Fairness

locteau

Hi Guys,

Just looking at some events on the Triathlons, multi-sport & running calendar.

If you have a established event (club event) and a new club comes along and "copy cat" the event at the same place, distance, a week before or after.

1) it is fair enough nobodies own location race entitle to do what they want.
2) It is confusing for the athletes
3) They should not get a race permit
3) it is a bit weird to "copy cat" another event
4) Events should have some sort of protection from the NGB
5) it will affect to get volunteers, and heavy on the locality
6) as the original race organizer I would be extremely annoyed

I wanted to do a poll but does not allow me to have the multi answers:P

Just want an opinion please, I think it is relevant and never was discussed in the past.

thank you
Sebastien

Izoard

Competition is good, but I'd agree that better coordination would help.

For example, we've gone from no early-season HIM in 2009, to 3 options in 2010. However, having 2 on the same weekend, seems sub-optimal.

locteau

This is right, I remember last year the only two ironman triathlon distance were a week apart.

I just can't figure out if they are genuine mistakes or is there a real competition between events. For sure we want to all working together to benefit of each event and promote our own club ones.

eoin ryan

Hi Seb,

Thats a bit dissappointing because I know the hoops you have jump through to get permission to establish a race.

Suggest you talk to the governing body if the dates are that close together and they might act or maybe I've got my Tinsel tinted glasses on today.... :rolleyes:

Competition is getting fierce as race organisers realise this is tougher than they imagined and not the windfall they expected.

Must check out what your talking about?! Calendar browsing time after a cup of tea...;)

E

tunney

When there still was a position on the TI council of race secretary I did it for a year.

When the proposals came in for race dates there were loads of clashes. I rang race organisers and asked them to move their races, I begged, I pleaded, I tried logic. No race organiser would move with one or two exceptions. They all said "get the other race(s) to move, we're staying with this date".

It was the most thankless job I've done and lord forbide you should insist that the championship races be of standard distance (+/- margin)

So rather than blaming TI the whole time some of the blame also lies with organisers. It was tried putting a limit on the number of races in the same region on the same weekend and guess what...... race organisers went nuts "HOW DARE YOU TRY AND TELL US WHEN TO RUN OUR RACES?"

However playing devils advocate:

1) it is fair enough nobodies own location race entitle to do what they want.
2) It is confusing for the athletes
3) They should not get a race permit
3) it is a bit weird to "copy cat" another event
4) Events should have some sort of protection from the NGB
5) it will affect to get volunteers, and heavy on the locality
6) as the original race organizer I would be extremely annoyed

2 - why is it confusing for athletes?
3 - why should "they" not get a race permit, does putting a race on first entitle someone to exclusivity over the region? Look at what WTC have done in Nevada with their 30 day window of exclusivity either side of their race? See how well that has gone down?
3 - aren't all triathlons a copy of another one? unless yours is 1497.2m swim/ 41.98989km bike and a 9km run?
4 - what protections and enshrined how? if you feel so strongly why don't you propose a motion for the AGM and have it enshrined? Rules like that have to come from the members not the organisation
5 - I have an issue with the use of volunteers for "for profit events"
6 - monopoly?

griffin100

Triathlons are a business. Fairness doesn't come into it. Tough but true.

There seems to be a big increase in the numbers of races for next year, quite a few being organised by for profit companies. People will vote with their feet and I suspect there will be a lot of half full events in 2011. The best events for me in 2010 were all club run smaller events - portlaois, Carrick, quarry man. I'll try to stick to these sorts of events in 2011 (mdot races excluded).

locteau

Keep in mind my point is a between affiliated clubs.

Example (not real) if a new club is created in Kilkee after the popularity of the event, and the new club decide to take over, or "copy cat" the event without asking the club original organizer and sale it as the real "kilkee triathlon":(

The work done by the staff and volunteers TI, SI and the AAI is not in question here, they all try their very best with what they have.;)

I am questioning fair play and philosophy of what Sport is about. Is there a morality and respect of the work race club organizers do. How would feel if someone create a Triathlon or running event a week before both championship and give 10 000 euro to the winners or even on the same day ?

This is what I am thinking about it, there is no regulation in place to protect our club events and my point is that maybe it is something which could be discussed by all NGB's in all sports.:)

Condo131

locteau wrote: »

1) it is fair enough nobodies own location race entitle to do what they want.
2) It is confusing for the athletes
3) They should not get a race permit
3) it is a bit weird to "copy cat" another event
4) Events should have some sort of protection from the NGB
5) it will affect to get volunteers, and heavy on the locality
6) as the original race organizer I would be extremely annoyed

Much the same problem exists in road running scene, with, in particular, 'carpetbaggers' parachuting their events into, often, prime calendar dates. By and large they "are targeting a different market" (those are the exact words of one very irate carpetbagger who rang me after one of my posts on Boards - actually threatened to sue me for suggesting that he was a carpetbagger - LOL - told him to look up the dictionary first, before making threats of legal action - duh!). Very many of those who "fall" for the slick marketing of the carpetbaggers are new to the sport, and aren't au-fait with the organisation and 'goings-on' of established races - they think that bands, sparse prize lists, dubious course measurements and, often, no event permit are 'normal'.

Most of the established races do not have slick marketing campaigns, BUT they DO have slick event operations - something that the 'carpetbagger' regularly fall down on.

1) None of us has a 'divine right' to run our event, however, it is a small country, with a (relatively) small ART community. In general, organisers/RDs all co-operate wrt scheduling and calendars. The exception is the carpetbagger, who dumps their event on everyone else, with no consultation/notice.

2) I agree it is confusing, but mainly for newbies and first-timers - established athletes generally know the score.

3) Actually it is a bit flattering! You don't copycat a poor event! Oth, there are about 100 road races on the Cork area calendar - there are very few that are 'copycats' and all of those are run by the same organisation/club, not a competing organisation.

4) I agree, but, for road races, the AAI seems to have no coherent policy in place. They are, apparently, of the opinion that these mavericks will, in time, fall by the wayside, as they did in the previous running boom, in the early/mid '80s. In other words, ignore the problem and it will (eventually) go away.

5) Carpetbaggers generally target a different volunteer pool to mainstream events, so its not a major issue.

6) I would too. Thankfully it hasn't yet happened with any of the race with which I am directly involved - touch wood!

If both events are organised by mainstream clubs, then there will be a problem alright, however the only option I see there is to co-operate.

locteau

Thanks for the answer, so I suppose it's more a morality than anything else, it just would be nice if the new club would have contact the other club and discussed it.

I also agree to co-operate is the right way to go as nobody makes money for their own interest.

Thanks everybody, for taking time to put some thought into it.

Krusty_Clown

locteau wrote: »

Thanks for the answer, so I suppose it's more a morality than anything else, it just would be nice if the new club would have contact the other club and discussed it.

Did you get in contact with the other club? I appreciate that the onus should really be on them to give you a ring, but at the same time, getting in touch would be my first port of call, rather than an internet poll. How's your relationship with the organizers in the other club?

locteau

Well we don't really know them (some are members of my local other clubs), it just happen they created their event and clubs based on this event. Which is not the problem, but they know us by participating in the event (even got free entry last year) and suddenly they just decided to set up the race the same week (7days), apply to the co.co saying it is the same race than last year etc....

just find it strange that's all, no worries, we have no intention to go to an argument, just find it very strange the way it was done, or lack of communications. We just could have join force or something like this if they came to us, but it does not seem to be the case. :cool:

It just will mix things up localy and for fundaraising money for the two other club involve to raise money too (in which some are members too)..... 4 clubs looks a lot.

Just a bit consfused. Our club will try to contact them again.

Krusty_Clown

Fair point, and I agree with you 100%. It's just that they might/probably read/post here too, so discussing it here instead of tackling it head on is possibly just going to widen the gap between the two parties. Olive branches and all that..

locteau

I don't think so, and hope by reading this they might want to discuss or contact me. I knew this when I was publishing it. It's not a major problem anyway, and I am sure it will be solved in a proper way.:)

Just wanted to make sure I was not paranoid , and maybe now that they might realise that they could have simply keep in touch.

My aim was only to discuss an interesting subject, no bad feelings behind it. It never has been discussed really properly, and there is a diffference between what you officially can do and what your own ethic is advising you to do.

I think we solved that if I decide tomorrow to organise a "Great run 1" a week before the "Limerick Great run" I basically can do it.

Just interesting, but again no bad feelings against anybody..... there is more important things in life.

Krusty_Clown

I'm still agreeing with you 100%. It's bad form. In my world, it wouldn't happen, until the race calendar is so full, it just becomes a case of survival of the fittest. Until then, good neighborly behaviour is the order of the day!