Is it true that...

#15

thebullkf wrote: »

you are being given freedom to choose...

That's the whole point of this thread.
There is no freedom of choice for most people. It's a catholic school or nothing, in most areas of the country.

thebullkf

#15 wrote: »

No, it's an MRBI poll, so it's a representative sample of the adult population. You hardly think it's just IT readers that were surveyed?:eek:

who was surveyed???.... how many? .. its not a reflection of the majority imo.

Secondly, are people supposed to just ignore the murphy report and not let it influence their opinions? I know the truth might bother some people, but it can't be swept under the carpet.

no, i never said that either,but peoples opinions are influenced all the time,especially by association....
eg rise in sales of Kale @ Halloween, Turkey @ Christmas etc

#15

thebullkf wrote: »

funny how that isn't and a newspaper published poll is ???:rolleyes:

pathetic imo.

Can you rephrase? I didn't understand that.

do you have any stats?? people don't go to mass for tradition,they go to practise their faith.

That's my point. Church-goers are practising their faith, therefore the most reliable measurement of the strength of the catholic church is in the number of regular church-goers.
It's a simple enough idea tbf.

thebullkf

#15 wrote: »

That's the whole point of this thread.
There is no freedom of choice for most people. It's a catholic school or nothing, in most areas of the country.

well then move!!.... its very simple,and it comes back to the initial assertion that we are in fact. a catholic country,whereas the majority of people are indeed catholic.

also you have freedom to opt out of religious classes in school.

philologos

#15 wrote: »

Partly. But you are naive if you think they are the only reasons for religious education.
It was also an easy way of securing a steady supply of unquestioning followers. Future customers, to be cynical about it.

I think you're off the mark here #15. Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean that people who actually believe are all "unquestioning".

thebullkf

#15 wrote: »

Can you rephrase? I didn't understand that.

you disregard Baptism figures..... but include figures from a newspaperpublished poll.

That's my point. Church-goers are practising their faith, therefore the most reliable measurement of the strength of the catholic church is in the number of regular church-goers.
It's a simple enough idea tbf.

i agree, do you have stats??

#15

Jakkass wrote: »

I think you're off the mark here #15. Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean that people who actually believe are all "unquestioning".

Admittedly, I had my cynical hat on there. Did not mean to imply that all believers are unquestioning, just that certain authorities might have had that goal in mind for religious education.

I'm not entirely sure I'm an atheist either.:)

I do however, believe in seperation of church and state. I don't think that principle is incompatible with being religious or spiritual.

thebullkf

Jakkass wrote: »

Many parents can't choose at the minute between RCC or secular school.

Irish religion goes beyond Catholicism. I'd include other Irish forms of Protestantism. It's very ritualistic. It's more about going through the motions rather than a thought conviction. It was a realisation I kind of had in my teenage years that made me see this quite clearly.

says you;)-

There is no choice for many parents due to a lack of alternatives. That's the point being made. In other countries there is a better choice. In the UK for example. In other countries like France there is no choice because all schools are secular. I don't really support that either. I support the middle ground of having both.

there's not enough money for existing schools...never mind secular ones.

#15

thebullkf wrote: »

well then move!!.... its very simple,and it comes back to the initial assertion that we are in fact. a catholic country,whereas the majority of people are indeed catholic.

also you have freedom to opt out of religious classes in school.

That's a disgusting attiutude.

Be catholic, or bog off basically.

It's not the 1950s, we have joined the modern world you know?

We're not a catholic country, please stop repeating that lie. We have a majority catholic population, but the state is neutral. It's not catholic.

philologos

#15 does that position mean you support scrapping all faith schools. I'm confused, where exactly do you lie on the issue. Where I am I'm in the middle.

#15

thebullkf wrote: »

you disregard Baptism figures..... but include figures from a newspaperpublished poll.

I give up trying to explain this to you.

i agree, do you have stats??

Yes, some stats.
http://www.studiesirishreview.ie/j/page594

Eoin O’Mahony is Social Researcher at the Council for Research and Development, Irish Bishops’ Conference, Maynooth, Co. Kildare

Mass attendance for Irish Catholics now stands at 63.4% - with 50% attending weekly

Only 50% of catholics (not the whole population even) attend weekly mass, and 5% attend daily.

Insect Overlord

thebullkf wrote: »

well then move!!

Are you being serious? You would tell every parent who doesn't have access to a non-Catholic school to just move? That's one of the least practical solutions you could possibly have suggested. Be realistic if you're going to give solutions, honestly.

thebullkf wrote: »

... its very simple,and it comes back to the initial assertion that we are in fact. a catholic country,whereas the majority of people are indeed catholic.

Are you reading the other posts in this thread properly? Your mis-categorisation of Ireland as a "Catholic country" has already been explained to you. It's just not true.

thebullkf wrote: »

also you have freedom to opt out of religious classes in school.

Parents can opt to have their child not partake in Religious Education classes, that's correct. However, in practicality, it's not that simple. Visual art lessons, music lessons and even English Language frequently integrate their themes with RE (especially around Christmas and for the Communion and Confirmation years). Nearly every class teacher in the country also engages in morning and evening prayers, as well as prayers before/after meals. A school with a religious ethos (i.e. the vast majority of Ireland's schools) will have echoes of that ethos throughout the whole school experience, even if it's not explicitly proselytism.

#15

Jakkass wrote: »

#15 does that position mean you support scrapping all faith schools. I'm confused, where exactly do you lie on the issue. Where I am I'm in the middle.

I support private faith schools and think all state schools should be non-denom. I don't oppose state schools providing religious instruction as long as it is done by members of the faith community outside of state curriculum hours.

However, I am aware this is unrealistic in the Irish context and think your way is a pretty reasonable compromise.

thebullkf

#15 wrote: »

That's a disgusting attiutude.

Be catholic, or bog off basically.

It's not the 1950s, we have joined the modern world you know?

We're not a catholic country, please stop repeating that lie. We have a majority catholic population, but the state is neutral. It's not catholic.

where did i say bog off? i am aware of the year,thanks.

the majority of citizens are catholic, to me that makes it a Catholic country.

I'm not religous,haven't been to mass in years-no interest in religion really.

But i am in a Minority- so i go along to get along. doesn't bother me, as i said earlier its a tiny part of the day.

philologos

thebullkf wrote: »

says you;)-

I'm a Christian. I've a lot of familiarity with churchgoing. I've also seen some churches really encourage a thinking faith which I find really good. I know about the ritualistic mentality that exists around religion. An example of this in my life was my confirmation aged 15 (I didn't really believe or care about God). I grew up in an Anglican church, but read through the Bible when I was 17. It was only then that I thought about why I should believe, and why I should follow Jesus.

A lot of Irish religion doesn't encourage people to think about why they should believe.

thebullkf wrote: »

there's not enough money for existing schools...never mind secular ones.

Simply put, our Government should help to provide for all its citizens including atheists and agnostics. I had the opportunity to go to Church of Ireland schools when I was a kid. I think we should try and make education as best as possible for all, and if that means more choice that's what we should do.

philologos

#15 wrote: »

I support private faith schools and think all state schools should be non-denom. I don't oppose state schools providing religious instruction as long as it is done by members of the faith community outside of state curriculum hours.

However, I am aware this is unrealistic in the Irish context and think your way is a pretty reasonable compromise.

I don't know how successful faith based primary schools are in bringing people up in a certain faith actually.

I think secondary school through university is when people make those decisions.

In my primary school we had minimal teaching about Christianity, and the local minister talk about Jesus for 20 minutes on a Friday morning, and the Lord's prayer at the start of the day. When I was 17 I was so surprised at how ignorant I was of the Bible, or Christian tradition.

In secondary school I began to ask my chaplain questions in R.E class when things arose. We focused mainly on Abrahamic Religions for Leaving Cert. I made my decision to believe in Christianity when I was in 5th year.

In university I've been a part of the Christian Union there and that's where I mostly chat with people about my faith and grow with other people. I'm not sure if it is 100% about schooling.

A long spiel, but I'm just recapping how exactly I gained faith. It was very late anyway. My realisations about Irish religion might be quite crude as well.

#15

thebullkf wrote: »

where did i say bog off?

Here:

well then move!!

That's basically telling people to bog off.

the majority of citizens are catholic, to me that makes it a Catholic country.

Yes, but you are wrong. The constitution does not state that Ireland is a catholic country.

doesn't bother me, as i said earlier its a tiny part of the day.

Except that it's not.

The ethos is not confined to 30 mins a day.

Curriculum time is severely impacted by sacrament preparations. Weeks on end are spent learning prayers, songs, doing religious art, etc.
Your assertion that it is a tiny part of the day is incorrect.

thebullkf

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Are you being serious? You would tell every parent who doesn't have access to a non-Catholic school to just move? That's one of the least practical solutions you could possibly have suggested. Be realistic if you're going to give solutions, honestly.

Honestly, read my posts,
i would ask people who have such a major problem with catholic schools to move where there is a non catholic school. simple really.

Are you reading the other posts in this thread properly? Your mis-categorisation of Ireland as a "Catholic country" has already been explained to you. It's just not true.

no it hasn't- majority of country's citizens are Catholic= Country is regarded as a catholic country.

Ask any foreigner and they'd say it was a catholic country.no

Parents can opt to have their child not partake in Religious Education classes, that's correct. However, in practicality, it's not that simple. Visual art lessons, music lessons and even English Language frequently integrate their themes with RE (especially around Christmas and for the Communion and Confirmation years). Nearly every class teacher in the country also engages in morning and evening prayers, as well as prayers before/after meals. A school with a religious ethos (i.e. the vast majority of Ireland's schools) will have echoes of that ethos throughout the whole school experience, even if it's not explicitly proselytism.

as i said already, if there were a majority looking for secular schools,there would be more.
School is a tiny part of peoples lives....its home life that influences people more.

i honestly believe its irrelevant, all religion is valid-or none is.
therefore i ain't bothered if schools teach mine about a cannibalistic-zombie deity that orders subservance and total obedience..why?

because I instill values in my kids-not 230 mins a week of religious teaching.

I decide whats best,if i have no alternative, i go the school i think will fit my kids needs-regardless of its religious teachings.

#15

Jakkass wrote: »

My realisations about Irish religion might be quite crude as well.

Crude or not, it's pretty accurate IMO.

philologos

thebullkf - Do you think you as a Christian would like to live in an area where the only school you could go to was the local Islamic school? I don't know if I'd be that easy with that. I'd probably rather it be the secular school that was the only choice rather than a faith that I don't believe in.

Step into their shoes for a minute and share a bit of empathy.

thebullkf

#15 wrote: »

Here:


That's basically telling people to bog off.

no its not.

Yes, but you are wrong. The constitution does not state that Ireland is a catholic country.

ffs,now you're using the constitution !!! :rolleyes:

Except that it's not.

The ethos is not confined to 30 mins a day.

Curriculum time is severely impacted by sacrament preparations. Weeks on end are spent learning prayers, songs, doing religious art, etc.
Your assertion that it is a tiny part of the day is incorrect.

how many hours a week are spent in school as against outside??

school takes up approx 190 days a year or something?

so for half a year (give or take)
and 25% of that period the whole school curriculum impacts on people...
i think people are way over reacting.

thebullkf

Jakkass wrote: »

thebullkf - Do you think you as a Christian would like to live in an area where the only school you could go to was the local Islamic school? I don't know if I'd be that easy with that. I'd probably rather it be the secular school that was the only choice rather than a faith that I don't believe in.

Step into their shoes for a minute and share a bit of empathy.

i feel empathy/Sympathy but my point is in an islamic country- christians would probably not be allowed attend, without fully conforming/practicing Islam.
in ireland even though one is restricted to certain schools,,,one is also allowed opt out of such teachings..

Insect Overlord

thebullkf wrote: »

no it hasn't- majority of country's citizens are Catholic= Country is regarded as a catholic country.

Ask any foreigner and they'd say it was a catholic country.no

You would expect a foreigner, who has no direct experience of the country, to define Ireland's religious status? That's just silly. Sure some American tourists still come to Ireland expecting to see leprechauns in the fields. We are a very small island nation on the edge of Europe. A deep understanding of our present culture is the last thing I would expect from a foreigner.

thebullkf wrote: »

as i said already, if there were a majority looking for secular schools,there would be more.

Schools don't just magically appear out of the earth. Getting an appropriate site, securing planning permission, finding a suitable staff and maintaining a school takes more than just demand. It takes a provision of resources, which (until recently) the State should have been able to provide.

thebullkf wrote: »

School is a tiny part of peoples lives....its home life that influences people more.

Ah come on now. You're just trying to wind people up at this stage. Primary school plays an enormous part in the life of a young person.

thebullkf wrote: »

I decide whats best,if i have no alternative, i go the school i think will fit my kids needs-regardless of its religious teachings.

That's great if it works for you. However, insisting that every other parent in the country should follow your example is totally unreasonable.

philologos

In some countries it is illegal to practice. We can't force non-Christians to convert to Christianity. We must engage with people on an intellectual level about their beliefs or lack of them. Allowing the freedom of people to go to school in a school that doesn't teach a religious ethos is important. The problem is that people such as #15 don't respect the right for parents of faith to go to faith schools on an equal level which makes this debate slightly less easy to take part in for someone who is flat out in the middle such as I am.

D4RK ONION

TheBulkf: Please try to be civil when replying to other users. Your tone is not helping the debate at hand. Do not be so dismissive of other users. Consider this your on thread warning as per the charter.

thebullkf

Insect Overlord wrote: »

You would a foreigner, who has no direct experience of the country, to define Ireland's religious status? That's just silly. Sure some American tourists still come to Ireland expecting to see leprechauns in the fields. We are a very small island nation on the edge of Europe. A deep understanding of our present culture is the last thing I would expect from a foreigner.

who mentioned deep understanding??? if one were to ask an american was ireland a catholic country i think most would say it is.

Schools don't just magically appear out of the earth. Getting an appropriate site, securing planning permission, finding a suitable staff and maintaining a school takes more than just demand. It takes a provision of resources, which (until recently) the State should have been able to provide.

i agree, i said as much already.

Ah come on now. You're just trying to wind people up at this stage. Primary school plays an enormous part in the life of a young person.

not winding anyone up,you're opinion of the importance/relevance of religion in primary school is wherewe differ.

That's great if it works for you. However, insisting that every other parent in the country should follow your example is totally unreasonable.

whats unreasonable is you're twisting of my words, i don't expect anything...
i do what i can,when i can. i'm honest,open and strive to do the best for my kids
i'd prefer to send mine to Non denom. schools.... personallyspeaking the religious based schools i have access to are better schools. Fact.

so compromise is king.

thebullkf

D4RK ONION wrote: »

TheBulkf: Please try to be civil when replying to other users. Your tone is not helping the debate at hand. Do not be so dismissive of other users. Consider this your on thread warning as per the charter.

[snip]

if i offended anyone-i apologise. not my intention.

I wish you all a merry xmas-and good evening.:)

#15

Jakkass wrote: »

The problem is that people such as #15 don't respect the right for parents of faith to go to faith schools on an equal level which makes this debate slightly less easy to take part in for someone who is flat out in the middle such as I am.

Hold on now, I think you have got the wrong end of the stick. I have already said that I think your way is quite reasonable, and probably the best solution in the Irish context.

How that translates into not respecting the rights of parents of faith - I'm not sure.

D4RK ONION

Jakkass, in fairness to #15, while he favours total secularism, he does agree that it would be impossible and unfair and would be completely alright with your own suggestion.

D4RK ONION: I don't think they should give up all primary schools, rather secular, Islamic and other alternatives should be provided by the Government alongside the faith school system largely by the RCC, Church of Ireland, Presbyterians and Methodists.

Neither do I, I was only quoting that article to prove the point that catholic education isn't what the majority want. I would favour the Catholic church giving up enough of the schools in an area for the govn./ET school to be able to provide the service that is needed. Ideally, no parent should have to say "I can't get my child into a school who's Ethos I agree with. If that makes sense

philologos

As I see it, we can't find ourselves in a situation where we don't allow choice. Saying all schools must be secular, and that all or a huge majority must be Roman Catholic are the same thing to me. If the problem is there is not enough choice for secular parents, it'd be royally unfair to remove the choice for parents of faith the next. I find that confusing.

#15

Jakkass wrote: »

As I see it, we can't find ourselves in a situation where we don't allow choice. Saying all schools must be secular, and that all or a huge majority must be Roman Catholic are the same thing to me. If the problem is there is not enough choice for secular parents, it'd be royally unfair to remove the choice for parents of faith the next. I find that confusing.

I did say though, that in non-denom schools, I would have no problem with religious communities using school facilities and teaching their faiths after school hours.

I don't mean to deny choice to faith parents, but seperation of church and state is the principle that I am working on.

And, as I have said, your own solution is the most workable.

overmantle

Orizio wrote: »

...to get into an Irish school your child has to be baptised and you have to offer proof to this effect? If it is true, how can someone outside the education system change this discriminatory and archaic practice?

Also, as an agnostic that has no interest in having his children recieve a religious or 'spritiual' education about non-existent Gods, what options do I have regarding primary schools?

I think at this stage the OP's questions have been answered (1. His child does NOT need to be baptised. 2. His best bet in looking for a school is to visit the schools in which he is interested, be they Catholic, ET or whatever. He should then ask how children of various faiths and none are accommodated).

This thread has gone off topic. There is clearly a healthy range of opinions but I do feel that the accommodation and inclusiveness that exists in state schools is not, unfortunately, reflected here and there is a very distinct lack of tolerance, which is unfortunate.

Dare I say, 'Happy Christmas' (or should that be 'Happy Holiday'?) to all and let's hope 2011 will be kind to all, with tolerance, kindness and accommodation of others being the way forward.:)

overmantle

#15 wrote: »

93% of primary schools are catholic ethos. Schools do try their best to be acommodating and inclusive, that's true. But the system itself is nowhere near inclusive. Your claim is bordering on dishonest.

To be fair, #15, you are completely twisting what I said, in an attempt to suit your own purposes. I spoke about the inclusiveness and accommodation that exists in State schools. You then started to speak about 'the system' and claim that my 'claim is bordering on dishonest'. I am familiar with many, many schools, up and down the country and have witnessed this, at first hand. This is the truth, the reality, whether you like it or not. I have no need to be dishonest. I have no hang ups or issues but the bitterness I have seen here from some posters is sad.

overmantle

One final bit of advice to the OP when searching for a school for his child. When visiting the school, be it a Denominational school (Catholic/Church Of Ireland), ET or whatever, the parent should ask about the accommodation and inclusion of children of various faiths and none. This, HOWEVER, is only ONE aspect to be asked about, NOT the ONLY one.

Questions about resources, facilities, extra-curricular activities, the atmosphere in the school, the welcome, the convenience, provision of aftercare (if applicable), the reading materials/schemes used, the extra supports available, the staff and so on and so on. My point is that there are many aspects to determine the suitability of a school, the religious denomination of the school being only ONE aspect, albeit an important one, to some people.

caseyann

Orizio wrote: »

...to get into an Irish school your child has to be baptised and you have to offer proof to this effect? If it is true, how can someone outside the education system change this discriminatory and archaic practice?

Also, as an agnostic that has no interest in having his children recieve a religious or 'spritiual' education about non-existent Gods, what options do I have regarding primary schools?

Utter Bull****.
Your child if on list before any other child,doesnt matter what religion or nationality.First come first serve.Only extra you get is if your parents or siblings went to the school.
But ten out of ten of the times name first come first get in first.Nothing what so ever to do with religion.
You do not need a religion to get into a Irish school.
Now are you meaning Irish speaking school or just Irish schools in general?
If Irish speaking school also no you do not need to be a catholic to get into them.
I am so sick of this bull**** slating of Irish education and schooling.

D4RK ONION

Last warning, if some people can't discuss this calmly and intelligently, I will close this thread.

I know that the OP's question has been answered, but it's an interesting subject and if people want to discuss it that's fine by me. Going in circles somewhat, so I may close it soon anyway.

overmantle

#15 wrote: »

Do you honestly not see any issue with the system as it is? Keeping in mind that 93% of state schools are catholic ethos?

Does that sound inclusive and accomodating to you? A yes/no will do.

Btw, the OP touched on a broader topic than just his/her own children



Ignoring the problems with the system is head-in-the-sand stuff.

I have already agreed with you that schools try their best to be accomodating and inclusive, but that is little consolation to people who don't want to be accomodated in a catholic context.

#15, I spoke only about the inclusiveness and accommodation that exists in schools (regardless of the system that operates in our country). It is YOU were the one who mistakenly spoke about my alleged 'dishonesty' in saying that, by referring to the 'system', to which I was NOT referring. Regardless of the 'system', I was referring to the reality on the ground, with which the OP and other parents could be expected to be met, which is NOT the closed, bible bashing scenario that some would try to portray.
It's possible that the 'system' will change in years to come and I don't have any hang ups about that. The OP, however, has to make a decision in the current situation and the current reality needs to be reflected in these posts, which I have tried to do.
D4rk Onion, as I've already said, the OP's question HAS been answered a long time ago so YES, it is time to close the thread as it has descended into a forum for bitterness and point scoring, which as I've already said, is a far cry from the inclusiveness, accommodation and acceptance that exists in State (Religious) and most other schools, up and down our country (which is NOT the case in various other countries).

caseyann

#15 wrote: »

That makes a complete mockery of faith-ethos schools.

How does it? They dont stop their faith merely because they let someone in who hasnt got same faith.
You have confused catholic religion and catholic Irish schools with fanatics.
I went to all Irish school with catholic religion and had protestants in school with me and also Jewish and 3 muslim kids also black kids and chinese.And that was back in 80's.



The english speaking non religious school up the road from us i found very discriminatory and the pupils were very rude about us speaking Irish and been catholic.

byhookorbycrook

#15, I can't agree that allowing children of a different religion into a faith school is unfair. We have several different faiths-and none- in our school and they enrich ,not harm, our ethos.

#15

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

#15, I can't agree that allowing children of a different religion into a faith school is unfair. We have several different faiths-and none- in our school and they enrich ,not harm, our ethos.

I think I didn't make myself clear, and that my previous post looks like I am advocating discrimination. Just to clarify where I am coming from and what I mean;

60% of the children in our school are not catholic.
30% (approx) of the staff are not catholic, incl. myself.

Our school community is much better because of its diversity, but the catholic ethos is not served by making catholics a minority.

My point is that no one wins in the current set-up.
- Non-catholics pretty much have to attend catholic schools
- Catholics attend catholic schools that are not truly catholic

As I have said, my preference would be for everyone to attend non-faith schools, and leave religious instruction up to parents or members of religious communities.
That's probably a non-starter though, so the next best thing would be to have a more representative school patronage system IMO.

overmantle

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

#15, I can't agree that allowing children of a different religion into a faith school is unfair. We have several different faiths-and none- in our school and they enrich ,not harm, our ethos.

Fully agree with you, byhookorbycrook.

#15, point scoring is of no interest to me. Clearly, it is YOU are the one who seems to have a huge issue with those who do not portray things as you see them. Potential changes in the future are all well and good but the OP, assuming that his child is almost of school going age, asked questions, based on the current situation, not a hypothetical one. We are dealing with the reality here.

#15, I've been misquoted/misrepresented but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it or waste too much time continuing a thread that has been exhausted.

One final thing, #15, is that I've used the word accommodation/accommodating several times but feel at this point that I should point out to you that it is 'accommodation' (and NOT accomodation, as has appeared in your posts). The word has two m's (fact) but then again, maybe that could also be challenged and perhaps in the future, there will be a case to change that to one 'm' but at the moment, the reality is, that it has two m's.

Now D4rk Onion, looking at the posts this afternoon, if this post isn't past its sell by date, I don't know when it will be.

#15

overmantle wrote: »

Fully agree with you, byhookorbycrook.

#15, point scoring is of no interest to me. Clearly, it is YOU are the one who seems to have a huge issue with those who do not portray things as you see them. Potential changes in the future are all well and good but the OP, assuming that his child is almost of school going age, asked questions, based on the current situation, not a hypothetical one. We are dealing with the reality here.

#15, I've been misquoted/misrepresented but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it or waste too much time continuing a thread that has been exhausted.

One final thing, #15, is that I've used the word accommodation/accommodating several times but feel at this point that I should point out to you that it is 'accommodation' (and NOT accomodation, as has appeared in your posts). The word has two m's (fact) but then again, maybe that could also be challenged and perhaps in the future, there will be a case to change that to one 'm' but at the moment, the reality is, that it has two m's.

Now D4rk Onion, looking at the posts this afternoon, if this post isn't past its sell by date, I don't know when it will be.

Ah ffs, that's what you respond with. Pointing out a few spelling typos. And this in a thread where you've made a few typos and grammatical errors yourself.:rolleyes:

I have no idea why you're resorting to personal attacks. I'm not interested in point scoring either.

The fact that you're trying your best (appeals to the mods, personal attacks, etc) to have this discussion closed speaks volumes.

bigbrotherfan

overmantle wrote: »

I think at this stage the OP's questions have been answered (1. His child does NOT need to be baptised. 2. His best bet in looking for a school is to visit the schools in which he is interested, be they Catholic, ET or whatever. He should then ask how children of various faiths and none are accommodated).

This thread has gone off topic. There is clearly a healthy range of opinions but I do feel that the accommodation and inclusiveness that exists in state schools is not, unfortunately, reflected here and there is a very distinct lack of tolerance, which is unfortunate.

Dare I say, 'Happy Christmas' (or should that be 'Happy Holiday'?) to all and let's hope 2011 will be kind to all, with tolerance, kindness and accommodation of others being the way forward.:)[/QUOTE

As a parent, I have to acknowledge the inclusive nature of our schools and overmantle is perfectly correct in what she (or he) is stating. Not much point in ranting about how things could be when Orizio needs to have her (or his) questions answered based on the way things are now (not how some would like them to be).

bigbrotherfan

Orizio wrote: »

...to get into an Irish school your child has to be baptised and you have to offer proof to this effect? If it is true, how can someone outside the education system change this discriminatory and archaic practice?

Also, as an agnostic that has no interest in having his children recieve a religious or 'spritiual' education about non-existent Gods, what options do I have regarding primary schools?

From reading this thread today, I agree that Orizio's two questions have been answered. She/he knows now that a child will definitely not be excluded if not baptised and the options that exist for her/him regarding primary school choices in 2010/11 have been explored. How somebody can say otherwise beats me.

#15

bigbrotherfan wrote: »

As a parent, I have to acknowledge the inclusive nature of our schools and overmantle is perfectly correct in what she (or he) is stating. Not much point in ranting about how things could be when Orizio needs to have her (or his) questions answered based on the way things are now (not how some would like them to be).

I think it's clear that the discussion went beyond the OP, which happens all the time on boards.
It was an interesting discussion too, until overmantle had a hissy fit.

bigbrotherfan

#15 wrote: »

I think it's clear that the discussion went beyond the OP, which happens all the time on boards.
It was an interesting discussion too, until overmantle had a hissy fit.

Can't let that ridiculous claim go unanswered. I don't know any of these posters but reading this thread from start to finish, as I have, everybody and anybody has been challenged by #15, right throughout the thread. It is not overmantle, or caseyann or any of the others who've been throwing hissyfits. #15, I hate saying this but let's call a spade a spade, you are the hissyfitter, if there is any hissfitter here.

Fairdues

bigbrotherfan wrote: »

Can't let that ridiculous claim go unanswered. I don't know any of these posters but reading this thread from start to finish, as I have, everybody and anybody has been challenged by #15, right throughout the thread. It is not overmantle, or caseyann or any of the others who've been throwing hissyfits. #15, I hate saying this but let's call a spade a spade, you are the hissyfitter, if there is any hissfitter here.

I read this earlier today and was struck by the remarkably contrary nature of one poster. I wasn't going to bother posting but on reading the more recent posts, I have to say I think you got it right here bigbrotherfan. Perhaps the contrary one hasn't heard the saying, PEOPLE IN GLASSHOUSES SHOULDN'T THROW STONES, as No.15 has thrown so many stones at so many posters at this stage that as a poster, s/he has lost credibility. I'm surprised this thread hasn't been pulled.

I couldn't see how somebody would call this an "interesting discussion" as it has been littered with one poster contradicting so many other posters that it ceased to be interesting a long time ago.

Toto Wolfcastle

This has gone way way off topic at this stage. As the OP's question has been answered and posters are not just accusing each other of throwing hissy fits I think it has run its course.

Locked.