DEAD!

Daisy!

Ghost

I don't know what happens but I hope there's a heaven.

scientific1982

Do you really need to ask.

IamtheWalrus

xoxyx wrote: »

Why not?

They can theoretically coexist because there are believers in religion and there are 'believers' in science but in reality they are polar opposites. Science strives to prove things based on logic and testable evidence. Religion says you don't need evidence, just, well.... believe. Without sounding too dramatic, religion is the anti-science.

Helix

Common as... wrote: »

I agree that your current personality isin't gonna transcend this world but I reckon this is the mistake that people make. Your perception (as mine) of the world is very limited
Are you saying that if your not aware of your own personility then you dont exist.
What has your level of awareness got to do with what happens when a living thing dies?

youre completely missing the point here

if youre not aware of something existing, and your perception is the only thing you can ever know, then as far as you are concerned that thing doesnt exist. im not saying that it doesnt ACTUALLY exist because you dont know it does, but that in your existance it doesnt, and since thats the only thing youll ever, EVER be capable of knowing, its essentially the same thing for you as the thing not existing to begin with

Helix

xoxyx wrote: »

Therefore, we will get our satisfaction by interacting with those that are perfect for us; those who we enjoy being with and that enjoy being with us. If we're unfortunate enough to have a child or a brother or whatever who doesn't like us: firstly, they'll get over their dislike; and, secondly, we'll be so happy that they're fulfilling their desire by hanging out with their preferred people.

so, youre saying that we'll spend our time with people we like and are perfect for us, but also people we dont like and who arent perfect for us, because we'll like them and theyll be perfect for us anyway?

Helix

xoxyx wrote: »

I believe there's somethihg and that there's more to our lives than the short few decades that we get living here.

why? whats so special about us, as opposed to the other animals?

xoxyx

Ghost

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

They can theoretically coexist because there are believers in religion and there are 'believers' in science but in reality they are polar opposites. Science strives to prove things based on logic and testable evidence. Religion says you don't need evidence, just, well.... believe. Without sounding too dramatic, religion is the anti-science.

Well let's not be dramatic then. Religion does not say that you don't need evidence. There's plenty of religion that makes good common sense. The issue of discussion in this thread is the afterlife which, by necessity, requires leaps of faith.

It's wrong to say that religion in general and science in general are polar opposites.

xoxyx

Ghost

Helix wrote: »

so, youre saying that we'll spend our time with people we like and are perfect for us, but also people we dont like and who arent perfect for us, because we'll like them and theyll be perfect for us anyway?

I'm saying that heaven will be heavenly. I don't know about you, but I know people that I would like to spend unlimited time with. I just love their company and our chats are epic. To me, this is a small slice of heaven.

This is a silly point though. I doubt we'll be spending our afterlife by the water cooler gossiping about what Mary said the other day about Peter.

xoxyx

Ghost

Helix wrote: »

why? whats so special about us, as opposed to the other animals?

Well if you don't know what is so special about you, as opposed to other animals, then I have pity for you.

scientific1982

xoxyx wrote: »

Well let's not be dramatic then. Religion does not say that you don't need evidence. There's plenty of religion that makes good common sense. The issue of discussion in this thread is the afterlife which, by necessity, requires leaps of faith.

It's wrong to say that religion in general and science in general are polar opposites.

Religion does not say that you don't need evidence.

Em, yes it does. Faith is the whole basis of religion.

There's plenty of religion that makes good common sense.

Theres more that makes absolutely no sense at all. All the stuff that does make sense, people have know about already or its has been detailed more articulately in philosophy.

Carl Sagan

I don't think anything happens, but I really hope something does.

rossie1977

xoxyx wrote: »

Well if you don't know what is so special about you, as opposed to other animals, then I have pity for you.

we as humans have always had a hugely inflated opinion of ourselves, we once believed this little ball of rock was at the centre of our vast universe, we once believed that the sun circled our little planet not the other way round

the truth is we are totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things in our own milky way galaxy let alone the entire universe, we (and when i say we i mean the entire planet) is but a grain of sand in the vastness that is the sahara desert of the universe

IamtheWalrus

xoxyx wrote: »

Well if you don't know what is so special about you, as opposed to other animals, then I have pity for you.

I have done a bit of reading around evolution by natural selection so I firmly believe I am not one jot more special than any other animal. I believe I'm fortunate because we have a higher consiousness and are very powerful but that came as a product of evolution. You said earlier that you believe in evolution, so how can you then say we are 'special' compared to other animals.

I suspect we are heading slightly off the original point..

poppyvalley

Pace2008 wrote: »

Not sure, but I reckon it's oblivion. Anyone with similar beliefs can take solace in the fact that we were dead for 13 billion years we were born, and it didn't inconvenience us in the slightest.

Agree...we will just cease to exist, I have no problem with that.

MagicMarker

xoxyx wrote: »

I never said that we are living proof that a God exists. I just said that the fact of our existence is guaranteed proof that something has happened to create us which is outside our comprehension.

Outside our comprehension for now.

That's no reason to believe a supreme being was behind it all. Throughout human history people have said ''god did it'' when in reality they just didn't know the real answer. Which is exactly what you're doing right now.

Muff_Daddy

vibe666 wrote: »

but there really is nothing at all to be afraid of about dying.

think of it this way. for the whole of human history, actually the whole of the history of the universe & beyond, right up to the point of your conception you didn't exist in the universe at all. all you are doing is returning to that state.

But see, here's the thing, I don't exactly want to return to that state now that I've experienced life, and therein lies my 'fear' of death so to speak, knowing that I'll never be able to do the things I love, see the people I love, or experience anything, forever! As far as I'm concerned eternity of something is more preferable to an eternity of nothingness, and I know I'd be oblivious to it after I've passed, but it's the knowing that I'll either be ashes or in a box six feet under or something else for the rest of time after I die, in my conscious thoughts, that fills me with terror at times. I've been told I'll eventually accept it, and I suppose I have been coming round to the fact that I'll be no more, I don't let it affect me in my day to day life as much as I used to. I'm also fully aware that fearing death is utterly futile, but the chilling thought of death does pop in my head from time to time.

I really don't get how people can say there is nothing to fear from death, it is the ultimate end. All the Mark Twain quotes in the world won't make me change my mind from that.

MultiUmm

xoxyx wrote: »

Well I, for one, am going to heaven. All my loved ones are going to be there too and we'll exist in a stage of joy all the time.

Eh .. not to insult your beliefs or anything, but wouldn't that get really, really boring after a while? A constant state of joy sounds nice in theory, but wouldn't it get tiring? Seeing the same people for eternity and feeling the exact same way forever? I'd be sick of it after a year or two at most.

Sorry if you gave an explanation for anything I stated already, I'm still reading through the thread.

Coriolanus

I'd like to be wrong but I think there'll be nothing. If I was allowed a choice it would be for some kind of reincarnation.

syngindub

Nothing

if something did happen after death but it didn't really turn out as you expected, it would be a bit ****. Hope there are a few alternatives

Helix

xoxyx wrote: »

I'm saying that heaven will be heavenly. I don't know about you, but I know people that I would like to spend unlimited time with. I just love their company and our chats are epic.

again, youre missing the point. what if theres someone who wants to spend unlimited time with you, but you dont want to spend unlimited time with them? you cant both get what you want, yet heaven is supposed to be perfect in every way for everyone?

stevejr

Larkin91 wrote: »

I voted ghost.

Oooooh, spooky.

Ah stop Larkin about! This is serious **** here!!:D

dominiquecruz

Ghost

I believe in an afterlife. Not because I want or need to believe, just because I genuinely think there is a beyond. Mind you, I'd imagine its nothing like this life we have down here.

iPlop

Ghost

dominiquecruz wrote: »

I believe in an afterlife. Not because I want or need to believe, just because I genuinely think there is a beyond. Mind you, I'd imagine its nothing like this life we have down here.

+1 and Im genuinely shocked at the amount of posters that think theres nothing after wards ,each to there own but I didn't think that many people were non believers.

robinph

Sink The Banana wrote: »

+1 and Im genuinely shocked at the amount of posters that think theres nothing after wards ,each to there own but I didn't think that many people were non believers.

...and we are genuinely shocked that people still believe in faries.

iPlop

Ghost

robinph wrote: »

...and we are genuinely shocked that people still believe in faries.

Faries? I don't believe in faries..

-Trek-

If there is an after life I don't think it is what is being preached to us in the bible. Couldn't imagine an utopia, would lose my mind in no time.

ScumLord

dominiquecruz wrote: »

I believe in an afterlife. Not because I want or need to believe, just because I genuinely think there is a beyond. Mind you, I'd imagine its nothing like this life we have down here.

That sounds like you need to believe. There's no real evidence of an afterlife outside of religion and hearsay so your choosing to believe it.

Helix

Sink The Banana wrote: »

+1 and Im genuinely shocked at the amount of posters that think theres nothing after wards ,each to there own but I didn't think that many people were non believers.

conversely, it amazes me that seemingly intelligent people believe that theyll go to a magical happy place with all their dead relatives when they die

Columbia

I voted for nothing, but I do wonder. I didn't exist at one time, and yet I was born. I won't exist in another 70 years, is it possible to be born again?

All depends on what you think consciousness is, I suppose. Right now I think it's tied to my own biological brain, which will never be recreated.

robinph

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Faries? I don't believe in faries..

Faries, big beardy bloke in the sky, people with wings playing harps, easter bunny.

All the same thing really.

iPlop

Ghost

robinph wrote: »

Faries, big beardy bloke in the sky, people with wings playing harps, easter bunny.

All the same thing really.

I see where your coming from ,all of it in the same category.I do believe it's there.When my Nan died she opened her eyes really wide ,smiled and called out my granddads name whilst stretching her arm out ,as if she was to be takin by the hand.This has stuck in my memory for the last 14 years and it has me convinced that the after life is real.

Some people would say it's a chemical reaction in the brain when your dying ,I believe other wise.It really looked like she was being "taken" as she died immediately after she stretched her arm out

Krusader

What if this is heaven, right now...

-Trek-

Crosáidí wrote: »

What if this is heaven, right now...

Then I'd hate to see what hell is like

MagicMarker

Sink The Banana wrote: »

I see where your coming from ,all of it in the same category.I do believe it's there.When my Nan died she opened her eyes really wide ,smiled and called out my granddads name whilst stretching her arm out ,as if she was to be takin by the hand.This has stuck in my memory for the last 14 years and it has me convinced that the after life is real.

Some people would say it's a chemical reaction in the brain when your dying ,I believe other wise.It really looked like she was being "taken" as she died immediately after she stretched her arm out

Erm, people experience hallucinations all the time and always have. Do you also believe this is not due to reactions in the brain?

dominiquecruz

Ghost

ScumLord wrote: »

That sounds like you need to believe. There's no real evidence of an afterlife outside of religion and hearsay so your choosing to believe it.

This is faith. I don't need evidence. Science can only explain the physical, material universe we are currently living in; it means nothing outside of it. I have no idea what comes after death, and I won't know until I'm dead, but the intricacies of our existence suggest to me that life isnt purely some kind of cosmic accident.

ScumLord

Sink The Banana wrote: »

I see where your coming from ,all of it in the same category.I do believe it's there.When my Nan died she opened her eyes really wide ,smiled and called out my granddads name whilst stretching her arm out ,as if she was to be takin by the hand.This has stuck in my memory for the last 14 years and it has me convinced that the after life is real.

You where witnessing what was going on inside her head. Her mind could create a lifetime inside that small amount of time. Our brain does have a certain amount of disregard for the actual pace of time, it's always something that's relative.
It's quite possible she did experience a long passage of time inside her head and had no concept of the fact she was dying instead living an afterlife that fulfilled all her dreams.

iPlop

Ghost

MagicMarker wrote: »

Erm, people experience hallucinations all the time and always have. Do you also believe this is not due to reactions in the brain?

Of course it is ,but seeing that has a bit of an impact.If I hadn't seen her do that I probably would have voted for "nothing".As I have no other logical reason to believe.

Helix

Sink The Banana wrote: »

I see where your coming from ,all of it in the same category.I do believe it's there.When my Nan died she opened her eyes really wide ,smiled and called out my granddads name whilst stretching her arm out ,as if she was to be takin by the hand.This has stuck in my memory for the last 14 years and it has me convinced that the after life is real.

Some people would say it's a chemical reaction in the brain when your dying ,I believe other wise.It really looked like she was being "taken" as she died immediately after she stretched her arm out

see, you believe that because its a nice thought, but youre not being remotely realistic about it

for everyone who believes in an afterlife, i reckon 90% of them know inside that they're only codding themselves, trying to convince themselves its real. i just cant understand how people in this day and age can honestly think that they live after they die.

do animals too?

what about plants?

and bacteria?

or do we get into the "humans are different" thing?

when did humans become different? at what stage of their evolution? and did the afterlife not exist before that, or was it a case that it was there but completely empty for an eternity until humans evolved enough to be allowed in? what happens if we evolve even more, will we be refused entry then?

Helix

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Of course it is ,but seeing that has a bit of an impact.If I hadn't seen her do that I probably would have voted for "nothing".As I have no other logical reason to believe.

sorry if this sounds harsh, but you have no logical reason full stop - including the reason you're giving

hsi

Ghost

dominiquecruz wrote: »

I believe in an afterlife. Not because I want or need to believe, just because I genuinely think there is a beyond. Mind you, I'd imagine its nothing like this life we have down here.

Does it really matter what other people believe, Death is a reality that every person must face. Life ends. I believe there is something more to reality, but thats a personal belief, others reason that when we die its over. Full stop.

There are thousands of accounts of heaven, its there for whoever wants to read it.

iPlop

Ghost

ScumLord wrote: »

You where witnessing what was going on inside her head. Her mind could create a lifetime inside that small amount of time. Our brain does have a certain amount of disregard for the actual pace of time, it's always something that's relative.
It's quite possible she did experience a long passage of time inside her head and had no concept of the fact she was dying instead living an afterlife that fulfilled all her dreams.

That's true ,It could have been that or my Granddad came to take her to Heavan ,and theres no way of knowing until it's your turn

iPlop

Ghost

Helix wrote: »

sorry if this sounds harsh, but you have no logical reason full stop - including the reason you're giving

Yes I know ,but I do believe it's there ,logical or not.

dominiquecruz

Ghost

hsi wrote: »

Does it really matter what other people believe, Death is a reality that every person must face. Life ends. I believe there is something more to reality, but thats a personal belief, others reason that when we die its over. Full stop.

There are thousands of accounts of heaven, its there for however wants to read it.

I know. It doesnt bother me in the slightest what others believe, and the arguments are ultimately futile, but its still interesting to talk about.

MagicMarker

Sink The Banana wrote: »

That's true ,It could have been that or my Granddad came to take her to Heavan ,and theres no way of knowing until it's your turn

I hallucinated this morning, I saw a scorpion in my shoe playing a mini keyboard.

Of course, I could have a fever, or maybe a scorpion really was in my shoe playing the keyboard! Who knows!!!? :eek:

Helix

hsi wrote: »

There are thousands of accounts of heaven, its there for whoever wants to read it.

from the thousands of people who died and came back to tell people about heaven?

hsi

Ghost

Interesting that 25 moderatores believe there is nothing after death. Goes do show the demographic of who moderates boards.ie.

hsi

Ghost

Helix wrote: »

from the thousands of people who died and came back to tell people about heaven?

If they did then would we have faith?

Helix

hsi wrote: »

If they did then would we have faith?

you said there were thousands accounts of heaven

unless the people giving them were there, theyre not accounts of heaven, theyre speculation of heaven

massive massive massive difference

Helix

hsi wrote: »

Interesting that 25 moderatores believe there is nothing after death. Goes do show the demographic of who moderates boards.ie.

sane, stable, rationally thinking people?

MagicMarker

hsi wrote: »

Interesting that 25 moderatores believe there is nothing after death. Goes do show the demographic of who moderates boards.ie.

Look at the poll again, goes to show the demographic of boards in general.