Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

Options
1…1213151718…29

Comments

  • Options
    #422
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    It's ridiculous that in this day and age an apparently decent guy has to do things like that, while people who are known to have killed ordinary people and 'ordinary' criminals can live a normal life. :(
    I would disagree with your definition of apparently decent. Its his choice tbh, didn't have to join the BA, comes with the territory.


  • Options
    #423
    Lonesome Boatman
    Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭Lonesome Boatman


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    But can you prove it was murder? If there's a civilain in the middle of a firefight, he might be killed by accident. If there are only civilians in an area, and the British army deliberately dropped a bomb there, then that would be murder. The distinction matters I think (although less so if you are one of the unfortunate civilians in question).

    Can i prove it was murder? No, but i would say a large percentage of it was, it is just sementics really, all that matters if these victims families are left without their loved one due to the British army. Unfortunately Afghan and Iraqi lives seem to be valued as less than that of British soldiers and other westerners. I take it you apply the same logic to the IRA, with the distinction between murder and 'collateral damage'?


  • Options
    #424
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,739 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    An IRA informant working for MI5 carried out the Northern Bank robbery? Is this informant also Superman? :pac::pac::pac:

    I knew this would be your approach:D
    It is ludricous to suggest, because afterall there have been no instances of IRA men working for MI5 and special branch while at the same time being an IRA commander.


  • Options
    #425
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Lonesome Boatman wrote: »
    Can i prove it was murder? No, but i would say a large percentage of it was, it is just sementics really, all that matters if these victims families are left without their loved one due to the British army. Unfortunately Afghan and Iraqi lives seem to be valued as less than that of British soldiers and other westerners. I take it you apply the same logic to the IRA, with the distinction between murder and 'collateral damage'?
    No, I made a clear distinction between what I consider murder and what I consider an accident. Warrington, for example, was murder.


  • Options
    #426
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Please quote the post I made where I said that they traffic drugs.

    Do try.

    One last time:
    This is the kind of heroic 'soldier' that was promoted to command level in the IRA. Fascinating. Most normal people would regard guys like this as dangerous scum. But in the IRA he was a boss.

    See if you can detect the link to drug money in the excerpt I quoted (for, I think, the 4th time).

    Any chance of anything with a source?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #427
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    No, I made a clear distinction between what I consider murder and what I consider an accident. Warrington, for example, was murder.

    Who has claimed otherwise?

    The issue is whether it was a deliberate targetting of those two kids, as you ludicriously claim, or a botched operation that had unnacceptible civilian casualties.


  • Options
    #428
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Any chance of anything with a source?
    I linked the source at least three times.


  • Options
    #429
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Who has claimed otherwise?

    The issue is whether it was a deliberate targetting of those two kids, as you ludicriously claim, or a botched operation that had unnacceptible civilian casualties.
    What would have been 'acceptable civilian casualties'? What kind of casualties do you expect when you place bombs in family shopping districts?

    Who do you think has the duty of care? The people who plant the bombs, or the children who are (inevitably) near them? That operation was not botched, it worked fine.


  • Options
    #430
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    What would have been 'acceptable civilian casualties'? What kind of casualties do you expect when you place bombs in family shopping districts?

    Who do you think has the duty of care? The people who plant the bombs, or the children who are (inevitably) near them? That operation was not botched, it worked fine.

    Says you. The IRA at the time unambigiously apologised.

    The duty of care is of course on the Volunteer, and in this case they made a bags of it and two children died. That however was not the intent or aim of the attack. If their aim was al-Quaeda style civilian slaughter, then they would have done that. It clearly wasn't in this case.


  • Options
    #431
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Says you. The IRA at the time unambigiously apologised.
    Wrong. The IRA said the blame lay with the British. That's not an ambiguous apology, is it?
    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    The duty of care is of course on the Volunteer, and in this case they made a bags of it and two children died. That however was not the intent or aim of the attack. If their aim was al-Quaeda style civilian slaughter, then they would have done that. It clearly wasn't in this case.
    Was there justice for those children?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #432
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    That however was not the intent or aim of the attack. If their aim was al-Quaeda style civilian slaughter, then they would have done that. It clearly wasn't in this case.
    Incidentally, what was the aim of the attack, other than to bomb British civilians?

    And as a follow up, how do you know what the aim of the attack was?


  • Options
    #433
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Wrong. The IRA said the blame lay with the British. That's not an ambiguous apology, is it?

    The IRA made a public apology and met with the two families to do so privately. A simple google search will tell you that.
    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Was there justice for those children?

    As far as I am aware, no.


  • Options
    #434
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Lonesome Boatman wrote: »
    2500 dead Afghan civilians in 3 years, murdered by the army that Junder is part of and Keith funds. So lets get this straight, neither of you have right to copy and paste about IRA atrocities while funding child murder, its point scoring hypocrisy with no regard for the innocent victims of war.

    It is provocative, hegmonic, jingoism.
    Murdered ny the British army? Could you provide a link please.


  • Options
    #435
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Yeah, think it was him, he was saying that he teaches kids to swim or something, and has to check his car as he works in the community.

    My civilian job is as a community worker, my ta unit is 2 royal Irish and yes I do check under my car everyday


  • Options
    #436
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Incidentally, what was the aim of the attack, other than to bomb British civilians?

    And as a follow up, how do you know what the aim of the attack was?

    If the aim of the attack was to 'bomb British civilians', they would have done so with a no warning bomb.

    I assume the aim of the attack, as with the hundreds of others at the time, was to disrupt life for civilians and get them to apply pressure on the government to come to the table.

    You are in lah lah land if you think the IRA set out to kill as many civilians as they could.


  • Options
    #437
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    If the aim of the attack was to 'bomb British civilians', they would have done so with a no warning bomb.

    I assume the aim of the attack, as with the hundreds of others at the time, was to disrupt life for civilians and get them to apply pressure on the government to come to the table.

    You are in lah lah land if you think the IRA set out to kill as many civilians as they could.

    Why did they often plant more than one bomb then? Why did they Target civilian areas? Why did they indiscriminately fire shots into restaurants?

    They may not have wanted to kill large numbers of innocent people, but they were certainly prepared to do so.


  • Options
    #438
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Oh yeah, maybe you could also explain why they only targeted England on the mainland as well.


  • Options
    #439
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why did they often plant more than one bomb then? Why did they Target civilian areas? Why did they indiscriminately fire shots into restaurants?

    They may not have wanted to kill large numbers of innocent people, but they were certainly prepared to do so.

    Look, I'm not here to defend the IRA, the Shinners can do that.

    There are two allegations being made on this thread:

    1: That the IRA are the kingpins in the Irish drugs trade
    2: That the Warrington bombing was a deliberate attempt to kill civilians.

    Neither are true.

    There is PLENTY to have a go at them over without resorting to simply making up lies.


  • Options
    #440
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Oh yeah, maybe you could also explain why they only targeted England on the mainland as well.

    IRA Green Book. Attacks on other Celtic nations were prohibited.


  • Options
    #441
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Personally I hold in contempt anyone who justifies murder for political ends. They are all criminals in my opinion. I can't see how any Shinner can criticise the Loyalist terrorists who stooped to the same lows as they did.

    I haven't been properly following this thread but surely that is not true. Michael Collins ordered murders for political ends; it was these ends which justified them.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #442
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    IRA Green Book. Attacks on other Celtic nations were prohibited.

    Why? The Scots were as responsible, if not more so, for oppression in Ireland than the English.


  • Options
    #443
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why? The Scots were as responsible, if not more so, for oppression in Ireland than the English.

    I have no idea. You asked why, the reason is the IRA's constiution forbids it.


  • Options
    #444
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    So the IRA constitution effectively said that attacks were only to be carried out against the English.

    And people question why I think they are scum.


  • Options
    #445
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    So the IRA constitution effectively said that attacks were only to be carried out against the English.

    And people question why I think they are scum.

    Not quite. They weren't allowed carry out operations in Wales or Scotland.


  • Options
    #446
    Winty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Winty


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    how many people did Ken Maginnis, for instance, assassinate during his time as a B Special/UDR commander?

    Ken Maginnis is well respected in SDLP circles, he lived with Seamus Mallon when they both were student teachers. He once said of Mallon that he disagreed fundamentally with many of Mr Mallon's views but, "he's truthful and principled and straight as a die".


  • Options
    #447
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    No i don't. I support the members in the British Army now. Not the members who killed innocent people during the troubles.

    Am i not in my right to buy a poppy and be proud to be British?

    what about killing innocent people in Afghanistan keith your grand with that ?


  • Options
    #448
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    Winty wrote: »
    Ken Maginnis is well respected in SDLP circles, he lived with Seamus Mallon when they both were student teachers. He once said of Mallon that he disagreed fundamentally with many of Mr Mallon's views but, "he's truthful and principled and straight as a die".

    mallons views he disagreed with related to democracy probably , ken maginis is an ex major in udr which in case you forgotten was involved in many murders of nationalists ,


  • Options
    #449
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Oh yeah, maybe you could also explain why they only targeted England on the mainland as well.

    "mainland"....?


  • Options
    #450
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Winty wrote: »
    Ken Maginnis is well respected in SDLP circles, .........

    ...a part answer to why the SDLP's fortunes have sunk so low...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #451
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    Nodin wrote: »
    "mainland"....?

    fred is a refugee here , his heart is on the '' mainland'' , please excuse


Advertisement