Tenant and oil

shoes34

I rent out a room in my house to a guy, he leaves for work about 6am and doesn't come back till 7ish. Now when he moved in last May I stipulated the bills would be halfed which I think is the norm. I don't make him pay for SKY as he doesn't watch TV in the sitting room, in fact when he gets in from work he makes his dinner and goes to his room about 9. i don't stop him using the sitting room, OK I may be in it but I don't stop him from coming in. I have never stopped him or made him feel uncomfortable, in fact if anything he makes me uncomfortable, as he tends to drink a lot but then that's his issue not mine. Ever day there is loads of empty bottles in the utility room, and i have to put them in teh bottle bin and then empty the bottle bin as he would just let it over flow.

But that is not the issue I have, we got oil August and I told him it would probably last till the New Year as it did last year. But last weekend I checked how much oil we had and I am not really sure how much we need to get through this cold period so I text him and said that I was going to order oil €200 worth (€100 each) and he rang me back saying well I told him the oil we got in August would last till March. I am 100% sure I said some time in the New Year, but last year it just got incredible cold before Christmas whereas this year it has been freezing for the last few weeks so on account of that and the Christmas period coming I don't want to run out of oil or get frozen pipes over the cold spell.

As I said he leaves for work at 6ish and returns around 7ish so I guess I use the most of the oil but it is timed to come on for a while before he leaves for work and it isn't timed to come on till just before he gets in from work as I'm home around the same time it is also timed to come on about 8 as that is when I get up for work.


was I right to ask him for his share?

scarymoon1

of course you were right to ask - and if he only wants to pay bills for when he's actaully in the house then let him try and find a house like that - he won't! Im hardly ever in my house at the weekends as I tend to go home - do I not have to pay my share of the bills for when im not there at the weeknds - like hell I dont!

shoes34

thanks - just that he seemed to make a bit of a "song and dance" about having to get more oil - he's stays weekends but goes out a lot. The only bills he pays are ESB and obviously the oil but that's not every month just that it is particular cold these months. As I said he doesn't pay for SKY, TV Licence (which i guess I have to provided anyway which I do) and bin collections (again I assume I am to provide this which I do).

Are you the landlord or is there another party involved here?

Knasher

Personally speaking I live in a place with electric heating, so its hard for me to know exactly what I spend on heating. However I do pay more for the ESB because I know for a fact that I use it more (housemate spends most of his time at gf, plus I use a lot of electrical equipment).

In your case however you are 100% correct in wanting to split it evenly especially if its central heating. Most of the oil expended will be spent heating the house from cold when you first come home, after the house is warmed then all it's doing is keeping the house warm which requires a lot less energy. So the biggest expense occurs whether he comes home at 5 or 9. Obviously the more efficient your home is the more pronounced this will be. People tend to assume that the usage is uniform over time, and that if you use it halve the time you will use half as much energy, appart from very primitive systems (e.g. a gas fireplace) this is never the case.

Finally, you stipulated at the start that the bills would be halved. Unless you are doing something extremely wasteful with the heating (I've known people like that) then he really has nothing to blame you for.

ztoical

The laws regarding the Rent a room scheme are very different to laws for a Part 4 tennacy or fixed term lease. You should check the Accommodation forum as you might get better advice then on PI.

Also you should check out threshold. You could drop them an email too, or pop into one of their offices and talk to them.

ztoical

Deleted User wrote: »

Also you should check out threshold. You could drop them an email too, or pop into one of their offices and talk to them.

Threshold and the PRTB deal with tenancies that fall under the Residential Tenancies Act which does not cover the rent a room scheme.

shoes34

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you the landlord or is there another party involved here?

I'm the home owner and I've never in anyway stopped him from doing something just that I feel after he called me that he is making me feel bad asking for more money for oil.

shoes34

Knasher wrote: »

In your case however you are 100% correct in wanting to split it evenly especially if its central heating. Most of the oil expended will be spent heating the house from cold when you first come home, after the house is warmed then all it's doing is keeping the house warm which requires a lot less energy. So the biggest expense occurs whether he comes home at 5 or 9. Obviously the more efficient your home is the more pronounced this will be. People tend to assume that the usage is uniform over time, and that if you use it halve the time you will use half as much energy, appart from very primitive systems (e.g. a gas fireplace) this is never the case.

Finally, you stipulated at the start that the bills would be halved. Unless you are doing something extremely wasteful with the heating (I've known people like that) then he really has nothing to blame you for.

I didn't realise that and also I switch down the thermostat after a while when the house is heated up and sometimes I turn it off in the sitting room if the fire is lite -its an open fire so not lite every night as I hate taking out ashes!

Up de Barrs

When I rented a house I would have been very strict on sharing all the bills exactly equally including ones that come up infrequently like the television licence. But now that I am the landlord I tend to leave a few things go, its hard enough to get a good tenant (there is no shortage of places to rent out there) and if you're happy enough with him other than that I'd let it go.

tenchi-fan

You have a right to ask him to split bills, but oil is a tricky one. Basically, you told him the oil would last into the new year, but then you left the oil running all day long because you were cold.

Look, take the hit - you're the one who wants the really toasty house, he's out working for over 12 hours and generally women complain about how cold it is a lot more than men.

Sky and the TV licence are clearly your baby. As for bins .. unless it's agreed otherwise the landlord is usually responsible.

Despite your paragraph of complaining about him drinking and filling up the utility room, he doesn't sound like a bad guy at all. Put a plastic bin in the utility room for his bottles and tell him to empty it when it's full.

You say he makes you feel uncomfortable because he drinks, yet you're happy enough to take his money. And he goes to his room in the evenings! That's a dream for most landlords.

Quit complaining and pay the couple of hundred for the oil.

Stheno

Tenchi fan I don't agree with you.

Last year I rented a house and sublet a room to a couple, and all bills were split three ways.

At the time I was usually in the house 1-2 nights per week, and rarely there at the weekends as I spent a lot of time in my bf's house.

Now my flatmates were great, and suggested the three way split, but one of them was unemployed and home all day, so used more than I did.

But we split all of the bills three ways and it worked out fine and was accepted by all.

What if the OP decided that they are asleep before the tenant goes to work and switched on the heat to suit when they get up?

tenchi-fan

Stheno wrote: »

What if the OP decided that they are asleep before the tenant goes to work and switched on the heat to suit when they get up?

Then she'd be looking for a new tenant.

shoes34

tenchi-fan wrote: »

You have a right to ask him to split bills, but oil is a tricky one. Basically, you told him the oil would last into the new year, but then you left the oil running all day long because you were cold.

Look, take the hit - you're the one who wants the really toasty house, he's out working for over 12 hours and generally women complain about how cold it is a lot more than men.

Sky and the TV licence are clearly your baby. As for bins .. unless it's agreed otherwise the landlord is usually responsible.

Despite your paragraph of complaining about him drinking and filling up the utility room, he doesn't sound like a bad guy at all. Put a plastic bin in the utility room for his bottles and tell him to empty it when it's full.

You say he makes you feel uncomfortable because he drinks, yet you're happy enough to take his money. And he goes to his room in the evenings! That's a dream for most landlords.

Quit complaining and pay the couple of hundred for the oil.

I never said I left the oil running all day, I work during the day and don't get home till between 6 and 7 so home just before he is and even then the timer is set for 7 and I never changed it as usually I would be heading out to the gym or something. So I don't see why I should paly the couple of hundred for the oil.

the oil is set to come on before he goes to work and again before I go to work so I don't get any extra benefits from it, its his decision to go out most Saturday nights and I don't so maybe I get the extra benefits then.

I don't complain about being cold! The cold spell started earlier this year and as I stated we do have oil in the tank but I am not sure will it see us throught the Christmas and I actually won't be there for part of Christmas as i am going to my parents for two days and also have a wedding so will be gone another two days so at least now the oil won't run out while I am gone. he has advised me that he won't be staying over the Christmas so at least he'll definately have heat! I did say it may last us till the New Year and sure the New Year is only a matter of weeks away.

shoes34

Stheno wrote: »

Tenchi fan I don't agree with you.

Last year I rented a house and sublet a room to a couple, and all bills were split three ways.

At the time I was usually in the house 1-2 nights per week, and rarely there at the weekends as I spent a lot of time in my bf's house.

Now my flatmates were great, and suggested the three way split, but one of them was unemployed and home all day, so used more than I did.

But we split all of the bills three ways and it worked out fine and was accepted by all.

What if the OP decided that they are asleep before the tenant goes to work and switched on the heat to suit when they get up?

thanks, I previously shared with a friend and even though she went to her boyfriend's every Friday and didn't get back till Mondays we still split the bills 50/50 too.

dolphin city

this is a little tricky as its not a "bill" as such.

I would say to pay for the oil yourself. Its your house. What if you ask him to pay for extra oil and he says "ah no, sure Im only in my room, I don't need it". Would you then not get any oil at all. Or would you be getting oil anyway to heat your house.

I say bite the bullet and buy it yourself - you seem to be using most of it anyway - his half share is helping heat all the rooms although he is only in his bedroom.

scarymoon1

no make him pay for it op - dont pay for it yourself!

shoes34

dolphin city wrote: »

this is a little tricky as its not a "bill" as such.

I would say to pay for the oil yourself. Its your house. What if you ask him to pay for extra oil and he says "ah no, sure Im only in my room, I don't need it". Would you then not get any oil at all. Or would you be getting oil anyway to heat your house.

I say bite the bullet and buy it yourself - you seem to be using most of it anyway - his half share is helping heat all the rooms although he is only in his bedroom.

He uses the bathrooms, the kitchen, the utilty, the conservatory the hallways the hotpress so maybe he doesn't sit in the sitting room all the time but he does use it too. I know I stated in my original post that he eats dinner and goes to bed but during the days he is off work or on Saturdays obviously he doesn't sit in his room all day and also we have a clothes horse in the conservatory and he hangs clothes on the rads in the kitchen so does mean I should turn the rads off in there when he has clothes on them as he doesn't want to pay for as much of the oil. He knew when he moved in that the bills and oil were split 50/50 and if he didn't want to pay 50/50 he could have looked for somewhere else.

shoes34

I just checked over the tenancy agreement he signed and I know many of you may say its not worth the papers its written on but he signed it and it stipulated that

• To pay promptly all accounts for the supply of electricity, oil and SKY.
• Not to reduce any payment of rent by making any deductions from it or by setting any sum off against it.

Anyway hopefully this will be resolved as I don't like confrontation and I guess at the end of the day if I chose to be uncomfortable because he drinks thats my problem, its not like i don't like a drink myself!!!

boarduser1980

I think you should buy the oil yourself, but up his rent so that over the year you are getting your oil money.

you could always give him his notice and then get someone else in to rent with a higher rent but say oil is included in the rent.

regarding the contract, how long is the contract for 6 months, 1 year? who gave him this contract, you or a letting agency?

shoes34

Dambant wrote: »

I think you should buy the oil yourself, but up his rent so that over the year you are getting your oil money.

you could always give him his notice and then get someone else in to rent with a higher rent but say oil is included in the rent.

regarding the contract, how long is the contract for 6 months, 1 year? who gave him this contract, you or a letting agency?

I gave him the contract on his request and its for a year, I told him to read it first and if there was anything he wanted to change to let me know and it was obviously fine by him.

I guess unfortunately you live and your learn. I wish it was that easy to get a tenant where i live but its not and also in these econmic times I need the rent money so I guess I just have to grin and bear it. Have an ad on daft for another room in my house so if I can get this rented maybe I'll think of asking him to leave.

I'm assuming if I lived in an area where there was gas piped in that he would half those bills as they would come in like ESB bills and phone bills but I guess I'll never know.

dolphin city

dolphin city wrote: »

this is a little tricky as its not a "bill" as such.

I would say to pay for the oil yourself. Its your house. What if you ask him to pay for extra oil and he says "ah no, sure Im only in my room, I don't need it". Would you then not get any oil at all. Or would you be getting oil anyway to heat your house.

I say bite the bullet and buy it yourself - you seem to be using most of it anyway - his half share is helping heat all the rooms although he is only in his bedroom.

That's a ridiculous argument. When 2 people are sharing, 2 people pay for the oil. If he chooses to stay in his room, that's his choice. You don't pick and choose what you pay for depending on when and where you are in the house. I had an ex-flatmate try to pull that on me once, asking me to pay more because I stayed 'up in Dublin' most weekends - when in fact I would spend most of them at my boyfriend's place or even go back to my parents'. It's impossible to prove how much time each is at home, and totally unfair to decide someone is paying more or less based on how much time you think they're there. If this guy wants to live in and pay for one room, let him live in a studio. He signed up to live in a house and have access to all the facilities, so he can pay for them! It's one thing not to pay for Sky if he never watches TV, but everyone needs heating.

Cheap Thrills!

dolphin city wrote: »

this is a little tricky as its not a "bill" as such.

I would say to pay for the oil yourself. Its your house. What if you ask him to pay for extra oil and he says "ah no, sure Im only in my room, I don't need it".

That's not how it works. He didn't rent a bedsit, he rented a half share in a house. If he wanted to pull the old 'I stay in my room' nonsense then he should not be renting half a house and trying then to shirk the expenses that come along with that.

If he chooses to stay in his room that's his business, it certainly doesn't exempt him from paying for oil. Especially seeing as he seems to have no problem availing of the hot rads to dry his clothes.

dolphin city wrote: »

Would you then not get any oil at all. Or would you be getting oil anyway to heat your house.

Yes of course she'd be getting oil, but if he had an issue with paying for half the heating bill then he shouldn't have moved in. Simple. In Ireland heating is an indesputable bill unless your a naive 18 year old fresh from Mammy and Daddy's house who thinks heat is free.

dolphin city wrote: »

I say bite the bullet and buy it yourself - you seem to be using most of it anyway - his half share is helping heat all the rooms although he is only in his bedroom.

That's his problem, as I said he's renting half a houseshare not a bedsit. He is liable for half the bill. If he refuses to pay give him his notice. Can't stand this type of freeloading tight arse little chancer.

WhodahWoodah

shoes34 wrote: »

I rent out a room in my house to a guy, he leaves for work about 6am and doesn't come back till 7ish. Now when he moved in last May I stipulated the bills would be halfed which I think is the norm.

But that is not the issue I have, we got oil August and I told him it would probably last till the New Year as it did last year. But last weekend I checked how much oil we had and I am not really sure how much we need to get through this cold period so I text him and said that I was going to order oil €200 worth (€100 each) and he rang me back saying well I told him the oil we got in August would last till March.
was I right to ask him for his share?

OP when your housemate moved in he agreed to split the oil 50/50. When you estimated how long the oil would last you had no way of foreseeing the cold we were going to have this year. Your housemate seems to be using the whole house except the living room. From what you've said that has been his choice.

Unless you've been huddling up in the living room basking in glorious heat that hasn't been present in the rest of the house I don't see the issue. It might be that your housemate is trying not to pay because he needs all his cash for booze to drink in his room but that's really not your problem.

You also said in a subsequent post that it's actually in black and White in the lease he insisted on that home heating oil is to be split between ye so I don't think he has a leg to stand on. He's not just renting a bedroom from you, he's renting half the use of the house from you. How he chooses to use that is his own lookout. He has the right to use the living room but if he doesn't take that up you've still kept up your end of the bargain by making it available to him.

I suggest you should talk to him about this. Maybe he feels that if you're in the living room night after night that he'd be intruding. That's one of the pitfalls of being the tenant of an owner occupier. If he's going into his room every night and never at all just coming into the living room even to just watch the soaps or do nothing then maybe he doesn't feel comfortable in your house and maybe that's why he feels irked about the oil.

I think you can either demand that he pays for his share of the oil, but if you do you should make a big effort to at least find out whether he feels comfortable to spend time in the living room with you, or else do as some here have suggested and give him his notice and find a new tenant.

From what you've been posting he's not comfortable joining you and you're also not comfortable knowing he's in the other room drinking or whatever he's doing. It doesn't sound like either of you are enjoying the houseshare.

Either way find a resolution before buying the oil!!

LegacyUser

Oil is different. ESB is usually split in terms of 50/50 as it is usually quite inexpensive, Oil, however, manages to get more expensive every year so of course it's going to be of concern. You said you do use it probably more than the rest, so I think you should pay for the majority of it, at least. I know we've had a cold snap, but throwing on jumpers/ hot water bottles/ layering/ electric heaters all can help out people who might not have the resources to fork out for a new tank every few months.

The same situation happened to my OH recently. He was asked to pay for oil even though he wouldn't be at the house (at all) during the weekend or during any of the college breaks (he's a mature student). The tenants asked him to pay 100 for oil that should have lasted more than it did. I was in the house a few times and noticed the heating being on at 12 in the day (pre-cold snap) and that the tenants who worked nights liked to keep the house nice and toastie when only half of them were there..

I say talk to him about it, ask him to pay some of it at least. Buy yourself an electric heater (you can get really nice fake-fire ones in Woodies for maybe 80 euro) and learn to put on a jumper and drink tea when you're cold. I'm just as wasteful as the next person, so I can't judge! Just offering advice

shoes34

WhodahWoodah wrote: »

You also said in a subsequent post that it's actually in black and White in the lease he insisted on that home heating oil is to be split between ye so I don't think he has a leg to stand on. He's not just renting a bedroom from you, he's renting half the use of the house from you. How he chooses to use that is his own lookout. He has the right to use the living room but if he doesn't take that up you've still kept up your end of the bargain by making it available to him.

I suggest you should talk to him about this. Maybe he feels that if you're in the living room night after night that he'd be intruding.

If he's going into his room every night and never at all just coming into the living room even to just watch the soaps or do nothing then maybe he doesn't feel comfortable in your house and maybe that's why he feels irked about the oil.

He informed me when he was moving in that he would be getting a TV for his room and that he wouldn't be using the one in the sitting room so that is why I don't charge him for SKY, now in saying that I was on holidays for two weeks and I'm sure he didn't sit in his room! I was surprised and obviously told him he was free to use the sitting room and he does use it sometimes but not every night.

smiles302

Hmm that you did say you expected to have to order oil in the new year, could you talk to him and see if he could pay his half in January?

Purely to keep the peace, Christmas can be expensive and that's possibly why he seemed upset when you asked him for money.

That 100 euro just to keep oil in the tank over Christmas would definitely be worth spending, replacing burst pipes etc would be your expensive no matter what happened.

dudara

Moved to Accomodation & Property

dudara

OP - in my view, he is equally liable for the oil (assuming that there is no exceesive use of it on your part). It is part of the normal cost of running the household. If he doesn't want to pay for it, get him to stay in his room with the radiator off and use no hot water.

djimi

OP tell him in no uncertain terms to get a grip on reality and wake up to the fact that in weather as cold as this of course you are going to use more oil. Hes living in the big bad world now where heating costs money, and the alternative to him not paying the heating bills is to live in a cold house. Its a 50/50 split on heating bills; you told him that and he agreed to it. If he doesnt like it tell him to go find somewhere to live that will provide his heating for free; hell be a long time finding such a place.

Basically get tough on this idiot. If the heating bill needs to be paid then he has to pay it. By not paying it you can claim he is in breach of his lease (which I dont think means a whole lot in your situation but it might be enough to call his bluff) and that you would have to consider asking him to leave as he is not paying his bills.

Graces7

Seems it is the confrontation that is the worrying part here as the lease is crystal clear; call Threshold as they are often very willing to act as informal mediator and write to the man involved.

Getting that third part input can sort a difficult situation out faster and without more repercussions.

Many of us find confrontation very hard indeed....:rolleyes:
Yes he should do as he signed and agreed to do.