WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

OhNoYouDidn't · 14-12-2010 7:57pm

HQvhs wrote: »

J.

I honestly don't get why people defend the man being in the IRA, or (worse) denying he was ever in it. The dogs on the street know he was a senior member; denying that only makes it look as if you have been drinking the Sinn Fein Kool-Aid.

Who has defended or denied it?

OhNoYouDidn't · 14-12-2010 8:00pm

Chief--- wrote: »

Are you having a laugh or is this a serious post??

Its a very serious post. With all the attention the British and Irish states paid them over the past 40 years, if they were the kingpins in the drugs market its claimed, I'm sure at least one of them would have been lagged for trafficking, dealing or possession of a decent amount. Yet none have. How peculiar!

Lonesome Boatman · 14-12-2010 8:12pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Its a very serious post. With all the attention the British and Irish states paid them over the past 40 years, if they were the kingpins in the drugs market its claimed, I'm sure at least one of them would have been lagged for trafficking, dealing or possession of a decent amount. Yet none have. How peculiar!

No IRA members have ever been charged with drug related crimes? Not even one. The way the people with anti republican agendas are talking in this thread you would think they were drug dealers. Obviously people with agendas making claims they can't back up as usual.

dlofnep · 14-12-2010 8:19pm

Chief--- wrote: »

Are you having a laugh or is this a serious post??

That didn't answer his question.

The myth that the IRA trafficked drugs is bogus. The IRA have done some questionable things in the past, but peddle drugs is not one of them. They were pro-active with the removal of drug-dealers, and not for their personal gain as some spin-media outlets would have you believe.

Provide evidence (not opinion), that the IRA was heavily involved in the drugs trade.

OhNoYouDidn't · 14-12-2010 8:19pm

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

No IRA members have ever been charged with drug related crimes? Not even one. The way the people with anti republican agendas are talking in this thread you would think they were drug dealers. Obviously people with agendas making claims they can't back up as usual.

Exactly. There are plenty of things to have a go at the Republican movement over in terms of activities they did without resorting to blatant lies.

Two paramilitary groups dealt in drugs. The INLA and the UDA. What set them apart? Self destruction from within.

paky · 14-12-2010 10:27pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

WTF are you talking about?

Which side are you talking about? Who's on ''my side''? I only asked you a question, which you failed to answer by the way.

If dissident republicans think murderers are scumbags that don't deserve to be ''forgiven or forgotten'' then I guess I do have a lot in common with them, that's fine by me.

sounded like a rhetorical question to me.

wtf like?

dont harp on about hurt to me mate

MagicMarker · 14-12-2010 10:30pm

paky wrote: »

sounded like a rhetorical question to me.

wtf like?

dont harp on about hurt to me mate

Well done, you still haven't answered my original question, or any subsequent questions.

As for your ''hurt''....

paky · 14-12-2010 10:32pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well done, you still haven't answered my original question, or any subsequent questions.

As for your ''hurt''....

would i forgive andd forget? yes i have. is that good enough?

MagicMarker · 14-12-2010 10:38pm

paky wrote: »

would i forgive andd forget? yes i have. is that good enough?

So you've forgiven someone who murdered someone close to you, well done.

Now would you vote them into a position of power given they've murdered a loved one?

paky · 14-12-2010 10:40pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

So you've forgiven someone who murdered someone close to you, well done.

Now would you vote them into a position of power given they've murdered a loved one?

well done? who the fcuk do you think your talking to?

MagicMarker · 14-12-2010 10:43pm

paky wrote: »

well done? who the fcuk do you think your talking to?

I'll take that as a no then?

Black Swan · 14-12-2010 10:55pm

REMINDER...
Some of the above posts are becoming a bit personal, which is not allowed by our charter or boards.ie policies. Please address the content of posts, and do not attack the poster. Thanks. BL

junder · 15-12-2010 12:31am

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Exactly. There are plenty of things to have a go at the Republican movement over in terms of activities they did without resorting to blatant lies.

Two paramilitary groups dealt in drugs. The INLA and the UDA. What set them apart? Self destruction from within.

If you want evidence of provies involvement in drugs, take yourselfs along to the northern exposer club near castle court in Belfast. It's a late night possibly Illegal after hours late night club. The place is a wash with drugs and guess who runs the place and who the bouncers are, and here's a clue it's not loyalists or the INLA

Monty Burnz · 15-12-2010 12:44am

Rebelheart wrote: »

Come now; are you really trying to contend that the supposedly "civilised" British government should not be held to a higher standard of accountability than the supposed "terrorists" in the Irish Republican Army? You're supposed to have a higher moral ground; you're supposed to be on a permanent high of moral indignation against this latest phase in native Irish resistance to English/British rule. Then the mask slips.

How very revealing.

What? You say 'it was a war', 'regrettable stuff happened', 'those children were a legitimate target, and it was the police's fault anyway'. Then on the other hand you go nuts over possible collusion between the British forces in the 'war'. If it was a war, you have to accept it - why would they not collude? If it wasn't a war (I don't accept it was), then you definitely have a case - but you have the murder of hundreds of innocent civilians to explain in that case. You can't have it both ways.

And nobody has explained to me how Robert McCartney died in this war, and his murderers yet to be called to account, even though the Shinners know exactly who did it (hint:it was a bunch of them). And it's not clear how the McCartney family being chased out of their homes trying to seek justice for their butchered brother is part of a noble war.

And the murder of Jim Curran is rather confusing in the context of this war. Was this part of the IRA's war for drugs?

Rebelheart · 15-12-2010 12:53am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

'those children were a legitimate target'.

Before continuing, if you could reference the IRA statement which says this, you might redeem some of your credibility here.

When you do, I'll give you a similar statement from the British government saying children were murdered in British state bombing campaigns in Iraq because they were "legitimate targets".

Monty Burnz · 15-12-2010 12:53am

dlofnep wrote: »

That didn't answer his question.

The myth that the IRA trafficked drugs is bogus. The IRA have done some questionable things in the past, but peddle drugs is not one of them. They were pro-active with the removal of drug-dealers, and not for their personal gain as some spin-media outlets would have you believe.

Provide evidence (not opinion), that the IRA was heavily involved in the drugs trade.

Collecting protection money from drug dealers is not technically drug dealing I guess - but it's still facilitating and profiting from the drug scourge. It's just part of their wider racketeering business model I guess.

A Sinn Fein election agent and former IRA prisoner, Richard O'Donnell, 56, of Racecourse Road, Downpatrick, was sentenced to four and a half years, on Wednesday, after pleading guilty to the attempted blackmail of a local businessman.
The court heard that the businessman was told that if he did not pay the local IRA he would be "put in a hole". He contacted the PSNI and O'Donnell was arrested as he tried to collect the demand.
Remarkably, Sinn Fein has supported the convicted criminal. Local party councillor, Eamonn Mac Con Midhe (formerly McConvey), said: "Dickie O'Donnell is a well-known and well-respected republican."

Only two weeks ago in Dublin, another Sinn Fein election worker, Bernard Dempsey, was sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of a man from the Liberties, who had insulted him for accepting money from local drug dealers.
Dempsey, the one-time Provisional IRA boss in south-inner Dublin, was convicted last Friday week of murdering local man James Curran, 42, in the Green Lizard pub, in April last year. He was also the prime suspect in the attempted murder of a key witness in a manslaughter case against local republican vigilantes six years ago.
Dempsey was the key suspect for shooting Alan Byrne, a 23-year-old friend of Liberties heroin addict and HIV sufferer, Josie Dwyer, who was beaten to death by a republican mob in May 1996. All those involved with Sinn Fein supporters at the time, and a short time earlier, had attended a meeting addressed by Gerry Adams.
Dempsey and his Sinn Fein associates held themselves out as being opposed to drug dealing criminals.

Opposed to them if they didn't pay them their cut, I think he means.

Sinn Fein need to stop pretending this doesn't go on in their party and root out the thugs and criminals that riddle it - pretending they don't exist makes them look ridiculous and damages the party amongst the demographic that isn't obsessed with NI and socialism. Can they do it?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/conviction-shows-sf-is-still-linked-to-ira-crime-despite-new-bid-for-power-131919.html

Wolfe Tone · 15-12-2010 12:56am

junder wrote: »

If you want evidence of provies involvement in drugs, take yourselfs along to the northern exposer club near castle court in Belfast. It's a late night possibly Illegal after hours late night club. The place is a wash with drugs and guess who runs the place and who the bouncers are, and here's a clue it's loyalists or the INLA

lol

Monty Burnz · 15-12-2010 12:56am

Rebelheart wrote: »

Before continuing, if you could reference the IRA statement which says this, you might redeem some of your credibility here.

When you do, I'll give you a similar statement from the British government saying the murder of children as a result of British state bombing campaigns in Iraq was because they were legitimate targets.

To be honest, I can't remember their excuse for murdering Tim Parry (aged 12) and toddler Jonathan Bell (aged 3) so I had to paraphrase. I'm pretty sure it was the fault of the British though. Maybe you can recall it?

Rebelheart · 15-12-2010 1:02am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

To be honest, I can't remember their excuse for murdering Tim Parry (aged 12) and toddler Jonathan Bell (aged 3) so I had to paraphrase. I'm pretty sure it was the fault of the British though. Maybe you can recall it?

Oh but I would never, ever make a claim like yours unless I had verbatim evidence before doing so. I've been following Irish politics since I was seven, when I read Bobby Sands's One Day in My Life, and I can safely say that the IRA has never said what you've claimed they said.

Why invent stuff?

Monty Burnz · 15-12-2010 1:11am

Rebelheart wrote: »

Oh but I would never, ever make a claim like yours unless I had verbatim evidence before doing so. I've been following Irish politics since I was seven, when I read Bobby Sands's One Day in My Life, and I can safely say that the IRA has never said what you've claimed they said.

Why invent stuff?

That wasn't a claim, that was putting words on their actions, based on them placing bombs in shopping streets populated by families. If they didn't think they were targets, why murder them?

More astute readers will notice you haven't actually addressed any of the points I've raised in my last several posts. They may wonder why.

Rebelheart · 15-12-2010 1:19am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That wasn't a claim, that was putting words on their actions, based on them placing bombs in shopping streets populated by families. If they didn't think they were targets, why murder them?

So, if children are killed in a British military attack (as very many have been), be it in Basra or Belfast, then "putting words on their actions" makes those children "legitimate targets" in the view of the British?

After all, in your impeccable logic, if the British state didn't think children in Belfast, Derry or Basra were "legitimate targets" why did they murder them?

Monty Burnz · 15-12-2010 1:29am

Still dodging the points raised in several posts because you want to attack a straw man. I can see how that is easier for you.:)

Rebelheart · 15-12-2010 1:36am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Still dodging the points raised in several posts because you want to attack a straw man. I can see how that is easier for you.:)

Oh no I'm not. It's your fine self who's dodging. You made a (ridiculous) claim that the IRA view children as "legitimate targets", so now it's up to you to support it or withdraw it. Otherwise you've little credibility here.

When you've done that, your other points can be taken seriously.

Monty Burnz · 15-12-2010 1:46am

Rebelheart wrote: »

Oh no I'm not. It's your fine self who's dodging. You made a (ridiculous) claim that the IRA view children as "legitimate targets", so now it's up to you to support it or withdraw it. Otherwise you've little credibility here.

When you've done that, your other points can be taken seriously.

The IRA detonated bombs where they knew children would be and killed some children. It seems to that it should really be the IRA who has to explain why they did this, not me. Readers will make up their own minds.

Nothing to say about Sinn Fein and drugs? Robert McCartney and witness intimidation? Jim Curran's execution? I can understand why.

Fratton Fred · 15-12-2010 1:51am

So what did SF/IRA get in return for teaching columbian rebels how to make car bombs then?

Rebelheart · 15-12-2010 2:07am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The IRA detonated bombs where they knew children would be and killed some children. It seems to that it should really be the IRA who has to explain why they did this, not me. Readers will make up their own minds.

Nothing to say about Sinn Fein and drugs? Robert McCartney and witness intimidation? Jim Curran's execution? I can understand why.

This should be obvious but let's go. The British fired guns into civilian crowds where - excuse the tautology- they knew children would be and killed some children. The British sent bombs into civilian areas in Iraq where - excuse the tautology once again - they knew children would be and killed some children.

In fact, if you really, really, really want to extend this (rationally speaking, you shouldn't), you could, by the same logic, say that the British state was directly (few would dispute they were indirectly responsible) responsible for the genocide in East Timor and the murder of street children in Chile because they armed and supported Suharto's genocide and Pinochet's fascism to the hilt, in the full knowledge that those arms were going to kill thousands of children, just as previous arms/bombs/Hawk fighter jets had done. Their existing knowledge of the consequences of their actions made them guilty of the mass murder of children, and many others, when they supplied those weapons.

Nodin · 15-12-2010 2:10am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Collecting protection money from drug dealers is not technically drug dealing I guess - but it's still facilitating and profiting from the drug scourge. It's just part of their wider racketeering business model I guess.

Opposed to them if they didn't pay them their cut, I think he means.

Sinn Fein need to stop pretending this doesn't go on in their party and root out the thugs and criminals that riddle it - pretending they don't exist makes them look ridiculous and damages the party amongst the demographic that isn't obsessed with NI and socialism. Can they do it?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/conviction-shows-sf-is-still-linked-to-ira-crime-despite-new-bid-for-power-131919.html

Theres nothing in that post linking the PIRA to the drug trade....

canttakeajoke · 15-12-2010 3:56am

I'm very anti Sinn Fein from life experience, but they are only poodles compared with FF. All the robberies they committed since 1922 didn't amount to a fraction of what the state lost when ff & there banking buddies robbed us. I mean all anyone knows is we are borrowing billions for mysterious but vital unknowns for the Irish economy??. The people who tell us they need billions are wanted by the police in some cases!
When the money is paid nobody knows if its been skimmed or even getting to bondholders.

They lost us sovereignty which is something even SF failed to do in its bid to take over the country.

Hats off to FF, not even a Roma Gypsies could have figured out this fraud!
It doesn't matter what they leak about Adams, the only mass destruction left for him now is if he gets FF back in power through a coalition

Athlone_Bhoy · 15-12-2010 4:35am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So what did SF/IRA get in return for teaching columbian rebels how to make car bombs then?

In fairness do you really believe FARC would need the IRA to make a car bomb?

Maybe that was their cocaine floating off Cork?

Monty Burnz · 15-12-2010 10:45am

Rebelheart wrote: »

This should be obvious but let's go. The British fired guns into civilian crowds where - excuse the tautology- they knew children would be and killed some children. The British sent bombs into civilian areas in Iraq where - excuse the tautology once again - they knew children would be and killed some children.

What is this obseesion with the British? I'm talking about Siin Fein/IRA. The British government is not standing for election in my country, is it?

Still not a word about Sinn Fein/IRA drug profiteering, racketeering and the murders of McCartney, Curran, or the intimidation of families and witnesses. You can keep avoiding it, but I'll keep pointing out that you are avoiding it.

WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

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