Stolen heating oil

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

Because it's difficult to prove to others - after the oil has been burned - does not mean it didn't happen.

You can say that about anything. Absolutely anything. I could make anything up, and use that logic to say it happened. "Just because I can't prove it, doesn't mean it didn't happen." is not an argument.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

we've come up with a good, innocuous reason to request the same guy.

we're open to ideas on catching him out. but your assertion that we can't prove it after the fact therefore there is no crime, as I stated above, is flimsy at best. we've definitely proven it to ourselves.

you can call me a liar if you like. But then again, you're in the business yourself. Hardly impartial.

You've proven it to yourself... tell that to the Judge!:rolleyes:

Stop accusing me of being biased, I'm giving an informed opinion because I have knowledge of the business.

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

You can say that about anything. Absolutely anything. I could make anything up, and use that logic to say it happened. "Just because I can't prove it, doesn't mean it didn't happen." is not an argument.

right, and if you go back and see where you first started talking sh1t3 in reply to my first post you can see you began by suggesting my methods of measuring were too inaccurate to determine a shortcoming in the delivery. and so on and so forth making it up as you go along, contrary & pedantic for the sake of it. not really going anywhere, and you've gone from ''not all delivery guys are crooks'' to ''you can't prove it''.... I suppose that's progress.

But sure - you're entitled to believe I'm lying, which is a pretty sad state of affairs, and as a guy in the oil business yourself that doesn't make you look like an insecure bell end in the slightest [/sarcasm] But where you're totally full of sh1t3 is denouncing the measuring methods. You dip yourself. You can say we're not 'pro' enough to do it right, despite the consistency of our results. Then you can say I'm lying. Great. :rolleyes:
You can say I'm lying about the dodgy receipt too. s.h1t, why not just say I live in barbados and all of this is just a ruse to amuse myself ?



and we don't want a printed read out off the guy, we want to catch him acting the cu/\/t, so we will let him deliver as usual with no hint of suspicion. Thanks for the tip about the oil still moving. We'll just let him go, let the oil settle, measure it, and make our complaint then if we notice he's done it again. Which I'm half not expecting him to do, as it's not such a busy period right now. It's better than making the complaint at any other point, at least the option is there for the depot manager to get involved and assess the situation for himself before we've even touched the oil.


like I said - I'm open to suggestions on how to catch the guy out. It's pretty sad that as a man in the business yourself you have no good or better ideas for catching out an unscrupulous delivery driver. Probably exactly the reason they're so confident they can get away with it.

I believe that's game set & match.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

You dip yourself. You can say we're not 'pro' enough to do it right, despite the consistency of our results. Then you can say I'm lying. Great. :rolleyes:
You can say I'm lying about the dodgy receipt too. s.h1t, why not just say I live in barbados and all of this is just a ruse to amuse myself ?

I dip with calibrated dipsticks, which in all honesty could probably detect a discrepancy of as little as 20 or 30 lts. If there were 3 inches of a difference there, it would account to a few hundred euro, as much as you would be buying in total.

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

and we don't want a printed read out off the guy, we want to catch him acting the cu/\/t, so we will let him deliver as usual with no hint of suspicion. Thanks for the tip about the oil still moving. We'll just let him go, let the oil settle, measure it, and make our complaint then if we notice he's done it again. Which I'm half not expecting him to do, as it's not such a busy period right now. It's better than making the complaint at any other point, at least the option is there for the depot manager to get involved and assess the situation for himself before we've even touched the oil.

like I said - I'm open to suggestions on how to catch the guy out. It's pretty sad that as a man in the business yourself you have no good or better ideas for catching out an unscrupulous delivery driver. Probably exactly the reason they're so confident they can get away with it.

Ok, go along with your theory, you complain, and the depot manager comes out. Prove you haven't used or removed some of the oil since the driver left.

I'm getting a little sick of your snide remarks and insinuations, but all I can tell you is that I'm genuine, and would never do such a thing, as with almost everyone else. The reason I've moved from, "It didn't happen" to "You can't prove it" is because it is of no relevance whether it did or didn't happen if you can't prove it. You won't concede that there may have been other reasons for you to be 2 inches off, so I might as well carry on as though it did happen, because you're not going to budge on that matter.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

It's pretty sad that as a man in the business yourself you have no good or better ideas for catching out an unscrupulous delivery driver. Probably exactly the reason they're so confident they can get away with it.
I believe that's game set & match.

Whatever you like to believe. There is no way of proving it short of running the contents of the tank through a meter yourself. I could go out to every house and probably get away with it, but it's in the interests of decency, honesty and good business not to.

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

I dip with calibrated dipsticks, which in all honesty could probably detect a discrepancy of as little as 20 or 30 lts. If there were 3 inches of a difference there, it would account to a few hundred euro, as much as you would be buying in total.




Ok, go along with your theory, you complain, and the depot manager comes out. Prove you haven't used or removed some of the oil since the driver left.

I'm getting a little sick of your snide remarks and insinuations, but all I can tell you is that I'm genuine, and would never do such a thing, as with almost everyone else. The reason I've moved from, "It didn't happen" to "You can't prove it" is because it is of no relevance whether it did or didn't happen if you can't prove it. You won't concede that there may have been other reasons for you to be 2 inches off, so I might as well carry on as though it did happen, because you're not going to budge on that matter.

I'd have more respect for you if you didn't so patently just make s.h1t up as you went along. Your initial qualm was with the measuring method. Your arguments kept evolving and went no where as I responded to your every pedantic challenge.

I can concede there could be other reasons for him not giving the right amount of oil, or not signing his name on the receipt, or his truck number. Honest mistake ? sure ok, suggest it and I'll concede to it.

but, not that it's the crux of your argument now, I won't concede the measurements were flawed. nor retract my simple advice to the readers of the board here to regularly carry out their own measurements.

2 inches is a considerable amount when 9 is what is the norm. it's not some acceptable margin of error.




so anyway smart guy, for the sake of argument why don't you just pretend for a minute that what I'm saying here is true & accurate. I know, it's a stretch, but you can do it if you really try. Now, as someone who knows so much the protocol of this oil business and is all knowing of all oil companies operating in galway, and their employees, and their methods, both in theory and practise....please share with me a method of catching a dodgy delivery driver out who would skim more than a fifth of a customers delivery. I put it to you, that if a man such as yourself knows no good way of catching such an unscrupulous delivery driver out than it stands to reason that he would happily do such a thing because he is confident he can get away with it.

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

There is no way of proving it short of running the contents of the tank through a meter yourself. I could go out to every house and probably get away with it, but it's in the interests of decency, honesty and good business not to.

and there we have it.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

I'd have more respect for you if you didn't so patently just make s.h1t up as you went along. Your initial qualm was with the measuring method. Your arguments kept evolving and went no where as I responded to your every pedantic challenge.

I can concede there could be other reasons for him not giving the right amount of oil, or not signing his name on the receipt, or his truck number. Honest mistake ? sure ok, suggest it and I'll concede to it.

but, not that it's the crux of your argument now, I won't concede the measurements were flawed. or my simple advice to the readers of the board here to regularly carry out their own measurements.

2 inches is a considerable amount when 9 is what is the norm. it's not some acceptable margin of error.




so anyway smart guy, for the sake of argument why don't you just pretend for a minute that what I'm saying here is true & accurate. I know, it's a stretch, but you can do it if you really try. Now, as someone who knows so much the protocol of this oil business and is all knowing of all oil companies operating in galway, and their employees, and their methods, both in theory and practise....please share with me a method of catching a dodgy delivery driver out who would skim more than a fifth of a customers delivery. I put it to you, that if a man such as yourself knows no good way of catching such an unscrupulous delivery driver out than it stands to reason that he would happily do such a thing because he is confident he can get away with it.

What sh1t exctly am I making up as I go along?

I'm evolving my argument to keep up with you not accepting any of them! You responded to every challenge, but not very convincingly. If you had, I wouldn't be here right now. There's no point just repeating that not all delivery drivers are thieves. That would get me very far wouldn't it?

For the 3rd or 4th time, there is no way of catching him, short of looking at the meter and seeing that there is less metered out than on the receipt. Either that or prove the meter is not calibrated correctly.

Once again, Oil is not measured in inches, and considering that 2 different people were doing the measuring, techniques may differ.

Head The Wall

Get a room you two

Padkir

Padkir wrote: »

Whatever you like to believe. There is no way of proving it short of running the contents of the tank through a meter yourself. I could go out to every house and probably get away with it, but it's in the interests of decency, honesty and good business not to.

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

and there we have it.

Left out a bit when you were Bolding there didn't you?

To develop your logic a little, Just because I can get away with it doesn't mean I will do it.

Padkir

Head The Wall wrote: »

Get a room you two

A boxing ring would probably be more appropriate!:rolleyes:

SinewaveSurfer

Padkir wrote: »

Left out a bit when you were Bolding there didn't you?

To develop your logic a little, Just because I can get away with it doesn't mean I will do it.

actually no I didn't.
as you can see... it's right there. I made the pertinent piece bold. you don't seem to understand that we're talking about a dishonest driver here.

Padkir wrote: »

There is no way of proving it short of running the contents of the tank through a meter yourself. I could go out to every house and probably get away with it, but it's in the interests of decency, honesty and good business not to.

and you're not developing my logic at all. you have no concept of logic.

Padkir wrote: »

What sh1t exctly am I making up as I go along?

I'm evolving my argument to keep up with you not accepting any of them! You responded to every challenge, but not very convincingly. If you had, I wouldn't be here right now. There's no point just repeating that not all delivery drivers are thieves. That would get me very far wouldn't it?

For the 3rd or 4th time, there is no way of catching him, short of looking at the meter and seeing that there is less metered out than on the receipt. Either that or prove the meter is not calibrated correctly.

Once again, Oil is not measured in inches, and considering that 2 different people were doing the measuring, techniques may differ.

two people who've done the same test many times and have got the exact same results every time with the same delivery driver.

and the only time the test gave a considerably, CONSIDERABLY, different result was with an unfamiliar driver who gave a dodgy receipt during an extremely busy period.

the measuring methods are fine.

It comes down to this, you - a guy with a vested interest in an oil delivery business - don't believe a word I'm saying.


but, most interestingly of all, you have at least confirmed that if what I'm saying is true it is hard to prove as a customer that you've been skimmed by your delivery driver. at least in your professional opinion, and in your own experience.

classy.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

actually no I didn't.
as you can see... it's right there. I made the pertinent piece bold. you don't seem to understand that we're talking about a dishonest driver here.

and you're not developing my logic at all. you have no concept of logic.

two people who've done the same test many times and have got the exact same results every time with the same delivery driver.

and the only time the test gave a considerably, CONSIDERABLY, different result was with an unfamiliar driver who gave a dodgy receipt during an extremely busy period.

the measuring methods are fine.

It comes down to this, you - a guy with a vested interest in an oil delivery business - don't believe a word I'm saying.

but, most interestingly of all, you have at least confirmed that if what I'm saying is true it is hard to prove as a customer that you've been skimmed by your delivery driver. at least in your professional opinion, and in your own experience.
classy.

Why is the fact that it's in a busy period important? You've mentioned that a few times now. It's a stressful enough period without trying to be scamming someone out of oil!

Would you not agree that it's more likely that he forgot to put his name/number on the receipt because it was an extremely busy period and he was in a hurry?

Also, you snidely insinuate that I'm probably dishonest (and don't pretend that's not what you're insinuating because I don't want to hear it!) because I know there's no good way of proving dishonesty like this. So, what's your way of proving it?

You have it in your head now that it was a dishonest driver who skimmed you out of 2 inches of oil (good measurement there), and there is obviously no point arguing with you.

SinewaveSurfer

yawn

Padkir wrote: »

no point arguing with you.

you see sense at last.

Padkir

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

yawn
you see sense at last.

Because you're so arrogant that you won't listen to reason.

For the record, I never said that you were lying and that it wasn't possible that you had been skimmed. I'm merely saying that it's not conclusive to blame the delivery driver (and treat it as a fact) considering your flawed proof.

You claim that you never insinuated that a lot of drivers do this, and a perfect delivery is the norm, but I'm afraid this doesn't really hold with your first post, where it's your first assumption.

SinewaveSurfer wrote: »

Guys,
of those of you seemingly experiencing OIL theft... are you sure it hasn't happened at the point of delivery ?
it would be my first assumption as to where the missing oil went.

You call me biased because I'm simply defending the integrity of drivers, yet before the argument even begins you have your assumptions.

And that's where the problem lies, you have gotten angry to the point that your reasoning (if it exists at all) is clouded and you can't see for one second that there may be a different explanation perhaps? But of course it's impossible that any mistakes could have been made by you or your father? You're certainly not human after all...:rolleyes:

Which actually makes me question why you would not assume, after years of perfect deliveries, that it may have just been a genuine mistake, and if you had brought it up with the company immediately, and looked for a solution, there could have been a satisfactory one readily available. I for one believe in the goodness of most people, and unless I had conclusive evidence, I would not be accusing anyone of theft.

I'm sure you're going to want to have the last word anyway, but I can assure you I've made all my points before, and I'm confident that anyone reading it will now not jump to the conclusion that a meaningful percentage of delivery drivers are thieves, which is really the only point I want to make, because, in all honesty, I couldn't give a sh1t aout you or your 2 inches.

dubbeat

Hearing this overwhelms me with rage.

I have no problem what so ever donating a few hours in the evening to watch the house. If culprits were sighted I'd have no problem confronting them and warning them not to try it again.


There's bound top be at least a few more members of the community willing to contribute a few hours a week

Amhran Nua

Another spate of reported oil robberies around the westside area in recent weeks, according to the residents' association here.

Greaney

I started this thread a few weeks ago and I'm sorry to say, my friend of whom I was speaking about got her oil stolen again!! That's three times in the last few months!! She's a pensioner for crying out loud:mad:

booksalot

Greaney wrote: »

I started this thread a few weeks ago and I'm sorry to say, my friend of whom I was speaking about got her oil stolen again!! That's three times in the last few months!! She's a pensioner for crying out loud:mad:

Have a friend in forster court got done last weekend. Full tank

get_d_hand_in

Greaney wrote: »

I started this thread a few weeks ago and I'm sorry to say, my friend of whom I was speaking about got her oil stolen again!! That's three times in the last few months!! She's a pensioner for crying out loud:mad:

Sorry to hear about this. We should be protecting the vulnerable i our community.

Could you try put up security lighting, CCTV prob wont deter them but anyway.

Bobby trap the friggin oil tank ( only joking, dont do this, you'll only end uo in trouble).

tommy21

Greaney wrote: »

I started this thread a few weeks ago and I'm sorry to say, my friend of whom I was speaking about got her oil stolen again!! That's three times in the last few months!! She's a pensioner for crying out loud:mad:

Unbelievable, so much scum out there. Obviously they see him/her and the park as an easy touch. My apologies if this is insensitive, but what have they done to secure the tank (don't have time to read the 6 pages of people arguing with each other!) - I feel for them considering they are a pensioner,but if they have refilled the tank three times, could have been secured better (if it wasn't already) - as in the money was there (but maybe not now).

I know someone mentioned fencing off and the fact that the thieves would drill through tank, but I think this is the best option. An expensive initial outlay but chances are they will go after some other poor sod rather than your friend - make sure there is a decent gap between the fence and the tank so that they cannot touch the tank from the right side of the fence. If possible depending on how it could be wired, a PIR light as well might at least act as a deterrent at night (again making sure its behind the fence). Strong lock and chain on the gate to it is a must. About all they can do really, bar banding together with others in the estate and setting up some sort of a neighbourhood watch. A consortium of concerned residents making themselves heard by the local guards might at least bring the odd patrol by for a few weeks and force the thieves out.

Could ya not have a few big drums filled and just add to the tank when needed, keep the drums in the house or something?.

Thats what id do anyway, or have a dog patrolling the garden.
Additionally a decent dog would help against burglaries .

Das Kitty

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Could ya not have a few big drums filled and just add to the tank when needed, keep the drums in the house or something?.

Thats what id do anyway, or have a dog patrolling the garden.
Additionally a decent dog would help against burglaries .

You'd keep drums of kerosene in the house?!

Whoever was stealing the oil would probably steal the dog too.

Das Kitty

Das Kitty wrote: »

You'd keep drums of kerosene in the house?!

Whoever was stealing the oil would probably steal the dog too.

You wouldn't even need to keep it inside, even in a shed.

Unless these lads are also looking for bikes and lawnmowers to rob, I'd guess they'd take an empty tank at facevalue and move on somewhere else.
At least you could secure it in a shed better then the tank.

Padkir

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Could ya not have a few big drums filled and just add to the tank when needed, keep the drums in the house or something?.

Thats what id do anyway, or have a dog patrolling the garden.
Additionally a decent dog would help against burglaries .

You'll pay a fortune for it buying in small drops like that, its dear enough!!
Also, one of the main reasons people have heating oil as opposed to turf is that its so much handier, but wouldnt be if you had to keep adding it to the tank every few days/week, whatever!

Best bet is to ensure any entrances to the property are very awkward to get in, but if this isn't possible, due to back walls, hedges, etc. then something up around the tank is the best job. Also, one of those sensor lights would deter people I would say. If they were quietly trying to sneak in aroun the house and a large halogen light came on, they may think twice before either doing anything or coming back!

dafunk

My oil got robbed over the wknd in salthill, about 300 quits worth. I've no money to refill it now so I'm rightly pissed off. Tempted to do a stakeout for a couple of nights.

JohnCleary

I've the 'Water' and 'Diesel' cap swapped on the aquatic vessel. Anyone who tries to syphon it will get some lovely tap water :pac:

(I have the 'Water' tap locked nicely, though)

dilallio

JohnCleary wrote: »

I've the 'Water' and 'Diesel' cap swapped on the aquatic vessel. Anyone who tries to syphon it will get some lovely tap water :pac:

(I have the 'Water' tap locked nicely, though)

You should put the diesel cap on the sewage drainage outlet