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Kids living in Uk

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  • 19-12-2010 10:01pm
    #1
    Richyd
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭


    I am gettin desperate now. I am a seperated man who has 2 daughters with my ex wife. She has never been happy letting me see my Girls and every time i took her to court for access she keep saying bad stuff about me to the judge, ( things i am doing to the kids). Its all lies and has been proved lies after the judge had me and the girls interviewed. The last time we were there the judge finally ignored her and granted me access and i aggreed with my ex i would see the girls the following day. I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk. I visited them several times but i got made redundant 2 years ago and she wont lets me see them now. i have no contact with them and desperate to see them. I was always very close to my Girls and miss them awful. Have i any law to access them when they live in the uk. Any advice would be great as i cant afford to visit solicitors at the moment.


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    #2
    Klingon Hamlet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Klingon Hamlet


    Richyd wrote: »
    I am gettin desperate now. I am a seperated man who has 2 daughters with my ex wife. She has never been happy letting me see my Girls and every time i took her to court for access she keep saying bad stuff about me to the judge, ( things i am doing to the kids). Its all lies and has been proved lies after the judge had me and the girls interviewed. The last time we were there the judge finally ignored her and granted me access and i aggreed with my ex i would see the girls the following day. I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk. I visited them several times but i got made redundant 2 years ago and she wont lets me see them now. i have no contact with them and desperate to see them. I was always very close to my Girls and miss them awful. Have i any law to access them when they live in the uk. Any advice would be great as i cant afford to visit solicitors at the moment.

    1. If you cannot afford solicitors, you can get legal aid, goto flac.ie
    2. You had an access order in place, so when your ex ran off with your kids, she breached access, which is treated very seriously.


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    #3
    Richyd
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Richyd


    Yea i know she breached the order but its hard to do anything about it when she lives in the uk. I have an appointment with legal aid but the last time i used them for access i got the thickest solicitor in the country who only wanted to send letter after letter and told me that Fathers have little or no rights.


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    #4
    Klingon Hamlet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Klingon Hamlet


    Richyd wrote: »
    Yea i know she breached the order but its hard to do anything about it when she lives in the uk. I have an appointment with legal aid but the last time i used them for access i got the thickest solicitor in the country who only wanted to send letter after letter and told me that Fathers have little or no rights.

    You can still send a summons for breach of access to her address in UK.


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    #5
    rolly1
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭rolly1


    I'm sorry to hear this Richyd. I would agree with Klingon re the summons for breach of access.

    "I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk"

    Unfortunately you should have gone about child abduction proceedings 2 years ago rather than accepting your ex wife leaving the country with the kids without your consent. I know this is no good to you now but any other person reading this in a similar situation would be well advised to immediately get in contact with the Central Authority as soon as something like this occurs.

    For others who may be worried their children might be abducted this abduction prevention pack is essential reading





    Central Authority
    Department of Justice and Law Reform
    Bishop’s Square
    Redmond’s Hill
    Dublin 2
    Phone: + 353 1 479-0200
    Fax: + 353 1 479-0201
    E-mail: child_abduct_inbox@justice.ie


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    #6
    Richyd
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Richyd


    I did go about it but the foolish solicitor told me i had no law to get as she was trying to make a better life for herself in the uk and was in her rights to move where she wanted.


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    #7
    amiable
    Registered Users Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    rolly1 wrote: »
    I'm sorry to hear this Richyd. I would agree with Klingon re the summons for breach of access.

    "I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk"

    Unfortunately you should have gone about child abduction proceedings 2 years ago rather than accepting your ex wife leaving the country with the kids without your consent. I know this is no good to you now but any other person reading this in a similar situation would be well advised to immediately get in contact with the Central Authority as soon as something like this occurs.

    For others who may be worried their children might be abducted this abduction prevention pack is essential reading





    Central Authority
    Department of Justice and Law Reform
    Bishop’s Square
    Redmond’s Hill
    Dublin 2
    Phone: + 353 1 479-0200
    Fax: + 353 1 479-0201
    E-mail: child_abduct_inbox@justice.ie
    Without knowing the full facts you are calling it child abduction. Fair play


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    #8
    rolly1
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭rolly1


    Richyd wrote: »
    I did go about it but the foolish solicitor told me i had no law to get as she was trying to make a better life for herself in the uk and was in her rights to move where she wanted.

    Sorry to hear that, a lesson for parents out there; get a second opinion if you are at all in doubt.Solicitors, along with their advice, are very much fallible. Better still, in addition to getting legal advice, talk to any of the established parents groups (USPI,USFI,Parental Equality,AMEN) to get their view as well.
    Without knowing the full facts you are calling it child abduction. Fair play

    Enough facts were there to establish child abduction:

    1. Richyd was married to the woman and was therefore legal guardian of his children.

    2. Richyd had just obtained legal access to his children through the court, which was to take place the following day. That following day the mother abducted the kids to England.

    3. Yes it was child abduction because Richyd did not give his consent for the removal of his children to England.

    Your sniping comment does not help anybody.


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    #9
    amiable
    Registered Users Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    rolly1 wrote: »
    Sorry to hear that, a lesson for parents out there; get a second opinion if you are at all in doubt.Solicitors, along with their advice, are very much fallible. Better still, in addition to getting legal advice, talk to any of the established parents groups (USPI,USFI,Parental Equality,AMEN) to get their view as well.



    Enough facts were there to establish child abduction:

    1. Richyd was married to the woman and was therefore legal guardian of his children.

    2. Richyd had just obtained legal access to his children through the court, which was to take place the following day. That following day the mother abducted the kids to England.

    3. Yes it was child abduction because Richyd did not give his consent for the removal of his children to England.

    Your sniping comment does not help anybody.
    Full facts are needed. It wasn't a sniping comment it was a factual comment.


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    #10
    rolly1
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭rolly1


    Would you care to specify exactly what more "full facts" are needed?


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    #11
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    If you have a problem with a post report it, do not get snotty with other posters.
    Ths forum is one which is supportive of parents in many different types of circumstances
    and civil posting is expected.


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    #12
    Richyd
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Richyd


    People people dont get nasty now. I appreciate all the comments posted and any other facts that you may feel relivant i will post, just ask and i will answer.


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    #13
    amiable
    Registered Users Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    Richyd wrote: »
    People people dont get nasty now. I appreciate all the comments posted and any other facts that you may feel relivant i will post, just ask and i will answer.

    Did your ex give you a reason why she went to the UK?


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    #14
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    amiable if a parent comes here looking for support and information we try to help them and not cross examine them, we accept in good faith what they share with us about their difficult situation. If you have any concerns about a thread or poster contact the mods, do not brow beat a poster who is looking for help and support.


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    #15
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    I had thought it was illegal for children to be taken out of the country without the consent of both parents? And I thought this was European law.

    If so, you would have legal avenues in the UK, not just in Ireland.


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    #16
    Richyd
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Richyd


    she met an 18yo guy living in ireland and she moved with him to his home town in uk. She had 2 kids when we met and there father was bothering her she said. she was just a nightmare to be with. I am very happy i dont have to put up with her again now she is living there but i miss my girls and want nothing more than to see them grow and be part of there life. I got an new interview today with the local legal aid to finalise my Divorce and i will reapply for access to the courts knowing she is now set up in the uk. Not sure if things wil go my way or not. Fathers get the rough end of the stick in court in my experience.


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    #17
    rolly1
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭rolly1


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    I had thought it was illegal for children to be taken out of the country without the consent of both parents? And I thought this was European law.

    If so, you would have legal avenues in the UK, not just in Ireland.

    Consent of both parents or a court order overriding consent.

    Unfortunately after the kids have lived in England for so long the chances of securing their return to Ireland under abduction law greatly decreases.

    Richyd, it may still be worth running it by a solicitor who knows the law in this area, but as far as I know the time factor is a major element.


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    #18
    amiable
    Registered Users Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    amiable if a parent comes here looking for support and information we try to help them and not cross examine them, we accept in good faith what they share with us about their difficult situation. If you have any concerns about a thread or poster contact the mods, do not brow beat a poster who is looking for help and support.

    I was not brow beating i asked a sincere question. The Op said feel free to ask any other question to get the facts. So i asked what i thought was a relevant question so we could understand the situation better.


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    #19
    amiable
    Registered Users Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    Richyd wrote: »
    she met an 18yo guy living in ireland and she moved with him to his home town in uk. She had 2 kids when we met and there father was bothering her she said. she was just a nightmare to be with. I am very happy i dont have to put up with her again now she is living there but i miss my girls and want nothing more than to see them grow and be part of there life. I got an new interview today with the local legal aid to finalise my Divorce and i will reapply for access to the courts knowing she is now set up in the uk. Not sure if things wil go my way or not. Fathers get the rough end of the stick in court in my experience.

    I personally think both fathers and mothers can get rough end of the stick but you seem to be getting it here.
    Its easy for me to say sitting here but keep the chin up. You don't deserve whats happened. Try to do what you can for your kids and hopefully something better will happen for you and your kids


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    #20
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Richyd wrote: »
    she met an 18yo guy living in ireland and she moved with him to his home town in uk. She had 2 kids when we met and there father was bothering her she said. she was just a nightmare to be with. I am very happy i dont have to put up with her again now she is living there but i miss my girls and want nothing more than to see them grow and be part of there life. I got an new interview today with the local legal aid to finalise my Divorce and i will reapply for access to the courts knowing she is now set up in the uk. Not sure if things wil go my way or not. Fathers get the rough end of the stick in court in my experience.

    Wait.... so these two kids are not your kids? Im confused..."


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    #21
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    amiable wrote: »
    Without knowing the full facts you are calling it child abduction. Fair play

    If the presented facts are true - court ordered access in Ireland has been circumvented by the Mother moving the children without notice out of the country - then that is abduction.

    In the OP's position, he needs legal advice fast.


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    #22
    Richyd
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Richyd


    She had two children when we met. we got married then we had my 2 girls and then we seperated. how she has shacked up with some young fella and has a kid with him. So she has 5 kids two are mine.


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    #23
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    You need to decide what you want and how much you want it, OP.

    Courts everywhere are loathe enough to remove children from a mother, even less so to split up a family.

    If the mother or any of the kids have UK citizenship, you're in an even worse position of being a foreign parent petitioning.

    You may have to resign yourself to occasional access in Britain, and seek to negotiate having your children visit you in Ireland if you can negotiate that with the mother.

    It's usually preferable to come to an agreement between parents, as court orders are easily ignored, as you have found.

    Best of luck with whatever you do. If you do decide to go legal, I would recommend Hilary Coveney as an expert in the area of cross-border custodial issues.


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    #24
    Richyd
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Richyd


    The only one with uk citizenship is me as i was born in the uk. None of my girls or my ex were born in the uk. all were born in Ireland. I have a meeting on 6th jan with a solicitor and will see what i am entitled to or not entitled to as i would guess. Aint getting my hopes up of seeing them again for a while.


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    #25
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Richyd wrote: »
    The only one with uk citizenship is me as i was born in the uk. None of my girls or my ex were born in the uk. all were born in Ireland. I have a meeting on 6th jan with a solicitor and will see what i am entitled to or not entitled to as i would guess. Aint getting my hopes up of seeing them again for a while.

    Wishing you and your girls the best of luck Richy.


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    #26
    Fittle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭Fittle


    'The last time we were there the judge finally ignored her and granted me access and i aggreed with my ex i would see the girls the following day. I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk.'

    Wait, so within ONE day, she packed up five kids and moved them to the uk to live with an 18yr old?

    Im very confused.

    She wouldn't let you see the kids because you were made redundant?

    Is she working over there? How is she supporting herself and her five kids if he's only 18?

    Can you support the two children that are yours, if you get full custody OP - like what are your plans for them, if you get them returned to Irl?


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    #27
    Richyd
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Richyd


    Basically yea she packed up the 5 kids and hauled them in a small car to the uk. She had a great house in Ireland which i paid to get to decorated for her and the kids including furnishings and kitchen equipment etc. She moved over to the uk with her new guy and lived off his mother for a few months till she got on her feet. Im not broke and have a house and am well able to care for my girls if they were to live with me, cant see that happening though. Im not wanted them to live with me i only want what any father wants and that to be able to see them and spend time with them during holidays. I dont think im asking for much wanting to watch them grow and for them to have there real father around. I also got her a car so the kids could get to school and to differant places. When she moved there i got left with the HP payments for the car and with massive credit union debt for doing the house. i dont mind that too much if i was able to see the girls.


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    #28
    Fittle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭Fittle


    So what do you hope to achieve here OP - you obviously don't want custody of the kids as you say you want them for holidays etc?

    Do you want her to move back here - I don't think that can be achieved as she is now resident in the Uk and living with the dad of her 5th child, who could bring her to court over there to insist that she stays there, with his child.

    How old are your kids OP? Is there any chance she'd allow them to fly over (assisted) for holidays etc?


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    #29
    Klingon Hamlet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Klingon Hamlet


    Here's a solution OP:

    2 of her kids are also yours, and you live in Ireland.

    2 of her kids' father aso lives in Ireland.

    1 of her kids' father used to live in Ireland.

    She and her kids are Irish born and reared.

    Go to court, get your kids back, let the 18 year old be a man instead of running off with your children.

    And don't limit yourself to holidays. You might as well be some visiting uncle or family friend. You're their father. They deserve to be reared by both their parents, whether separated or together.

    Get them back OP.


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    #30
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Different laws for different parts of the UK as far as I'm aware, are we talking England here?


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    #31
    Richyd
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Richyd


    Yea she lives in england. As much as i would love them to live with me i cant see any judge granting that. Iv been over to visit them a few times since they moved over but the lst time was neasr 2 years ago. She told me i could visit them last xmas and i booked ferry and hotel for myself and partner and 4yo son. The day before we were meant to leave she text me and said not to bother that things were best left as they were and she wouldnt let me see them if i came over. Been unemployed i lost 400 euro which was non refundable. That is just the type of person i am dealing with. She uses the kids as a way to hurt me. And no i dont want her back living in ireland. I know it would be easier for me to see the kids but she made my life unbearable when she was here and i cant put up with her here again. Thanks for all the advice as well people. it really helps.


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