Stolen heating oil

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

:eek:
Anyway the moral of my experience and the message I'm trying to convey here is to simply measure your oil immediately before & after delivery, keep track of the results. You might be surprised.

I assure you, watching the meter before and after is a lot more accurate.

SinewaveSurfer

what company do you work for ?

I only ask because otherwise you insinuate every oil company has a digital meter attached to the outside of the truck where the punter can view it.

I haven't noticed such a thing with the company we've been using, but I will assuredly check it out. And yes, if there's a meter on the truck that can be viewed by the customer they should certainly ask (demand if denied) to view it as the fill goes in. Chances are you won't catch anyone out this way as you'll get the honest amount. That doesn't invalidate my experience, or my assertion that delivery guys are capable of skimming.


Besides the enhanced accuracy of a digital meter, you can't argue with the validity of monitoring your own tank via dipping and keeping records as a means of verifying that you're getting the right amount each time.

tank = constant
filling from empty = constant
dipping when empty will result in a measurement of the dregs which will also be a constant
buying the same amount of litres each time = constant
the oil you actually get = variable

I mean, you can try and dispute the method all you like. But it will be quiet clear after two fills and more just how consistent your oil supplier is.

paky

Greaney wrote: »

Just posting this to give folks the heads up. A friend of mine (older lady, early 60's) got her heating oil stolen TWICE in the last three weeks!! Just advising folk to find a way of securing their oil tank.

The theives often leave enough for a few days/week or two, so that folk don't notice it's gone and think 'gosh, I used up my oil awful quick'. So if you've used your heating oil up in a very short period of time, you may have been stung.

this kind of robbery seems to be the work of gangs from eastern europe, specificaly polish. saw a documentary on it on 'road wars'. the gangs attach empty tanks to the bottom of there trucks and stakeout houses. they're pure dirtbirds. they do the same with cars. theyll park up beside one a rob it in the middle of the night lol
the lowlest of the low

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

what company do you work for ?

I only ask because otherwise you insinuate every oil company has a digital meter attached to the outside of the truck where the punter can view it.

I haven't noticed such a thing with the company we've been using, but I will assuredly check it out. And yes, if there's a meter on the truck that can be viewed by the customer they should certainly ask (demand if denied) to view it as the fill goes in. Chances are you won't catch anyone out this way as you'll get the honest amount. That doesn't invalidate my experience, or my assertion that delivery guys are capable of skimming.


Besides the enhanced accuracy of a digital meter, you can't argue with the validity of monitoring your own tank via dipping and keeping records as a means of verifying that you're getting the right amount each time.

tank = constant
filling from empty = constant
dipping when empty will result in a measurement of the dregs which will also be a constant
buying the same amount of litres each time = constant
the oil you actually get = variable

I mean, you can try and dispute the method all you like. But it will be quiet clear after two fills and more just how consistent your oil supplier is.

Dad owns an independent small oil company, and I can assure you, every rigid oil delivery truck must have a meter, either digital or otherwise.


It doesnt invalidate your comment that drivers are capable of such deceit, but it is unreasonable to suggest it is widely happening, without evidence to back it up.

Also, the dipstick method, if you're careful can be fairly accurate, but from experience, if you happen to drop the stick in anything other than perfectly gently, it will splash, leading to inaccurate measurement.
Also, the bottom of most tanks aren't perfectly flat, and so you could put it in one time and be in a different spot to every other time, leading to inaccuracies again.

SinewaveSurfer

"as seen below" ?? I don't see anything ??

And again I ask you - where is the meter ? In the trucks cabin or outside where the customer can comfortably, and reasonably view it ?? I certainly don't doubt that there's a meter in the cabin - it would be insane to be in such a business without one. But is there one for the customer to view ?? If you say every oil truck for every oil company has a meter available for the customer to view I will be certainly asking to see it in the future.

I have already agreed with you that checking out the trucks meter as your tank is being filled would be a good idea and would insure an honest fill each time. But if it's in the cabin it's hardly practical, and probably not even strictly allowed due to some insurance/workplace shenanigans I suspect. Never the less, I still think measuring your own tank is the best way of assessing if you've been skimmed, and good practise... whilst watching the trucks meter if possible is the best way of assuring you won't be skimmed. Argue with that all you like.

Also I never said or even suggested it's happening widely, certainly not as widely as you're claiming I suggested. In fact I said the NORM was an honest fill, and it was an unfamiliar driver who we've caught out skimming us over the busy christmas period. I did say that skimming is the oldest trick in the book, and it is - in many professions, that is not the same as saying the practise is happening widely. But on that note opportunist theft is the most common theft in the world, along with employee theft. That's another irrefutable fact.

As for the ''inaccuracies'' of the dipping method, you're just being pedantic. Obviously one would be careful, and whilst it won't be exact to the centimeter you will certainly be able to spot the likes of 50 euros worth of oil being skimmed from your order.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

"as seen below" ?? I don't see anything ??

And again I ask you - where is the meter ? In the trucks cabin or outside where the customer can comfortably, and reasonably view it ?? I certainly don't doubt that there's a meter in the cabin - it would be insane to be in such a business without one. But is there one for the customer to view ?? If you say every oil truck for every oil company has a meter available for the customer to view I will be certainly asking to see it in the future.

I have already agreed with you that checking out the trucks meter as your tank is being filled would be a good idea and would insure an honest fill each time. But if it's in the cabin it's hardly practical, and probably not even strictly allowed due to some insurance/workplace shenanigans I suspect. Never the less, I still think measuring your own tank is the best way of assessing if you've been skimmed, and good practise... whilst watching the trucks meter if possible is the best way of assuring you won't be skimmed. Argue with that all you like.

Also I never said or even suggested it's happening widely, certainly not as widely as you're claiming I suggested. In fact I said the NORM was an honest fill, and it was an unfamiliar driver who we've caught out skimming us over the busy christmas period. I did say that skimming is the oldest trick in the book, and it is - in many professions, that is not the same as saying the practise is happening widely. But on that note opportunist theft is the most common theft in the world, along with employee theft. That's another irrefutable fact.

As for the ''inaccuracies'' of the dipping method, you're just being pedantic. Obviously one would be careful, and whilst it won't be exact to the centimeter you will certainly be able to spot the likes of 50 euros worth of oil being skimmed from your order.

Apologies, had trouble uploading, just google image search oil delivery truck meter, first picture is the older style one that we have, which is always on the passenger side in a box, generally has a roller shutter door.
http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.heatingoil.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/boro-truck-meter.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.heatingoil.com/blog/heatingoilcom-photo-of-the-day-heating-oil-truck-meter1108/&usg=__WvD0esfT0zDHoO6QqyYoMlHGnus=&h=427&w=640&sz=115&hl=en&start=0&sig2=xqokN4Ql7lxoi_m2q-A4Aw&zoom=1&tbnid=Z58OvP18QrjX5M:&tbnh=144&tbnw=195&ei=b2QvTaiCLNC2hAf97NHoCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Doil%2Btruck%2Bdelivery%2Bmeter%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D587%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=540&vpy=88&dur=1452&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=145&ty=88&oei=b2QvTaiCLNC2hAf97NHoCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0

I repeat, every oil truck has a meter, and I have never seen a truck without one outside. Also, all meters have the facility for a print out on your delivery docket, so ask for one before he starts filling.

As regards not being exact to the centimetre not mattering, you reckoned that a few inches translated into a hundred euros worth...??

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

a few inches. Roughly 100 euros worth.

I have great experience of it myself, from dipping incoming deliveries, there can be differences of an inch or 2 on the dipstick without necessarily being careless.

Can you tell me what type of tank you have too? I can't quite grasp the type it is where a few inches translates into €100 worth. I may be wrong, but im interested.

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

Apologies, had trouble uploading, just google image search oil delivery truck meter, first picture is the older style one that we have, which is always on the passenger side in a box, generally has a roller shutter door.
I repeat, every oil truck has a meter, and I have never seen a truck without one outside. Also, all meters have the facility for a print out on your delivery docket, so ask for one before he starts filling.

Why don't you just provide a link to the image you are referring to. to avoid confusion. no need to imbed it in your message, just the link will do.

The meter on the outside thing is a non-argument, I merely wanted you to clarify exactly that it's available right across the board (not just some companies) so I can be sure to check it next time we get a delivery. None of this is really going anywhere towards invalidating my claim that a delivery driver can skim your oil (and skimmed us over xmas) if given the opportunity. I must have agreed with you, what, two or three times already now that viewing the trucks meter during delivery would be a good idea. So let's put that tidbit to rest now that you've confirmed there should be a meter on the outside of the truck available for the customer to see. on every truck. with every company. Again - that's a good idea for insuring you get don't get skimmed (see: before the fact).

My advice is simply that measuring/dipping your own tank is good practise, and a sound way of verifying if you have been skimmed (see: after the fact). Your advice about checking the trucks meter as your tank is being filled is also sound advice, which insures you won't be skimmed. See the distinction ? or will we go on this merry go round once more...

Which, laughably, brings me to the fact you too also dip your own incoming deliveries. You do see the irony in admitting that, don't you ? Why bother ? Same reason I'm saying we should do it ourselves with our own tanks.

as far as the measurements, you're obviously a pedant, but like I said you've got a vested interest in this discussion so I can let the pedantics slide.

I will gladly provide the tank-inch-euro ratio when I get back to the homestead, but don't expect that tonight.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

Which, laughably, brings me to the fact you too also dip your own incoming deliveries. You do see the irony in admitting that, don't you ? Why bother ? Same reason I'm saying we should do it ourselves with our own tanks.

as far as the measurements, you're obviously a pedant, but like I said you've got a vested interest in this discussion so I can let the pedantics slide.

I will gladly provide the tank-inch-euro ratio when I get back to the homestead, but don't expect that tonight.

I'm not saying dipping is not effective, I'm simply saying that you have to be very careful, or you will be inaccurate. You reckon a few inches lost you €100, but say it doesn't matter if it's a couple of centimetres out. Maths lesson, 1 inch = 2.5cm

Also, we dip the incoming lorry which has calibrated dipsticks accurate to the nearest 50 lts. Not a stick you found in your shed.

So by your logic, €50 worth which you should be able to "easily spot", would be what, 2/3 centimetres?

SinewaveSurfer

coincidentally the old man just called me
600 gallon tank
The fill cost 300 euros
(forgot to ask the amount of litres we ordered, will be chatting with him again tomorrow)
For the amount we order (quantity - not monetary value) each and every time the increase in the tank - from empty - is 9 inches - the test is carried out accurately. as verified by the consistent results with the regular driver. You're being cute with the 'some stick you found in the shed' bs. Insulting my intelligence is not appreciated.
When we were skimmed the increase was only 7 inches
Do the maths - that's 66.6 euros. So I was off by a third with the 100 euros, sorry about that.
(but, that being said, a few inches would easily amount to 100 euros. I was off by the inch and consequently off by the euro.)

Furthermore, on the receipt the driver didn't put his name or his truck number - which this company ALWAYS does.


So, you can keep arguing that delivery guys wouldn't, couldn't, or don't skim. Off with ya.

senorG

What happens the oil in the hose?

Genuine question, I just interested in the answer. The delivery trucks have compartments for say road diesel/green diesel/kerosene. So lets say I'm getting green diesel and my neighbor kerosene. When he stops pumping my diesel the hose is still full of green. Before he pumps kerosene he has to empty the hose (back into the truck). So he starts pumping the kerosene with an empty hose but when finished pumping the neighbors tank the hose is full again. He then drives off with the kerosene in hose which has been paid for by the neighbor.

I'm not saying I'm right its just something I've often wondered about. Anyone set me straight?

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

coincidentally the old man just called me
600 gallon tank
The fill cost 300 euros
(forgot to ask the amount of litres we ordered, will be chatting with him again tomorrow)
For the amount we order each and every time the increase in the tank - from empty - is 9 inches - the test is carried out accurately. as verified by the consistent results with the regular driver. You're being cute with the 'some stick you found in the shed' bs. Insulting my intelligence is not appreciated.
When we were skimmed the increase was only 7 inches
Do the maths - that's 66.6 euros. So I was off by a third with the 100 euros, sorry about that.

Furthermore, on the receipt the driver didn't put his name or his truck number - which this company ALWAYS does.


So, you can keep arguing that delivery guys wouldn't, couldn't, or don't skim. Off with ya.

I am not sayin it can't, or doesn't sometimes happen, as I already said.

Padkir wrote: »

It doesnt invalidate your comment that drivers are capable of such deceit

So you use a certified calibrated dipstick do you?

Look, maybe you were, I don't know, but i don't want you giving everyone on here the impression that delivery drivers are thieves and out to get them. In every aspect of society there are some bad eggs, but more than 99.9% are genuine.

When he gets back to head office, he has to account for every litre that's delivered and left in the truck as against what he loaded, unless it is a small business, owner-managed. So if this was the case, the company as a whole were involved, and I would say if you've never noticed any problems before, it's unlikely.

Padkir

senorG wrote: »

What happens the oil in the hose?

Genuine question, I just interested in the answer. The delivery trucks have compartments for say road diesel/green diesel/kerosene. So lets say I'm getting green diesel and my neighbor kerosene. When he stops pumping my diesel the hose is still full of green. Before he pumps kerosene he has to empty the hose (back into the truck). So he starts pumping the kerosene with an empty hose but when finished pumping the neighbors tank the hose is full again. He then drives off with the kerosene in hose which has been paid for by the neighbor.

I'm not saying I'm right its just something I've often wondered about. Anyone set me straight?

The hose is always full. If I was delivering diesel and the next fill was kerosene, I would change to Kerosene 90lts before the end of the fill, to effectively flush out the pipe, as it holds roughly 90lts. It is always full, regardless of the product in it.
If, for example, he forgot to switch it over, it would need to be flushed back into his own tank, but the hose remains full, and after this is done, the meter will be reset, or the docket inserted for printing, whichever is normal practice for the company!:)

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

I am not sayin it can't, or doesn't sometimes happen, as I already said.

Like I said, your arguments have been mostly if not entirely pedantic. So no need to clarify your position now that I've given you the numbers.
I see that you're not arguing against the maths either once delivered.

Padkir wrote: »

So you use a certified calibrated dipstick do you?

Still with the smarmy bs. I'm not sure, but it's the same stick (see: constant) used each time (see: constant) and with the regular driver (see: constant) the measurements always come up the exact same (see: constant). So I'd say, given the consistency of the results, and the basic laws of accurate testing (constant VS variable etc), there is absolutely no issue with the dipstick.

Padkir wrote: »

Look, maybe you were, I don't know, but i don't want you giving everyone on here the impression that delivery drivers are thieves and out to get them. In every aspect of society there are some bad eggs, but more than 99.9% are genuine.

Maybe you should have started off with that, instead of starting some utterly inane series of pedantic non-arguments against my [a] absolutely true experience sound advice re: consistently measuring your tank before & after delivery. A practise you yourself admit to carrying out in your own business. The only impression I wanted to give people is that they should actively measure their own tank, and to relay the fact we were skimmed over christmas. This thread is pretty much based over the christmas period. I think that fact is relevant. I also made it PERFECTLY CLEAR a couple of times now that it isn't the norm, how our usual driver was on the ball. but sadly that isn't enough for you. but you're in the oil business, so your bias is understandable.

Padkir wrote: »

When he gets back to head office, he has to account for every litre that's delivered and left in the truck as against what he loaded, unless it is a small business, owner-managed. So if this was the case, the company as a whole were involved, and I would say if you've never noticed any problems before, it's unlikely.

look mate, you might be involved in an oil business of your own - and please state which one if you like - but you can't be so presumptious about how every other oil company operates. Now you're even making stipulations "unless it is a small business, owner-managed"... earlier on you were speaking on behalf of every single company. And you can parrot as much business protocol as you like, but when someone is thieving they don't exactly follow protocol now do they ? I don't assume the company are in on it, but if the driver is capable of skimming a customer he's certainly capable of pulling the wool over his employers eyes too. at least attempting to.

now, speak for your own business - and name it - but I'm tired of you speaking on behalf of every company.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

Like I said, your arguments have been mostly if not entirely pedantic. So no need to clarify your position now that I've given you the numbers.
I see that you're not arguing against the maths either once delivered.

Still with the smarmy bs. I'm not sure, but it's the same stick (see: constant) used each time (see: constant) and with the regular driver (see: constant) the measurements always come up the exact same (see: constant). So I'd say, given the consistency of the results, and the basic laws of accurate testing (constant VS variable etc), there is absolutely no issue with the dipstick.

Maybe you should have started off with that, instead of starting some utterly inane series of pedantic non-arguments against my [a] absolutely true experience sound advice re: consistently measuring your tank before & after delivery. A practise you yourself admit to carrying out in your own business. The only impression I wanted to give people is that they should actively measure their own tank, and to relay the fact we were skimmed over christmas. This thread is pretty much based over the christmas period. I think that fact is relevant. I also made it PERFECTLY CLEAR a couple of times now that it isn't the norm, how our usual driver was on the ball. but sadly that isn't enough for you. but you're in the oil business, so your bias is understandable.

look mate, you might be involved in an oil business of your own - and please state which one if you like - but you can't be so presumptious about how every other oil company operates. Now you're even making stipulations "unless it is a small business, owner-managed"... earlier on you were speaking on behalf of every single company. And you can parrot as much business protocol as you like, but when someone is thieving they don't exactly follow protocol now do they ? I don't assume the company are in on it, but if the driver is capable of skimming a customer he's certainly capable of pulling the wool over his employers eyes too. at least attempting to.

now, speak for your own business - and name it - but I'm tired of you speaking on behalf of every company.

I'm not being pedantic, but I'm not going to say that no driver would do this, because there are thieves in every aspect of life. I'm just explaining that almost all are genuine, enough clarification for you???

Look, it might be the same stick, and it may very well be that you were cheated, I'm simply explaining that it may not always be accurate enough to accuse a driver of not giving you the full amount.

What are you suggesting so, that the driver is not giving you all of the oil, and then putting it into a tank of his own? Because if they were simply going back to the depot and re-loading, etc, then it's only for the benefit of the company.
Look, this is off the point, you won't accept my experience in this area so there's no point saying any more on the matter.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

coincidentally the old man just called me
600 gallon tank
The fill cost 300 euros
(forgot to ask the amount of litres we ordered, will be chatting with him again tomorrow)
For the amount we order (quantity - not monetary value) each and every time the increase in the tank - from empty - is 9 inches - the test is carried out accurately. as verified by the consistent results with the regular driver. You're being cute with the 'some stick you found in the shed' bs. Insulting my intelligence is not appreciated.
When we were skimmed the increase was only 7 inches
Do the maths - that's 66.6 euros. So I was off by a third with the 100 euros, sorry about that.
(but, that being said, a few inches would easily amount to 100 euros. I was off by the inch and consequently off by the euro.)

Furthermore, on the receipt the driver didn't put his name or his truck number - which this company ALWAYS does.


So, you can keep arguing that delivery guys wouldn't, couldn't, or don't skim. Off with ya.

Quick question. When you order, what do you order? €300 or lets say, 300lts? Is it monetary or in litres?

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

Quick question. When you order, what do you order? €300 or lets say, 300lts? Is it monetary or in litres?

like I said in the piece you quoated - we order by the quantity. In Gallons most likely.

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

I'm not being pedantic, but I'm not going to say that no driver would do this, because there are thieves in every aspect of life. I'm just explaining that almost all are genuine, enough clarification for you???

Look, it might be the same stick, and it may very well be that you were cheated, I'm simply explaining that it may not always be accurate enough to accuse a driver of not giving you the full amount.

What are you suggesting so, that the driver is not giving you all of the oil, and then putting it into a tank of his own? Because if they were simply going back to the depot and re-loading, etc, then it's only for the benefit of the company.
Look, this is off the point, you won't accept my experience in this area so there's no point saying any more on the matter.

pedantic is exactly what you're being. how else do you explain every post you've made in this exchange without furthering your argument in any way ? You're not even fundamentally disagreeing with me. Or successfully contradicting my maths or methods. ''not every driver is a crook'' is as far as you have got with all your bluster
...and that's a statement I made in my first post on this matter

you're naive if you think just because you work in one oil company you know how every other company operates, and whether they have opportunist thieves on their staff - in this case over the busy xmas period.

our family business is a restaurant, if someone says they were intentionally short-changed at a restaurant I'm not about to argue with them for the sake of it. So long as they're not accusing my restaurant of any improprietry why would I possibly argue with them. How could I possibly be so presumptuous as to insinuate they couldn't have been short changed - just because I myself run a tight ship in my own business ?

you have also glossed over the fact the driver in question intentionally left his name and truck number off the receipt, the first time that's ever happened - and what a coincidence - the same time our measurment suggests we've been skimmed to the tune of 66 euros.

if you want me to speculate on what he's doing with the surplus oil, he could be either [a] delivering it to his own tank squeezing an extra delivery, possibly to a mate, and pocketing the surplus cash.

Jesus - am I supposed to know what he's doing with the oil to validate the fact we've been skimmed ? More of your bs.

Your experience in your own business doesn't mean as much as you think. We were skimmed. That's a fact. You need to get your head out of your arse.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

pedantic is exactly what you're being. how else do you explain every post you've made in this exchange without furthering your argument in any way ? You're not even fundamentally disagreeing with me. Or successfully contradicting my maths or methods. ''not every driver is a crook'' is as far as you have got with all your bluster
...and that's a statement I made in my first post on this matter

you're naive if you think just because you work in one oil company you know how every other company operates, and whether they have opportunist thieves on their staff - in this case over the busy xmas period.

our family business is a restaurant, if someone says they were intentionally short-changed at a restaurant I'm not about to argue with them for the sake of it. So long as they're not accusing my restaurant of any improprietry why would I possibly argue with them. How could I possibly be so presumptuous as to insinuate they couldn't have been short changed - just because I myself run a tight ship in my own business ?

you have also glossed over the fact the driver in question intentionally left his name and truck number off the receipt, the first time that's ever happened - and what a coincidence - the same time our measurment suggests we've been skimmed to the tune of 66 euros.

if you want me to speculate on what he's doing with the surplus oil, he could be either [a] delivering it to his own tank squeezing an extra delivery, possibly to a mate, and pocketing the surplus cash.

Jesus - am I supposed to know what he's doing with the oil to validate the fact we've been skimmed ? More of your bs.

Your experience in your own business doesn't mean as much as you think. We were skimmed. That's a fact. You need to get your head out of your arse.

If you can prove it so well, report it. And if they accept responsibility and admit to it, then you can come back here and tell me that I'm wrong.

pleasant Co.

Padkir wrote: »

then you can come back here and tell me that I'm wrong.

Academically speaking, if you're not wrong...what are you right about?

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

If you can prove it so well, report it. And if they accept responsibility and admit to it, then you can come back here and tell me that I'm wrong.

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

We haven't decided whether to report him to the company or try and catch them out on the spot next time around.

from my first post.

round and round we go... :rolleyes:

Padkir

Mactard wrote: »

Academically speaking, if you're not wrong...what are you right about?

Fair point, not that I'm right as such, just that he's wrong to assume the only possible reason for the discrepancies is because of dishonesty on the driver's part, he's refusing to listen to any alternatives. He states it's a fact that he was skimmed. its not a fact, it's speculation!

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

from my first post.

round and round we go... :rolleyes:

But it's more than likely going to be your regular driver next time.

Why wouldn't you report it if you're sure you're right? I know it would be better to catch him out in the act, but how exactly can you catch him out?

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

its not a fact, it's speculation!

jesus... christ.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

jesus... christ.

Good input. If it's a fact, you can prove it conclusively. You can't, simple as.

SinewaveSurfer

double post

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

Good input. If it's a fact, you can prove it conclusively. You can't, simple as.

that wasn't input, it was exasperation. The dipping may be rudimentary, but it is consistent, reliable and anything but speculation. the FACT is we are invoiced and charged for more than we received. For the love of god re-read the past page or two for the details cos I'm not going to repeat them again.

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

The main reason we don't report it immediately is because it didn't become apparent until we got a refill from the usual chap, and noticed the extra inches.

From my first post.
I took care of the family homestead whilst the parents travelled this xmas. I don't live there ordinarily. The oil was delivered under my supervision, I did the test as I have done before, as my father does all the time, in the exact same fashion and as he requested of me. made a note of the measurements, but did not know off the top of my head what it was supposed to be. When the folks returned it became apparent it was off after talking with the old man - we certainly weren't expecting to be ripped off, but the lack of details on the receipt aroused suspicion in the old man and he asked me about the measurements, by then it was too late to prove anything.

on the latest delivery I did the test again - with the regular driver - in the exact same fashion (it's not keyhole surgery) and the results were as they were supposed to be. 9 inches.

you can speculate that we're incapable of doing the test, but we are perfectly capable and the results have always been perfectly consistent with the same driver. So we can either offer our complaint now, with the dodgey receipt, but no real form of proof. or we can try to catch him out.

how will we catch him out ? just do the measurement immediately after he's done while he's busy talking to one of us. if he's skimmed us again - which he may not as the busy xmas period is past - we will file the complaint right away before burning any oil. we'll take it from there, someone will have to come out and take their own dip measurement - next time we order the same amount they can take another dip and spot the difference.

what other way would you suggest, mr expert, on catching out an opportunist thief ?

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

Good input. If it's a fact, you can prove it conclusively. You can't, simple as.

and by the way, this logic is as flimsy as every other argument you've attempted to make.
Because it's difficult to prove to others - after the oil has been burned - does not mean it didn't happen.

L5

i think i know the person in question greaney. Her first name doesnt begin with a V by any chance does it ??
Shocking what happened, scum of the earth.
Probably our travelling friends !

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

But it's more than likely going to be your regular driver next time.

Why wouldn't you report it if you're sure you're right? I know it would be better to catch him out in the act, but how exactly can you catch him out?

we've come up with a good, innocuous reason to request the same guy.

we're open to ideas on catching him out. but your assertion that we can't prove it after the fact therefore there is no crime, as I stated above, is flimsy at best. we've definitely proven it to ourselves.

you can call me a liar if you like. But then again, you're in the business yourself. Hardly impartial.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

that wasn't input, it was exasperation. The dipping may be rudimentary, but it is consistent, reliable and anything but speculation. the FACT is we are invoiced and charged for more than we received. For the love of god re-read the past page or two for the details cos I'm not going to repeat them again.

From my first post.
I took care of the family homestead whilst the parents travelled this xmas. I don't live there ordinarily. The oil was delivered under my supervision, I did the test as I have done before, as my father does all the time, in the exact same fashion and as he requested of me. made a note of the measurements, but did not know off the top of my head what it was supposed to be. When the folks returned it became apparent it was off after talking with the old man - we certainly weren't expecting to be ripped off, but the lack of details on the receipt aroused suspicion in the old man and he asked me about the measurements, by then it was too late to prove anything.

on the latest delivery I did the test again - with the regular driver - in the exact same fashion (it's not keyhole surgery) and the results were as they were supposed to be. 9 inches.

you can speculate that we're incapable of doing the test, but we are perfectly capable and the results have always been perfectly consistent with the same driver. So we can either offer our complaint now, with the dodgey receipt, but no real form of proof. or we can try to catch him out.

how will we catch him out ? just do the measurement immediately after he's done while he's busy talking to one of us. if he's skimmed us again - which he may not as the busy xmas period is past - we will file the complaint right away before burning any oil. we'll take it from there, someone will have to come out and take their own dip measurement - next time we order the same amount they can take another dip and spot the difference.

what other way would you suggest, mr expert, on catching out an opportunist thief ?

There is no other way. Ensure he gives you a printed meter reading, if it reads the appropriate amount, short of determining that the meter is improperly calibrated, you can't prove these accusations with an uncalibrated dipstick.

Also, you're waiting to catch him out? How long are you intending on waiting, if you've received another order since?

And if you're going to do it just after he's finished, the oil will still be moving around, giving another inaccurate reading. So unless you can persuade him to wait for 10 mins, then you're screwed! Even if he did, and it emerged that the dipstick was a bit lower than normal, this is NOT PROOF! Oil is measured by litres, not inches on an uncalibrated stick.