WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

paky · 13-12-2010 2:40pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I would have thought Wikipedia is the ideal SF historical source. All the activists can edit it like mad to tell their version of events. You for example can create an article about Bernard Dempsey and how he heroically killed JIm Curran. I do believe you said that these SF/IRA men who killed innocent people were heroes only hours ago?

That was completely and utterly taken out of context. I deny this :cool:

paky · 13-12-2010 2:41pm

Ciaran500 wrote: »

So they're just making up all these leaks and the American government is condemning them daily even though its all complete lies. Yeah. :rolleyes:

am...yeah

Tech3 · 13-12-2010 2:43pm

This is old news and was in the papers in the year 2005. I'm not suprised that our state owned heap of hippies that is the RTE are throwing out this garbage as the main headlines again.

It's fairly obvious that SF are getting more popular and FF will do anything to get their own votes at the GE. SF are an alternative to the mainstream politics that has dominated the last decade and I for one will be voting for a party that will put the people first.

ghostdancer · 13-12-2010 2:46pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Straw-man arguments? Which of the leaders in the War of Independence murdered children?

the same amount of Sinn Fein politicians that murdered children.

ghostdancer · 13-12-2010 2:47pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Well I don't want to drag things further off-topic so do you know of any online literature explaining why in this case pointing an AK at someone and firing until they died was considered manslaughter and not murder?

yes,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter

it's pretty self-explanatory really.

ghostdancer · 13-12-2010 2:49pm

Winty wrote: »

I said a year ago that Martin McGuinness and Pat Doherty "may have had something" to do with millions of cash just walking out of a bank in the middle of Belfast City Centre and all the pro IRA on boards jumped down my throat, well well looks like the may be truth in it.
.

does it?

because there's nothing new after coming out today, other than the fact that an american diplomat repeated something that Bertie said several years ago.

if ther was some proof, that might validate your claims, but there isn't.

Winty · 13-12-2010 2:56pm

ghostdancer wrote: »

does it?

because there's nothing new after coming out today, other than the fact that an american diplomat repeated something that Bertie said several years ago.

if ther was some proof, that might validate your claims, but there isn't.

I dont have any proof what so ever so your point wins and on the face of it I am wrong but deep down inside you all know I am right

Inzilbeth · 13-12-2010 2:56pm

It's fairly obvious that SF are getting more popular and FF will do anything to get their own votes at the GE. SF are an alternative to the mainstream politics that has dominated the last decade and I for one will be voting for a party that will put the people first.[/QUOTE]

They are only getting more popular due to the poor alternatives to vote for!

Mr Adams is running or attemping to run in my county and if he gets a seat.. I am moving.

The only reason he is making a move south now if because of the mess FF have made of things ... nice easy stepping stone for him to the Dail :rolleyes:

Notorious97 · 13-12-2010 2:57pm

Didnt the bank cancel all the notes they stole or something making them useless? Or did i misread that somewhere at the time?

KeithAFC · 13-12-2010 2:58pm

tech2 wrote: »

This is old news and was in the papers in the year 2005. I'm not suprised that our state owned heap of hippies that is the RTE are throwing out this garbage as the main headlines again.

It's fairly obvious that SF are getting more popular and FF will do anything to get their own votes at the GE. SF are an alternative to the mainstream politics that has dominated the last decade and I for one will be voting for a party that will put the people first.

Do you know SFs politics?

whippet · 13-12-2010 2:58pm

tech2 wrote: »

This is old news and was in the papers in the year 2005. I'm not suprised that our state owned heap of hippies that is the RTE are throwing out this garbage as the main headlines again.

It's fairly obvious that SF are getting more popular and FF will do anything to get their own votes at the GE. SF are an alternative to the mainstream politics that has dominated the last decade and I for one will be voting for a party that will put the people first.

this has nothing to do with FF, FF are finished and have very little clout left .....

SF are not mainstream politics as they are criminals and murderers, look Labour with their history won't even touch them with a view for a colalition partner.

There are plenty of other options than voting for your local thug in a general election

Bottle_of_Smoke · 13-12-2010 3:10pm

ghostdancer wrote: »

yes,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter

it's pretty self-explanatory really.

Very clever mate. So no online source as to why McCabe's killing was considered manslaughter rather than murder then?

Pointing an assault rifle at someone and firing until they stop moving sounds like murder to me.

Tech3 · 13-12-2010 3:15pm

whippet wrote: »

this has nothing to do with FF, FF are finished and have very little clout left .....

SF are not mainstream politics as they are criminals and murderers, look Labour with their history won't even touch them with a view for a colalition partner.

There are plenty of other options than voting for your local thug in a general election

Well everyone has their own opinion. Labour wont go into coalition with them as they fear they might lost a catchment of right wing voters and go against their own policies and join FG into the GE.

Local thug? Please explain.

dlofnep · 13-12-2010 3:16pm

Inzilbeth wrote: »

The only reason he is making a move south now if because of the mess FF have made of things ... nice easy stepping stone for him to the Dail :rolleyes:

No. He is opting to run in Louth because Arthur Morgan is not running in the next elections. The constituency is a Republican stronghold, so Gerry would be sure of a seat regardless of Fianna Fáil's current standing.

gizmo555 · 13-12-2010 3:16pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Very clever mate. So no online source as to why McCabe's killing was considered manslaughter rather than murder then?

Pointing an assault rifle at someone and firing until they stop moving sounds like murder to me.

The reason it was considered manslaughter was because the defendants pleaded guilty to manslaughter. In light of the intimidation of witnesses and their subsequent refusal to testify, the state accepted the plea. Presumably the DPP weighed the certainty of a manslaughter conviction against the much reduced chance of a capital murder conviction, given the withdrawal of witness co-operation.

Of course, you're right though. Cold blooded murder is exactly what it was.

Inzilbeth · 13-12-2010 3:21pm

dlofnep wrote: »

No. He is opting to run in Louth because Arthur Morgan is not running in the next elections. The constituency is a Republican stronghold, so Gerry would be sure of a seat regardless of Fianna Fáil's current standing.

Thanks .. I moved here only a while ago and never realised I should have looked into the 'politics' of a county before I moved.

whippet · 13-12-2010 3:22pm

tech2 wrote: »

Local thug? Please explain.

anyone who associates with drug dealers, murderers or criminals is a thug. Anyone who refuses to condeme the murder of a policeman going about his job is a thug, anyone who associates with types that Aengus Ó Snodaigh has on his election campaign .. my list could go on and on and on ......

KeithAFC · 13-12-2010 3:23pm

Inzilbeth wrote: »

It's fairly obvious that SF are getting more popular and FF will do anything to get their own votes at the GE. SF are an alternative to the mainstream politics that has dominated the last decade and I for one will be voting for a party that will put the people first.

They are only getting more popular due to the poor alternatives to vote for!

Mr Adams is running or attemping to run in my county and if he gets a seat.. I am moving.

The only reason he is making a move south now if because of the mess FF have made of things ... nice easy stepping stone for him to the Dail :rolleyes:

Well, he failed in his goal of a United Ireland and knows Northern Ireland is staying in the Union, so he is getting out while he can.

danbohan · 13-12-2010 3:23pm

Winty wrote: »

I dont have any proof what so ever so your point wins and on the face of it I am wrong but deep down inside you all know I am right

good to have you back winty , you will bring balance to the discussion , of course it will be a loylist balance but still balance , terrible thing this about adams and wiki leaks and the bank robbery isnt it , i know a man thats knows a cousin of another man whos mother in laws first cousin swears she saw gerry adams , martin mcguinness , pat doherty , cardinal brady and the papal nuncio counting money in a cottage in donegal on the night after the robbery , all are guilty lets just intern them , wait you lot tried that before !,

Gambler · 13-12-2010 3:29pm

Just thought some of the people debating the ins and outs of what the cables say might actually want to read the relevant cable. I have underlined the sections that are relevant to the OP.

6. (S) XXXXXXXXXXXX said that the GOI's judgment on the robbery was based almost exclusively on UK intelligence. He also said that intelligence is handled very differently in the British and Irish governments. In the Irish government, many officials, including himself, do not receive any intelligence reports. The tradition instead is to take the word of the Garda. Later on February 4, at XXXXXXXXXXXX' request, XXXXXXXXXXXX called the ambassador. XXXXXXXXXXXX said that he would be more precise with the Ambassador during their scheduled February 8 meeting, but confirmed that UK and PSNI information, combined with Ireland's long experience with the IRA, was the basis for the GOI assessment that IRA was behind the robbery. He said the GOI has no smoking gun or hard evidence but that the GOI considered it 99% certain that IRA conducted the robbery. Among several reasons, he said that no group other than IRA could have entered the neighborhood in which the bank manager lived. He described it as a "no go" area for the PSNI and splinter groups. He also said no other group would have the discipline, this many weeks after the robbery, not to try to use a bank note, or provide information on the van or any other aspect of the robbery. He said that the GOI does have "rock solid evidence" that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are members of the IRA military command and for that reason, the Taoiseach is certain they would have known in advance of the robbery.

To me that makes a strong argument that A) The IRA are the only group that could have realistically pulled off the job and

Unless it was a completely un-sanctioned action (which no-one seems to be claiming) then it is reasonable to assume that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness knew about the robbery or at the very least they could have provided the authorities with enough information to allow them to make arrests

danbohan · 13-12-2010 3:30pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Well, he failed in his goal of a United Ireland and knows Northern Ireland is staying in the Union, so he is getting out while he can.

still clinging to the past and hoping against hope that future can be changed keith ?, gerry adams is moving into southern politics because his work in northern ireland is done , its just a case now of waiting for a few years for nationalist majority to be in place and bring about the reunification , work needs to be commenced in the south so that sinn fein will be ready to deal with any subversive loyalist elements who wont respect the democratic mandate of the irish people such as yourself

Monty Burnz · 13-12-2010 3:31pm

paky wrote: »

That was completely and utterly taken out of context. I deny this :cool:

Fair enough - just to be clear on who you are calling heroes. I don't think the guys who blew up the kids in Warrington were heroes for example.

KeithAFC · 13-12-2010 3:33pm

danbohan wrote: »

still clinging to the past and hoping against hope that future can be changed keith ?, gerry adams is moving into southern politics because his work in northern ireland is done , its just a case now of waiting for a few years for nationalist majority to be in place and bring about the reunification , work needs to be commenced in the south so that sinn fein will be ready to deal with any subversive loyalist elements who wont respect the democratic mandate of the irish people such as yourself

I don't think you believe that to be honest. You have to watch the DUP conference to see why Gerry Adams is packing his bags.

Monty Burnz · 13-12-2010 3:34pm

ghostdancer wrote: »

the same amount of Sinn Fein politicians that murdered children.

We don't know that, do we? Who ordered the bombing of Warrington? McGuinness? Adams? I don't recall the targeting of innocent civilians during the civil war.

KeithAFC · 13-12-2010 3:41pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

We don't know that, do we? Who ordered the bombing of Warrington? McGuinness? Adams? I don't recall the targeting of innocent civilians during the civil war.

Planting bombs near chip shops, car bombs near shops were the public is working and war memorials is basically targeting civilians.

danbohan · 13-12-2010 3:41pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

I don't think you believe that to be honest. You have to watch the DUP conference to see why Gerry Adams is packing his bags.

when i watch a dup conference i wonder why everybody does not pack their bags !!

Monty Burnz · 13-12-2010 3:43pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Planting bombs near chip shops, car bombs near shops were the public is working and war memorials is basically targeting civilians.

Keith, I said 'civil war' there, but I actually meant the war of independence.

Ardennes1944 · 13-12-2010 3:48pm

DeVore wrote: »

Eh? Care to explain what's confusing you?

Look, don't worry, X-Factor will be on soon. :rolleyes:

DeV.

X-Factor is over:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wolfe Tone · 13-12-2010 3:50pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Well I don't want to drag things further off-topic so do you know of any online literature explaining why in this case pointing an AK at someone and firing until they died was considered manslaughter and not murder?

I will see if I can find the judgement online.

Winty · 13-12-2010 3:52pm

danbohan wrote: »

good to have you back winty , you will bring balance to the discussion , of course it will be a loylist balance but still balance , terrible thing this about adams and wiki leaks and the bank robbery isnt it , i know a man thats knows a cousin of another man whos mother in laws first cousin swears she saw gerry adams , martin mcguinness , pat doherty , cardinal brady and the papal nuncio counting money in a cottage in donegal on the night after the robbery , all are guilty lets just intern them , wait you lot tried that before !,

Hi Dan

Thanks for the Welcome back
You never miss a trick to label somebody who hates the IRA as a Loylist.
Remember our chats about Enniskillen? you remember when your IRA killed innocent people

Have you even been in Fermanagh Dan

WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

Comments