SGU Cancelled

GSPfan

don ramo wrote: »

also atlantis started out a bit like universe in that it was more hardcore that SG-1, with this vicious new enemy, they kinda held onto the humour from SG-1, but i think the show changed direction after season 1, and i put it down to BSG,

I really don't see how that could be the case. I'd argue that Stargate Sg-1 was more dark at the start and then that became more comical. I don't think that has anything to do with the influence of another show. I just think thats how a show evolves. The Goa-ould and Wraith both became less fearsome as the shows went on. If your main baddy is not even scary anymore then of course the show becomes a little less serious. Was O'Neill mocking Goa-oulds to their faces in season 1 like he was in season 4,5,6,etc.?? Not really. Was Sheppard nicknaming Wraith in season 1? Not really.
Again, I think blaming Stargate issues on Battlestar Galactica is baseless. I do agree that Stargate Universe would have become a little more light hearted if it continued, but only because it seems to be the way every show goes.

GSPfan

ixoy wrote: »

Agreed! It's also why I can watch, and enjoy, sci-fi lite candy such as "Eureka" and "Warehouse 13". There's lots of flavours in the genre out there. Shouldn't be too snobby about other shows. Let's stop the hate.

Yeah I agree. I actually do not like Eureka or Warehouse 13 but I don't blame that on anything other than the fact that I don't like it. And I don't go on Eureka's forum and pick holes in it. I don't like Sanctuary either. And I'm happy that those shows are being made for the people who do like them. I'm proud to say I've been a Sci-Fi tv fan my whole tv life but that may change over the next few years because it seems like all the type of shows I like are no longer popular and will no longer be made. That thought makes me sad.

And before anyone quotes me on what I said in that last paragraph...... I understand that it is a public forum where we all come to share opinions and blah blah blah and that we all have a right to express our opinions, good or bad. I get that. I just can't comprehend why anyone with a dislike for a tv show would go into a forum and criticise the show???!! I don't want you to explain it to me either because I will never understand. I just won't.

senordingdong

GSPfan wrote: »

Was Sheppard nicknaming Wraith in season 1? Not really.

He was.

Have to step in to play devils advocate here.
Alot of people are hoping the show will get renewed in some manner or another, over some other network or another.

I feel the need to remind everyone that these same stories did the rounds when SG1 got cancelled. Every idea was thrown around, from Showtime reclaiming it, to Sky 1 taking it. But, as true as any of those claims may or may not have been...none of them mattered as ScYFy came out and said that even though they didn't want the show anymore, they would not release it to another network.
We don't want it, but we don't want anybody else to have it either.

Instead we were promised movies which in fairness, we got.
But at the same time, they were ****e.

The third movie was put off because MGMs increasing financial problems, and the latest was that the Atlantis movie would go ahead once SGU was on it's own feet (:rolleyes:) but I can't see how this will work considering the difficulty with the direct to dvd market, and the fact that mgm would have to finance it, despite not having a pot to piss in.

The Stargate crew and MGM were, apparently, both warned about dealing with SyFy after what happened with SG-1 and Atlantis (but then again, they seemed almost delighted to get rid of Atlantis in favour of SGU) so I wonder how their relationship is now.
MGM are yet to comment, but I think finances played a big part in this.

GSPfan

senordingdong wrote: »

He was.

Ha, was he? Lucky I covered myself by saying Not Really! Well you know what I meant right?!

pegasus1

GSPfan wrote: »

Oh and fook Robert Knepper! T-bag is the devil. He cancels any show he is in. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:mad:

Yes indeed...He is tooooo evil for Tv!!

senordingdong

GSPfan wrote: »

Ha, was he? Lucky I covered myself by saying Not Really! Well you know what I meant right?!

That Atlantis went downhill after its good first season?....yeah I get that.

GSPfan

I'm hoping Robert Knepper does a few years on reality tv shows. They could do with a few cancellations.

Memnoch

ixoy wrote: »

The sci-fi in BSG was actually quite light in that it didn't explore many themes that you'd often find in a sci-fi show. In fact it was even worse in that it didn't even try to explain many of them in terms of science but instead went down a mystical, fantastical route. I enjoyed it - but I don't think it was necessarily good science fiction.

Not sure I agree. There might not have been as much of a variety of SCI-FI in BSG as we would typically expect, but what it was, was solid. Also, I don't think it was mystical and fantastical. In fact that was one similarity between BSG and SG-1, the approach they took to religion and religious belief and how that affects people and their actions. But the whole circular nature of human endeavour and frailty was beautifully explored. SGU on the other hand almost treats religion as a positive, something which has dismayed me when compared with the enlightened view of SG1. Though the shuttle episode in SGU went a LITTLE way to redeem it. Personally, I think SGU's philosophical stance is a sad reflection of religious attitudes in American society right now, but rather than examine it critically they've taken the easy option of appeasing.

I'd definitely level the same accusation at the younger members of the BSG crew who were drinking, fighting, etc. due to their own soap opera issues. It grew tiresome by the third season with yawn-inducing love triangles, etc.
The senior crew were generally excellent though!

Well, it's been a WHILE since I watched BSG, so I don't remember all the details. There was some filler content for sure, there always is, but it wasn't nearly as often as in SGU. Also, I don't have a problem with character drama, but there's just no getting around the fact that the drama in SGU is horrendously written.

Have you switched off or not? I'm confused I don't think there's been a strong science fiction show (not tinged with space and soap opera elements) since SG1/SGA. I don't count BSG in that regard.
For me, proper science fiction, is going to have to come from novels. The medium of TV and film (for the most part) is failing me.

Well BSG wasn't as strong as Babylon 5, but it was enjoyable. I agree with the rest of what you're saying though. Give me Ian M Banks over an SGU season any day of the week.

One thing that I neglected to mention is an example of why/how the writing in SGU is so poor. And this is actually more of a technical issue. It is the lack of a clear ANTAGONIST. This is one of the most important aspects of drama. PROTAGONISTS vs ANTAGONISTS. That is what drives conflict and story. It is in clashing against the antagonists that the main characters really reveal themselves and endear themselves to us. And this is the main reason why I think SGU is failing so badly, there isn't/hasn't been a clear antagonist, that ever lurking menace in the background.

In Babylon 5 (S2 onwards) it was the shadows, and President Clarke.
In DS9 it was the Dominion.
In Voyager it was the Borg/Kaizon.
In SG1 it was the Gould.
In SGA it was the Wraith.
In BSG it was the Cylon,
In SGU? Some wierd blue aliens who occasionally might or might not turn up.

We had episodes in BSG where they were losing water or didn't have enough power. But those episodes were exciting, because they were without water due to Cylon sabotage, and when they needed to get resources they had to have a massive space battle with the cylons.

It's the complete lack of real antagonist that's lead to a total lack of conflict. And so they explore the characters through these boring secondary mechanisms rather than having the characters show themselves to us through their actions against the enemy.

GSPfan

Too much analysis for me. And a lot of it unfounded and opinion. I just watch it and enjoy it.

noodler

liamtech wrote: »

I wasnt a fan of BSG, or caprica, never watched them

Dear god, there is your problem right there.

liamtech wrote: »

Universe was Stargate trying to be BSG - )

How would you know? You never watched it.

Why do people have to lash out at an infinitely better show? Maybe you are more upset about SGU's cancellation than you are letting on.

Anyway, it is a shame, I loved where Caprica could have gone but whilst I waited for it to try and get there SGU was the show I was enjoying far more.

Something has to be done about downloads - I never watch Tv shows anymore becos we can get them from the states after they air. Assuming everyone in the US does the same (and considering that is the market they care about) I really hope they are at least able to establish how popular a show even when TV viewings are discounted.

Memnoch

noodler wrote: »

Something has to be done about downloads - I never watch Tv shows anymore becos we can get them from the states after they air. Assuming everyone in the US does the same (and considering that is the market they care about) I really hope they are at least able to establish how popular a show even when TV viewings are discounted.

It doesn't really matter how popular a show is in terms of internet downloads. Not in the current system.

Money is made from advertising, and it doesn't matter how many millions download the show because they are not going to watch the adverts and so as far as the network/advertisers are concerned, don't really count in the final reckoning. It's the same reason that DV-R figures aren't that important, because people simply fast forward past all the adverts.

As has been pointed out, the solution is to put the shows online, all over the world simultaneously with a few well directed adverts.

But right now, it is not beneficial for the networks(at least they seem to think say based on their current stance) to do this, when they can simply put on something else that can get higher ratings with reality tv shows that cost a lot less to produce.

Things will change eventually, hopefully, but it's going to take time.

Memnoch

GSPfan wrote: »

Too much analysis for me. And a lot of it unfounded and opinion. I just watch it and enjoy it.

Understanding is a 3-edged sword.

noodler

Memnoch wrote: »

It doesn't really matter how popular a show is in terms of internet downloads. Not in the current system.

Money is made from advertising, and it doesn't matter how many millions download the show because they are not going to watch the adverts and so as far as the network/advertisers are concerned, don't really count in the final reckoning.

Ah yeah obviosuly, my point was I hope they realise there is an actual point to the internet reform when it comes to some shows (I mean I hope they can see SGU has 6m watchers around the world rather than 2m watching SYFY in the States - at least knowing this compels them(or someone) to attempt some sort of reform. I mean if the show just plain wasn't popular then the downloads wouldn't matter that much).

ixoy

Memnoch wrote: »

Not sure I agree. There might not have been as much of a variety of SCI-FI in BSG as we would typically expect, but what it was, was solid. Also, I don't think it was mystical and fantastical.

What about that finale though? All the portents, etc. were never explained. There was definitely a mystical element there - there was a lot of annoyed fans when it aired. Sure there was some explanation but it wasn't very thorough, especially the cyclical nature of it all.
I mean it did use sci-fi to explore some very interesting concepts (like "Moon" did recently), but I don't think it used the medium to its best effect to get answers.

In fact that was one similarity between BSG and SG-1, the approach they took to religion and religious belief and how that affects people and their actions. But the whole circular nature of human endeavour and frailty was beautifully explored.

I'll give you that. It explored the different manners of faith very well. Not the most scientific element of sci-fi but an interesting human study.

SGU on the other hand almost treats religion as a positive, something which has dismayed me when compared with the enlightened view of SG1. Though the shuttle episode in SGU went a LITTLE way to redeem it. Personally, I think SGU's philosophical stance is a sad reflection of religious attitudes in American society right now, but rather than examine it critically they've taken the easy option of appeasing.

Can't say I agree here. The only overt religious element appeared to be the alien monolith planet and they cruelly crushed that one. There's no mention of Ascendents here and you can just as equally go with Rush's beliefs as Scott's.

Well, it's been a WHILE since I watched BSG, so I don't remember all the details. There was some filler content for sure, there always is, but it wasn't nearly as often as in SGU. Also, I don't have a problem with character drama, but there's just no getting around the fact that the drama in SGU is horrendously written.

There's no getting around the fact that you believe it's badly written. There's a big difference there. I found many of the relationships in BSG dull too - such as the way everybody was always so grim, Apollo's daddy issues, Kara's endless rebellious atittude. This culminated in the dire boxing episode where they all carthatically worked out their issues in a woefull overt metaphorical moment. Ugh.

Well BSG wasn't as strong as Babylon 5, but it was enjoyable.

Nothing beats B5 for planned arcs. The reason? Nothing was planned like B5. SGU is only loosely planned and BSG was made up as they went along (something that was very clear later on and grated with me).

I agree with the rest of what you're saying though. Give me Ian M Banks over an SGU season any day of the week.

Yep. The author has far more control of their universe and doesn't have to pander or re-adjust to the viewer in the same way. You can also dip into a greate range. If you love your science, you've got the ultra hard sci-fi of something like Greg Egan's "Schild Ladder". Alternatively, you can go to steam punk or space opera or fantasy/sci-fi mashups, etc etc. Much more depth than any TV show can really give us!

. And this is the main reason why I think SGU is failing so badly, there isn't/hasn't been a clear antagonist, that ever lurking menace in the background.

I can see why you'd feel that. I do think the show would benefit a lot more from either a clear opponent or some over-riding goal (other than getting home). It might've appeared later on but it would have benefitted the show if they had, for example, made the blue aliens a consistent threat.

noodler

ixoy wrote: »

There's no getting around the fact that you believe it's badly written. There's a big difference there. I found many of the relationships in BSG dull too - such as the way everybody was always so grim, Apollo's daddy issues, Kara's endless rebellious atittude. This culminated in the dire boxing episode where they all carthatically worked out their issues in a woefull overt metaphorical moment. Ugh.

I woudn't have said SGU was badly written either - just maybe lacked direction a little

Regarding the BSG epsiode: Unfinished Business? Also dealth in a huge way how relationships had changed since

New Caprica

.

Widely regarded as a very good episode, isn't it? Maybe you just have bad taste.

ixoy

noodler wrote: »

Regarding the BSG epsiode: Unfinished Business? Also dealth in a huge way how relationships had changed since

New Caprica

.

Widely regarded as a very good episode, isn't it? Maybe you just have bad taste.

And it was poorly done IMO. FWIW, the thread here showed how a significant number also didn't care for it. It showed to me how the show too often used grit, heavy camera work, and tension as substitutes for good story telling (IMO).

Anyway, it's off topic - if nothing else it shows how different shows appeal to different facets for people and SGU clearly didn't appeal to enough people.

noodler

ixoy wrote: »

And it was poorly done IMO. FWIW, the thread here showed how a significant number also didn't care for it. It showed to me how the show too often used grit, heavy camera work, and tension as substitutes for good story telling (IMO).

Anyway, it's off topic - if nothing else it shows how different shows appeal to different facets for people and SGU clearly didn't appeal to enough people.

Alright, won't drag it too far more off topic apart from just to say that as many people seemed to like it as well.

Also: when you are commenting on a show directly after it airs I think viewers are nearly always disappointed when it didn't advance the main plot much (something which will grate them whether or not the episode was good - haven't read any of the comments in that thread yet but I wouldn't be surprised to see evidence of this).

don ramo

some people seem to think most people ripping SGU apart hate it, i dont think thats the case, i really like SGU, but i dont love it like i did SG-1 and SGA, i could see myself loving the show, its more the last 4-5 episodes that i really really started getting into it,

the similarities to BSG are obvious to most people, maybe there not similarities but probably more the feel of the show, dark and moody, i think BSG worked mainly due to as stated earlier that there was a great antagonist, the 33 min episode was great and really showed we had a great show on our hands,

but i think the stargate crew got a feeling of inferiorty that theeve been doing sci-fi for so long and BSG comes along and steals there thunder and they want to show they can do better,

they did try and kinda failed in season 1 they went way to far with the caracter development, and never balanced it out with a proper antagonist, rush was a good rival to young, wray was just a stupid rival (she can easily free up some cash if they get a 3rd season) but there wasnt a real antagonist,

i think now that theyve come across some aliens and are gonna fight alongside them (even though they had no choice) it will finally give the show that direction thats been missing,

its really to bad it took so long and i do blame the showrunners for that, the blame solely rests in there hands, i hope that we get a 3rd season and if we do that the showrunners do there job and make a show that appeals more to a Stargate audience than a BSG audience, it didnt really appeal to either but the dark moody angst filled stuff isnt what stargate it about,

i dont want the show to change into SG-1 or SGA it is its own show, but they have to find some kinda tweak that makes SGU standout from the stargate series while also still being a stargate series,

the concept is a timeless sci-fi classic, and should easily work, its brought in new fans, yet has somehow not kept it tradional fans, so something went wrong somewhere,

GSPfan

I wonder how long it takes for any possible deal with another network to be struck considering that all the actors are probably out of work and free to sign up to another project as soon as possible.
If even one of the main cast commits to another project then the show is screwed no matter what. The sets will probably be destroyed too. It either happens very soon in my eyes or not at all. And I'd bet on not at all.

Anita Blow

You never know. There may be a reason MGM never informed the cast in advance. They might have thought they could strike up a deal with another network first.
Between Mark Savela's tweets (The VFX guy for SGU) and Brian Jacob Smiths tweets, I'm thinking they know something we don't regarding a pick up

Bajingo

My prediction was correct..but i'm not happy about it

GSPfan

Just read those twitters there and Lt Scotts one is very hopeful of it not being over. You can tell he loves it. I'm not gonna let myself think it'll happen. I'd rather the surprise if it does.

senordingdong

Every staff member of every show is always 'hopeful' after the show gets cancelled, but like I said, a pick up is all dependant on whether or not SyFy will release the show.

Which they would have no reason to do unless there's something in it for them.

I remember when SG1 transferred over to SyFy and suffered drastically for it.

strife

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

.



WATCH FRINGE!

Seriously, Fringe is one of the best shows on tv at the moment

Hmmm you make an interesting arguement i shall look into it
Cheers

LoGiE

Has anyone seen the generic stink 'Alphas' that Syfy have green lit to replace Caprica and SGU? Whoever's making the decisions over there needs a brutal beat down.

Your never going to attract viewers if you keep cancelling shows before they have a chance to develop and especially if you split the seasons in half with a 5 month wait in between!! It's obviously easier to churn out bubblegum sci-fi like Eurika and Warehouse 13 were the SFX are done on the cheap on someones mac.

Thought provoking, adult science fiction now rests in the hands of Fringe and the Event. Syfy should stick to that ghost hunter rubbish that appeals to the brain dead and well, Wrestling?!? idiots.

Anita Blow

According to twitter, Space Channel is gauging fan interest for it to be picked-up.

Also surprised to hear that Syfy didn't even bother negotiating for a 3rd season. They contacted MGM a day before the announcement to say they weren't renewing it. Neither the cast or producers were told (half of them were on an aircraft carrier) but Syfy went ahead and announced it, and yet for Sanctuary they wanted to wait till the producers got back from Australia to tell them if they were renewed or not.
What an asshole of a network

noodler

Does the studio get anything from DVD/BR sales?

If not, then surely that is something that should be looked into in the future?

Anita Blow

Nope that goes straight to MGM. But the more money MGM get from those sales, the less they have to charge the networks so it indirectly benefits them

Johnmb

Anita Blow wrote: »

Nope that goes straight to MGM. But the more money MGM get from those sales, the less they have to charge the networks so it indirectly benefits them

Yeah, but network executives have a track record of not being too bright, so unless it directly benefits them they won't count it. The idea of indirect benefits just goes way over their heads.

GSPfan

senordingdong wrote: »

Every staff member of every show is always 'hopeful' after the show gets cancelled, but like I said, a pick up is all dependant on whether or not SyFy will release the show.

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought the rest of them were delighted with the cancellation.:rolleyes:

If any of you have time, go to gateworld and listen to the latest podcast discussing the cancellation. They don't mention anything about SYFY not releasing the show. They seem to think its all down to money as to whether or not another station, or a collaboration of stations, can save the show. I'm gonna go with their view for the moment! Its probably more informed.