RTE text on Sky after 2012

JonathonS

Once the analog terrestrial channels are switched off in 2012 will the analog Aertel continue to be available on Sky or will my box receive the new digital text that is now on DTT?

watty

We don't know.

RTE won't pay for anything on Sky. It would be up to sky to pay for carriage.

But Soarview, Saorsat, Freeview and Freesat use MHEG5 for fancy text. Sky uses "openTv". The BBC author roughly the same content for both systems. This would involve RTE in extra cost that they have no mandate for. UPC uses a 3rd system and no-one other than themselves Author. There is no BBC Interactive Text on UPC.

RTE could simply keep sending Sky the traditional Text (which oddly is also Digital and not Analogue) after 2012.

JonathonS

Thanks Watty. Your last sentence is the bit I am interested in - will RTE keep the traditional text going after 2012? I suppose we need someone in RTE to answer that one. If the alternative is extra cost they might?

Kensington

It hasn't been confirmed yet by RTÉ, it all depends on what the situation is in 2012. Although for anyone considering purchasing DTT equipment, you should assume it will NOT remain after 2012 when making a decision whether to buy a receiver not capable of MHEG. Always assume "analogue" text WON'T be available beyond 2012. It's also a problem as more and more people switch to HD - HDMI doesn't carry the VBI lines on which the teletext signals reside so you won't get teletext this way.

Sky could easily take an OpenTV version of digital aertel and RTÉ could relatively easily provide same. UPC also use OpenTV, although there are technical differences between the sky and UPC implementations.

watty

Even apart from text you need MHEG5. Unlike Teletext originally it's mandatory part of spec and requires no hardware. It's Royalty free for manufacturer. No excuse for manufacturer.

http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/

There are plenty of competitive boxs & TVs with MHEG5.

UPC is migrating to MediaHighway (NDS). OpenTV(NDS & Thomson) is ghastly to work with and expensive and not open!

The BBC does provide OpenTV and MHEG5 versions of its text and interactive services.

Kensington

There are no royalty payments for MHEG, true, but the initial cost is still an issue for some manufacturers. You need to either develop your own MHEG engine in house or buy one in from an external company (S&T, Cabot). Neither method comes cheap and in some manufacturers eyes, isn't worth the return on investment.

OpenTV is NAGRA Kudelski group.
MediaHighway is NDS (News Corp).

BSkyB are OpenTV, but use MediaHighway modules for Sky+HD EPG and Anytime.
UPC are also OpenTV. No plans to switch to MediaHighway for "Interactive" element although I think their EPG and VoD systems may use MediaHighway technology.

watty

There is at least one Open Source MHEG5 engine.

Market Size for MHEG5
Ireland, UK Freeview and Freesat, TVB Hong Kong, Australia, Germany (TechniSat), India – Digicable (cable pay-TV operator), New Zealand, and South Africa.

Possible deployment in Turkey and Malaysia.

CI+ requires MHP and MHEG5

A market of maybe over 15 million new sets/boxes p.a. (Assumimg 10 year life to a TV). Maybe much more.

Often same code will work on many many different models with a minimum of effort.

Sam Russell

It is usually the chipset manufacturer that develops the firmware.

watty

Not for middleware. That really only uses the CPU. You are thinking of MPEG and other Codecs. MHEG is not a codec.

Galway

Is the digital txt available now? I have just got a new SONY HD tv and can get the full EPG, are they using M-HEG 5 for the EPG too?

watty

EPG is just DVB-EIT, not MHEG5

Here is a photo of current MHEG5 text http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/

Unlike Teletext which originally was hardware only, thus fixed in design (though actually Digital), the MHEG5 text user interface and style can be changed anytime.

icdg

Kensington wrote: »

It hasn't been confirmed yet by RTÉ, it all depends on what the situation is in 2012. Although for anyone considering purchasing DTT equipment, you should assume it will NOT remain after 2012 when making a decision whether to buy a receiver not capable of MHEG. Always assume "analogue" text WON'T be available beyond 2012. It's also a problem as more and more people switch to HD - HDMI doesn't carry the VBI lines on which the teletext signals reside so you won't get teletext this way.

Sky could easily take an OpenTV version of digital aertel and RTÉ could relatively easily provide same. UPC also use OpenTV, although there are technical differences between the sky and UPC implementations.

UPC have the added problem in that a substantial portion of their STBs deployed are still NTL boxes that actually run Liberate rathar than OpenTV.

Teletext as we have known it faces a rather uncertain future. Teletext Limited has lost its licence (though it continues to broadcast a skeleton service in breach of UK law), its the BBC's intention to close Ceefax, there is a very basic Skytext service remaining on Sky News only, and most other UK broadcasters have abandoned the platform. Going forward it may be that television manufacturers may actually decide to drop support for teletext as broadcasters abandon the platform. One DSO happens and Digital Aertel is available to all DTT customers, you can't really assume that RTÉ will itself keep Aertel going for cable and satellite customers. I'd imagine that teletext as we have known it maybe has five years left in the UK and Ireland, though it may stay around in other parts of the globe.

Galway

watty wrote: »

EPG is just DVB-EIT, not MHEG5

Here is a photo of current MHEG5 text http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/

Unlike Teletext which originally was hardware only, thus fixed in design (though actually Digital), the MHEG5 text user interface and style can be changed anytime.

The tv is a sony kdl40ex503 they said in shop it has MHEG5 but i cannot check txt on DTT at moment,

fat-tony

Text working fine on a older Sony model (32KDLV5810) this fine Christmas morning!
Mind you, mine is a combined Freesat and terrestrial model and I have it set to UK so that I get the 8 day Freesat EPG.
On digital, when you press the text button, there is a delay of several seconds while the MHEG engine loads up the text initially. On analogue I get the traditional Aertel text.

Galway

fat-tony wrote: »

Text working fine on a older Sony model (32KDLV5810) this fine Christmas morning!
Mind you, mine is a combined Freesat and terrestrial model and I have it set to UK so that I get the 8 day Freesat EPG.
On digital, when you press the text button, there is a delay of several seconds while the MHEG engine loads up the text initially. On analogue I get the traditional Aertel text.

Mine is brand new model out this year. It has MPEG4 and I specifically asked re the MHEG5 and the guy rang SONY in Dublin and they said it has. It doesnt have the freesat tuner but I get the full Irish DTT EPG, maybe I need to go back to the Menu and set the country to UK. Im not back home until Monday but will be very cross if it does do MHEG 5. I posted on here before buying and a boardsie said the newer SONYs have MHEG 5.

fat-tony

You're probably better off checking the terrestrial forum regarding issues with Saorview reception. The thread of telly's working with Saorview (incl. MHEG) is posted here:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056096032

I'd be very surprised if MHEG teletext was not working on Ireland setting. The problem with setting to UK is that RTENL channels get put in the 800's - but easy to move to 1, 2, 3 etc.