Off licenses closing at 10pm and nanny state

maggy_thatcher

Don't realy know, neutral vote

prinz wrote: »

So what? The central point is that I have to plan around it. Big deal.

The point is that you said the reason you couldn't buy a pint of milk was because they didn't trust you with Frosties...but you can buy a pint of milk, just not in your neighbourhood. It's not nanny-state rules that dictate it.

prinz wrote: »

In fairness, you make yourself drink more. Nothing else. It's irrelevant whether your fridge is full of drink from top to bottom or whether you can go buy in an offie at 11pm. The only person responsible for the amount of drink is you yourself. That precise abdication of personal responsibility is why they have laws such as the off licensing times to begin with.

It points out the stupidity of the nanny state rule. The law says "thou shalt not purchase alcohol except at these restricted hours we state and in these restricted premesis.". The excuse for the law some people give is that it's because we can't be trusted to not drink excessively if we can buy it all the time. gurramok demonstrated that as a direct result of the law his/her alcohol consumption actually went up. Therefore the law is doing the opposite.

gurramok

Don't realy know, neutral vote

prinz wrote: »

In fairness, you make yourself drink more. Nothing else. It's irrelevant whether your fridge is full of drink from top to bottom or whether you can go buy in an offie at 11pm. The only person responsible for the amount of drink is you yourself. That precise abdication of personal responsibility is why they have laws such as the off licensing times to begin with.

Its very hard to resist having those cans stocked in the fridge. Try it. You see them every day and they are crying out to be consumed

If on the other hand, I did not have them stocked in and had to go out and buy them on a weekend when I felt like it, I would not be drinking mid week for example. Hence reduced consumption.

prinz

Disagree, incorrect decision from our government

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

gurramok demonstrated that as a direct result of the law his/her alcohol consumption actually went up. Therefore the law is doing the opposite.

Gurramok demonstrated that Gurramok's self control isn't the best, nothing more.

gurramok wrote: »

Its very hard to resist having those cans stocked in the fridge. Try it. You see them every day and they are crying out to be consumed

I feel your pain. I have a few cans in the fridge staring at me everytime I open it. Looking all cold, and refreshing, bit of condensation running down the side...

gurramok wrote: »

If on the other hand, I did not have them stocked in and had to go out and buy them on a weekend when I felt like it, I would not be drinking mid week for example. Hence reduced consumption.

Use the force, control yourself.

IM0

feelingstressed wrote: »

I raised this before in Ranting & Raving forum but not a whole lot of reaction.

well if you cant get anyone to agree with you there there is no hope for the arguement really

+ people have to work in these places so you can get your drink after 10pm

Guy:Incognito

khmk wrote: »

ok, but what if you finish work at 10pm and as an adult you want to have a drink?

and what about all the people finishing after 11:30 under the old laws? Where was the outcry for them?

whatsamsn

Don't realy know, neutral vote

Haha, the law didnt change much :P (except for causing a nuance)
Everyone just gets the drink before ten. Go into an off-license between 9.30 / 10pm and its especially busy :cool:

But as for the law itself its communism. Think about it.

DonkeyStyle \o/

If it stops gangs of skangers hanging around shops after 10, I'm all for it.
If you can't keep booze in your house without drinking every last drop right away then you should seek help.

Pro tip: stock up on a drink that you don't enjoy, that way you won't be tempted to guzzle it all, but if you have the urgent need to get pissed - you still have options.

Wazdakka

Don't realy know, neutral vote

whatsamsn wrote: »

But as for the law itself its communism. Think about it.

So the law that Offies have to close at 10pm is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a stateless and classless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate?


Wait...

I get it now..
Makes perfect sense.

whatsamsn

Don't realy know, neutral vote

two things:
"..sarcasm is the lowest form of wit..." & making your opinion sound more "sophisticated" does not make your opinion more vaild. In fact its poncey.

Simple fact is we are adults. If I want to get a bottle of Jack Daniels at 1am in the morning I should be entitled to. There should not be a rule stating me that I have to buy alcohol before 10pm. Its someone telling me what I can and cant do.

STForSale

Don't realy know, neutral vote

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Personally I've a bigger problem with the morning ban than the evening ban. If I want to purchase alcohol I have to make an explicit extra trip out to the shops to buy it just because they don't trust you to buy it in the mornings.

+1, I find myself timing my weekly shopping trip to tescos, don't want to be at the till before 12:30 on Sunday or you can't have the booze.
Why oh why can I not buy a bottle of wine and a six pack until 12:30?

faceman

Disagree, incorrect decision from our government

whatsamsn wrote: »

Simple fact is we are adults. If I want to get a bottle of Jack Daniels at 1am in the morning I should be entitled to. There should not be a rule stating me that I have to buy alcohol before 10pm. Its someone telling me what I can and cant do.

Do you honestly think that being an adult and taking mature responsibility for ourselves and others go hand in hand?

whatsamsn

Don't realy know, neutral vote

Its all about freedom faceman
Like if someone wants to drink themself into the grave... thats their choice. No one would have a right to say otherwise.

I just believe in personal freedom.

prinz

Disagree, incorrect decision from our government

whatsamsn wrote: »

Its all about freedom faceman
Like if someone wants to drink themself into the grave... thats their choice. No one would have a right to say otherwise. I just believe in personal freedom.

I presume you are equally in favour of doing away with the social welfare system?

pickarooney

Don't realy know, neutral vote

faceman wrote: »

I used to be against it but I'm very much for it nowadays although it's a very uneven law given the licensing laws for pubs/clubs and the lacking impact that the Drink Aware campaign has in Ireland.

Ireland has a massive alcohol problem. It's one of the highest costs and burden to the health service, and a large 'acceptable' destroyer and taker of lives too.

That's not to say the vast majority of people suffer from alcohol abuse, but a significant percentage of drinkers in Ireland do. Is it acceptable to forego them for the sake of someone else being permitted to buy a late off sale instead?

We know that most alcohol related strains on the health service and emergency services occur late at night. Therefore a curtailment of late night off sales makes sense although it is a weak curtailment given the lack of responsibility taken by many pubs and clubs to not serve drunk punters.

The argument that the curtailment discriminates against those who work shift doesn't wash. Many other shops and services such as banks, post offices and hairdressers open for less hours than off licenses but you never hear any issue over that

Essentially if you work shift you can plan ahead.

You seem to arguing both for and against the law here. You suggest that it's a godo thing in that it will prevent people from drinking in the evenings but then say it's not an issue as people can just buy their booze earlier. How is the law anything other than an inconvenience to those who work late? To be honest, those who are most likely to overindulge are the same ones who would have no time constraints preventing them from buying booze during the day so it all seems completely pointless.

eddyc

Don't realy know, neutral vote

Does anyone know if the ban has reduced the amount of alcoholics?

steo87

Don't realy know, neutral vote

Fúcking Ireland and their laws! I agree with the smoking ban, but the off-licence one is taking it too far. And the worst thing? Scotland has taken them up on this little law...can't buy drink after ten over here either.....bastards

rossie1977

i think we should ban alcohol altogether, for the good of the family, an ireland free of alcohol would be a far better place

legend365

Don't realy know, neutral vote

Alot of other countries have 24/7 offos.

No crazy high rates of crime or related deaths because of it.

People have a choice. Be an idiot/ Don't be an idiot.

Make sentances alot harsher = less idiots.

Build a new prison = more jobs/places for idiots.

Simple.

123MEE

Stole my thread from last night! why was mine locked?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056120077

prinz

Disagree, incorrect decision from our government

123MEE wrote: »

Stole my thread from last night! why was mine locked?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056120077

It started drinking too early in the day? Or possibly because it was in the wrong forum.

123MEE

prinz wrote: »

It started drinking too early in the day? Or possibly because it was in the wrong forum.

it wasn't drinking too early cos it couldn't buy a feckin drink!!!

faceman

Disagree, incorrect decision from our government

legend365 wrote: »

Alot of other countries have 24/7 offos.

No crazy high rates of crime or related deaths because of it.

People have a choice. Be an idiot/ Don't be an idiot.

Make sentances alot harsher = less idiots.

Build a new prison = more jobs/places for idiots.

Simple.

What are you basing that assumption on? Alcohol related problems are rife in every country in the EU! In Poland, 1 in 4 deaths of people younger than 29 is alcohol related.

The EU invests quite a significant amount of financial support to try tackle it and raise awareness. It is estimated that 200,000 people die a year in the EU as a result of alcohol related illnesses or alcohol fueled fatalities etc. (A quarter of these are less than 29 years of age)

Take France, the 'mature' drinkers of the world. I read a paper a few years ago about alcohol in France that looked at the culture of parents introducing children to alcohol in the safety of the home at an earlier age of 16 and 17. It found that it did nothing to prevent alcohol related issues in later life. This type of study has been done in other countries and the same results were found.

As far as I am aware, France has the highest rate of Foetal Alcohol Syndrome in the EU with something like 60,000 people living with the condition.

The US has a lower rate of alcohol related issues than Europe and we all know the US has tighter restrictions on alcohol availability. It doesnt take a genius to work out one is related to the other.

whatsamsn

Don't realy know, neutral vote

prinz wrote: »

I presume you are equally in favour of doing away with the social welfare system?

Geez, whats with bashing on me huh? :P This has nothing to do with the social or anything else.

Simple fact alcohol is a persons choice. And what has this ban stopped?
as i said in my other post people just buy drink earlier. So has the ban done anything? ... except annoy people and say that you as an adult are not allowed to buy alcohol after 10pm (except in bars :rolleyes:)

So Prinz, you are in favor of this law i gather?

poisonated

Don't realy know, neutral vote

prinz wrote: »

I presume you are equally in favour of doing away with the social welfare system?

To be honest, that is not a very strong argument. There are many people who are not on social welfare and still can't go to an off licence after 10.

Rabies

Rabies wrote: »

because you currently can't currently buy alcohol at spur of the moment 24/7. So for now, pre plan because you have to.

Even if trading hours for off licences were extended by 2hrs to suit those that work shifts, then some poor bastard would complain he can't get alcohol when his shift finished at 1am.

That's not really the point, though. Hardly anything is open at 1am. At 10.15pm, the majority of supermarkets and small shops are still open, with a shutter pulled down over the alcohol section. That's what seems ridiculous to me. You can buy a bottle of wine for your dinner at 9.59 but not at 10.01 in the same shop. I've been in the situation where I was buying stuff for dinner after work (used to finish at 9.45 pm) and there was a bit of a queue, so by the time I got to the cashier, the alcohol wouldn't scan. Sorry, but that absolutely reeks of 'nanny state' to me. It's all well and good saying to plan ahead, but sometimes you just really fancy a can after a long day, or you discover a recipe which needs white wine, why should you not be able to buy it as a responsible adult? I got to the point where I practically felt like a junkie, as if I was doing something wrong by rushing into Centra in time to buy wine, or whatever. All this silly law seems to do is inconvenience those who don't have a problem with alcohol or violence in the first place, people who work long hours and weird shifts and depend on late night shopping.

I really think that all this does is continue to put alcohol on a pedestal as something dangerous and illegal, making it all the more appealing to teenagers. I know nobody likes people who go on about the continent, but honestly, here where I live now, the attitude towards booze is totally different and there are almost NO social problems related to drink. It just isn't really considered a big deal to order a bottle of beer or buy a can, it's not seen as any different than buying a soft drink. As long as the supermarket/corner shop is open, you can buy whatever is in there without being interrogated for ID and feeling like a criminal or addict for wanting to purchase a legal substance as a responsible adult. And it works.

prinz

Disagree, incorrect decision from our government

Rebekah Angry Mushroom wrote: »

And it works.

It doesn't work because the laws are different, it works because the people are.

prinz

Disagree, incorrect decision from our government

whatsamsn wrote: »

Geez, whats with bashing on me huh? :P This has nothing to do with the social or anything else.

poisonated wrote: »

To be honest, that is not a very strong argument. There are many people who are not on social welfare and still can't go to an off licence after 10.

I was referring to the posters attitude that it's the person's choice to drink themselves into an early grave as a personal freedom. That would be great as long as the same person didn't come back looking to a tax funded health system to take care of them later. You can't have it everyway.

finty

whatsamsn wrote: »

Its all about freedom faceman
Like if someone wants to drink themself into the grave... thats their choice. No one would have a right to say otherwise.

I just believe in personal freedom.

This is fine if an individual drinking themselves into the grave has no effect on the rest of society.

Unfortunately this isn't the case and Ireland has horrific social problems directly related to alcohol consumption.

This law isn't a solution, but it can only help if even just a little bit

shampon

finty wrote: »

This is fine if an individual drinking themselves into the grave has no effect on the rest of society.

Unfortunately this isn't the case and Ireland has horrific social problems directly related to alcohol consumption.

It's all JOE DUFFY'S fault.

Copper23

I don't get the fuss.

You know they close at 10. Just buy it when ever you go shopping.

Thats like saying, Oh I wanted a Twix bar but I was working until 10pm and the corner shop closes at 9pm. It's not like you starve, just go shopping and buy wheatver you need for the week like a normal person.

If you knwo you're working a late shift and aren't out before 10 then buy a few cans beforehand, it's fairly obvious really.

I actually had a interesting conversation on this with two Italian friends of mine. I was complaining about how the offys have to close at 10 and how its a nanny state. Of course they have no such rule in Italy but its completely negated by the fact they dont have dedicated off-licenses and all the shops close at 6pm and dont open on sundays.

So you cannot buy take out drink after 6. Id wager its the same in a lot of mainland Europen countrys so maybe we don't have it so bad after all.

finty

gurramok wrote: »

Yes. I was caught out by it on a few occasions, very annoying. Now I do stock up on the weekly shop and guess what, thats made me drink more. Totally opposite of what this stupid law was suppose to do.

Funniest post I've seen on boards in a long while.

It was a joke right?

poisonated

Don't realy know, neutral vote

finty wrote: »

Funniest post I've seen on boards in a long while.

It was a joke right?

Haha it's funny but I can totally see where this person is coming from.

BASHIR

Don't realy know, neutral vote

Question: when did this law come into effect? cant find anything online

Caoimhín

Don't realy know, neutral vote

BASHIR wrote: »

Question: when did this law come into effect? cant find anything online

About a year ago, jeezs get with the programme Bashir...

grenache

Caoimhín wrote: »

About a year ago, jeezs get with the programme Bashir...

It came into effect in the summer of 2008 with the introduction of that year's Intoxicating Liquor Act.

BASHIR

Don't realy know, neutral vote

Caoimhín wrote: »

About a year ago, jeezs get with the programme Bashir...

Ha ha thanks just arguing with friends as to when it came in, it is ridiculous though, our local off licence is always real busy round 10 to 10 at weekends. Why we cant be trusted to buy it any time is beyond me. If someone does have a problem with alcohol this problem will not just go away just because there not able to get alcohol after 10 o clock. It really makes no sense.

damn i was wrong thought it was last year too

faceman

Disagree, incorrect decision from our government

pickarooney wrote: »

You seem to arguing both for and against the law here. You suggest that it's a godo thing in that it will prevent people from drinking in the evenings but then say it's not an issue as people can just buy their booze earlier. How is the law anything other than an inconvenience to those who work late? To be honest, those who are most likely to overindulge are the same ones who would have no time constraints preventing them from buying booze during the day so it all seems completely pointless.

Not all alcohol problems though are the stereotype "Sitting in the pub all day" hardened drinkers. Binge drinking is a larger problem. Countries that have tighter alcohol availability have less alcohol related problems.

Im not arguing both for it and against. There is a question mark over whether or not the introduction of the law was for the right reasons. However even if it wasnt, it still has a positive effect.

whatsamsn wrote: »

Its all about freedom faceman
Like if someone wants to drink themself into the grave... thats their choice. No one would have a right to say otherwise.

I just believe in personal freedom.

Thats crap. Would you say that if it was your girlfriend, your father, your mother, your sister, your brother, your child?

Jagle

Don't realy know, neutral vote

faceman wrote: »

Countries that have tighter alcohol availability have less alcohol related problems.

untrue america has very big issues with teens drinking and people who become 21, there are unused to such a drug that when becoems legal for them to buy go all out and abuse it, abuse of the substance is the issue

prinz

prinz wrote: »

It doesn't work because the laws are different, it works because the people are.

Exactly, the people are different and that's what matters. So what's the point in having this silly law which, as far as I can see, only bothers people who work funny hours and fancy a quiet can after work? When you have a country full of people with totally messed up attitudes to drinking, stupid little rules like this are a bit of a joke. If you want to abuse alcohol, it can still be easily done. I love the way that over here, it's not really considered a big deal, even by teenagers, because you can buy alcohol anywhere, from the age of 16. I was at the local Christmas market and there were piles of teenagers drinking beer and mulled wine. No fights, no aggression and no drunkenness, because it's not cool to be drunk here. It is really beyond me why falling over and making a total t*t of yourself is considered cool in Ireland, but until that changes, no poxy law is going to help.

Jazzy

Don't realy know, neutral vote

off licenses closing at 10 is a joke. another retarded depthless decision by a government that gave less & less of a f*ck as time went on

BASHIR

Don't realy know, neutral vote

faceman wrote: »

Not all alcohol problems though are the stereotype "Sitting in the pub all day" hardened drinkers. Binge drinking is a larger problem. Countries that have tighter alcohol availability have less alcohol related problems.

Im not arguing both for it and against. There is a question mark over whether or not the introduction of the law was for the right reasons. However even if it wasnt, it still has a positive effect.



Thats crap. Would you say that if it was your girlfriend, your father, your mother, your sister, your brother, your child?

I disagree with you on the whole binge drinking issue to be honest, myself like the vast majority of people enjoy a few beers on the weekend, and often get drunk. the definition of binge drinking is 'Binge drinking is the modern definition of drinking alcoholic beverages with the primary intention of becoming intoxicated by heavy consumption of alcohol over a short period of time.'

I go to college all week and do work, and lead a very normal life.
In comparison, a very close reletive who died of alcoholism drank everyday and always managed to be drunk every day. This is alcohol abuse and will not be affected by the 10pm rule.
So in my opinion i feel it is definitely a silly rule brought in just to be seen to be tackling this binge drinking 'problem' that is affecting all our lives.

ps sorry to pick on your post jus i disagree with you a little

faceman

Disagree, incorrect decision from our government

Jagle wrote: »

untrue america has very big issues with teens drinking and people who become 21, there are unused to such a drug that when becoems legal for them to buy go all out and abuse it, abuse of the substance is the issue

The US has less alcohol problems than Europe. That's not hearsay. There are numerous alcohol studies which confirm it

Jagle

Don't realy know, neutral vote

faceman wrote: »

The US has less alcohol problems than Europe. That's not hearsay. There are numerous alcohol studies which confirm it

studies arnt great, try talking to people over there, americans who after becoming 21 and legal to drink or teens from the ages of 18-21 are terrible binge drinkers just as bad if not worse then us

Carl Sagan

Don't realy know, neutral vote

Don't really agree with them closing at 10 at all. I've learned to prepare for it now though - I just go up the north every once and a while and stock up.

beans

Don't realy know, neutral vote

I bought a bottle of Cobra in the local (London) newsagent at 2am the other night, knowing full well that I had a two beers at home in the fridge - just for the novelty value.

We all know drink is addictive, and potentially very harmful. The 10pm curfew might stop someone going and buying a second bottle of wine in the local shop at 10:15... But no-one's more protected, society doesn't benefit. If drinkers want it, they'll get it.

Has it been proven that the vintner's lobby was behind this?

whatsamsn

Don't realy know, neutral vote

faceman wrote: »

.....Thats crap. Would you say that if it was your girlfriend, your father, your mother, your sister, your brother, your child?....

:eek: thats your counter argument?


So your view is that this law is fine. that its ok to tell people when and not when to buy alcohol? because someone knows whats best for you, me and everyone else? :rolleyes:

themandan6611

Don't realy know, neutral vote

i'm a grown man (some might differ) but for fu*ks sake I can't buy a beer in an offy after 10pm :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

countrys a mess, the government a joke it would drive you to drink expect its now 10.02pm

El Horseboxo

Don't realy know, neutral vote

They'd wanna sort this law out. I'm emigrating otherwise.

poisonated

Don't realy know, neutral vote

311 people disagree with this law. 27 people agree with it. 9 people are on the fence. I'm wondering if this is a reflection of the people who frequent boards or if Ireland was to have a vote in a few days, would the outcome be similar?