Comparing the competitiveness of the EPL vs La Liga

Ok so this was something that came up last night and got me thinking. A statement that I hear mooted an awful lot by Premiership fans is that "La Liga is just a glorified SPL" in that it is a 2 horse race between Barcelona and Madrid whereas "the Premiership is the best league in the world".

Now, it is something I hear a lot, but I believe it to be untrue. IMO a lot of EPL fans have no business talking about other leagues outside of the EPL as, in my experience, a lot of them don't actually watch football outside of the Premiership.

I took the last 18 years as the sample. To explain this, I was originally going to take the past 10 or 15 years but I decided to stretch this so as to have more statistics to work with. Also, since they keep mentioning EPL, I figured we may as well look at this since the beginning of the EPL.

I'll put the important stats in bold for the TL/DR brigade.

The first thing to look at is how competitive the respective leagues themselves are.

PREMIERSHIP WINNERS IN THE LAST 18 YEARS:
1992–93 Manchester United
1993–94 Manchester United
1994–95 Blackburn Rovers
1995–96 Manchester United
1996–97 Manchester United
1997–98 Arsenal
1998–99 Manchester United
1999–00 Manchester United
2000–01 Manchester United
2001–02 Arsenal
2002–03 Manchester United
2003–04 Arsenal
2004–05 Chelsea
2005–06 Chelsea
2006–07 Manchester United
2007–08 Manchester United
2008–09 Manchester United
2009–10 Chelsea


# of winners in this period: 4


--VS--

LA LIGA WINNERS IN THE LAST 18 YEARS:
1992–93 Barcelona
1993–94 Barcelona
1994–95 Real Madrid
1995–96 Atlético Madrid
1996–97 Real Madrid
1997–98 Barcelona
1998–99 Barcelona
1999–00 Deportivo de La Coruña
2000–01 Real Madrid
2001–02 Valencia
2002–03 Real Madrid
2003–04 Valencia
2004–05 Barcelona
2005–06 Barcelona
2006–07 Real Madrid
2007–08 Real Madrid
2008–09 Barcelona
2009–10 Barcelona


# of winners in this period: 5


In terms of how competitive the leagues themselves are, this would immediately question the logic of championing the EPL as ultra competitive whereas La Liga is a 2 horse race?

Now let's look at how competitive the respective leagues have been on a European Stage:

Champions League victories in past 18 years:
England - 3 (Manchester United 99 and 08; and Liverpool 2005)
Spain - 5 (Real Madrid 98, 00, 02; and Barcelona 06 and 09)

UEFA Cup/Europa League Victories in past 18 years:
England: 1 (Liverpool 2001)
Spain: 4 (Sevilla 2006, 2007; Valencia 2004; Athletico 2010)

UEFA Cup Winners Cup winners in this time period:
England: 2 (Arsenal 94 and Chelsea 98)
Spain: 2 (Zaragoza 95 and Barcelona 97)


So to summarise:

European trophies in this period:

Premiership teams: 6
La Liga teams: 11

Number of domestic league winners in this period:

Premiership: 4
La Liga: 5

Also, if you want to take into account the quality of player in these leagues. In this designated time frame, Spanish clubs have housed the World Player of the year on 11 occassions (albeit with some being contentious as Ronaldo won for his time spent at Barca despite being an Inter player by then) whereas the Premiership has housed 1.

So in conclusion, when you break it down, it would appear that the Premiership is far closer to being a "glorified SPL" than La Liga is? Granted La Liga this season is a genuine 2 horse race, whereas the Premiership for the last 2 years has been wider open than in previous seasons. However, even last season, when it was wide open, it was the same 2 teams that occupied 1st and second as in most of the previous seasons.

What are your thoughts on this? I'm hoping that this will be an objective debate.

Frisbee

Hold on. Are you comparing competitiveness or the quality of the league?

If you are comparing competitiveness within a given league then there is no point having those European trophies there as they have zero to do with the league.

If you are trying to say which league is 'better' then the European trophies are very important.

Frisbee

btw no stupid willy waving in here please. Don't ruin what could be a promising thread by acting like muppets.

gimmick

Great post.

Something I would also like to add for La Liga is the competitiveness of the CL spots. It is very rarely the same 4, unlike England where it was the same for how many seasons on the trot?

People seem to make out that the EPL has been an anyone can win it type league, but that simply has never been the case before this season. It has always been Manyoo and a.n.other going for the title, while another 2 were clear for the CL spots.

The whole glorified SPL think makes me laugh as well.

RGDATA!

gimmick wrote: »

People seem to make out that the EPL has been an anyone can win it type league

Who makes that out? that hasn't been the case for 20 years. But then I've never heard anyone claim that either.

gimmick

The people who say la Liga is a glorified SPL.

Personally I think that the EPL is more competitive, especially this year. Anyone can beat anyone on their day whereas in La Liga the top two win almost every week.

Quick comparisment of the top two in each league shows...

In La Liga:
Barca have 40/45 points - 2.67 points per game.
Madrid have 38/45 points - 2.53 points per game.

In the EPL:
Arsenal have 32/48 points - 2.0 points per game.
City have 32/51 points - 1.88 points per game.

Personally I reckon that the best in La Liga is better than the best in the EPL, but the EPL as a league is more competitive.

Frisbee

Frisbee wrote: »

Hold on. Are you comparing competitiveness or the quality of the league?

If you are comparing competitiveness within a given league then there is no point having those European trophies there as they have zero to do with the league.

If you are trying to say which league is 'better' then the European trophies are very important.

I'm looking at both I suppose.

Competitiveness being guaged by how many teams manage to win it, and quality guaged by their success in Europe and the recognition levels the players in each league get.

I am not trying to say one or the other is "better". I'm trying to disprove the idea that the Spanish league is a 2 horse race whilst the rest of the teams are uncompetitive, which is a commonly mentioned idea. For example, the sky commetators alluded to it last night during the Barca vs Sociedad game. That idea may hold this season and last, but it was said in such a way to imply that this is always the case, whilst Sky will always champion the PL as a super competitive league which is always "wide open".

PHB

Just on an utterly side note, one thing I always found cool was:

2000–01 Manchester United - Real Madrid
2001–02 Arsenal - Valencia
2002–03 Manchester United - Real Madrid
2003–04 Arsenal - Valencia
2004–05 Chelsea - Barcelona
2005–06 Chelsea - Barcelona
2006–07 Manchester United - Real Madrid
2007–08 Manchester United - Real Madrid

Barca broke it up in 08-09, but for a good while, I used to root for Madrid in La Liga for this very reason

Frisbee

PHB wrote: »

Just on an utterly side note, one thing I always found cool was:

2000–01 Manchester United - Real Madrid
2001–02 Arsenal - Valencia
2002–03 Manchester United - Real Madrid
2003–04 Arsenal - Valencia
2004–05 Chelsea - Barcelona
2005–06 Chelsea - Barcelona
2006–07 Manchester United - Real Madrid
2007–08 Manchester United - Real Madrid

Barca broke it up in 08-09, but for a good while, I used to root for Madrid in La Liga for this very reason

That's pretty cool.

Let's get shít done Valencia!

UpTheSlashers

In terms of this year alone. The EPL is more competitive and, IMO, more exciting to watch than La Liga. La Liga so far this season has been Barca and Madrid taking the piss out of everyone else which, in its own way, has also been very entertaining but by no means "competitive". Case in point, Barca last night. It was great to watch the 900 passes, great finshing etc. but I doubt anyone was on the edge of their seat thinking Real Sociedad could come into it at any time.

Edit:

Deleted User wrote: »

I am not trying to say one or the other is "better". I'm trying to disprove the idea that the Spanish league is a 2 horse race whilst the rest of the teams are uncompetitive, which is a commonly mentioned idea. For example, the sky commetators alluded to it last night during the Barca vs Sociedad game. That idea may hold this season and last, but it was said in such a way to imply that this is always the case, whilst Sky will always champion the PL as a super competitive league which is always "wide open".

Just seen this now, fair enough.

SantryRed

The EPL is more competitive this year as the top 3 teams have dropped in quality and finishing off games. However, La Liga has by far the better teams. Another reason why we see Barca and Real demolishing teams is because in Spain, teams don't set up to defend against them, a lot of them have the Blackpool approach.

UpTheSlashers

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

Also, OP, are you talking about competitiveness on a domestic scale or in Europe?

I tried to address both by looking at the number of winners in each league as well as the success of each league on a continental scale.

ilovelamp2000

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm trying to disprove the idea that the Spanish league is a 2 horse race whilst the rest of the teams are uncompetitive, which is a commonly mentioned idea.

It's not a myth. Right now La Liga is a two horse race and it will be for years to come until Real and Barca mess things up. Thanks to the way TV deals are now structured in Spain the top two have a huge financial advantage over the rest of the league.

The fact that both of them scored their highest ever amount of points in the league last season is testament to the fact that it is a two horse race.

There are 8 points separating 2nd and third in La Liga. 12 points separating 1st and 4th. 31 points separating top and bottom.

In the Premiership there's one point separating 2nd and 3rd. 1 point separating first and 4th. 21 points separating top and bottom.

Historical analysis is all well and good, but that tells you what happened in the past as opposed to which league is more competitive right now. Which is evident to anyone who looks at this years league table.

OhNoYouDidn't

Interesting thread.

As SantryRed alludeded to, the reason the EPL is more 'competitive' this year is the compartive decline in all the major players on the pitch, bar Manchester City, which is a whole different debate, wheras the two Spanish clubs in question are light years ahead and improving.

No-one in England is good enough to turn it into a two horse race.

But in general, I agree with the OP, that the majority of talking down of the Spanish game comes from people who don't watch much football.

speedboatchase

ilovelamp2000 wrote: »

It's not a myth. Right now La Liga is a two horse race and it will be for years to come until Real and Barca mess things up. Thanks to the way TV deals are now structured in Spain the top two have a huge financial advantage over the rest of the league.

The fact that both of them scored their highest ever amount of points in the league last season is testament to the fact that it is a two horse race.

There are 8 points separating 2nd and third in La Liga. 12 points separating 1st and 4th. 31 points separating top and bottom.

In the Premiership there's one point separating 2nd and 3rd. 1 point separating first and 4th. 21 points separating top and bottom.

Historical analysis is all well and good, but that tells you what happened in the past as opposed to which league is more competitive right now. Which is evident to anyone who looks at this years league table.

Agree with everything written here, there's absolutely nothing to 'disprove'. Barcelona and Real might be the best two teams in the world (Barca certainly are) but it's nowhere near as competitive as EPL, Serie A or Bundesliga. It's hard to see how, as it currently stands and will continue with their TV right, it isn't a glorified SPL imo

orourkeda

How is it possible to compare the relative competitiveness of any two given leagues?

jaykay74

As of now Paddy Powers have the 3rd fav in Spain at 100/1 whereas in England Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and City are 6/1 or less. Historically La Liga had greater variety but that era is over for now whereas in England its the opposite. Things are opening up a bit in terms of competitivesness between the top few.

orourkeda

jaykay74 wrote: »

As of now Paddy Powers have the 3rd fav in Spain at 100/1 whereas in England Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and City are 6/1 or less. Historically La Liga had greater variety but that era is over for now whereas in England its the opposite. Things are opening up a bit in terms of competitivesness between the top few.

with Barcelona gaining a significant competitive advantage with their new sponsorship deal La Liga is likely to become less and less competitive

Dolph Starbeam

Very good comparison, i must say the glorified SPL remark that does get thrown around is a complete joke. The Uefa Cup/Europa League victories shows the strenght of depth of the quality in La Liga too. Another stat in the last 5 seasons La Liga has had 7 different teams finish in the top 4 positions, Barca, Real, Valencia, Sevilla, Villareal, A. Madrid and Osasuna. Whereas the EPL has only had 5 different teams finish in the top 4, Spurs last year was the only change to the top 4 in the last 5 years.

As has just been pointed out the reason that the EPL is so close this season is really because the regular top 4 have not been good at all, they have all dropped bucket loads of points because of there own mistakes. As it was pointed out in another thread the La Liga sides do not rely on the TV money like teams in the EPL do. In Spain most teams develop there own players and compete for places quiet well. In the last few season a few sides have had financial difficulty, but that is not all to do with the lack of tv revenue.

I don't think anyone can dispute the fact that the previous 2 seasons it has been a 2 horse race, saying that EPL has been a 2 or 3 horse race for a lot longer than La Liga has.

orourkeda

orourkeda wrote: »

with Barcelona gaining a significant competitive advantage with their new sponsorship deal La Liga is likely to become less and less competitive

I'm pretty sure that a sizeable chunk of that money will go towards alleviating their debts.......

The financial turmoil that Laporta left behind (and to a degree, also inherited) was the main justification that Rossell used to impose the shirt sponsorship in the 1st place.

UpTheSlashers

SantryRed wrote: »

The EPL is more competitive this year as the top 3 teams have dropped in quality and finishing off games. However, La Liga has by far the better teams. Another reason why we see Barca and Real demolishing teams is because in Spain, teams don't set up to defend against them, a lot of them have the Blackpool approach.

You cant really judge the current quality of the teams until they come up against each other. Obviously Chelsea have been poor in recent weeks but they have had injuries and behind-the-scenes-difficulites. I dont think Barca and Real are "by far" better than United or Arsenal at the moment.

OhNoYouDidn't

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

You cant really judge the current quality of the teams until they come up against each other. Obviously Chelsea have been poor in recent weeks but they have had injuries and behind-the-scenes-difficulites. I dont think Barca and Real are "by far" better than United or Arsenal at the moment.

Bit early to be drinking, isn't it?

cson

Have to say in terms of technical ability La Liga > Premiership.

Most of the time I much prefer watching a La Liga match.

Frisbee

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

I dont think Barca and Real are "by far" better than United or Arsenal at the moment.

Really? I do.

And the fact we have a 50% chance of getting one of them in the next round of the Champions League makes me very sad...

ilovelamp2000

speedboatchase wrote: »

Agree with everything written here, there's absolutely nothing to 'disprove'. Barcelona and Real might be the best two teams in the world (Barca certainly are) but it's nowhere near as competitive as EPL, Serie A or Bundesliga. It's hard to see how, as it currently stands and will continue with their TV right, it isn't a glorified SPL imo

I don't think it's a glorified SPL either. It's a very good league to watch, but it's still a two horse race.

PHB

Money means everything. Long-term, money is going to be a primary factor in this. Granted there are exceptions, and good management surely makes a difference, but money makes a difference.

TV revenue is key. The PL spreads it out. La Liga localises it at the top. Long-term, that is going to have a massive effect. Money will ultimately lead to higher levels.

The PL was pulling away for quite a while, but Madrid pumped a ****load of money into their club, shifting the balance imo. Barca also have peaked after incredible management.

Serie A are a good example, because as league they have dropped below the PL certainly and La Liga. It's because of money.

As such, I think the structures in place will lead to the PL staying more completive at the top.

At the same time though, the PL has seen a massive influx of new money. Chelsea and City both are competing because of huge cash investment. Otherwise it'd still be United and Arsenal competing.

yahoo_moe

ilovelamp2000 wrote: »

Thanks to the way TV deals are now structured in Spain the top two have a huge financial advantage over the rest of the league.

England's CL teams have a huge advantage over the rest too though. Even within the 'equal distribution' of rights money, there are merit payments of about 800k per league table place and facility payments that pay more to teams that were on TV more.

In total, that's a difference of about £20m from top to bottom with CL money still to be added in for the top 4 each year.

m@cc@

MOG7 wrote: »

Whereas the EPL has only had 5 different teams finish in the top 4, Spurs last year was the only change to the top 4 in the last 5 years.

Everton finished 4th in 2005.

eZe^

This year La Liga is going to be ultra uncompetitive when it comes to the winners. For the past few years Barca/ Madrid have been increasing the gap between the other 18 teams in the league. The proposed equal distribution of tv rights may sway it a little bit, but I can't see it changing much. There has been a large power shift to Spain in the past two seasons, with players like Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Alonso, Benzema, Mascherano, etc leaving big teams to try and ply their trade in La Liga. So that's been a big influence on how much stronger Barca and Real have become.

However, the current Barcelona and Real Madrid teams would be the exact same in EPL, Barcelona are literally sweeping aside teams at a canter at the moment. The level of consistency they've reached in the past 3 seasons is astounding, and I think they'd walk the EPL just as easily as they are La Liga at the moment. Remember it wasn't long ago where Villareal finished above Barca by a good 10 points. This Barca side is one of the greatest that has played the game imo, and it's to the detriment of the rest of the league that they are around at the same time as a Real Madrid team that costs nearly 500 million euro.

Also, the reason the EPL is becoming more competitive is because the top teams are getting significantly weaker every season, and Man City have infinite cash reserves, with Spurs slowly building a lovely team.

I've ALWAYS been adamant that La Liga has been the more entertaining league to watch over the past decade, however this season I'll gladly concede that the EPL has been more exciting. The level of football in La Liga is just as good as it has been, but the EPL is throwing up some great results, and teams like Bolton/ Blackpool are playing attractive football to boot. It's been an excellent season, the best I can remember in my lifetime. I've loved it to be honest, and long may it continue, the 'big 4's' stranglehold was broken last season, and that has probably been the single best thing to happen in English football in a long while.

Look at the supposed weaker teams in La Liga, Almeria just trounced Sevilla, who albeit have been hopeless this season, are a team that on their day can beat anyone in europe. Valencia stuck it to Man Utd pretty well in the CL, and were unlucky to lose against them at the Mestalla. Man Utd have never actually scored a goal in their 4 encounters with Villareal. Also, Atletico Madrid knocked out Liverpool in the Europa League last season, they went on to win the trophy.

The rest of La Liga is extremely competitive, bar the big two, who are boringly predictable at this stage, but I think that's more down to how unbelievable both these Madrid and Barca teams are, rather than how sh*t someone like Sociedad are. I think EPL fans would be very surprised at the standard of La Liga outside of the big boys, and most people I know who have taken the time out to watch a game like Zaragoza vs Malaga (ended 3-5) have agreed that the teams are very technically skilled.

Another thing that does my fcuking nut in is this myth that La Liga players can't defend, over the past 5 seasons I remember Sid Lowe comparing the goals scored in each league, and the EPL with La Liga were almost equal every season (bar 08/09 where Barca's treble winning team scored a disgusting amount of goals). Just because football in La Liga is more attack minded doesn't mean more goals are scored, the stats show that.

But basically I agree with the general consensus that La Liga this season is less exciting than the EPL, which I must give credit to and admit has been excellent. However, there is a general consensus among British Isles folks to label La Liga as easier to score and belittle a strikers goal tally, while at the same time boast at how awesome the EPL is when there's a high scoring game (Andy Gray being the PERFECT example of this). However, long may La Liga be an absolute snoozefest as long as Barca are trampling Madrid 5-0 I'll sleep a happy man at night.


tl;dr version - La Liga is boring at the moment because Barca/ Real are genuinely too good. EPL is more exciting for sure this year, but I still think it's technically weaker than La Liga on a whole.

Warper

Yes, La Liga is a two horse race this season. Yes, TV rights are scewed towards Barca and Real. But people forget the ownership issues are different in Spain than in England. Clubs in Spain are mainly owned by their members which means no rich Arab/US sugar-daddy coming in and buying the club. Which means no Man City/Chelsea type scenario having to pump millions in just to catch up with was effectively the monopoly of Man Utd.

Yes the EPL is probably more competitive at the top this year but that is mainly because of the mediocrity of the "top" teams performances. The reality is though come next May it will still just be Man Utd and probably Chelsea fighting for the title.

Leagues should not be based on competitiveness anyways, they should be based on quality. If you take out the 2 super-teams who are clearly streets ahead of every other team in the World, La Liga is just as competitive as any other League.

speedboatchase

eZe^ wrote: »

tl;dr version - La Liga is boring at the moment because Barca/ Real are genuinely too good. EPL is more exciting for sure this year, but I still think it's technically weaker than La Liga on a whole.

Exactly right. Those of us that think La Liga is an uncompetitive two-horse race aren't saying that the standard of the league is crap, or that teams like Valencia/Villareal are rubbish, we're just saying that the last five years in La Liga have been a new era, and one that seems to be getting even more extreme as Barca/Real don't even draw against other teams, score bucketloads of goals (8-0, 5-0, 3-0 and 5-0 Barca's last four games) and increase the distance between themselves and the other 18. It's just not that interesting or competitive since the actual outcome of the league is decided over two games.

That's not saying Real and Barca aren't brilliant, they are, but the way TV rights are etc it's very hard not to see why

eZe^

And I agree..

yahoo_moe

Also, more generally, I'd leave quality (as measured by European trophies or World Player titles) out of this. That's an argument about the depth of the league but Sevilla, for instance, won two UEFA Cups without ever quite looking like potential league winners.

Competitiveness is about how many teams have had a decent chance at winning the league over any given time. Apart from the teams who've won it, the PL has seen Villa, Newcastle and Liverpool all come close but Villa and Newcastle were so long ago that they really have no impact on the league as it is now.

The last season and a bit have changed this debate big-time as the two leagues have gone in opposite directions. Before that, it was much of a muchness. Remember, Barca were third as recently as '07-'08.

Fr Tod Umptious

orourkeda wrote: »

How is it possible to compare the relative competitiveness of any two given leagues?

If you had all the time in the world you could get really deep into it.

One possible way would be to to go through each league and for each season do the following.

1. Determine at which round the league was mathematically won
2. Determine at which round the eventual 3rd place team were mathematically eliminated from winning.
3....
4...
.
.
19. Determine at which round the eventual last place team were mathematically eliminated from winning.

Then come up with some conclusion based on something like 'over the sample number of seasons more teams were in contention for longer in league x over league y'

Dolph Starbeam

m@cc@ wrote: »

Everton finished 4th in 2005.

Well that was 04/05 season, i just picked the last 5 seasons off the top of my head. In 04/05 in La Liga Betis finished in the top 4 which would make it in the last 6 seasons the EPL has 6 different sides in tthe top 4 compared to La Liga having 8 different sides in the top 4.

dfx-

It can only really be judged away from honour lists. That can reflect teams who spend a couple of years in the limelight and then back to the doldrums. Mallorca got within seconds last season to the top four, but only because they overspent and paid for it by losing their European spot.

Sky Sports HD 1 and 1: Super Sunday: Wigan v Hull

Sky Sports HD 2 and 2: Sunday afternoon game: Getafe v Malaga.

Which?

Soby

dfx- wrote: »

It can only really be judged away from honour lists. That can reflect teams who spend a couple of years in the limelight and then back to the doldrums. Mallorca got within seconds last season to the top four, but only because they overspent and paid for it by losing their European spot.

Sky Sports HD 1 and 1: Super Sunday: Wigan v Hull

Sky Sports HD 2 and 2: Sunday afternoon game: Getafe v Malaga.

Which?

1 any day of the week.Dont think id ever sit down and watch a La Liga match that wasnt Barca or Madrid tbh.There would be certain PL games you would not watch but very few

OhNoYouDidn't

Soby wrote: »

1 any day of the week.Dont think id ever sit down and watch a La Liga match that wasnt Barca or Madrid tbh.There would be certain PL games you would not watch but very few

I think you would find yourself in a sizable minority on that one...

jaykay74

dfx- wrote: »

It can only really be judged away from honour lists. That can reflect teams who spend a couple of years in the limelight and then back to the doldrums. Mallorca got within seconds last season to the top four, but only because they overspent and paid for it by losing their European spot.

Sky Sports HD 1 and 1: Super Sunday: Wigan v Hull

Sky Sports HD 2 and 2: Sunday afternoon game: Getafe v Malaga.

Which?

In fairness Hull are near the bottom of the championship never mind the premier league.

eZe^

Getafe vs Malaga every day of the week. It wasn't long ago (2 and a half seasons maybe) that Getafe were putting it up to Bayern Munich in the Uefa Cup, narrowly missing out due to an extra time equaliser putting Munich through on away goals. Getafe had Saldado, Granero, and De La Red playing some lovely football.

bamboozling

Great thread and its something I've often wondered about. I think that La Liga is a more competitive league due to nature of the competition where different teams end up in the upper echelons of the league and the teams which do well in Europe. I've looked at the top 4 of both Spain and England from 2000-2010 and also the semi finalists of the UEFA Cup from 2000-2010. By looking at the top 4 we'll see how many teams can get near the top and the frequency with which they achieve it. The UEFA Cup is a barometer of how the middle clubs fare.

La Liga top 4 between 2000-2010. 13 teams. Barcelona 10 times, Real 10, Deportivo 4, Valencia 7, Sevilla 3, Atletico 2, Villareal 2, Zaragoza, Mallorca, Sociedad, Celta Vigo, Betis, Osasuna 1.

EPL top 4 between 2000-2010. 8 teams. Man U 11 times, Arsenal 11 , Liverpool 8, Chelsea 8, Leeds 2, Newcastle 2, Everton 1, Spurs 1.

This shows that in La Liga teams can compete well with one another and there is variety in the teams which come towards the top. In England on the other hand it was pretty much a closed shop with the big 4 from 2004 till about 2009 they dominated every year. Now I think thats changing. Man City and Spurs are rising, Liverpool falling away, United and Chelsea on the wane. In La Liga Barca and Real are dominating but there is still great competition among the rest of the league.

In the Uefa Cup from 2000 to 2010 Spanish teams have made the semi finals 9 times compared with 5 times from England. Of those 9 from Spain they included 8 different teams and 4 winners, Valencia, Sevilla twice and Atletico. Liverpool won it once in this time period from England.

I'm of the opinion that this shows the competition among lesser teams is greater than England and these teams are better in Europe than their contempory English teams. I think from top to bottom Spain is stronger than England and more competitive. However England has been really been competitive this year. Only after two or three seasons will we be able to judge whether this will be a frequent occurence or whether its just a flash in the proverbial pan.

dfx-

jaykay74 wrote: »

In fairness Hull are near the bottom of the championship never mind the premier league.

It has happened. Wigan v Hull on the television in the Premier League. I still have the mental scars from watching from it.

I don't think there can be a more infuriating team in La Liga to watch than Malaga with time wasting, diving and cheating, so I've tried to level it out..

KrazeeEyezKilla

I prefered La Liga in the early 2000's when you had Valencia & La Coruna winning the title and Real Sociedad only missing out by two points. There was one season when the top six were only seperated by about 7 or 8 points. As great as Barcelona are to watch and as open as the CL places are, a great league should have a bit of competitiveness at the top, Madrid finishing second with 96 points last season was a farce.

The EPL is better this season than it's been in a long time but I'd wait until the end of the season before making a proprer judgement. If Man City, Spurs or even Arsenal win the league than things have changed. If it's Man Utd again with City & Spurs in 4th & 5th than it's pretty much the same as it's always been.

dfx-

The standard reliable crazy league is Ligue 1. But their best performances in Europe seem to be with a dominant team like Lyon or Marseille in the past. Not with Nantes or Lille or Lens or Auxerre or even PSG. The league table a few weeks ago from memory was muddled with teams everywhere, no set pattern.

UpTheSlashers

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Bit early to be drinking, isn't it?

It's never too early to be drinking. But seriously, United, Chelsea, Barca and Real have similar W-D-L records in the CL so far this season. As do Valencia and Spurs.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I prefer watching mid-table/relegation matches in La Liga over the EPL for sure, much more technical and much less hoofing going on, but I'd rather watch the EPL top 4/5 play against a midtable team than Barca or Real in La Liga, because you feel there might be a chance of the midtable team winning in the EPL, but there's feck all chance in La Liga, proven by the odds given on Barca and Real to win every weekend.

Bundesliga FTW!

IvySlayer

The Premiership has had Alex Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho, 3 of the greatest managers ever. One reason for the constant success of the same clubs.

Who predicted Liverpool would come 7th or that Birmingham would finish top half?

In Spain, when was the last time other than Barcelona or Real even challenged for the title.

4 teams could win the premiership this years, with 6 more fighting for Champions League spots, then there's the fight at the bottom.

SantryRed

IvySlayer wrote: »

The Premiership has had Alex Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho, 3 of the greatest managers ever. One reason for the constant success of the same clubs.

Who predicted Liverpool would come 7th or that Birmingham would finish top half?

In Spain, when was the last time other than Barcelona or Real even challenged for the title.

4 teams could win the premiership this years, with 6 more fighting for Champions League spots, then there's the fight at the bottom.

I don't know where to start on this post. I really don't.

Bodhisopha

baz2009 wrote: »

I prefer watching mid-table/relegation matches in La Liga over the EPL for sure, much more technical and much less hoofing going on, but I'd rather watch the EPL top 4/5 play against a midtable team than Barca or Real in La Liga, because you feel there might be a chance of the midtable team winning in the EPL, but there's feck all chance in La Liga, proven by the odds given on Barca and Real to win every weekend.

Bundesliga FTW!

The Bundesliga is over already this season.

Personally, i enjoy watching Barca spank mid table teams. I get huge pleasure out of watching masters of their craft at work. It's art!

I will get my competitive kicks from the latter stages of the Champions League.

dfx-

bamboozling wrote: »

La Liga top 4 between 2000-2010. 13 teams. Barcelona 10 times, Real 10, Deportivo 4, Valencia 7, Sevilla 3, Atletico 2, Villareal 2, Zaragoza, Mallorca, Sociedad, Celta Vigo, Betis, Osasuna 1.

Within that, it doesn't express just how bad Barcelona were at the start of the decade. They needed an alltime great individual performance on the last day against Valencia in 2001 from Rivaldo to finish 4th.

His overhead kick saved the club as you can tell by the reaction of Gaspart (?) and any excuse to post it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjVMASe9gYI

By far the most entertaining games I've attended this season have been in the Zweite Bundesliga.