable. The question has to be asked, why did they not look at all the cases? Why such a small sample? There data has huge problem with it, and the people making the claims also make it double questionable.

wes

jugger0 wrote: »

How was that guy a terrorist? he's just responding to a threat he probably sees everyday... put yourself in his shoes, if thousands of muslims invaded dublin and went into a crime frenzy wouldnt you be pissed? maybe a family member was attacked by one of these "people". The govenment isnt going to do anything...

The fact that you deny he was a terrorist is just digging a deeper hole for yourself. He attacked random people, he did not go hunting for Osama, he just randomly shot people. That is what makes him a terrorist. He is no different than the guy who tired to blow up random people. It is sickening that anyone would defend either terrorist, but the only terrorist being defended is the crazy who shot people.

prinz

biko wrote: »

Indeed it's very sad when people get used by organisations. But I wouldn't lump this guy in with lone kids in Finland, Columbine, other schools who simply kill everyone because they are filled with teenage rage or similar selfish reasons..

Their personality traits often coincide. Introverts, anti-social, loners.. The same type of people are often recruited into right and left extremist groups etc. The only difference is the lone gunmen/women convince themselves that killing is the only way out whereas the suicide bombers and others often are duped into it by others.

biko wrote: »

Suicide bombers are a different kettle - organised and motivated to cause maximum destruction. We still more info on Taimour Abdulwahab but since he was probably radicalised in Luton and spent time in Iraq to prepare I would not say he was alone in this.

The complete opposite. There was a man, I think he was the Imam from Luton's Islamic Centre who had dealings with the guy while he was in Luton, on the news last nights, could have been on Channel 4 and was describing how the man would go from one extreme to the other more or less.. in terms of fundamentalism and jihadism.. back to normality.. and so on. It was obvious somebody was filling his head with nonsense and they need to be stopped. They didn't go to the police at the time, but that is perhaps understandable. Thank God or Allah or the FSM or whatever that it wasn't as big a disaster as it could have been.

jugger0

wes wrote: »

The fact that you deny he was a terrorist is just digging a deeper hole for yourself. He attacked random people, he did not go hunting for Osama, he just randomly shot people. That is what makes him a terrorist. He is no different than the guy who tired to blow up random people. It is sickening that anyone would defend either terrorist, but the only terrorist being defended is the crazy who shot people.

Pretty sure thats not the definition of a terrorist? the muslims have been nothing but a cancer on swedish society, the country has gotten worse with the rising muslim population, thats a fact that cant be denied. Id love to know how the swedes themselves feel sbout the whole situation, it is their country after all.

wes

jugger0 wrote: »

Pretty sure thats not the definition of a terrorist?

Well seeing as both men tried to kill random people, and one is being called a terrorist, it is only reasonable to call them both terrorists.

jugger0 wrote: »

the muslims have been nothing but a cancer on swedish society, the country has gotten worse with the rising muslim population, thats a fact that cant be denied. Id love to know how the swedes themselves feel sbout the whole situation, it is their country after all.

Yes, yes keep on making excuses for your preferred terrorist. This is just getting more and more entertaining really.

jugger0

wes wrote: »

Well seeing as both men tried to kill random people, and one is being called a terrorist, it is only reasonable to call them both terrorists.



Yes, yes keep on making excuses for your preferred terrorist. This is just getting more and more entertaining really.

Your the one making excuses for muslims. I hope sweden sorts this mess out, such a shame to see a nice country going down the pan like this.

Nodin

biko wrote: »

Yeah I kinda knew someone would pick up that the video is from the Christian Broadcasting Network. However it doesn't mean that they're wrong..

Its run by a rabid lunatic, so yes, it rather does.

biko wrote: »

Please feel free to contradict anything that you find in the video that's untrue or slanted.

One time only -

Protests against Israel have been going on since as far back as I can remember. Linking them to crime, anti-semitism and immigration is disengenous and typically underhanded.

The assertion that Malmo will be majority muslim in the future is unfounded, as is the assertion for Sweden being a majority muslim state.

"jihad" driving school? FFS. Christ help them if they're asked to go down to the Horn of Africa.

The quote about "The best Islamic state is sweden" is cherry picked from a man who thinks "that Western liberalism is the best basis for free religious expression"
http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/03/sweden-best-muslim-state.html

Should we get somebody posting info from David Icke, Al Qaeda, and the like in this thread, I presume you'll be giving it the same scrutiny you expect others to give this rabble-rabble shite.

Nodin

Morlar wrote: »

Here is another imperfect report published in 2010 with data compiled from court cases during 2009 :

...A report published by the right wing anti-immigrant, anti-gay, anti-minorities in general party comes to such a conclusion? O the shock.

wes

jugger0 wrote: »

Your the one making excuses for muslims.

I think you will find I condemned both terrorists. Also, in this instance, I made if very clear that what the guy did was first and foremost wrong, and that the reasoning behind was inherently stupid as well. I would hardly class that as making excuses.

If you are talking about me questioning data, that I see issues with, that isn't making excuses as you put it, but rather simple evaluation of data and coming to conclusion based on that.

jugger0 wrote: »

I hope sweden sorts this mess out, such a shame to see a nice country going down the pan like this.

Well, seeing as you are more than happy to support a random crazy shooting people, I find that judgement rather questionable.