thermostat heater in attic v infrared light?

paddles

Sorry not sure where this fits.

I'm considering buying one of those heaters to put inthe attic that has a thermostat and might help with preventing frozen pipes etc. Previuosly I used one of those large infra-red bulbs over my watertank. Thing is it was quite hard on ESB and I rem a much larger ESB bill after Xmas than usual when I used it.

I'm guessing those heaters are hard on ESB also - which is the better value/ least expensive option would anyone know?

Buford T Justice

If you wanted to do a comparison between the heater and the bulb, then we'll say that both of them are on a frost stat. That being the case then they in theory would be turned on and off at the same time, so it would just be a case of which appliance has a bigger wattage to know which would consume more electricity.

If you already have a bulb then it might be cheaper to just fit a frost stat to it.

indie armada

fit a frost stat to the bulb and wire in some visual indication so you know when its in use.

suitseir

paddles wrote: »

Sorry not sure where this fits.

I'm considering buying one of those heaters to put inthe attic that has a thermostat and might help with preventing frozen pipes etc. Previuosly I used one of those large infra-red bulbs over my watertank. Thing is it was quite hard on ESB and I rem a much larger ESB bill after Xmas than usual when I used it.

I'm guessing those heaters are hard on ESB also - which is the better value/ least expensive option would anyone know?

I spoke to a guy yesterday who said the infra red are pretty effective. He said it was the first time in 30 years he has had problems with water getting into his property because of the freezing conditions. He is also a farmer and has no water for his herd! How said is that!

I just left the attic door open with the light on in the attic and heat is getting up there, at least and that is probably the safest.

youtheman

For me the most important factor is the amount of heat that is going to be wasted heating the complete attic space. When I get a chance I'm going to create an insulated box around my attic tank and pipes, so that my frost heater will only have to heat the minimum volume required. This, I think, is the most effective way of preventing the system from freezing. If I do that then it really doesn't matter whethere I use a fan heater or IR lamp.

DublinDilbert

Why not just use an electric underfloor heating mat?

Depending on the one you get you should be able to use some of the element to warm the pipes too...

Directly applying heat would be very efficient and can work with existing lagging / insulation...

mike65

youtheman wrote: »

For me the most important factor is the amount of heat that is going to be wasted heating the complete attic space. When I get a chance I'm going to create an insulated box around my attic tank and pipes, so that my frost heater will only have to heat the minimum volume required. This, I think, is the most effective way of preventing the system from freezing. If I do that then it really doesn't matter whethere I use a fan heater or IR lamp.

+1 to this I was pondering the same thing, the attic is huge but the area covered by the pipes and tanks is probably 2 meters x 1 meter x 1.5 meteres

M cebee

i've a bit to do myself now -after the frost

i'd guess the radiant infra-red heat is the best option with the stat some distance away

hard to see how these convection heaters could be effective in a cold attic -without siting them in a dangerous location like under a tank

indie armada

if you have an attic conversion like i do then the space that needs to be heated is relativly small, but in a conventional attic the pipes should be well lagged and the heater/bulb concentrated near the tank.
an old electric blacket wrapped around the tank or underneath it would be a cheaper option to the heat mat, plus a lot of the heat mats have complicated stats/controls that might not work in that instance but im open to correction on that

cast_iron

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Why not just use an electric underfloor heating mat?

Depending on the one you get you should be able to use some of the element to warm the pipes too...

Directly applying heat would be very efficient and can work with existing lagging / insulation...

Run on a frost stat, that would probably the most efficient, though with a high initial cost. Best option, because you don't want to be heading up there every day or two to plug it in and out as frost comes and goes.

The cheaper initial cost, but more expensive to run option would be the infra-red, with either a frost stat or a visual indicator -as suggested above.

And ensure there's no insulation under the tank so heat can rise from the room below and keep it warmer than the ambient attic temp.

M cebee

indie armada wrote: »

if you have an attic conversion like i do then the space that needs to be heated is relativly small, but in a conventional attic the pipes should be well lagged and the heater/bulb concentrated near the tank.
an old electric blacket wrapped around the tank or underneath it would be a cheaper option to the heat mat, plus a lot of the heat mats have complicated stats/controls that might not work in that instance but im open to correction on that

i don't like the electric blanket idea

WildOscar

M cebee wrote: »

i don't like the electric blanket idea

why not would you think it unsafe? i imagine you would have to remove all the insulation underneath it?

M cebee

i'm assuming it could be a hazard if water got into it

anyhow i've to get back to my plumbing:)-4 burst pipes so far today -more to come

danjo

youtheman wrote: »

For me the most important factor is the amount of heat that is going to be wasted heating the complete attic space. When I get a chance I'm going to create an insulated box around my attic tank and pipes, so that my frost heater will only have to heat the minimum volume required. This, I think, is the most effective way of preventing the system from freezing. If I do that then it really doesn't matter whethere I use a fan heater or IR lamp.

I would feel more comfortable heating the whole space as you are protecting the pipes as well.
I use a frost stat in the attic to turn on the
central heating when temp drops to 2 degrees. Worked great recently when the house was unoccupied.

Bruthal

Maybe an extra rad in the attic would do the job. I just left attic door open all the way anyway, after the mains into attic tank froze, and that did the job.

Stoner

i have a rad in the attic set to frost and have had no issues. Obviously this is no good when the heating is off. The IR lamp would be one of the safest options, the heat mat and the electric blanket options could place an electrical item below the tank or possibly to dip into the tank, either way there is more danger of a water/electricity mix, at least with the lamp you can wire it from above, once again IMHO only.

I'd have some worries about a fan heater going off on its own in the attic too.

Leaving the door open is a huge waste of heat, against burst pipes it's a cost saving, but it's not automated or a plan.

I have insulated around my tank, and have not insulated under it. All the copper valves etc are under the insulation too.

WildOscar

Stoner wrote: »

i have a rad in the attic set to frost and have had no issues. Obviously this is no good when the heating is off. The IR lamp would be one of the safest options, the heat mat and the electric blanket options could place an electrical item below the tank or possibly to dip into the tank, either way there is more danger of a water/electricity mix, at least with the lamp you can wire it from above, once again IMHO only.

I'd have some worries about a fan heater going off on its own in the attic too.

Leaving the door open is a huge waste of heat, against burst pipes it's a cost saving, but it's not automated or a plan.

I have insulated around my tank, and have not insulated under it. All the copper valves etc are under the insulation too.

in my house the attic is insulated under the tank and if it gets really cold again i will remove it temporarily. the tank is insulated with that white aeroboard, i think its called, all round and on top. I tend to agree with you on electric mats under tank - electricity and water, if any leaked, not a good mix.

Fan heater not under the tank but aimed at the space underneath it might be ok but agree with you when you say

I'd have some worries about a fan heater going off on its own in the attic too.

I would be worried about the heater getting hot underneath and in contact with insulation so i thought of nailing a board across two joists to put it on and aim it at tank. it is 3.30 am so cannot do any more today;)

Bruthal

Stoner wrote: »

i have a rad in the attic set to frost and have had no issues. Obviously this is no good when the heating is off. The IR lamp would be one of the safest options, the heat mat and the electric blanket options could place an electrical item below the tank or possibly to dip into the tank, either way there is more danger of a water/electricity mix, at least with the lamp you can wire it from above, once again IMHO only.

I'd have some worries about a fan heater going off on its own in the attic too.

Leaving the door open is a huge waste of heat, against burst pipes it's a cost saving, but it's not automated or a plan.

I have insulated around my tank, and have not insulated under it. All the copper valves etc are under the insulation too.

I wonder where most burst pipes have happened on average which have caused house flooding, where they in attics or inside the house themselves mainly because the houses were left unoccupied over the holiday with no heating on. It would be an interesting one.

M cebee

i let the heating freeze -8 burst pipes so far mostly around the outside walls


rads and hot/cold pipes

alfa beta

Anyone here recommend a good (accurate) make of frost stat?

I currently use an infa red bulb and have had no issues thankfully but I've been flicking it on and off manually - which is fine as long as we're in the house when it's cold.

I'm sure there's heaps of stats on the market - but I'd be interested in a few recommendations before buying one - as it's gonna be doing a pretty important job!

Lucyspell

We have just the usual insulation in our attic, but no source of heat, so we are thinking about the infra red lamps or perhaps a rad installation. We have had frozen pipes up there for last 2 weeks, and sorted it out a couple of times by placing a hot water bottle on the problem area!
I am a bit worried about the issue of water temperature in the tank. Is Ligionaires Disease an issue? Please have a look at the following link, would be grateful for any thoughts on this,
Thanks,
Lucy
http://www.legionella.org/general_info.htm#n2

alibabba

The handiest option is to leave the attic door slightly open. It worked for me over the last few weeks. Who cares if it wastes heat, its not like its going to be open for too long. Stick on an extra layer if the house feels chilly.

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

i let the heating freeze -8 burst pipes so far mostly around the outside walls


rads and hot/cold pipes

Might be able to look at fernox combined anti freeze and inhibiter which would end that problem occuring again, im not sure if the plumbing lads recommend it, i seen some saying they never seen it get cold enough in houses to need it, that seems to have changed now though.

cast_iron

robbie7730 wrote: »

I wonder where most burst pipes have happened on average which have caused house flooding, where they in attics or inside the house themselves mainly because the houses were left unoccupied over the holiday with no heating on. It would be an interesting one.

I wondered this also. Where did your mains pipe freeze? Where it meet the tank or further down the house before it reached the attic? If further down, it's hard to see the sense in heating the attic being the complete solution!

Bruthal

cast_iron wrote: »

I wondered this also. Where did your mains pipe freeze? Where it meet the tank or further down the house before it reached the attic? If further down, it's hard to see the sense in heating the attic being the complete solution!

It seems to have been the attic close to the tank, the attic tank itself was full of ice at different levels as the level in it dropped. I had blocked kitchen mixer and put on hot and cold to fill the attic tank with warm water from the cylinder, and then left attic door open which thaw`d it all out.

Mains into house froze then which now left me stuck when attic tank emptied but i then hooked up next doors outside tap to my outside one which solved that problem for the few days it took mine to return. Their water never froze into house but most others on road i think did.

I think the suggestions earlier about insulating around the attic tank and not insulating under it are good ones, along with a heating lamp.

I had no problems inside the house with pipes as i left the heating running all the time. I think people that went and left houses unoccupied had the worst problems possibly.

moonshadow

A dimplex frostwatcher does exactly what it says,thermostat switches on a anything below 5 degrees see link below,i have used them for years and they have been a great job both in the attic and outhouse.

http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/miscellaneous_heating/mph/index.htm

M cebee

9 burst pipes and about 12hrs later-i'm back up and running


minus a ceiling and some floorboards:mad:

still i know a a bit of plumbing now-wheres them frost stats at:pac:

cast_iron

robbie7730 wrote: »

Mains into house froze then which now left me stuck when attic tank emptied but i then hooked up next doors outside tap to my outside one which solved that problem for the few days it took mine to return. Their water never froze into house but most others on road i think did.

Interesting. So all in all, regardless of what work you do in the attic, there's not much you can do about the incoming mains.

Well, bar leaving a tap trickling at all times (which should not be done), and leaving the heating on. A neighbour had his heating left on, but never used the kitchen rad. The kitchen rad pipe was the only pipe in the house to burst despite the heat being on most of the time.

Bruthal

cast_iron wrote: »

Interesting. So all in all, regardless of what work you do in the attic, there's not much you can do about the incoming mains.

Well, bar leaving a tap trickling at all times (which should not be done), and leaving the heating on. A neighbour had his heating left on, but never used the kitchen rad. The kitchen rad pipe was the only pipe in the house to burst despite the heat being on most of the time.

Leaving the heating on wont stop the mains freezing in the ground coming in anyway.

When my mains stopped, it happend while i had cold tap running to make tea, when i put it on, slush and ice formed instantly on contact with the sink and started building up toward the tap then that just stopped flowing, never seen the like of it, like something from that film the day after tomorrow.

cast_iron

What sort of sink have you? :eek:

Bruthal

It was just the sink being at a below zero temp and the water from tap right at zero,

Kitchen rad was off, but was put on then.