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What now constitutes abuse on boards?

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24

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    #32
    LoLth
    Registered Users Posts: 10,339 ✭✭✭✭LoLth


    gimme5minutes wrote: »
    So now you cant even call someone delusional on boards.ie without getting banned.....Someone needs to bring some common sense back to this place, I find it very hard to read these days when almost every other thread features a moderator making a post in bolded letters threatening posters with bans and infractions for insignificant stuff or ordering them to keep on topic when they have barely digressed from the main issue. This site has been overmodded for a few years now, and it's increasing all the time.

    There have been times when I have wanted to join a discussion but when I started typing it out I kept thinking 'what will the moderator make of this' or 'this will probably get removed or Ill get threatened with a ban'....so I just haven't bothered. And Im not talking about laying personal insults into someone, just normal heated discussion...one thing I really hate these days is whenever a discussion gets in any way heated (which is generally the sign of a good discussion online and irl) you have mods sticking their oar in and threatening people...sometimes they do it if a discussion merely shows signs it might become heated. It just really puts people off posting when you have to constantly worry about whether the moderator is going to get on your case over it, like you were some young lad in school.

    Seriously, stand back and look at this thread again...someone has been banned off a forum for calling someone else delusional. Jesus christ. You have already lost the poker community because of the overly bureaucratic and authoritarian nature of the site these days, have you not learned that people dont like to be constantly bossed around all the time on an internet forum...we get enough of that at work every day from the boss.

    I think you need to read the actual thread being discussed or, pay closer attention to the posts in this thread. the user wasnt banned for using the term delusional.


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    #33
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Des wrote: »
    so what if someone gets offended, they probably did say something stupid and deserve to be called on it.

    Well, can they not say that what the user had posted was "stupid", rather than just attacking them and declaring them to be a 'stupid' person?


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    #34
    Jazzy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Well, can they not say that what the user had posted was "stupid", rather than just attacking them and declaring them to be a 'stupid' person?

    they wont learn nothing then


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    #35
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    I agree, but I also doubt anyone really makes the distinction between delusional and deluded in practise. Perhaps that's just me though.

    If someone chose to mete out punishment based on the words used they'd do well to make the distinction. That wasn't the case here though, as has been explained.


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    #36
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Well, can they not say that what the user had posted was "stupid", rather than just attacking them and declaring them to be a 'stupid' person?

    stupid people post stupid things.

    Usually to troll.


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    #37
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Des wrote: »
    there's far too much cotton wool on Boards this past two years or so.

    so what if someone gets offended, they probably did say something stupid and deserve to be called on it.

    Thank you. There are too many pussies on Boards, waiting to pounce on anything they can ascribe as abuse. Unless someone comes out and calls you a dirty cheating sonofawhore why the flock would you care what some random spod on the internet called you, why would you be offended?


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    #38
    The Recliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭The Recliner


    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    Thank you. There are too many pussies on Boards, waiting to pounce on anything they can ascribe as abuse. Unless someone comes out and calls you a dirty cheating sonofawhore why the flock would you care what some random spod on the internet called you, why would you be offended?

    And why would someone need to call you that?

    What is wrong with expecting a little bit of civility?


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    #39
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    pickarooney wrote: »
    If someone chose to mete out punishment based on the words used they'd do well to make the distinction.

    My point is that they wouldn't make the distinction in the first place.
    That wasn't the case here though, as has been explained.

    I'm aware of that.


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    #40
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    The Recliner wrote: »
    And why would someone need to call you that?

    What is wrong with expecting a little bit of civility?

    I don't think anyone is advocating going that far. But I really do think you should be able to call a spade a spade.


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    #41
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    phantom_lord wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is advocating going that far. But I really do think you should be able to call a spade a spade.

    You cant call a spade a spade because its code word for ******. Spades are black.

    There is no consensual reality on boards when it comes to what is abuse and what is not abuse.


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    #42
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    You cant call a spade a spade because its code word for ******. Spades are black.

    :confused:


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    #43
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Des wrote: »
    stupid people post stupid things.

    Usually to troll.

    So, the answer is to allow them to be called a "stupid" person?

    What if I think what you just said was 'stupid'.

    Should I just be able to post:

    "You are a stupid stupid person".

    As for someone being a 'troll'. If a user thinks someone is a troll, then they can report their posts and let the Mods decide if they are trolls or not.
    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    Thank you. There are too many pussies on Boards, waiting to pounce on anything they can ascribe as abuse. Unless someone comes out and calls you a dirty cheating sonofawhore why the flock would you care what some random spod on the internet called you, why would you be offended?

    So, if I now said in response to the above:

    "You are a moron for thinking that".

    That's cool?

    The point is, attacking the poster instead of the content of a post stifles debate and just leads to a slanging match.

    I can't believe that some of these views are coming from Mods to be quite honest.


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    #44
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    phantom_lord wrote: »
    :confused:

    It has racial over tones for n*gger.


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    #45
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Look, personal abuse has no place on an internet forum.

    Yea, its all fine saying that people need to swallow a spoonfull of cement and harden the fcuk up - but most people come here to enjoy the experience, and not have some idiot posting on here as if it were the comments section of youtube. I dont want to read widepsread slagging matches between people. Nor do i want some keyboard warrior attacking me in a personal manner because i think Brian Cowen is the greatest Irish patriot since Chris De Burgh - ok, my opinion might be stupid, but im entitled to hold it

    So there is a line - attack the post not the poster. Is being accused of being delusional in the context of a specific debate a personal attack or an insult?

    No


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    #46
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    It has racial over tones for n*gger.

    News to me tbh.


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    #47
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    It has racial over tones for n*gger.

    What are you on about? No it doesn't.


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    #48
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    I can't believe that some of these views are coming from Mods to be quite honest.

    Excuse me? Last time I checked I wasn't a mod in Feedback.

    Anyway, sorry to burst the perception of all mods toeing a party line, it doesn't happen.

    I think this website panders to the sensitivities of people who are "offended"* too much.

    *
    a. people who aren't really offended, but pretend to be offended to get the person who they have failed to argue a cogent point with infracted or banned or otherwise "in trouble" so it looks like they've "won" the argument

    b. people who get offended on behalf of others, these are the worst, the "Oh you can't say that, that group over there, of which I am not part, might be offended by it" brigade.

    c. people who stir and stir and stir a ridiculous standpoint, and when someone finally snaps and calls them on it they sit back and lol all the way to the reported post button. Actually I hate these idiots more than any other trolls. Hiding behind the "well that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it" excuse. No, no it isn't your opinion, not really, you are just pretending to hold this controversial opinion to see how many people you can rile up and then run to the mods when they call you "delusional" for thinking that, even though you don't really think it.


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    #49
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Des wrote: »
    Excuse me? Last time I checked I wasn't a mod in Feedback.

    What are you talking about?

    I am saying that I am surprised that some moderators on Boards (not of Feedback) think that calling someone "stupid" (for instance) should be allowed.

    Attack the post and not the poster is something I thought all mods would have subscribed too.
    Des wrote: »
    Anyway, sorry to burst the perception of all mods toeing a party line, it doesn't happen.

    It has zero to do with "toeing the party line" and that is not why I am surprised that some Mods are expressing the views they are.
    Des wrote: »
    I think this website panders to the sensitivities of people who are "offended"* too much.

    So do I, just not with regard to this issue.
    Des wrote: »
    a. people who aren't really offended, but pretend to be offended to get the person who they have failed to argue a cogent point with infracted or banned or otherwise "in trouble" so it looks like they've "won" the argument.

    Sorry, but it is the user that resorts to insults that is usually the one that has failed to argue a "cogent point" in my experience.
    Des wrote: »
    b. people who get offended on behalf of others, these are the worst, the "Oh you can't say that, that group over there, of which I am not part, might be offended by it" brigade.

    I agree, but that has little to do with this topic.
    Des wrote: »
    c. people who stir and stir and stir a ridiculous standpoint, and when someone finally snaps and calls them on it they sit back and lol all the way to the reported post button.

    Blame the victim of the "baiting" and "abuse"??

    Again, if someone has such a "ridiculous standpoint" then it should be easily dismissed without resorting to insulting "comments" and general "baiting".
    Des wrote: »
    Hiding behind the "well that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it" excuse. No, no it isn't your opinion ..

    How do you know what someone opinion is and isn't?
    Des wrote: »
    ..not really, you are just pretending to hold this controversial opinion to see how many people you can rile up and then run to the mods when they call you "delusional" for thinking that, even though you don't really think it.

    See, I would think that opinion is the annoying one.

    You assume that because you or another user doesn't agree with someone or respect their point of view, then they must be a "troll" and so you should be entitled to be able to attack them and not their posts.

    Well, I hope that never happens.

    If we are going to protect celebrities from being abused on this site, then I see no reason why we shouldn't also extend that courtesy to it's members also.


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    #50
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    RasTa wrote: »
    What are you on about? No it doesn't.

    It does - in america

    A "Spade" had been a derogatery term for African Americans since the 1920's


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    #51
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    The Recliner wrote: »
    And why would someone need to call you that?

    What is wrong with expecting a little bit of civility?

    Nothing wrong with civility. I can be called a gob****e and it is not offensive anywhere in the real world. Why would being called delusional be. My point is this:

    There is no good reason for people getting offended, most of the time. It is pure pettiness to hit the report button because you got called a nitwit or whatever.


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    #52
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    So, if I now said in response to the above:

    "You are a moron for thinking that".

    That's cool?

    The point is, attacking the poster instead of the content of a post stifles debate and just leads to a slanging match.

    I can't believe that some of these views are coming from Mods to be quite honest.

    It's not "cool", but I wouldn't be offended by it either. I agree on a lot of your points, but I still offer that there is too much pandering to the serial offended.


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    #53
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    OutlawPete wrote: »


    How many times does it have to be posted that PL was NOT banned for calling a user delusional, in fact Admin have stated that on this thread and in the DR.

    They have also stated that the word itself is not inherently abusive either:

    :

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69539754&postcount=3

    Look Pete. I did not state anywhere that delusional was used as a reason to ban a poster. But on this very thread is a post from a mod who regards its use as abuse.


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    #54
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    Look Pete. I did not state anywhere that delusional was used as a reason to ban a poster. But on this very thread is a post from a mod who regards its use as abuse.

    Fair enough, apologies - I thought you were suggesting that was the reason for the ban.


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    #55
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    snyper wrote: »
    It does - in america

    A "Spade" had been a derogatery term for African Americans since the 1920's

    Good grief. Happily we are not in america. Also there are many other derogatory terms out there, but the aforementioned is not one..

    The phrase "call a spade a spade is not a racist or derogatory one.

    'Apophthegmes, that is to saie, prompte saiynges. First gathered by Erasmus' - translated in 1542:

    "Philippus aunswered, that the Macedonians wer feloes of no fyne witte in their termes but altogether grosse, clubbyshe, and rusticall, as they whiche had not the witte to calle a spade by any other name then a spade."

    This refers back to Plutarch's Apophthegmata.


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    #56
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    Good grief. Happily we are not in america. Also there are many other derogatory terms out there, but the aforementioned is not one..

    The phrase "call a spade a spade is not a racist or derogatory one.

    'Apophthegmes, that is to saie, prompte saiynges. First gathered by Erasmus' - translated in 1542:

    "Philippus aunswered, that the Macedonians wer feloes of no fyne witte in their termes but altogether grosse, clubbyshe, and rusticall, as they whiche had not the witte to calle a spade by any other name then a spade."

    This refers back to Plutarch's Apophthegmata.

    Im not referring to the phrase "to call a spade a spade" - that is not a racist term

    Im referring to the term "spade" which is derogatery
    spade (spd)
    n.
    1. Games
    a. A black, leaf-shaped figure on certain playing cards.
    b. A playing card with this figure.
    c. also spades (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The suit of cards represented by this figure.
    2. Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a Black person.


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    #57
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It's also in use in the UK and I heard it from older types here too. Comes from "black as the ace of spades" IIRC.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #58
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    snyper wrote: »
    A "Spade" had been a derogatery term for African Americans since the 1920's
    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    Good grief. Happily we are not in america. .
    snyper wrote: »
    Im not referring to the phrase "to call a spade a spade" - that is not a racist term

    Im referring to the term "spade" which is derogatery
    Wibbs wrote: »
    It's also in use in the UK and I heard it from older types here too.

    Mr Wibbs is indeed correct :p

    Think I first became aware of it when I was around 14, most likely from this scene:

    Mobile against TV, excuse the quality ;)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVnmPU3VgXw


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    #59
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Think I first became aware of it when I was around 14

    I was around 12, from Police Academy. Also: jigaboo. Deeply racist film.


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    #60
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    snyper wrote: »
    Im not referring to the phrase "to call a spade a spade" - that is not a racist term

    Im referring to the term "spade" which is derogatery

    But the posts were in reference to the use of the phrase "a spade....etc"


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    #61
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Mr Wibbs is indeed correct :p
    The world would go a lot easier for me and ye* if ye* took that as an effin given. :D












    *Apologies, but the lack of an acceptable plural "you" in modern English is a PITA and though I am a Dub born and bred for many generations back, "youse" is a bridge too far. :D

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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