Bloody barking!!

trio

Hi All,

This is not a very important problem in the great scheme of things, but it's been kinda bugging me.

We have a JRT for a few months now. About 2 years old (we don't know for sure - rescue dog). Anyway he is the most indoor of all indoor dogs, possibly because of his background. Just wants to be inside the whole time and doesn't seem to know what to do with himself outside.

So when we do put him outside.....he barks. And barks and barks. Sometimes it's triggered by a neighbourhood dog, but often times it's just for something for him to do. It's like my brain is being drilled by Woody Woodpecker!

I understand that dogs are bored outside. So I give him a tricky Kong. And don't intend to keep him out that long. Maybe half an hour, maybe even less. But after just FIVE MINUTES!!! the barking starts. He can't possibly be finished his Kong in that time! It takes him ages inside!

We have tried everything. We rap on the window without him seeing us. We shout from inside the house. We make commotions with saucepans. Anything to break his concentration. And he stops, perplexed at this new noise, for about five minutes. Then he forgets all about the noise and starts again!

And it's also stressful for me basically having to be "on guard", alert, ever ready to spring up and make some noise to distract him without him seeing me. Ridiculous!

And our garden is pretty interesting actually. But he doesn't even dig! It's not that he doesn't know how - he's definately buried some bones. But only the odd time.

Anyway it's kinda wrecking my head. At this rate we'll be keeping him in 24/7, other than his walks (2 a day, so it's not lack of exercise!).

What does everyone else do in this situation? Do you just not put your dogs out at all? Surely there must be other owners whose dogs are big barkers?

dvet

Is it just right now when the weather is bad, or is he always like this?

Either way, it would be fine to let him back in whenever he gets bored, even if he's only been out for 5 mins. I know that you say you'd feel bad if he was inside all day, but dogs are very individual. I'm all for dogs being outside, but some just prefer to be in, and that's fine too, if they're happy with it!

So if your little guy doesn't seem to enjoy being outside then it would be perfectly ok just to let him out for a few minutes at a time to do his wees etc... as long as he still gets loads of walks/exercise, (which you said he does!) then it should be no problem

And it will save you (and the neighbours) from going slowly crazy!

trio

I just don't want him to think "OK, if I bark I'll be let back in".

He's pretty much always been like this - he hasn't a clue what to do in the garden. At some stage he's set upon barking as something to do.

I'm pretty soft about dogs needing to be indoors as much as outdoors BUT I have to admit that I find it really hard to grasp the concept of a dog being indoors all the time except for walks. Even cats go out more than that!

fatmammycat

My old dobermann never went out either, unless I was out there, he would just stand at the door or scratch at it until he was let back in. Some dogs just do not to be seperated from their owners. Having said that, if I left the house he'd sleep in the kitchen or at the top of the stairs until I returned and be pretty quiet. But even in summer he wouldn't go out and lie in a patch of sunlight or anything like that.

dvet

trio wrote: »

I just don't want him to think "OK, if I bark I'll be let back in".

He's pretty much always been like this - he hasn't a clue what to do in the garden. At some stage he's set upon barking as something to do.

I'm pretty soft about dogs needing to be indoors as much as outdoors BUT I have to admit that I find it really hard to grasp the concept of a dog being indoors all the time except for walks. Even cats go out more than that!

I know what you mean, I'm from the countryside and was raised with outdoor dogs as the norm! But, if he does really prefer being indoors, it's not really any harm either. If it's really bothering you though, there might be things you can do to help, but it depends on the reason for his barking.

As you were saying, there's loads to stimulate him in the garden so it doesn't sound like a boredem thing as such. So it could be that he's territorial (barking at othe dogs), or it could be that he's anxious about being outdoors in general, or it could be because he's anxious about being seperated from you. Do you reckon it could be any of these?

How does he cope with being apart from you in the house (i.e. the family in one room and him in another?) Or is he never normally alone during the day?

liquoriceall

Must say my dog never goes out if Im at home he wants to be with me, doesnt worry me, however if we are at my mothers house (&farm) he wants to be out on his own for some of the time. Cant see what harm its doing shur if he wants to be in let him

SNORBEAST

Anti bark collars can be bought in most pet shops

dvet

Yes but there is a lot more to know about anti barking collars before you use them. For dogs who are barking out of anxiety (general nervousness, or separation anxiety), then the shock collars make things worse than usual, however the type of anti barking collars that spray citronella at the dog's face can help. But either way they're not the first port of call!! That's why it's important to figure out what's up first.

illicit007

There are a few electronic devices available on the market to stop dogs barking.

There are anti-barking collars, a few types.
Citronella ones, that release a spray that dogs dislike when they bark excessively.
Vibrating and high pitched sound ones
even Static Shock ones that give the dog a small electro static discharge shock, similar to the type you get from touching the car on a hot summers day. If you get one of these I would recommend getting one that has a dial to adjust the intensity and use it at the lowest setting your dog seems to notice.

Also there are remote controlled or 'bark activated' ultra sonic devices you can leave outside that will also make the noise dogs dislike when its triggered.

Another tip is if you can actually teach your dog a 'bark' or 'speak' command then you can also teach him a 'shush' or 'quiet' command.

SNORBEAST

Maybe the dog is just bored, a good long walk could do the trick too.

McGarnagle92

Maybe spending some time in your garden with your dog would help?

trio

McGarnagle92 wrote: »

Maybe spending some time in your garden with your dog would help?

Oh yeah sure....why not trot out and entertain the dog whenever he's outside as well as entertain him inside all day long and bring him for 2 walks a day - Sure let's go for the whole Umbilical Cord experience!!!

Re: barking collars - my friend got a citronella collar for her dog. He figured out how to bark like a maniac for 10 minutes straight and he'd use it all up! And then he could bark away without any bother all day long!

With regards to the shock ones...not in this dogs case, being a very timid rescue dog who was mistreated. He's very nervous and it would set him back a lot in all the progress we've made with his confidence.

it could be that he's anxious about being outdoors in general, or it could be because he's anxious about being seperated from you. Do you reckon it could be any of these?

How does he cope with being apart from you in the house (i.e. the family in one room and him in another?) Or is he never normally alone during the day?

There's not a bother on him in the house if we leave the room. Or actually even if we trot off to the shops for an hour. He's quite secure and at ease. Happy out on the couch.

And even in the garden there's no obvious signs of anxiety, reading the body language. I honestly think it's part territorial (barking in response to distant dogs) and partly boredom (cos plenty of times I can't hear any other dogs).

And actually I wouldn't mind a bit of barking - I honestly wouldn't. Dogs bark - that's what I signed up for.

But it's immediate and constant. And giving me a migraine on a daily basis.

I think from what you guys have said that it's just a matter of letting her stay in. Wierd for me, but hey......

ppink

any of my dogs would be the same, either bark or would not move from the back door if I put them out alone. I suppose that is why I have so many of them:D, they have no bother going out all together. I would say they actually prefer to be out rather than in but not alone......a pack thing?? I dont know, i just figure it is boring for them alone out there

illicit007

I trained my dog the words 'speak' and 'shush' and the dog knowing that I can command him when to bark, and when to be quiet, really helps. He's a Doberman and they dislike cold weather, so once he's outside for any length of time he gets cold & barks to be let in. I think he should stay out a bit longer, for the exercise or whatever reason, so I just tell him 'shush' and that tends to keep him quiet for a while longer. If he barked consistently my first choice would be the static discharge collar because I too don't really believe in the citronella collars. However in the case of a previously abused or extremely timid dog, then I'd opt for training AND an ultra-sonic device to aid in conjunction with the training.

dvet

trio wrote: »

With regards to the shock ones...not in this dogs case, being a very timid rescue dog who was mistreated. He's very nervous and it would set him back a lot in all the progress we've made with his confidence.

....

There's not a bother on him in the house if we leave the room. Or actually even if we trot off to the shops for an hour. He's quite secure and at ease. Happy out on the couch.

And even in the garden there's no obvious signs of anxiety, reading the body language. I honestly think it's part territorial (barking in response to distant dogs) and partly boredom (cos plenty of times I can't hear any other dogs).

...
I think from what you guys have said that it's just a matter of letting her stay in. Wierd for me, but hey......

Yup well in your case I would definitely avoid the shock collar - it can really scare the bejasus out of nervous dogs and make them ten times worse.

The usual advice for barking dogs is; increase their excercise, give them loads of rawhide chews/food based toys; address any seperation anxiety issues; bring them inside; and if all of that doesn't work, then anti bark collars.
But that usually goes for situations where you have no choice but to leave them outside for a while.

You said you already give her loads of exercise and toys and it hasn't done anything; and especially if it's the neighbour's dogs she's barking at, there doesn't seem to be a lot else you can do than bring her in tbh!

I don't think it would do her any harm at all anyway, if it's what she prefers.

SNORBEAST

Buy a cat????????

McGarnagle92

trio wrote: »

Oh yeah sure....why not trot out and entertain the dog whenever he's outside as well as entertain him inside all day long and bring him for 2 walks a day - Sure let's go for the whole Umbilical Cord experience!!!

I didn't say all your time out there with him. It worked with my dog anyway. I would be doing the gardening occasionally or whatever and I'd make sure he was out there and eventually he got used to being in the garden. I know it's not summer and very cold out now. But it was just a suggestion, instead of the collars, no need to be sarcastic.

ISDW

Would it be feasible to fit a dog flap, so that she can go in and out when she needs? Maybe if she feels that she can come back in on her own, she wouldn't feel the need to bark outside?

Graces7

trio wrote: »

Hi All,

This is not a very important problem in the great scheme of things, but it's been kinda bugging me.

We have a JRT for a few months now. About 2 years old (we don't know for sure - rescue dog). Anyway he is the most indoor of all indoor dogs, possibly because of his background. Just wants to be inside the whole time and doesn't seem to know what to do with himself outside.

So when we do put him outside.....he barks. And barks and barks. Sometimes it's triggered by a neighbourhood dog, but often times it's just for something for him to do. It's like my brain is being drilled by Woody Woodpecker!

I understand that dogs are bored outside. So I give him a tricky Kong. And don't intend to keep him out that long. Maybe half an hour, maybe even less. But after just FIVE MINUTES!!! the barking starts. He can't possibly be finished his Kong in that time! It takes him ages inside!

We have tried everything. We rap on the window without him seeing us. We shout from inside the house. We make commotions with saucepans. Anything to break his concentration. And he stops, perplexed at this new noise, for about five minutes. Then he forgets all about the noise and starts again!

And it's also stressful for me basically having to be "on guard", alert, ever ready to spring up and make some noise to distract him without him seeing me. Ridiculous!

And our garden is pretty interesting actually. But he doesn't even dig! It's not that he doesn't know how - he's definately buried some bones. But only the odd time.

Anyway it's kinda wrecking my head. At this rate we'll be keeping him in 24/7, other than his walks (2 a day, so it's not lack of exercise!).

What does everyone else do in this situation? Do you just not put your dogs out at all? Surely there must be other owners whose dogs are big barkers?

Why would you want the dog to be out when you are there? OF COURSE he barks; dogs are people oriented and this is nothing to do with bordeom. They rarely play alone like that.

Poor wee dog! Let him in; and like the poster who suggested a cat, wondering why you got a wee dog?

Ours are in when we are in and out when we are with them there; no barking issues. Because they are content. They are where they need to be and happy.

Listen to your dog.. let me in let me in let me in; wanna be with YOU!

Putting a dog out? WHY?

As you rightly say . ridiculous! :rolleyes: It is so very simple.

ISDW

Graces7 wrote: »

Why would you want the dog to be out when you are there? OF COURSE he barks; dogs are people oriented and this is nothing to do with bordeom. They rarely play alone like that.

Poor wee dog! Let him in; and like the poster who suggested a cat, wondering why you got a wee dog?

Ours are in when we are in and out when we are with them there; no barking issues. Because they are content. They are where they need to be and happy.

Listen to your dog.. let me in let me in let me in; wanna be with YOU!

Putting a dog out? WHY?

As you rightly say . ridiculous! :rolleyes: It is so very simple.

I think that you need to re-read what the OP has posted. They put the dog out for a while into the garden, they don't chuck it out there and leave it out there. The dog has to go to the toilet, obviously better to do it in the garden than in the house.

What about maybe when the OP wants to wash the floor? I've always found it much easier to put the dogs out when doing that. No, I also don't chuck them outside and leave them out there for hours on end, but yes, I can totally understand why the OP would want to put their dog out in the garden for a short while. With Kongs, treats etc, what exactly is wrong with that? When I was younger and we had a single dog in the family, they would go out to the garden and play quite happily by themselves, throwing toys up in the air, chasing around. One dog, Scamp used to have what we would call his mad half hour every day, around 5pm out in the garden. He was taken to work by my Dad every day, and when I came home from school and went out, Scamp would come with me, so he certainly wasn't bored or under-exercised.

This dog seems to be very well treated and obviously much loved, so I really don't think there is any need to suggest they shouldn't have a dog. That is ridiculous:rolleyes:

dvet

Graces7 wrote: »

Why would you want the dog to be out when you are there? OF COURSE he barks; dogs are people oriented and this is nothing to do with bordeom. They rarely play alone like that.

Poor wee dog! Let him in; and like the poster who suggested a cat, wondering why you got a wee dog?

Ours are in when we are in and out when we are with them there; no barking issues. Because they are content. They are where they need to be and happy.

Listen to your dog.. let me in let me in let me in; wanna be with YOU!

Putting a dog out? WHY?

As you rightly say . ridiculous! :rolleyes: It is so very simple.

Sorry but I think this is a little unfair, and sounds a little condescending: 'poor wee doggy'; and 'why did you get a dog?'.

The OP is not trying to keep him outside all day and all night, or to ignore him - as she said herself, she just feels bad keeping him in 24/7, probably because any dogs she's had before liked getting time in the garden (like plenty of active dogs do).

She rescued a dog, he lives inside with her, gets walked twice a day, has loads of toys and attention, and she lets him out for half an hour in the evenings, presumably with the intention of letting him play/sniff around/do his wees etc. I don't think that makes her an unsuitable owner... I think that makes her a more responsible, owner than most!

Graces7 wrote: »

Why would you want the dog to be out when you are there? OF COURSE he barks; dogs are people oriented and this is nothing to do with bordeom. They rarely play alone like that.

Also, if your dog cannot be alone for even 5 minutes without getting distressed about it, that's separation anxiety. If that was his problem, she'd be totally right to get advice about it.

Plenty of dogs are independent enough to go outside by themselves, but may start barking for other reasons e.g. boredom/territorial aggression/nervousness. And obviously for some, it is separation anxiety. So like with all problems, the real cause needs to be found before the issue can be addressed.

And as a few of us already said, the best answer for her dog is probably to let him in when he wants, as long as he's still getting his walks, and that she shouldn't feel bad about it. Dogs are very individual and some dogs prefer being inside.

I don't think 'get a cat' is the answer.

Graces7

re the last two posts.... From the lengths the OP is going to to keep the dog outside and "entertained" clearly this dog is not happy being outside without them.

Dogs are individuals as you say and this wee one has clearly shown that being alone outside ( and it comes across as far more than being let out to toilet does it not?) is not suited to this dog.

Hence the barking of course.

Whts comes across as ridiculous ( and it is the OP who used that word, by the way is the antics and er..... techniques they are using when most folk would simply say OK: come in if you are so unhappy out there.

Our dogs do not get agitated in that way; we prefer that they are within sight as a safety measure. We are in farming country and wee dog here is an escape artist. I am working here upstairs; dogs are downstairs fast asleep. Out of sight but safe and happy.

No way would they be out unless we would keep an eye on them.

Jumpy

trio wrote: »

Re: barking collars - my friend got a citronella collar for her dog. He figured out how to bark like a maniac for 10 minutes straight and he'd use it all up! And then he could bark away without any bother all day long!

I am laughing so hard right now.

They can be right little feckers sometimes, but its stories like these that make me love dogs.

dvet

Graces7 wrote: »

re the last two posts.... From the lengths the OP is going to to keep the dog outside and "entertained" clearly this dog is not happy being outside without them....

Dogs are individuals as you say and this wee one has clearly shown that being alone outside is not suited to this dog.

This is exactly what we're saying. I think what you're not getting is that the OP wanted to let her dog out because she would feel bad for him being 'cooped up' inside all day otherwise. (and some dogs would hate that, so it's understandable.) Not because she wanted him out of her hair.

And what we've been telling her is that some dogs prefer to be in, so there's no need for her to feel guilty about it.

Graces7 wrote: »

( and it comes across as far more than being let out to toilet does it not?)

I'm not trying to get personal here, but No, it doesn't. That's exactly what ISDW and I were trying to point out. If it sounded like she wanted to chuck the dog out and ignore it, it would be a different matter entirely.

Whispered

SNORBEAST wrote: »

Buy a cat????????

Rescue a cat :pac:

OP, my dog is in all the time. He doesn't bark but he does sit at the door crying to get in with a really annoying low whistle.:rolleyes:

We will put him out for the toilet etc, he will run around for 2 mins then come back to the door, give one bark the let us know he is there, then whine quietly until we open the door.

If your dog does prefer to be indoors, he wont feel cooped up so don't worry about that. Although I totally understand you not wanting to let him in when he barks as tht was a concern for me when we got our dog.

You say he stops barking when you clang saucepans. Well the next time he barks outside and you want to bring him in, clang your saucepans, as soon as he is quiet, immediately on him stopping, bring him in. He should associate being quiet with coming in.

How does he ask to go out for the toilet? Our boy whines at the door (the whine is to get our attention, it's not like I leave him there crying to get out!). So he whines to get back in. I suppose he sees whine = door opening. Perhaps you can teach your dog to "knock" the door, if you have no problem with his paws on your door. Teach him to jump up on the door once (once!) and he gets a treat and the door opens. You can phase out the treat. Actually - you can even get a pet doorbell http://www.pet2ring.com/ (what a great idea!)

Once the dog realises he can ask to come in politely and you will let him in, he might even enjoy spending time in the garden as he wont feel so locked out.

cosmic

I've always had indoor JRTs and they've all been rescued. I think as other posters have said, your little guy suffers from a little bit of separation anxiety, as all of ours did initially.

I know it's freezing out at the moment so this doesn't sound ideal but try leaving the door open and try to keep in his sight at all times so that he knows you're not leaving him out there alone. You said you try not to let him see you when he's outside but it will calm him a lot if he knows you're around. If he tries to come back in throw a toy out for him to run for or stand in the doorway, blocking his path, and chat to him.

I know you said you don't want to give up all your time to him but this will only be short term until he gets used to being outside. The more he's outside the more he'll start exploring the garden and making his own fun.

We still leave the door open for our current little guy after 8 years. Not all the way open, just on the latch so that when he's ready to come in he can push it with his nose and come in. Sometimes he only goes out for a few minutes at a time and others he's out on his own for ages chasing the birds and finding new smells. If we forget to leave the door on the latch and actually lock him out by accident he barks to let us know! Maybe your little guy is doing the same!

Give it a try sure and see how he gets on. Enjoy getting to know your new family member!

trio

Wow I never expected such a small thing to get such a response! And thanks to all who realised I'm not just trying to "get the dog out of my hair":rolleyes:

Actually peeing is a problem. Because he won't tell me when he wants to go. No circling, no restlessness.....I don't know where he was before or how brutally he was house trained, but he'll hold it and hold it and hold it.....he would probably hold it for 24 hours straight if indoors. I think it's incredibly dangerous.

So getting him to spend a penny outside is a daily headache. He would literally hold it in constantly inside and make no murmur.

It's not as if I care about accidents. It's a tiled kitchen - big deal!

So we go outside with the intention of him following us to wee. But he hasn't a notion. He's sitting there happy out beside the fire. So we call him out. He trots out, gives us one "not on your nelly" look and then trots inside again. Even though we KNOW he hasn't peed all afternoon and he's going to be inside all night, holding it in.

So then it gets to the ridiculous extreme of us enticing the dog out every hour, and holding the kitchen door shut so he can't go back in, and us shivering in the snow whilst the dog eventually cops that since it can't go back in, it may as well pee!

If it weren't for our two walks he wouldn't poo at all (he tends to poo on walks). But then if he comes back from his evening walk without pooing, we get anxious about it.

So the main reason I put him outside for a while is so he'll damn well PEE! But then he's barking like a lunatic.

Jaysus, reading it back it's nuts isn't it? We're exhausting ourselves.

Possibly I'll have to think seriously about a door flap. We have talked about it, but my OH said "But sure he wouldn't use it anyway - he'll hold it in rather than go outside". And that's possibly true and it'll turn into a useless purchase. But I think we may have to take the chance and try our hardest to get him to realise it doesn't lock behind him and he's not risking being shut out by using it.

Cherry Blossom

OP it sounds like he just isn't used to being outside, if you feel strongly enough about it there are a few things I would do but I would definately wait untill the cold weather is well and truely gone for best results.

You want to make outside as good an experience as possible for him so I would spend a lot of time out there with him playing fetch and so on. As for leaving him out on his own, firstly I would feed him his meals outside and gradually increase the time he is out after he has finished (or increase the time out before he gets his food, whichever seems to work better). When it's at the stage where he will happily stay out 15 or 20 minutes after/before his food I would buy a kids sandpit and bury some tasty treats in it for him to dig up. (I wouldn't invest in this before he's comfortable being out for a short time or it could end up a waste of money!) Also if he has a favourite toy keep it for outdoor use only. All of this should help him associate being outside with pleasant things.

ISDW

If you get a dog flap, leave it wedged open at first, so that he realises he can go in and out without hindrance. I have pushed dogs and cats through flaps before, so that they realise they can open it themselves - gently of course:D

Best of luck, sounds like he had a really tough time of it before he came to you.

Whispered

Back to basics with the toilet training then I'm afraid!

When you know he hasn't gone in a while, put him on the lead and bring him out, he'll know you mean business then because you're not coaxing. Be gentle and kind of course, but no conversation. (be well wrapped up, this could take a while :pac:) Outside with the door shut, unclip the lead. Decide on a command like "go toilet" or something. Say it once. Then completly ignore him, watching out of the corner of your eye. At this point you will just have to wait him out. As soon as he goes, use your command again and make a HUGE deal out of what a good boy he is. Then bring him in. Hopefully he'll catch on that outside = wee = come in.

Don't hover at the door while you're waiting for him to go in case he thinks you're going to try sneak in, or he sees your reluctance to leave the door as anxiety. Walk out into the garden.

I'd try that rather than a flap for 2 reasons, like you said, he may not use it and it will be a waste, the other reason is I personally prefer to control my dogs access to outdoors. If he had an accident say, and wasn't to be outside without supervision, he could get anxious if he had been using the flap and now you've to close it. Or if he is a barker, you don't want him to have unrestricted access to outside (and your nighbours ears!). That's just a personal thing though you might think the benefits outweigh that.

littlebug

My dog (had her a month) gets really wound up and anxious outside even with people out with her. She is also an excape artist so outside by herself isn't an option just now either. I was taking her out on lead every so often to wee but she won't until we're well into our big walks. Somedays there could be 12 hours between big walks and she can still hold it until we've walked half a mile
I do like to think she'll eventually be happy in the garden even if it's just when I'm out gardening or the kids out playing.. but accept that'll it'll take a while.