Benitez Sacked?

DOC09UNAM

almanu wrote: »

i would personally love rafa to go back to liverpool , i just think some of the cr*p he came out with in press conferences was comical ,the "fact" outburst for one, if LFC fans are honest with them selves they will admit that he signed some donkeys , Voronin , degann ,paletta ,nunez,leto , dossena (did score against united so lfc fans wont think so) and worse of all mark gonzalez.

Every manager signs there fair share of clunkers, and some players just dont adapt to the league, even though they are brilliant strikers, (forlan anyone?)

almanu wrote:

oh and Torres he,s a fantastic player when he isnt injured which seems to be every odd week now.

Well that's just silly talk, he's played 18 games this season, which for a player who was injured going to the world cup, and played, isn't too bad.

almanu wrote:

now before i get the back lash as a united fan ,yeah fergie signed some mules also ,djemba djemba ,kleberson ,forlan ,veron , and worse of all taibi.at least he had some quality to counter act the unbalance.

You're being very harsh on the man tbh, he did sign Alonso, Mascherano, Arbeloa, Aurelio, agger, garcia and Kuyt... aswell as Torres of course.

Whether he got the best out of all them could be debated, but he has signed some pretty decent players.

almanu wrote:

really feel for roy hodgson , quality manager left with a half arsed team , im sure pool fans will be calling for him to be sacked soon , bit sad to see all the "all i want for xmas is rafa" banners up at anfield just because rafa came back to the house he has in liverpool.
i guess if he gets you lot a few wins , he will be the best in the premier league.lol

Roy Hodgson is not a big team manager, and whether they had the best squad in the world or not, he would be the right manager.

I know for sure if he was the one to replace Fergie when he retires (in 2030) I would not be happy.

K-9

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Find me one comment where I said that, or else retract the words you've just put in my mouth?

Hence why it is my quote, not yours.

I quoted you and extended the logic.

You not agree with the logic?

Pique wanted to go to Spain, Alonso wanted to go to Real?

DOC09UNAM

K-9 wrote: »

Hence why it is my quote, not yours.

I quoted you and extended the logic.

You not agree with the logic?

Pique wanted to go to Spain, Alonso wanted to go to Real?

I don't see what Alonso has to do with the Pique conversation tbh.

Pique hasn't come out openly and said that Fergie made him want to leave because he tried to sell him and buy gareth barry, I think Alonso has.

But I'm sure it wasn't only that, I'm sure Alonso wanted to play for Real before he retired, however, I honestly don't care either way, I was talking about Pique.

K-9

almanu wrote: »

i would personally love rafa to go back to liverpool , i just think some of the cr*p he came out with in press conferences was comical ,the "fact" outburst for one, if LFC fans are honest with them selves they will admit that he signed some donkeys , Voronin , degann ,paletta ,nunez,leto , dossena (did score against united so lfc fans wont think so) and worse of all mark gonzalez.

oh and Torres he,s a fantastic player when he isnt injured which seems to be every odd week now.

now before i get the back lash as a united fan ,yeah fergie signed some mules also ,djemba djemba ,kleberson ,forlan ,veron , and worse of all taibi.at least he had some quality to counter act the unbalance.

really feel for roy hodgson , quality manager left with a half arsed team , im sure pool fans will be calling for him to be sacked soon , bit sad to see all the "all i want for xmas is rafa" banners up at anfield just because rafa came back to the house he has in liverpool.
i guess if he gets you lot a few wins , he will be the best in the premier league.lol

SAF isn't a fair comparison. He was given plenty of time.

Indeed, I'd say if the same pressures and publicity was about around in 1991, he wouldn't have lasted. Wenger gets a pass because he was successful in the first 5 years.

Benitez didn't have a bad record. PL was ok and improving until the investment dried up, superb CL record.

One bad season and he was gone. Rafa or not, it was always going to be difficult to keep Alonso and Masch, 2 important cogs of the team, when Real and Barca came calling. Gerrard is coming to the end of his carrer as his Carra, 2 players he used very effectively.

His bad signings up to Summer 08 were usually cheap enough, barring Pennant and Morientes. 2 signings with an inherent risk.

The problem was replacing Alonso was always going to be tough, not helped by Acquillanis injuries obviously.

d22ontour

niallo27 wrote: »

I agree yes, but would you have said it in 2007

Enjoy your beer.

Am not going to wiki it but i believe Alonso had a bad injury which fooked up one of these proclaimed bad seasons,was there ever a season that Barry has had that would paint an illusion that would show he was in the same class as Alonso ? Seriously ?

Question still stands though, no ? Rafa for some reason or other actually thought Barry was a better option than Alonso, no ?

I know all managers make mistakes with buying players but this surpasses buying fook ups, no ?

I despise your club like many others do but when you see a good player, you acknowledge it.This is his biggest fook up in his time with LFC imo and it is monumental so anytime Alonso is mentioned i will reply with...

Gareth fookin Barry...

K-9

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I don't see what Alonso has to do with the Pique conversation tbh.

Pique hasn't come out openly and said that Fergie made him want to leave because he tried to sell him and buy gareth barry, I think Alonso has.

But I'm sure it wasn't only that, I'm sure Alonso wanted to play for Real before he retired, however, I honestly don't care either way, I was talking about Pique.

Well, it's very hard to rate Rafas signings if he can't be compared to others, especially SAF.

What people forget is Rafa signed Alonso so obviously seen the potential. He fell out with him over an incident that shows Rafa expects 100% devotion the the club.

Alonso also was back at Anfield a couple of times last season to watch games so I think this thing is overblown. Masch, Torres, Reina and Carragher have all spoken publicly about he has improved them as players but they know what he is like. A perfectionist.

DOC09UNAM

K-9 wrote: »

Well, it's very hard to rate Rafas signings if he can't be compared to others, especially SAF.

What people forget is Rafa signed Alonso so obviously seen the potential. He fell out with him over an incident that shows Rafa expects 100% devotion the the club.

Alonso also was back at Anfield a couple of times last season to watch games so I think this thing is overblown. Masch, Torres, Reina and Carragher have all spoken publicly about he has improved them as players but they know what he is like. A perfectionist.

Yeah, but when you asked about it, I wasn't comparing him with anyone, I was just commenting on the Pique thing.

I don't think he exactly "forced" him out of the club, but may have made him feel unwanted by trying to sell him.

At the end of the day, none of us really know the full shtory bar Alonso and Benitez.

I will also say that he got the best out of Gerrard and Carragher without a doubt.

K-9

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Yeah, but when you asked about it, I wasn't comparing him with anyone, I was just commenting on the Pique thing.

I don't think he exactly "forced" him out of the club, but may have made him feel unwanted by trying to sell him.

At the end of the day, none of us really know the full shtory bar Alonso and Benitez.

I will also say that he got the best out of Gerrard and Carragher without a doubt.

I know that, was just carrying on the comparison in what is a thread about Rafa after all! I think it's a fair comparison. I know fair comparisons make things more oblique and nuanced, not as simple as some would like about Rafa. He is a complex character after all.

Torres also acknowledged his influence, something Roy can't seem to replicate or grasp at all. People for get he was seen as risky. Eto'o as well so it carries, though only given 6 months.

Dues Bellator

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Every manager signs there fair share of clunkers, and some players just dont adapt to the league, even though they are brilliant strikers, (forlan anyone?)


ellW that's just silly talk, he's played 18 games this season, which for a player who was injured going to the world cup, and played, isn't too bad.



You're being very harsh on the man tbh, he did sign Alonso, Mascherano, Arbeloa, Aurelio, agger, garcia and Kuyt... aswell as Torres of course.

Whether he got the best out of all them could be debated, but he has signed some pretty decent players.


Roy Hodgson is not a big team manager, and whether they had the best squad in the world or not, he would be the right manager.

I know for sure if he was the one to replace Fergie when he retires (in 2030) I would not be happy.

exactly how many of the 18 games did he last 90 mins , not that many me thinks.

DOC09UNAM

almanu wrote: »

exactly how many of the 18 games did he last 90 mins , not that many me thinks.

I fail to see your point, he got injured, he recovered, he is regaining fitness and form, what is the point you are trying to make?

Jazzy

rafa > the muppet

Dues Bellator

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I fail to see your point, he got injured, he recovered, he is regaining fitness and form, what is the point you are trying to make?

the point im trying to make is quite simple , how can he be regarded as world class , when he cant even get tru a full game , its also not just this season he,s injury prone ,a world class player is one who can play week in week out, dont get me wrong here , i think he,s a good player when he,s fit, but if your honest with your self thats not very often, happy xmas.

blinding

Anyway after his failure at Inter it will be interesting to see what calibre of club comes in for Benitez ?

x in the city

blinding wrote: »

Anyway after his failure at Inter it will be interesting to see what calibre of club comes in for Benitez ?

Wycombe Wanderers.......!

:cool:

rossie1977

blinding wrote: »

Anyway after his failure at Inter it will be interesting to see what calibre of club comes in for Benitez ?

the last high profile manager to be sacked by Moratti after a short stint at inter was Marcello Lippi, he did ok after

eagle eye

rossie1977 wrote: »

the last high profile manager to be sacked by Moratti after a short stint at inter was Marcello Lippi, he did ok after

What do you call a short stint? Lippi spent more than a full season at Inter.

Yakult

almanu wrote: »

really feel for roy hodgson , quality manager left with a half arsed team , im sure pool fans will be calling for him to be sacked soon , bit sad to see all the "all i want for xmas is rafa" banners up at anfield just because rafa came back to the house he has in liverpool.
i guess if he gets you lot a few wins , he will be the best in the premier league.lol

No, an average manager left with a good team. And fans have been calling for him to be sacked months ago! But he will be gone next summer so it doesnt really matter.

I agree with you about the Rafa banners tho, they are stupid but your always going to have people who are blind to the facts thinking it would be a great idea to bring him back. They obviously dont want the club moving forward.

niallo27

R_H_C_P wrote: »

No, an average manager left with a good team. And fans have been calling for him to be sacked months ago! But he will be gone next summer so it doesnt really matter.

I agree with you about the Rafa banners tho, they are stupid but your always going to have people who are blind to the facts thinking it would be a great idea to bring him back. They obviously dont want the club moving forward.

What facts are people blind to, the club was moving forward under rafa. Gillete and hicks stoped the club moving forward

DOC09UNAM

almanu wrote: »

the point im trying to make is quite simple , how can he be regarded as world class , when he cant even get tru a full game , its also not just this season he,s injury prone ,a world class player is one who can play week in week out, dont get me wrong here , i think he,s a good player when he,s fit, but if your honest with your self thats not very often, happy xmas.

No offense mate, but you are talking complete shíte.

Torres is a world class striker.

Dues Bellator

none taken , i just wouldnt be happy with sick note in my team .you will see what i mean in the coming months.

the untitled user

niallo27 wrote: »

What facts are people blind to, the club was moving forward under rafa.

It's debateable though, Liverpool finished 2nd once under Houllier too.

One could also argue that under Rafa's tenure Liverpool lost much more ground in terms of their commercial brand. Now Parry is the most culpable figure here, but let's not forget the impact on field performances have in terms of general revenue growth. Rafa's conservative style did not endear many neutrals to them.

DOC09UNAM

almanu wrote: »

none taken , if you read my op maybe you might understand what im talking about.

" and Torres he,s a fantastic player when he isnt injured which seems to be every odd week now".is what i said.

Torres is a fantstic striker.i never said he wasnt , just a pity he wasnt crocked every other week.you seem to think that im slagging torres off as a below par striker , thats not what i said.

You said he wasn't world class.

Which he is.

It pained me to read your posts once, I don't think I could go back for more.

Happy christmas to yourself.

niallo27

the untitled user wrote: »

It's debateable though, Liverpool finished 2nd once under Houllier too.

One could also argue that under Rafa's tenure Liverpool lost much more ground in terms of their commercial brand. Now Parry is the most culpable figure here, but let's not forget the impact on field performances have in terms of general revenue growth. Rafa's conservative style did not endear many neutrals to them.

Being in the later stages of the cl nearly every year was excellent for the comercial brand, torres is one of the highest selling jerseys in the world

the untitled user

niallo27 wrote: »

Being in the later stages of the cl nearly every year was excellent for the comercial brand, torres is one of the highest selling jerseys in the world

Yeah, nevermind, I was wrong. Looking at Swiss Ramble's figures the brand grew much more in that period than I realised.

x in the city

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

No offense mate, but you are talking complete shíte.

Torres is a world class striker.

On recent performances, and I mean for most of this year he can hardly be consider as world class.

Since he has been crocked with injuries he has not regained his goal scoring ability

DOC09UNAM

x in the city wrote: »

On recent performances, and I mean for most of this year he can hardly be consider as world class.

Since he has been crocked with injuries he has not regained his goal scoring ability

I guess that means Wayne Rooney is shít too.

If Messi was injured for a year, and was kept out of 70% of his games, and didn't play well in his other 30% of the games, that wouldn't stop him being world class, he would just be going through a bad patch of form.

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

~Rebel~

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I guess that means Wayne Rooney is shít too.

If Messi was injured for a year, and was kept out of 70% of his games, and didn't play well in his other 30% of the games, that wouldn't stop him being world class, he would just be going through a bad patch of form.

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

Don't forget Kaka!

It's been a bad time over the last year for some of the best players in the world being injured/out of form actually.

x in the city

Kak who......

he hasnt scored a goal for a few years it seemed

niallo27

x in the city wrote: »

Kak who......

he hasnt scored a goal for a few years it seemed

Don't forget about the yak

he hasn't scored for years either

x in the city

niallo27 wrote: »

Don't forget about the yak

he hasn't scored for years either

I know yak is $hit and I wont hide it, he missed a beautiful open goal from 5 inches in the world cup, says it all.

Yakult

niallo27 wrote: »

What facts are people blind to, the club was moving forward under rafa. Gillete and hicks stoped the club moving forward

Before we start I thought Rafa was a great manager and still do. He just needs to stay out of action for a while.

But I dont call 7th moving forward with nearly the same team that finished 2nd the year before.. Blame G&H all you want but Rafa had a good team and 20m to spend, which he spent on Aqua who was seriously injured :rolleyes:

What changed?

Blaming G&H soley for that season isnt acceptable, at the end of the day those two goons werent coaching the team.

Saying all of that tho, I would still prefere Rafa over Hodgson.
New owners, new start n'all of that!

rossie1977

the untitled user wrote: »

It's debateable though, Liverpool finished 2nd once under Houllier too.

yes and no, phil thompson deserves a huge amount of credit for that season, he managed the team from october till march and signed up anelka who turned out to be a key figure, houlliers better judgment let him go and bought diouf instead

Rafa's conservative style did not endear many neutrals to them.

nah mourinhos conservative style has done nothing to dampen neutrals love for him

x in the city

these rafa threads are timeless

i can imagine when i am 85 people still harping on about him.

Dues Bellator

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

You said he wasn't world class.

Which he is.

It pained me to read your posts once, I don't think I could go back for more.

Happy christmas to yourself.

oh god . you love torres , fine , i think hes injury prone , ok end of discussion .

x in the city

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2010/12/where_next_for_benitez.html

what others think of rafa..

lol some guy saying he wouldnt want rafa in charge of a sunday league side

CorkMan

niallo27 wrote: »

Don't forget about the yak

he hasn't scored for years either

Actually he got 9 goals in season 09-10.

But at the end of 09/10 season, instead of getting surgery he went on holiday. He only got surgery just before the start of the season so he won't be back till next month.

DOC09UNAM

almanu wrote: »

oh god . you love torres , fine , i think hes injury prone , ok end of discussion .

End of what discussion?

You haven't really been part of the discussion, you've just been saying the same things over and over again without backing them up, and then just backing off when challenged on them.

Dues Bellator

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

End of what discussion?

You haven't really been part of the discussion, you've just been saying the same things over and over again without backing them up, and then just backing off when challenged on them.

says you , you just dont like it when people share there views that just happen to be different to yours , torres is a good player in an average team, thats my view , plus hes injured all the time ,
im not alone here either .


Fernando Torres, Liverpool

The talented Spanish striker may have bagged 51 goals in 75 league games for the Merseyside club, but he only managed 20 top-flight starts last season, and only 16 during this campaign.

Liverpool could arguably have won the Premier League last season with an ever-present Torres, but the man who only missed seven games in his last four seasons at Atletico Madrid clearly does not like the cold winters in Britain.

But look on the bright side—when he plays, he usually scores.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/361846-torres-and-van-persie-amongst-12-most-injury-prone-premier-league-stars

you do understand the definition of a discussion dont you .

everdead.ie

almanu wrote: »

says you , you just dont like it when people share there views that just happen to be different to yours , torres is a good player in an average team, thats my view , plus hes injured all the time ,
im not alone here either .


Fernando Torres, Liverpool

The talented Spanish striker may have bagged 51 goals in 75 league games for the Merseyside club, but he only managed 20 top-flight starts last season, and only 16 during this campaign.

Liverpool could arguably have won the Premier League last season with an ever-present Torres, but the man who only missed seven games in his last four seasons at Atletico Madrid clearly does not like the cold winters in Britain.

But look on the bright side—when he plays, he usually scores.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/361846-torres-and-van-persie-amongst-12-most-injury-prone-premier-league-stars

you do understand the definition of a discussion dont you .

If he's played 16 league games this season and they have played 18 he missed one because of the birth of his child that's a pretty good return although he has a relatively poor goal return for the classy striker he is.

K-9

everdead.ie wrote: »

If he's played 16 league games this season and they have played 18 he missed one because of the birth of his child that's a pretty good return although he has a relatively poor goal return for the classy striker he is.

Well, it's clear that the tactics don't suit Torres. Even last season he still scored a decent amount of goals, despite injuries. Of course that can't be down to Rafa gone, has to be because he's injured and a crock! Couldn't be giving Rafa some credit now.

DOC09UNAM

K-9 wrote: »

Well, it's clear that the tactics don't suit Torres. Even last season he still scored a decent amount of goals, despite injuries. Of course that can't be down to Rafa gone, has to be because he's injured and a crock! Couldn't be giving Rafa some credit now.

You get very defensive of Rafa don't you?

Even though everdead.ie never gave a reason why, he just stated a fact.

Why do you turn everything into an argument about Rafa?

K-9

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

You get very defensive of Rafa don't you?

Even though everdead.ie never gave a reason why, he just stated a fact.

Why do you turn everything into an argument about Rafa?

Nope, the reason Torres is poor this season is largely down to change in tactics, just stating it.

Don't understand the fascination with him by opposing fans at all.

The Muppet

There is also still a feeling inside Anfield, voiced by Hodgson although aggressively challenged by his predecessor, that Liverpool had been left with an environment overpopulated by poor players and expensive Benitez failures.

This is rafa's legacy, in time even the most die hard Rafaite's will stop blaming everyone else and realise this to be the truth.

monkey9

The Muppet wrote: »

This is rafa's legacy, in time even the most die hard Rafaite's will stop blaming everyone else and realise this to be the truth.

Rafa's legacy is a 5th European Cup for the club, a Super Cup, an FA Cup and many many memorable Champions League nights while taking us closer to a league title since the last time we won it and breaking club records.

For someone who thinks Rafa is a poor manager and was bad for Liverpool, you go on about him a lot. You almost protest too much.

The Muppet

monkey9 wrote: »

Rafa's legacy is a 5th European Cup for the club, a Super Cup, an FA Cup and many many memorable Champions League nights while taking us closer to a league title since the last time we won it and breaking club records.

For someone who thinks Rafa is a poor manager and was bad for Liverpool, you go on about him a lot. You almost protest too much.

Ged deserves a lot of the credit for those achievements plus I hate to have to tell you but he finished 2nd in the league as well.


The teams Rafa built won nothing, a CL final and 2nd in the prem was the height of their achievement.

Is there some quota in force regarding the number of posts that can be made about Rafa?

Dues Bellator

wernt lfc 3-0 down at half time then milan decided to switch off for some unknown italian reason, got a bit lucky if you ask me , plus club world championship give me a break . rafa theres a job going at cobh ramblers , no offence cobh.

LuckyLloyd

monkey9 wrote: »

Rafa's legacy is a 5th European Cup for the club, a Super Cup, an FA Cup and many many memorable Champions League nights while taking us closer to a league title since the last time we won it and breaking club records.

For someone who thinks Rafa is a poor manager and was bad for Liverpool, you go on about him a lot. You almost protest too much.

To put it another way: we'll be waiting a long time for a five year stretch of competitive relevancy that rivals 2004 - 2009.

Going forward there will also be very few managers who put together a trophy haul over a five year stretch that rival his accomplishments between 2001 - 2006.

---

What's done is done. Rafael Benitez is now a multi - millionaire, and ranks up there amongst currently active managers in terms of the medals he has won. He's a winner. What he needs to do now is take a break for six months or more, re charge the batteries and reflect. Before eventually returning to a different type of challenge and proving himself all over again.

Inter are left with an ageing (but still immensely talented) squad, a frightening balance sheet, and a young, unproven manager in Leonardo. Their expectation for the following few years lies somewhere between their abject performance of this season thus far and the extraordinary feats of 2009 / 10.

Liverpool require significant rebuilding (of both squad AND stadium), managerial change and a recalibration of medium term goals. Thankfully they have new owners who are financially able with a strong track record of sporting competence. It's a long road back to the level we enjoyed under Benitez, but I'm sure we'll get there eventually.

---

The rest is hate, stupidity or misinformation.

The Muppet

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's a long road back to the level we enjoyed under Benitez, but I'm sure we'll get there eventually.

---

I don't think it will take you that long to achieve 7th again.

BTW rafa won nothing since 2006 apart for the world club championship with another managers team. Note the similarity.

The rest is bull**** and blind fanaticism which ignores the facts.

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

BTW rafa won nothing since 2006 apart for the world club championship with another managers team. Note the similarity.

Yeah, when he wins something, its always with somebody elses team apparently.

The Muppet

K-9 wrote: »

Yeah, when he wins something, its always with somebody elses team apparently.

I agree with you, it does appear that way.