Returns Question

Sully

Hi folks.
Quick question. If I purchase a product and its faulty, can the store insist the product is sent to their headquarters for checking to see if a product can be replaced, refunded or exchanged?

Thanks

aidan_walsh

What's the product? Is it likely to require specialist examination?

Paulw

Sully wrote: »

If I purchase a product and its faulty, can the store insist the product is sent to their headquarters for checking to see if a product can be replaced, refunded or exchanged?

Yes, they can. They can also see about repairing the product too.

P. Breathnach

Paulw wrote: »

Yes, they can. They can also see about repairing the product too.

Provided that the time involved is not unreasonable, taking account of factors such as the type of product and normal consumer needs.

Sully

Shoes. The material on them detoriated after one day and the store insists they send it to HQ for examination, that individual stores can't deal with refunds or exchanges.

Doesn't sound right to me. One day?


Dunno the exact ins and outs but if it were me I'd want my cash back or a replacement on the spot. If they sold them to you they can replace them for you.

Sully

Yeah I bought a pair, wore them a day and then I noticed there was a side streak of what looked like a mouldy colour. The store I got them from is at the other end of the country, I was up there on short break and bought a pair. There a chains store.

Anyway, called them and explained what happened and the situation with me living so far away. She said no problem, gave me her name and said whenever I get back up come in with them.

In the meantime. I discovered they had a store about an hour from where I live. Called in, manager wasn't there and she's the only one allowed deal with returns apparently. Was told to call back in 20mins which I did and was told she was away and would call me. When she did, that afternoon, she told me they would need to be sent back to HQ who would make the call.

I rang back the store I bought them in, explained what I was told and that I was unhappy. She said it was unusual, and that she would call the area manager to help me out. The next day she called back and I was told next time I bring it to my local store I would be looked after.

So I went there, manager refused. Claims the shoes were 'soaking wet' when she saw them, which is completely untrue. She then questioned how I was storing them. She called the area manager twice but still couldn't refund or exchange product for me.

When I pointed out I called soon after wearing them, and the damage was small, so it was on record that I had a problem she still insisted thats the company returns policy and she could do no more.

She also claimed the shoes were not water proof and were not to be worn in the rain.

I disagree with their policy and do not want to have to wait any longer and keep calling back, about an hour away from my house. I just want it over with.

Sully

Just to add.. this is going on over a month now. The local store manager insists she can't do anything. The store I bought it of, their manager, said its all down to the area manager and not individual stores.

The local store continually refused to give me her name and shop number on my last visit but eventually supplied it.

drunkmonkey

Sully wrote: »

I just want it over with.

You should have got this hero to drop them back on day 1. Not sure if it's to late.
Ask the store if you post them up will the look after you. They'll have them tuesday and can make a decision then.

All went wrong when you went to a store you didn't buy them from, if you wanted to deal with the local store you should have bought them there in the first place;)

Sully

To be fair, the original store is 4hours away. I didn't expect any problems. The local store is about an hour away, I only discovered it by pure chance. So I couldn't have bought locally and I was told I could bring them back locally, as its a chain. I was also told the original store would wait as I had called it in!

Both stores maintain that their policy is to send away.

Absolam

To be honest I'd just take it to the small claims court; you're obviously getting the run around.

drunkmonkey

Sully wrote: »

Both stores maintain that their policy is to send away.

Well then that's the store policy and you need to get them back to the store to send them away.
If it looked like an obvious manufacturing fault i'd expect them to swap them on the spot or refund. (but not the local store for an on the spot decision)
It's gone on way to long, call the original store and see how long the whole thing will take if you post them up now.

Sully

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Well then that's the store policy and you need to get them back to the store to send them away.
If it looked like an obvious manufacturing fault i'd expect them to swap them on the spot or refund. (but not the local store for an on the spot decision)
It's gone on way to long, call the original store and see how long the whole thing will take if you post them up now.

But I would have expected that if I I buy a product, and its faulty, they can replace it. Not just send it away and wait for a call to be made. This is what I am annoyed with. I don't want it sent away for ages. I would have expected I could do this all the store. Its a different story every time I speak with them.

As for sending it through the post - that costs this! But the local store were willing to do it for me anyway, so I wouldn't have had to do that.

MunsterCycling

Tbh Just ring up the original store and ask for all the details for a SCC claim

wmpdd3

Send a letter attached to the shoes, giving them 10 days to rectify the situation. Tell them what you want, replacement etc. Keep a copy of this letter. This gets things going because even if the shoes aren't returned to you within the 10 days you can still continue with the small claims. Take it they cost €100 +, the scc costs 15 euro.

drunkmonkey

Sully wrote: »

But I would have expected that if I I buy a product, and its faulty, they can replace it

They can but you'd really need to return to the store your bought it and do it in person (not some other store) within a reasonable time.

Did you make the call and post it up today, it's gone on to long now sully, just get them back to the store and get it sorted.

You can drop it to the local store but then your relying on them to post it up to the original store who then have to post it back to get it looked at. There's just 2 many things to go wrong if you drop it to the local store.

The local store can not replace the shoes for you so forget about dealing with them as their only making things more complicated.

There's no excuse for not having this problem sorted tomorrow with the original store and an post.

Because you failed to return the shoes within 30 days (this is your fault). It's only right that the store get them checked out.

Sully

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They can but you'd really need to return to the store your bought it and do it in person (not some other store) within a reasonable time.

Did you make the call and post it up today, it's gone on to long now sully, just get them back to the store and get it sorted.

You can drop it to the local store but then your relying on them to post it up to the original store who then have to post it back to get it looked at. There's just 2 many things to go wrong if you drop it to the local store.

The local store can not replace the shoes for you so forget about dealing with them as their only making things more complicated.

There's no excuse for not having this problem sorted tomorrow with the original store and an post.

Because you failed to return the shoes within 30 days (this is your fault). It's only right that the store get them checked out.

I spoke with the National Consumer Agency about this today and informed them of everything to date. They can offer the repair, but I am not obliged to take it. Its then they must refund or replace, at my discretion. The fact I called them about the fault before 30 days and that they agreed to wait, plus I attempted to return them to another branch (which I am permitted to do) within the 30 day period gives me additional room.

One more step before the courts and thats to write a formal letter of request for a refund, and if its ignored or I don't get it - then I can apply to the courts.

The area manager was/is due to call me today, but as of yet I have not received any call.

drunkmonkey

Sully wrote: »

I spoke with the National Consumer Agency about this today and informed them of everything to date. They can offer the repair, but I am not obliged to take it. Its then they must refund or replace, at my discretion.

Not 100% applicable to your situation, from what you said it sounds like the shoes were damaged by liquid. You should have seen this when you tried them on. The store is well within it's rights to get them looked at if there is a possibility of customer damage.
That fact you now have the shoes over a month makes it even worse, they should have been posted to the store as soon as possible if you couldn't make it yourself.

I'd love to bring you working with me for a day and you'd see how daft this whole thing is, send back to shoes.

As for the store saying it's fine just bring back the shoes whenever suits I think they had no idea you would take so long.

Just sort it out with the store asap. Ask would they give you discount voucher to make up for the postage costs.

It's up to you to sort it our directly with the store you bought them. To take this to court you would have to prove you did and you didn't fulfill your part as a customer yet.

Sully

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Not 100% applicable to your situation, from what you said it sounds like the shoes were damaged by liquid. You should have seen this when you tried them on. The store is well within it's rights to get them looked at if there is a possibility of customer damage.
That fact you now have the shoes over a month makes it even worse, they should have been posted to the store as soon as possible if you couldn't make it yourself.

The shoes were damaged after they were purchased. Not on the day. I wore them for a day and it was a typical wet Irish day but I actually wasn't even caught in a rain shower. The goods were faulty as they were not durable or suitable for the conditions we have in Ireland, and the quality dropped after a days wear. You cant expect shoes to deteriorate after a days wear in wet Irish weather.

I'd love to bring you working with me for a day and you'd see how daft this whole thing is, send back to shoes.

In a phone shop? I fail to see how thats applicable in this situation. If a customer buys a phone from you, and its faulty, are you going to shove down a policy of sending it back somewhere else for review and not give the customer a new product?

Thanks for your view but I don't find it "daft". Iv went down to the local store twice, an hour away, and tried to return the product. Its a chain store. I expect to be able to bring it to one of their chain stores and get it sorted and not have to go all the way back to the original. Even so, they agreed in the original store that I could bring it back locally and get a refund - but this never happened. I don't expect to buy a product that messes up after a day.

As for the store saying it's fine just bring back the shoes whenever suits I think they had no idea you would take so long.

I explained to the store the distance, and that it would be closer to Christmas at my next visit. She said it was fine because they will record it in their books due to distance etc.

It's up to you to sort it our directly with the store you bought them. To take this to court you would have to prove you did and you didn't fulfill your part as a customer yet.

Yes I have. I called them and reported the damage, explained the situation due to distance that I would be unable to deliver the goods to return and they said okay. I found a local store, within the time frame, and they refused to return them. When I checked with the original store, I was told it was fine and try again. On this visit I was still being told the same line. I called the original store again, they asked why wasn't I given a refund if thats what was agreed and then called me back to say its out of their hands and up to the area manager who will call me.

But thanks for your useful contribution and remarks, but ill take the advise from the NCA. Perhaps you will be right, I guess we will find out later.

drunkmonkey

If it was a verifiable fault then no problem, swap it on the spot.

Your problem isn't a fault, you took out your new shoes in bad weather and they got damaged, I think that's your fault. That's my opinion based on the information you supplied and it's what i'd tell you if I was the shoe shop owner.

To be straight up at this stage I think even you know it's your fault, you could have posted them back to the shop but you have a fair idea what they were going to say to the water stained shoes.

If there sunny day shoes you should only wear them on sunny days. It's unreasonable to expect to walk into a shoe shop were them in the rain, damage them and then expect a refund.

I can't see the NCA doing much for you.

No matter what route you take with this the shop is going to have to see the shoes.

have you a link to the said shoes as no pair of shoes i've ever bought have been guaranteed to withstand the irish weather.

I'm not having a go at you Sully but I don't think you've played your hand well in the case.

The agreement is between you and the retailer where you bought the shoes. Nobody else or no other store

91011

not sure if this has any bearing on this case but a warning to everyone - all roads are gritted with salt. Some of this also spreads to footpaths.

Salt & leather shoes are not good friends and can leave the leather looking weathered with white streaks even after a short time.

Sully

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If it was a verifiable fault then no problem, swap it on the spot.

Your problem isn't a fault, you took out your new shoes in bad weather and they got damaged, I think that's your fault. That's my opinion based on the information you supplied and it's what i'd tell you if I was the shoe shop owner.

It is a fault. How isn't it? Are you saying that runners should not be able to handle a bit of wet weather? That there should not be some form of durability, considering the market there on sale in? The weather was wet - it wasn't even raining. I wasn't walking through flood water or large puddles. It was a met day, and I was out working. The side of the runner has a streak down it, not very large mind but noticeable enough.

I knew it was a result of water. I rang without delay as soon as the fault was noticed. I described the fault, where I was wearing them etc and that they are stored in a nice dry warm room. They were, and still are, in their original packaging. The same box and bag even! The lady on the phone fully agreed with me that this should not happen, that its Ireland. All in the original store. She agreed that because of the distance, they would acknowledge the fault was reported within the period and described as such and I would be sorted on my next visit. Obviously she knew, and agreed, that it would be at least another month before my next visit. Thats the whole point of my call.

Moving forward - when I brought it to the local store, the two staff members agreed when I described the fault and when they looked at it themselves that it must be a fault of the product because it should not have such a streak so soon, after next to no where. But they cant do refunds/exchanges - only the manager could. And she refused, based on company policy. They don't do refunds/exchanges in store for faulty products. I called the original store to see if I could get something sorted, as it would save me travelling up and they said it should not be a problem and they would ask the area manager to resolve it. I was called, said it was no problem. Then the local store refused again and the original store manager, I called again and spoke with was surprised and rang me back saying they can't help as the regional manager is the one with the final say and that she will call me. She hasn't.

To be straight up at this stage I think even you know it's your fault, you could have posted them back to the shop but you have a fair idea what they were going to say to the water stained shoes.

Its not my fault. I don't believe its the stores fault either. I believe its the brands fault for developing a product that when worn in damp/wet weather, and in Ireland a day can be sunny and then turn into a horrible wet day, for only a few hours will start to get stained. This is what my argument was all along with the original store and the local store - who backed me up for the most part.

As for posting - I absolutely would not, regardless, spend money sending away the box. Absolutely not and I find the suggestion appalling. Nobody should bare the cost of P&P for something thats not their fault. The store never even asked for it to be sent back, they agreed I could do it personally. It was the local store which said they would send it back for me, but I refused because I want it done in store. Other stores do it - they should to. I could get it sent away, but I don't want to. I am not required to, and I have suffered enough hassle and being pushed around since day one. I am not going to oblige them by looking into the shoes for a week or two before deciding. They can decide in store and I believe their company policy is in breach of the Sales of Goods Act, as does the NCA who I explained every last detail to about this. I even pointed out your conflicting views. I wanted to be straight and not waste my time as well as someone else's chasing a dead horse.

If there sunny day shoes you should only wear them on sunny days. It's unreasonable to expect to walk into a shoe shop were them in the rain, damage them and then expect a refund.

Are you sure you live in Ireland? Are you working on behalf of 3 Ireland in another country by chance?! Because Ireland has the full seasons in one day. Even the NCA, and the store, agree the runners should be okay in rain. I wasn't even out in bloody rain!! Some durability is required. End of.

No matter what route you take with this the shop is going to have to see the shoes.

They have seen the shoes. They want their HQ to look at it. As per policy with all returns due to a fault.

have you a link to the said shoes as no pair of shoes i've ever bought have been guaranteed to withstand the irish weather.

The brand is Sketchers, and they cost over €100. There a brown shoe, but jesus I have no idea how else to describe them! For pretty much all my life so far I just wore runners and only ever had one problem - the rain caused part of the material to discolor my jeans. It was just the beginning, the paint or whatever part came off. But it was fine, and I didn't demand any refund or replacement. The runners weren't damaged and the jeans washed the colour out anyway.

I even have two pairs of shoes I have worn and got saturated in. Even in snow I wore them once, because I was stranded and had nothing else. There in perfect condition.

I'm not having a go at you Sully but I don't think you've played your hand well in the case.

Well then please don't refer to me as daft, or treat me as your little pet project. I appreciate the views, and I came here looking for advice. No matter how they disagree with my belief. But I don't appreciate being called "daft" and asked to hang out with you and see the word through your eyes!!

The agreement is between you and the retailer where you bought the shoes. Nobody else or no other store

Agreed, and the original store said I could deal with the local store. They also said they would accept a delayed return from me.

What else can I do better, bar comply with their policy which isn't in form with the law? I am not obliged to have them sent away.

Sully

91011 wrote: »

not sure if this has any bearing on this case but a warning to everyone - all roads are gritted with salt. Some of this also spreads to footpaths.

Salt & leather shoes are not good friends and can leave the leather looking weathered with white streaks even after a short time.

Was in October, so we didn't have such conditions (at least down where I am) thankfully.

Handy tip though, I never knew that!

drunkmonkey

Sully wrote: »

What else can I do better, bar comply with their policy which isn't in form with the law? I am not obliged to have them sent away.

You are obliged to return them to the store you bought them. Sully there's a very simple way to do this and that's return the shoes to the original store and let them make a decision. If you went in person they could make a decision there and then but you only talking over the phone so company policy would have to be quoted, when your in store the manager would have discretion to make a decision there and then.

For the record I didn't call you daft, I called the situation daft.

I'm trying to help you get this sorted by giving you advise from someone who deals with customer day in and day out.

Not letting the store get them shoes looked at is a refusal to play ball on your part. You need to send the shoes back to get this sorted. You have no rights until the store gets the shoes back.

If you don't want to deal with the store go to sketchers directly.

You do not have the right to a new pair of shoes on the spot, the NCA is wrong to suggest you do, if the sole fell off or something yes, but not because the shoes got stained. The store is well within the law to get a second opinion.

If the postage is such a big issue agree with the store when they find that it wasn't your fault that they will give you a voucher or something to cover the cost of the postage.

Stop with the excuses and get it sorted, if you had have sent them monday the manager would have had them this morning and could have made a decision.

Sully

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You are obliged to return them to the store you bought them. Sully there's a very simple way to do this and that's return the shoes to the original store and let them make a decision. If you went in person they could make a decision there and then but you only talking over the phone so company policy would have to be quoted, when your in store the manager would have discretion to make a decision there and then.

With respect, and I think ill stop discussing it as its going around in circles at this stage, the original store said I can return it to a local store. "There all the one" I was told

Not letting the store get them shoes looked at is a refusal to play ball on your part. You need to send the shoes back to get this sorted. You have no rights until the store gets the shoes back.

They can look at them, but they refuse to do so locally or in the original store. Their HQ wants to look at them, I disagree and believe any local store can judge it.

You do not have the right to a new pair of shoes on the spot, the NCA is wrong to suggest you do, if the sole fell off or something yes, but not because the shoes got stained. The store is well within the law to get a second opinion.

One would assume the NCA were fairly well experienced! But I think this issue is something for the courts to decide. I have no interest in passing parcel after the whole debacle. Maybe originally, but not now. You say thats wrong on my part, I disagree. So someone else can decide with the authority and experience.

If the postage is such a big issue agree with the store when they find that it wasn't your fault that they will give you a voucher or something to cover the cost of the postage.

I think I stated the store said they would cover it, but as I said, I refuse to allow them be sent away for inspection because I feel the local store can judge it based on the facts.

Stop with the excuses and get it sorted, if you had have sent them monday the manager would have had them this morning and could have made a decision.

Your idea of getting it sorted differs from mine, as does your view on the law.

Maybe you are right, maybe I and the NCA got it all wrong. But I would prefer not to take them up on their offer, and will go the next available route to me.

Absolam

Sully wrote: »

I spoke with the National Consumer Agency about this today and informed them of everything to date. They can offer the repair, but I am not obliged to take it. Its then they must refund or replace, at my discretion. The fact I called them about the fault before 30 days and that they agreed to wait, plus I attempted to return them to another branch (which I am permitted to do) within the 30 day period gives me additional room. One more step before the courts and thats to write a formal letter of request for a refund, and if its ignored or I don't get it - then I can apply to the courts.

That's not entirely correct; the company must offer a repair, replacement, or refund. Your refusal to accept one of the three options doesn't oblige them to offer one of the other options, and you are not obliged to take any of them; you can go to the Small Claims Court, who can decide for you which one you'll get. But if the company has offered recourse (ie one of the three) the SCC will rule for them unless you can prove the recourse was unreasonable. You are correct that you can return to any branch, if it's the same company (ie not a franchise). You don't have to take any steps at all before going to the SCC; it just looks better for you if you do.

Sully wrote: »

They can look at them, but they refuse to do so locally or in the original store. Their HQ wants to look at them, I disagree and believe any local store can judge it.

The company is entitled to inspect the goods, you're not entitled to place conditions on their entitlement, other than if it were to place an addditional cost on you, and in this case it doesn't.

I don't think you'll have any luck with the SCC in your current situation; the company aren't refusing your right to a return, they simply want to satisfy themselves of the fault in the goods before accepting it. If they inspect them and say they're not faulty, well then you might have a case.

slimjimmc

Absolam is correct, the "Its then they must refund or replace, at my discretion" statement is incorrect as far as consumer law is concerned. They only need to offer you one* of the three options at their discretion not yours. Of course, it's completely at your discretion to accept or reject their offer, but the point is you do not have a choice over which offer they make. They certainly don't have to make an alternative offer if you refuse.

*The choice of offer they make must be reasonable and be able to be completed without significant delay/inconvenience.

Sully

Thanks, ill follow this up with the NCA in the morning again.

drunkmonkey

Sully wrote: »

Thanks, ill follow this up with the NCA in the morning again.

What do you expect them to do for you?, you've been given good advice from posters here that have experience in these things yet you choose to ignore them.
I'm interested to see what the NCA say as they can not tell the retailer what to do, they can make a call on your behalf or give you advice but they can't fix the problem without proper fair play from you.

Sully

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you expect them to do for you?, you've been given good advice from posters here that have experience in these things yet you choose to ignore them.
I'm interested to see what the NCA say as they can not tell the retailer what to do, they can make a call on your behalf or give you advice but they can't fix the problem without proper fair play from you.

The advice is conflicting and to be fair, the NCA are dealing with this sole issue daily. Its their job. Others may have experience, or deal with it often in their own store. Id prefer to get professional advice. Every situation is different, and I want to speak with the NCA about the contradicting advice so I know where I stand firmly.

I'm glad I posted here and got views, as they will help. I need to know exactly where I stand regardless of what I do.

drunkmonkey

Sully wrote: »

Id prefer to get professional advice.

You are getting professional advice from someone with over 20yrs in retail under their belt.:rolleyes: