Comparing the competitiveness of the EPL vs La Liga

Dolph Starbeam

IvySlayer wrote: »

The Premiership has had Alex Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho, 3 of the greatest managers ever. One reason for the constant success of the same clubs.

A bigger reason for the constant success over the last few years is the ammount of money the top 4 have had over everyone else in the league.

IvySlayer wrote: »

Who predicted Liverpool would come 7th or that Birmingham would finish top half?

Liverpool were rubbish thats why they finished 7th, fair play to Birmingham. Who would have predicted Getafe finishing 6th or Mallorca finishing 5th last season? Getafe went from finishing 17th in 08/09, only surviving relegation because they had a better head to head record against Betis who were relegated on the same points.

IvySlayer wrote: »

In Spain, when was the last time other than Barcelona or Real even challenged for the title.

07/08 Villareal finished 2nd, 10 points clear of Barca.

In England, when is the last time anyone challenged Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal?

IvySlayer wrote: »

4 teams could win the premiership this years, with 6 more fighting for Champions League spots, then there's the fight at the bottom.

2 can win the league in Spain and any of the current top 11 could really finish in the top 4.

Warper

I think we saw tonight the difference between the EPL and La Liga. 2 teams playing a 4-5-1 formation in a horrible match between 2 teams that cant put 10 passes together. No wonder England are so crap at football. Not one world-class player on show tonight.

ArmaniJeanss

eZe^ wrote: »

Another thing that does my fcuking nut in is this myth that La Liga players can't defend, over the past 5 seasons I remember Sid Lowe comparing the goals scored in each league, and the EPL with La Liga were almost equal every season (bar 08/09 where Barca's treble winning team scored a disgusting amount of goals). Just because football in La Liga is more attack minded doesn't mean more goals are scored, the stats show that.

I think this stat is partly caused by games often drifting to a conclusion in La Liga once the result is known, because of the use of head to head instead of goal difference. I've seen Barca/Real/Seville/Valencia etc barely play the second half of matches in recent seasons once the win is secure.

Whereas in the EPL teams won't take the foot off the pedal - if MUFC/Chelsea/Arsenal etc are 3-0 up with 30 minutes to go they see it as a chance to improve their goal difference.

tdv123

I've made a system for the rating the leagues.

We rate the clubs 1-10. 10 being the highest rating & 1 being the lowest

10
La Liga

Barcelona

EPL

-

9
La Liga

Real Madrid

EPL

Man United, Chelsea

8
La Liga

Valencia

EPL

Arsenal,Spurs,Man City

7
La Liga

Sevilla,Espanyol,Villareal,Athetico Madrid

EPL

Liverpool,Everton

The rest of the leagues teams are all 6's & 5's

Dolph Starbeam

Warper wrote: »

I think we saw tonight the difference between the EPL and La Liga. 2 teams playing a 4-5-1 formation in a horrible match between 2 teams that cant put 10 passes together. No wonder England are so crap at football. Not one world-class player on show tonight.

Horrible game of football, only 4 English players started the game iirc so i don't knwo what that says about England really.

During the World Cup there was stats on the % of Spanish players playing in La Liga and the % of English players playing in the EPL, Spain was the best of the big leagues in Europe iirc having 67% and England was the worst of the lot with something like 40%, i can't find any stats now so i am open to correction on the percentages.

OPENROAD

Warper wrote: »

I think we saw tonight the difference between the EPL and La Liga. 2 teams playing a 4-5-1 formation in a horrible match between 2 teams that cant put 10 passes together. No wonder England are so crap at football. Not one world-class player on show tonight.

Why focus solely on England?

Liam O

MOG7 wrote: »

A bigger reason for the constant success over the last few years is the ammount of money the top 4 have had over everyone else in the league.

please tell me you're not playing that card to say the PL is worse? The top 2 in Spain get about five times as much money as anyone else in the league. If it wasn't for the sugar daddies in the PL the amount of T.V. and prize money is good for every team, not just the top 2.

Le King

La Liga is far more entertaining. EPL is more competitive. Simple really.

Spurs are the only really other team I like watching atm in the EPL. But they have had some boring matches this year. Arsenal, of course, at their best are a great watch. But nothing beats Barcelona at their best. Absolute dream to watch them completely destroy their opposition. I think they held possession for over a minute for one of the goals against Real Madrid. Unbelievable.

Serie A and the Bundesliga have been a good watch for me this season. Although Dortmund are running away with the title this year.

MisterAnarchy

I dont know about competiveness but in terms of footballing ability La Liga is miles ahead of the EPL (or should I call that the "Barclays" Premier League as is the fashion these days )
There is a different footballing ethos in Spain ,teams in general try to play passing attractive football .Its a completely different culture.
Perhaps the money involved in England is so high that the stakes demand a win at all costs attitude.All that matters is the 3 points.

The Premier League is a league built on physicality and defensive ,no nonsense ,route one football.
How many matches involving lower to mid table teams are described as "dire" "uneventful" "low quality" matches week in week out .
Managers talking afterwards about the "commitment", "effort" ,"workrate" put in by their players.
What about skill ?

Against Wolves on Sunday ,Birmingham managed 3 shots in the whole match ,zero on target.Stoke earlier in the season managed 1 shot on target in 180 minutes .That is abominable .
Teams are ultra defensive ,5 man midfields are all too common,some teams even employ 5 man defences !
I cannot remember the league ever being so negative.

The Premier league might be more competive but so what ,you could say the league of Ireland is competive but that doesnt mean its any good.
I watch football to see quality football ,if I want to see competiveness and effort I'll go down my local park ,not pay £40 to watch Birmingham vs Stoke.

Contrast Real Madrid vs Valencia , Barca vs Valencia ,Barca vs Real Madrid from this season with similar big team clashes in England.
All of the big 4 clashes this season have been poor football matches.
Liverpool vs Arsenal,Chelsea vs Arsenal,Liverpool vs Chelsea,Man Utd vs Liverpool ,Man Utd vs Arsenal.
Its the same waffle being spouted out on Sky during the match "oh its not warmed up yet,it hasnt lived up to expectations yet ,blah blah blah"
The fact of the matter is that these matches inevitably do live up to expectations ,expectations that they will be tight ,scrappy,midfield battles with poor passing and few chances.

dfx-

How does the prize money at the bottom of the leagues compare...

Mitch Connor

MOG7 wrote: »

In England, when is the last time anyone challenged Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal?

Do you have the memory of a goldfish?

Liverpool finished second by a few points just a season and a half ago.

City are challenging for the title right now.

speedboatchase

So it seems like people are coming to a consensus that while the quality of football is higher in La Liga, the EPL is more competitive? Well that's good then, considering the latter is what this actual thread is about :rolleyes:

veXual

After watching the Barca - Madrid game a couple of weeks ago the quality of the football in England just looks plain bad in comparison.

No doubt the EPL is competitive but any team has a chance when all that happens for 90 minutes is lumping the ball from one end of the pitch to the other.

I heard an item on the radio at the weekend about the underage training methods used in Spain particularly Barcelona where there are no competitive games until under-12 level. Before that all the emphasis is placed getting kids to play with the ball at their feet and instilling a bit of confidence when they're on the ball. Seems like this has followed through to senior levels.

England seems to be all about bombarding the oppositions penalty area and I've noticed a lot of emphasis is placed on having a big hitman up front as the focal point of the attack.

Maybe I'm ranting away and I'm in awe of Barcelona but the quality on display in the EPL is questionable, it's exciting and competitive alright but quality is an issue.

gimmick

Slightly off topic, but during the world cup it was mentioned that there are over 700 UEFA A rated coaches in Spain, most of whom work in youth football. In England there is a very small figure (cannot remember tbh), and all of these work in the football league/BPL.

pickarooney

dfx- wrote: »

The standard reliable crazy league is Ligue 1. But their best performances in Europe seem to be with a dominant team like Lyon or Marseille in the past. Not with Nantes or Lille or Lens or Auxerre or even PSG. The league table a few weeks ago from memory was muddled with teams everywhere, no set pattern.

This 'standard' has existed for a whole season and a half after Lyon won 7 in a row. Long may it continue though, Germany and France lately have been the leagues to follow for anyone interested in a competitive competition.

everdead.ie

gimmick wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but during the world cup it was mentioned that there are over 700 UEFA A rated coaches in Spain, most of whom work in youth football. In England there is a very small figure (cannot remember tbh), and all of these work in the football league/BPL.

I think that's something that needs to be addressed in most countries Ireland could do with setting a system up as well

Dolph Starbeam

Liam O wrote: »

please tell me you're not playing that card to say the PL is worse? The top 2 in Spain get about five times as much money as anyone else in the league. If it wasn't for the sugar daddies in the PL the amount of T.V. and prize money is good for every team, not just the top 2.

I only used that in response to the arguement where it was amde sound like the only reason those 3 teams have been consistently good is because of there managers, i agree it is part of the reason but not the main reason.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do you have the memory of a goldfish?

Liverpool finished second by a few points just a season and a half ago.

City are challenging for the title right now.

No i don't. Again as above i was responding to the "when is the last time anyone challenged Barca or Real for the title?", because they have won it the last few seasons EPL followers seem to think the EPL has been this open a league forever.

OhNoYouDidn't

pickarooney wrote: »

This 'standard' has existed for a whole season and a half after Lyon won 7 in a row. Long may it continue though, Germany and France lately have been the leagues to follow for anyone interested in a competitive competition.

As opposed to the league on your doorstep that was won on goal difference, the European places decided and the relegation battle settled all on the last day?

OhNoYouDidn't

everdead.ie wrote: »

I think that's something that needs to be addressed in most countries Ireland could do with setting a system up as well

Aside from the one we already have?

pickarooney

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

As opposed to the league on your doorstep that was won on goal difference, the European places decided and the relegation battle settled all on the last day?

Marseille had it wrapped up a couple of weeks before the end

dfx-

pickarooney wrote: »

This 'standard' has existed for a whole season and a half after Lyon won 7 in a row. Long may it continue though, Germany and France lately have been the leagues to follow for anyone interested in a competitive competition.

No doubt it's exciting. There is very rarely a pattern even behind Lyon's domination. Toulouse, Nantes, Lille, Lens, Bordeaux, Strasbourg, anyone can finish anywhere along with stable Lyon and Marseille - 4th one season and in Europe, 16th the next. I can't remember anyone else dominating like Lyon did except maybe Marseille in the early 90s.

Some stability or pattern is helpful to a league.

everdead.ie

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Aside from the one we already have?

By setting up a system I meant literally set up a training program for primary and second level teachers on how to coach soccer to youths on concentrating on games of five and seven a side's and introducing them to proper training techniques.

CorkMan

IMO it is hard to compare the competitiveness. Real Madrid and Barca are just so alight at the moment, 96 and 99 points last season respectively. Who can compete with that? Nobody, that's who! But that is only a 10th of La Liga, that is for the winners medal.

*Goes into Chamber of Understanding for 90 minutes*

Among the entire league, I think La Liga takes the cookie. Villarreal/Valencia/Sevilla/Athletico up there every season, throw in the likes of Getafe/Mallorca/Espanyol who can push the team listed above hard. One look at Deportivo and you cringe! They haven't challenged at all for the past couple of season, but won it 10 years ago and were a top 5 team in the CL overall at one stage.

With the EPL you have Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, then Liverpool, Spurs and lately Man City. (Can still remember Man City 4-5 season ago being bottom of the 3rd division down.) IMO Liverpool could turn into a Deportivo, they are just above being EPL's Villarreal ATM IMO. With Spurs of late and Man City the good teams at the top of the EPL is getting better no monopoly anymore. Though its means through rich Arabs/Russians is questionable, it is in the system allowed. But look at Man U and The Pool, the americans brought them down, which is a negative.

Overall I would say La Liga is ahead of the Premier League in competitiveness by a small bit. In Europe I think La Liga takes the wiiners medal though! (Sorry for the undue anology :cool:)

DH2K9

This season Barcelona won 8-0 away from home without breaking sweat. You have 2 teams going for the title in Spain, in England you have 5 teams. It is basically quality vs quantity.

The Champions League is there to decide the best team and therefore league in the world and when you look at it Italy has won 2 of the last 4. I know it may be a low scoring / boring league but surely Serie A can argue that they boast a league up there with Spain and England. I know they have struggled this year but they still have 3 teams lefty in the competition.

Countries left in Champions League:

England = 4
Spain = 3
Italy = 3
Germany = 2
France = 2
Denmark = 1
Ukraine = 1

dfx-

DH2K9 wrote: »

This season Barcelona won 8-0 away from home without breaking sweat. You have 2 teams going for the title in Spain, in England you have 5 teams. It is basically quality vs quantity.

The team who lost 8-0 have gone on to change their manager and win at Sevilla at the weekend. That's competitive. The team at the bottom of the league, Zaragoza, gave Real a decent test at the weekend too. The 8-0 result is a freak, it's a record for a reason.

Warper

DH2K9 wrote: »

This season Barcelona won 8-0 away from home without breaking sweat. You have 2 teams going for the title in Spain, in England you have 5 teams. It is basically quality vs quantity.

The Champions League is there to decide the best team and therefore league in the world and when you look at it Italy has won 2 of the last 4. I know it may be a low scoring / boring league but surely Serie A can argue that they boast a league up there with Spain and England. I know they have struggled this year but they still have 3 teams lefty in the competition.

Countries left in Champions League:

England = 4
Spain = 3
Italy = 3
Germany = 2
France = 2
Denmark = 1
Ukraine = 1

Who are the 5 teams going for the title in England? Spurs havnt a hope in hell of winning the title, the same goes for Arsenal. Realistically it will be between Utd and Chelsea again. City have improved no end though and are getting very close but Arsenal are still the usual Arsenal, looking great occasionally against Wolves but always falling short against Utd and Chelsea.

The CL is there to provide the best team in Europe but not the best League. No one is saying that Serie A is the best league even though it did provide 2 winners recently. Italians would even agree with that. The EPL title race is very competitive but the French title race is even more competitive, what are we actually talking about here? Which League has more teams challenging for the title? This thread hurts my head.

SantryRed

After thinking about it, I think it's gas the way the people say the EPL is more competitive. Completely disagree now. Barca and Real are ridiculously consistent, something that EPL teams are not.

Liam O

SantryRed wrote: »

After thinking about it, I think it's gas the way the people say the EPL is more competitive. Completely disagree now. Barca and Real are ridiculously consistent, something that EPL teams are not.

bar City, look at how much less the top EPL teams have spent on players in the last 2 or 3 years. Barca bought Ibra and Villa for more than any player outside of City has ever bought for in the PL. Dani Alves is a €30m RB. Real, well, I'd say if United or Chelsea signed Kaka, Alonso, Albiol, United kept Ronaldo or Chelsea signed him then they would be pretty darn consistent and I doubt either Barca or Real could beat them. It's all hypothetical but money talks ans sooner or later, if City get their act together it will start talking for them.

Dolph Starbeam

Liam O wrote: »

bar City, look at how much less the top EPL teams have spent on players in the last 2 or 3 years. Barca bought Ibra and Villa for more than any player outside of City has ever bought for in the PL. Dani Alves is a €30m RB. Real, well, I'd say if United or Chelsea signed Kaka, Alonso, Albiol, United kept Ronaldo or Chelsea signed him then they would be pretty darn consistent and I doubt either Barca or Real could beat them. It's all hypothetical but money talks ans sooner or later, if City get their act together it will start talking for them.

They mentioned during el clasico the price that both teams cost to put together. Barca €130, Real Madrid €390, i would guess that at least a couple EPL teams cost more to put together than Barcas. I doubt any bar maybe City cost anywhere near Real's. Barca's main spending and the reason they are in so much debt is becaus eof the wages, and even at that the top earners are still behind many EPL players.

Auvers

MOG7 wrote: »

and even at that the top earners are still behind many EPL players.

yeah but they pay 24% tax in Spain, while EPL players pay up to 50% in England, so you actually earn more in La Liga with that taken into consideration


just found this as of 1.1.2010

The Spanish government plans to raise the tax rate for foreign football players earning more than EUR 600,000 per year.
Currently foreign footballers pay 24% tax under the "Beckham Law" effective from 2002. From 1.1.2010 the new tax rate will rise to 43%. The new tax rate will apply only to new contracts signed by foreign footballers and skilled people from 1.1.2010 onwards.
So far, due to the 24% low tax rate the Spanish football league has been very attractive to foreign top footballers who enjoyed a low tax rate compared to the higher tax rates in other European countries.

Dolph Starbeam

Auvers wrote: »

yeah but they pay 24% tax in Spain, while EPL players pay up to 50% in England, so you actually earn more in La Liga with that taken into consideration


just found this as of 1.1.2010

The Spanish government plans to raise the tax rate for foreign football players earning more than EUR 600,000 per year.
Currently foreign footballers pay 24% tax under the "Beckham Law" effective from 2002. From 1.1.2010 the new tax rate will rise to 43%. The new tax rate will apply only to new contracts signed by foreign footballers and skilled people from 1.1.2010 onwards.
So far, due to the 24% low tax rate the Spanish football league has been very attractive to foreign top footballers who enjoyed a low tax rate compared to the higher tax rates in other European countries.

Ah yes good point i forgot all about that, that could make a difference. So it says from 1.1.2010 any new contracts will be taxed at 43%, So at least it hasn't stopped players like Villa, Ozil or Di Maria from signing deals.