Benitez Sacked?

Iago

Let's not be getting personal in this thread now, stick to discussing the topic and if you want to discuss the merits or issues with his management then do so with facts rather than one liner "yeah he's shit" "no he's deadly" posts that don't add anything to the forum please

BERBA

Iago wrote: »

So he's only the 2nd best manager in the world then?

Yeah, probably should look to take over at Darlington or something next.

he's the same manager who last season took torres off at brum when they badly needed a win and stevie g in the backround shaking his head when torres was going off....hhhhhmmmm

Otis Driftwood

Poor oul Rafa,nice few million for gettin the chop from Liverpool.According to SSN gone from Inter which if true will mean an even heftier pay off.Probably up on 15 million for gettin sacked twice in less than a year,should help soften the blow for the tubby git.Also, holiday home in Liverpool.Lol.

elius

Iago wrote: »

So he's only the 2nd best manager in the world then?

Yeah, probably should look to take over at Darlington or something next.

Trim Celtic more like

MR NINE

BERBA wrote: »

he's the same manager who last season took torres off at brum when they badly needed a win and stevie g in the backround shaking his head when torres was going off....hhhhhmmmm

You never see a player disagree with a substitution before?

Also, if you'd been watching the game you'd have noticed that

a) we improved when N'Gog replaced Torres

b) Torres was carrying an injury and an ice pack was immediately placed on his knee once he came off

Mister men

nedtheshed wrote: »

Poor oul Rafa,nice few million for gettin the chop from Liverpool.According to SSN gone from Inter which if true will mean an even heftier pay off.Probably up on 15 million for gettin sacked twice in less than a year,should help soften the blow for the tubby git.Also, holiday home in Liverpool.Lol.

We won't mention the fact he gave most of the LFC payoff to charitys in the Liverpool area. That would'nt fit the xenophobic image would it.

Iago

BERBA wrote: »

he's the same manager who last season took torres off at brum when they badly needed a win and stevie g in the backround shaking his head when torres was going off....hhhhhmmmm

He's the same manager who's won

1 European Cup (and 1 runner-up)
2 La Liga titles
1 UEFA Cup
1 FA Cup
1 UEFA Super Cup
2 UEFA Manager of the Year awards


hhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm

mike65

Sky Sport News - never wrong for long

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/dec/21/rafael-benitez-internazionale-massimo-moratti

"At this moment, unless I am mistaken, Benítez is the manager of Inter," said Moratti upon leaving a meeting with the team's technical director Marco Branca. "I have read about supposed contact with other managers [to succeed Benítez], but the club has not been in contact with anyone."

Iago, we'll have no facts here! This thread is for bile cack.

MR NINE

Iago wrote: »

He's the same manager who's won

1 European Cup (and 1 runner-up)
2 La Liga titles
1 UEFA Cup
1 FA Cup
1 UEFA Super Cup
2 UEFA Manager of the Year awards


hhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm

But don't you realise one off substitute decisions are what define a managers career.

tommyhaas

x in the city wrote: »

Serious, what people think a big team like real would hire rafa

He is an epic disaster of a manager...

Really, real Madrid gets rafa...

LoL etc.

As i said he is useless and has as good man management skills of players as a King Charles spaniel.

He is vastly overrated, so much so that some deluded people think he should manage real Madrid

And no, this has nothing to do with him managing pool, i just never rated him at all, found him arrogant, talking nonsense at post match interviews, several things, and none worth liking.

I think he is finally been found out, so to rafa

hasta le pasta baby....

There's so much wrong with what you're saying, that I dont know where to start

Firstly, while Im not Rafa's biggest fan, I dont think you can refer to a manager that has one La Liga twice and the champions lge as 'an epic disaster of a manager'

Secondly, what makes you think Real wouldnt hire him. I wouldnt rule out Real replacing Mourinho with Zidane next week, it would be ridiculous but isint that generally the Real way? They sacked Pellegrini after he got a club record number of points in the league, they hired Juande Ramos after his Spurs disaster, the list goes on. Logic rarely seems to come into it

Thirdly, you think he's finally been found out? What, in the same way Sam Allardyce and Chris Hughton were found out this season? Im assuming your one of these people who after a few losses immediately want the manager out. Rafa's only been at Inter a wet day, any manager needs time at a club to get the team playing his way, it rarely happens overnight. That coupled with the fact that Inter had an extraordinary season last year, probably over achieved and very little money to spend when Rafa came havent helped. Injuries played a part also. But to sack him at this stage is not giving him a fair shot at it IMO. He didnt start his first season too well at Liverpool either. But I dont see how you have concluded that he has been found out?

Fowler87

elius wrote: »

and has yet to Nurse a talent...

Fernando Torres

ilovelamp2000

MR NINE wrote: »

You never see a player disagree with a substitution before?

Also, if you'd been watching the game you'd have noticed that

a) we improved when N'Gog replaced Torres

b) Torres was carrying an injury and an ice pack was immediately placed on his knee once he came off

Torres played 86 minutes of a UEFA cup game about three or four days later and it was confirmed by Benitez that there was no injury after the Birmingham game.

And we did not win that game, the substitution didn't work.

x in the city

willowthewisp wrote: »

Seems nice and relaxed outside his house.
Wonder what his next move is.

if you were getting your second six figure+ severance pay in 6 months you would be quite relaxed also id say...

as the other poster said, the mind boggles how this guy has creamed his bank account with utter crap management over the last year in particular

ilovelamp2000

Mister men wrote: »

We won't mention the fact he gave most of the LFC payoff to charitys in the Liverpool area. That would'nt fit the xenophobic image would it.

Proof please ?

Otis Driftwood

Mister men wrote: »

We won't mention the fact he gave most of the LFC payoff to charitys in the Liverpool area. That would'nt fit the xenophobic image would it.

Wasnt aware of that,hardly xenophobic though.FWIW,I dont particularly dislike him,he has given me more chuckles over the last couple of seasons than most,not least for his Mr Ferguson meltdown.He is back in the UK and apparantly has re-enrolled his kids in school in Liverpool.What odds for him being the next West Ham manager?

jesus_thats_gre

BERBA wrote: »

he's the same manager who last season took torres off at brum when they badly needed a win and stevie g in the backround shaking his head when torres was going off....hhhhhmmmm

Only someone like you could reduce someones whole career down to an event that was only made significant because of the expression on Gerrard's face and the subsequent fuss that the media made about it. Only you would conveniently ignore that Torres wasn't fit to play in a few games after that match as a direct consequence of the injury picked up in that match.

I really wonder what goes through peoples head sometimes.

He is obviously a talented manager. Some people think that he is worse or better than being talented.

Someone who won two league titles in Spain with a team other than Barca or Madrid and also won a Champions League with Liverpool just can't be a bad manager.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

BERBA

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Only someone like you could reduce someones whole career down to an event that was only made significant because of the expression on Gerrard's face and the subsequent fuss that the media made about it.

Liverpool still had an outside chance of top 4 at the time , i think that was significant. I'm not complaining though coz we get to play AC Milan next Feb , Liverpool thanks to good ol rafa get to play , sparta prague is it? and that is completely down to rafa.

x in the city

tommyhaas wrote: »

There's so much wrong with what you're saying, that I dont know where to start

Firstly, while Im not Rafa's biggest fan, I dont think you can refer to a manager that has one La Liga twice and the champions lge as 'an epic disaster of a manager'

Secondly, what makes you think Real wouldnt hire him. I wouldnt rule out Real replacing Mourinho with Zidane next week, it would be ridiculous but isint that generally the Real way? They sacked Pellegrini after he got a club record number of points in the league, they hired Juande Ramos after his Spurs disaster, the list goes on. Logic rarely seems to come into it

Thirdly, you think he's finally been found out? What, in the same way Sam Allardyce and Chris Hughton were found out this season? Im assuming your one of these people who after a few losses immediately want the manager out. Rafa's only been at Inter a wet day, any manager needs time at a club to get the team playing his way, it rarely happens overnight. That coupled with the fact that Inter had an extraordinary season last year, probably over achieved and very little money to spend when Rafa came havent helped. Injuries played a part also. But to sack him at this stage is not giving him a fair shot at it IMO. He didnt start his first season too well at Liverpool either. But I dont see how you have concluded that he has been found out?

Stick to the tennis...;)

What he did win was eons ago, most of this discussion is to do with the last few years, culminating in him inevitably getting sacked from his second job inside 6 months.

No players take him serious now, and he can’t manage for cack, and real Madrid would want to be run by the leader of Omicron Persei 8 to sign him as a manager

And fwiw, the raffa haters are not haters, we are just speaking out...

Ask Eamon 'I lived until 60 years babyyyy' Dunphy what he thinks of raffa...

I think he would get banned from here with his thoughts.. :pac:

elius

Fowler87 wrote: »

Fernando Torres

Was already a star player in his own right at A Madrid imho defo wasnt nursed buy rafa try again...

jesus_thats_gre

BERBA wrote: »

Liverpool still had an outside chance of top 4 at the time , i think that was significant. I'm not complaining though coz we get to play AC Milan next Feb , Liverpool thanks to good ol rafa get to play , sparta prague is it? and that is completely down to rafa.

You are a complete and utter spacer. You seriously remind me of what I was like with my friends when I was 12..

Will you just calm down and try to have a reasonable discussion on the subject - for a change!!!

x in the city

Fowler87 wrote: »

Fernando Torres

paying 30 million or so for a player and calling it nursing talent...

rrrrright

some of the stuff on here...

BERBA

elius wrote: »

Was already a star player in his own right at A Madrid imho defo wasnt nursed buy rafa try again...

spot on with torres he was a proven player when he joined the pool ,

look at the way rafa nursed aqualani , he didn't

he bought him for 20m and sat him on the bench for the season:eek:

jesus_thats_gre

x in the city wrote: »

paying 30 million or so for a player and calling it nursing talent...

rrrrright

some of the stuff on here...

I know, the hyperbole used by some posters is quite amazing.

It would be so much easier to have a reasoned discussion on the subject if poster stuck to facts, wouldn't it?

BERBA

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You are a complete and utter spacer. You seriously remind me of what I was like with my friends when I was 12..

Will you just calm down and try to have a reasonable discussion on the subject - for a change!!!

attack the post mate not the poster

redzerdrog

x in the city wrote: »

paying 30 million or so for a player and calling it nursing talent...

rrrrright

some of the stuff on here...

some stuff here getting 20million or so and 30 million or so mixed up. I am sure it was just a misclick though:rolleyes:

godtabh

Big meeting in inter offices tonight. Lenardo being lineded up so it seems

niallo27

x in the city wrote: »

paying 30 million or so for a player and calling it nursing talent...

rrrrright

some of the stuff on here...

And you wonder why everton fans are called bitter

redzerdrog

niallo27 wrote: »

And you wonder why everton fans are called bitter

To be honest a few of my mates are big everton fans and would actually be embarressed by this guy. Every club has its few idiots tbh

niallo27

BERBA wrote: »

attack the post mate not the poster

He is saying you should try put in a few reasonable posts as well not just wind ups the whole time, your coming across as a bit of a knob

jesus_thats_gre

BERBA wrote: »

attack the post mate not the poster

That is the rule alright and I try to stick to it but you really do have to wonder what you are trying to achieve. Fair enough, you have an opinion on the the subject. Fair enough, you have an extreme opinion on the subject.

It would be fine if you just left it at that but you seem to have an amazing ability to portray yourself as a complete and utter cretin. It's funny to read sometimes and it gets some great reactions but it has got to the stage now where I am starting to believe that your posts are serious and are not attempts to troll.

It probably appears that I am being a prick here but do you not wonder why a significant portion of what you post is treated with such contempt?

IvySlayer

godtabh wrote: »

Big meeting in inter offices tonight. Lenardo being lineded up so it seems

Did he leave AC or was he sacked? How did he do overall with them?

jesus_thats_gre

IvySlayer wrote: »

Did he leave AC or was he sacked? How did he do overall with them?

Pretty sure that he was sacked.

They are something like 8 points better today than they were at the same stage of last season.

They finished 12 points off the lead, in third, last season. 10 points, in third again, the previous season.

Pinturicchio

Leonardo did quite well but fell out with those in power at Milan in the end.

jesus_thats_gre

Pinturicchio wrote: »

Leonardo did quite well but fell out with those in power at Milan in the end.

Something about refusing to play 4-4-2, wasn't it?

K-9

G & H ruined Liverpool, not Rafa. Rafa was doing well before they came and for the 2 seasons after.

As for the usual suspects, as Churchill said:

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

That 4-1 hammering still rankles.

the untitled user

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Something about refusing to play 4-4-2, wasn't it?

Wouldn't surprise me, Berlesconi is famous for insisting his managers play with two strikers. That and wanting to pick the team for the big matches.

ilovelamp2000

I genuinely don't know how anyone can really accurately judge a managers ability or talent. If there was a pie-chart breakdown of things needed to win a trophy it would definitely be one of the smaller portions, after a high wage bill, ability to increase the wage bill, money to spend on transfers, a good squad and good luck.

The other problem for me is that i don't believe any man succeeds on his own, you need at minimum a good right hand man at all times and possibly even a good team of people around you. So in essence there are a huge amount of variables to take into account when it comes to judging a manager with anything remotely like accuracy. A simple list of trophies is insufficient and often misleading.

I don't watch La Liga so I can't comment on his time there but I have watched his work closely at Liverpool. And my opinion of him is that he's a good coach and a good defensively orientated tactician albeit one that has moments of madness - Kewell starting the CL final in 2005, Crouch and Voronin on the wings against Reading both immediately spring to mind.

I thought if he was confined to that role, like he was at Valencia, he would succeed again but it looks like I'm wrong on that front too. Because for me it was everything else that he got wrong at Liverpool and his ego and vindictiveness cost the club some great coaches and ultimately some players too.

The early success seemed to go to his head, and he soon fell out with the team of coaches that he was successful with - most significantly Pako Ayesteran. We saw huge backroom changes and with it we saw a gradual increase in bad decision making at the club (most notably with transfers) mainly because as one former coach (Alex Miller) put it he surrounded himself with yes men.

From 04 right up to now Liverpool have steadily increased the wage bill, from around 60-65m right up to 120m at latest count. Our transfer spending was quite high (the figures given in evidence for net spend during the H&G era in the High Court case is a lot higher than most people think -£139m), only outdone by Chelsea and Man City during the Benitez era, albeit the ability to have positive net spends disappeared into thin air in 2008. And it was around that time that we had lost some of the coaching staff too. If, as some people say he is a great manager I think he would have been able to keep us in the top four even without a positive net spend from there on out. After all Wenger has managed it with a negative net spend over the last decade.

So essentially I think at the beginning we saw a combination of luck, spending, good decisions with personnel both on the pitch and in the backroom and we got success.

Benitez then began with the political battles and really you've got to hand it to him this was where he excelled at Liverpool. He regularly threatened to quit, so in preperation for calling his bluff the Yanks started looking around at replacements. Gillett knew Klinsmann so he was on the horizon and Parry was dispatched to discuss the job with him. That was the beginning of the end of Parry with Rafa. Rafa later used Agger and Kuyt (and the willing press) as pawns against Parry and asked that they hold off signing their deals until he had his own position sorted (Kuyt actually verified this in a subsequent interview). That and a strong fan backing was used as leverage against the Yanks in his contract talks which resulted in Parry getting the boot and Rafa getting his gold plated 5 year deal.

Unfortunately it also made some divisions in the squad (and fans)- most notably with Carragher. And really the footballing side of things began to unravel not too long after. A succession of bad transfer windows, and a squad seemingly playing with little or no motivation or spirit led to our downfall. The reason for the lack of net spend was also a great piece of Benitez spin, and if anyone cared to ever look at the accounts they'd realise the web he spun. The Yanks actually put 140m into the club, and took out 111m in interest payments , that is a 29m positive investment yet absolutely everyone blames the reason on the lack of a spend on the interest payments. And it actually doesn't stack up.

I'm actually getting tired of this but ultimately when the time came that we couldn't outspend others or rely on luck we were left relying on Benitez's ability. And we finished 7th. Other managers have managed to deal with financial restraints in a much better manner and still actually win things, not just stay in the top 4. At Inter he didn't have the luxury of spending a lot but they do have a massive wage bill, so he was again relying on his ability - and it's not working out.

So all in all I think he's a good football man, but not one that should be in a controlling position at a club. While his ego won't allow it, he needs a Director Of Football to stop him making the stupid decisions (Keane, Aquilani et al) - sacking coaches repeatedly etc and focus on what he's good at which is organising teams.

There are very few great managers in the game of football and Benitez isn't one of them.

mike65

Well the Grauniad have flip flopped and are now running with Rafa sacked lead.

DM_7

I feel bad for Rafa, he did am amazing job at Valencia, did well initially at Liverpool but now he just looks like a man that is not well. I hope he takes time away form the game and enjoys living for at least 6 months before getting another job. He looks like he really needs the break.

flahavaj

BERBA wrote: »

Liverpool still had an outside chance of top 4 at the time , i think that was significant. I'm not complaining though coz we get to play AC Milan next Feb , Liverpool thanks to good ol rafa get to play , sparta prague is it? and that is completely down to rafa.

It amuses me that you credit Rafa not being very good for Spurs' qualification for the CL rather than praising your own club and manager for doing so.

x in the city

redzerdrog wrote: »

To be honest a few of my mates are big everton fans and would actually be embarressed by this guy. Every club has its few idiots tbh

scuse moi....:rolleyes:

I dont know the exact figure rafa paid for torres (and I dont give a diddly squat), but I do know it was excessive, I also know it for sure was not a 'nursed' talent.

rafa has nursed f**k all talent (more like hindered talent if anything)... and he has left LFC with their worst squad for years.

the only talent he has shown in recent years is to screw up and give idiotic press conferences, he hails his inter team after beating a team from the congo and has a go at the inter president to back him or sack him...:)

gotta love him.. inter would have beaten that team with a cardboard box in charge

Cant believe posters here are supporting a manager who has done an awful job for over a year and will most certainly be fired by inter .

but I am not surprised the slightest tbh, I think some ray ban quality rose tinted spectacles might be under some trees somehow

DOC09UNAM

x in the city wrote: »

scuse moi....:rolleyes:

I dont know the exact figure rafa paid for torres (and I dont give a diddly squat), but I do know it was excessive, I also know it for sure was not a 'nursed' talent.

rafa has nursed f**k all talent (more like hindered talent if anything)... and he has left LFC with their worst squad for years.

the only talent he has shown in recent years is to screw up and give idiotic press conferences, he hails his inter team after beating a team from the congo and has a go at the inter president to back him or sack him...:)

gotta love him.. inter would have beaten that team with a cardboard box in charge

Cant believe posters here are supporting a manager who has done an awful job for over a year and will most certainly be fired by inter .

but I am not surprised the slightest tbh, I think some ray ban quality rose tinted spectacles might be under some trees somehow

You see there's two different sides of the spectrum.

There's people who worship Rafa, and think he's a great manager which he obviously isn't.

And then there's people like you, who think he's a terrible manager, which he also isn't.

And the fact that you say Torres wasn't worth what they paid for him, is laughable, the man is a brilliant player when fit and firing on all cylinders, much better than the likes of beckford anyway :rolleyes:

jesus_thats_gre

DM-ICE wrote: »

I feel bad for Rafa, he did am amazing job at Valencia, did well initially at Liverpool but now he just looks like a man that is not well. I hope he takes time away form the game and enjoys living for at least 6 months before getting another job. He looks like he really needs the break.

Odd, I have been thinking along these lines for about a year bit never said it out loud.

I think the yanks and the press seriously got to him in his final season or two.

How many managers is that that we have managed to break?

MisterAnarchy

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Someone who won two league titles in Spain with a team other than Barca or Madrid and also won a Champions League with Liverpool just can't be a bad manager.

Dont forget that Valencia were a very good team before Benitez took charge .
They had reached back to back Champions league finals and were a team brimming with potential - with Santiago Cañizares, Roberto Ayala, Rubén Baraja, David Albelda, Vicente and Pablo Aimar .
All top quality players .
Most of the ground work had been done by the previous manager Cuper .

Likewise at Liverpool ,Benitez won the Champions league on the back of Houlliers team with alot of luck it has to be said.
He struggles to built new sides ,he is far too negative and defensive .
His teams are always better in cup competitions because of their defensive style but struggle in the league .
He seems to have become more and more cautious the longer he has managed which is a pity as his Valencia team played fine football ,but then again they were a quality bunch of players.

ricero

Benitez to come back to anfield and hang that clown hodgson and reclaim his throne as the gaffer and withthe new owners giving him the backing this time restore us to greatness. We all can dream being honest is wudnt want rafa back to manage liverpol but I'd rather him then that gob****e hodgosn

lempsipmax

ilovelamp2000 wrote: »

I genuinely don't know how anyone can really accurately judge a managers ability or talent. If there was a pie-chart breakdown of things needed to win a trophy it would definitely be one of the smaller portions, after a high wage bill, ability to increase the wage bill, money to spend on transfers, a good squad and good luck.

The other problem for me is that i don't believe any man succeeds on his own, you need at minimum a good right hand man at all times and possibly even a good team of people around you. So in essence there are a huge amount of variables to take into account when it comes to judging a manager with anything remotely like accuracy. A simple list of trophies is insufficient and often misleading.

I don't watch La Liga so I can't comment on his time there but I have watched his work closely at Liverpool. And my opinion of him is that he's a good coach and a good defensively orientated tactician albeit one that has moments of madness - Kewell starting the CL final in 2005, Crouch and Voronin on the wings against Reading both immediately spring to mind.

I thought if he was confined to that role, like he was at Valencia, he would succeed again but it looks like I'm wrong on that front too. Because for me it was everything else that he got wrong at Liverpool and his ego and vindictiveness cost the club some great coaches and ultimately some players too.

The early success seemed to go to his head, and he soon fell out with the team of coaches that he was successful with - most significantly Pako Ayesteran. We saw huge backroom changes and with it we saw a gradual increase in bad decision making at the club (most notably with transfers) mainly because as one former coach (Alex Miller) put it he surrounded himself with yes men.

From 04 right up to now Liverpool have steadily increased the wage bill, from around 60-65m right up to 120m at latest count. Our transfer spending was quite high (the figures given in evidence for net spend during the H&G era in the High Court case is a lot higher than most people think -£139m), only outdone by Chelsea and Man City during the Benitez era, albeit the ability to have positive net spends disappeared into thin air in 2008. And it was around that time that we had lost some of the coaching staff too. If, as some people say he is a great manager I think he would have been able to keep us in the top four even without a positive net spend from there on out. After all Wenger has managed it with a negative net spend over the last decade.

So essentially I think at the beginning we saw a combination of luck, spending, good decisions with personnel both on the pitch and in the backroom and we got success.

Benitez then began with the political battles and really you've got to hand it to him this was where he excelled at Liverpool. He regularly threatened to quit, so in preperation for calling his bluff the Yanks started looking around at replacements. Gillett knew Klinsmann so he was on the horizon and Parry was dispatched to discuss the job with him. That was the beginning of the end of Parry with Rafa. Rafa later used Agger and Kuyt (and the willing press) as pawns against Parry and asked that they hold off signing their deals until he had his own position sorted (Kuyt actually verified this in a subsequent interview). That and a strong fan backing was used as leverage against the Yanks in his contract talks which resulted in Parry getting the boot and Rafa getting his gold plated 5 year deal.

Unfortunately it also made some divisions in the squad (and fans)- most notably with Carragher. And really the footballing side of things began to unravel not too long after. A succession of bad transfer windows, and a squad seemingly playing with little or no motivation or spirit led to our downfall. The reason for the lack of net spend was also a great piece of Benitez spin, and if anyone cared to ever look at the accounts they'd realise the web he spun. The Yanks actually put 140m into the club, and took out 111m in interest payments , that is a 29m positive investment yet absolutely everyone blames the reason on the lack of a spend on the interest payments. And it actually doesn't stack up.

I'm actually getting tired of this but ultimately when the time came that we couldn't outspend others or rely on luck we were left relying on Benitez's ability. And we finished 7th. Other managers have managed to deal with financial restraints in a much better manner and still actually win things, not just stay in the top 4. At Inter he didn't have the luxury of spending a lot but they do have a massive wage bill, so he was again relying on his ability - and it's not working out.

So all in all I think he's a good football man, but not one that should be in a controlling position at a club. While his ego won't allow it, he needs a Director Of Football to stop him making the stupid decisions (Keane, Aquilani et al) - sacking coaches repeatedly etc and focus on what he's good at which is organising teams.

There are very few great managers in the game of football and Benitez isn't one of them.

I just recently got admitted to the soccer forum, and to be honest I was beginning to despair at the level of chat too and fro re Rafa. However posts like this reason enough to keep reading.

tommyhaas

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Most of the ground work had been done by the previous manager Cuper.

Who also got sacked by Inter in a similar lge position to Rafa

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Likewise at Liverpool ,Benitez won the Champions league on the back of Houlliers team with alot of luck it has to be said.
He struggles to built new sides ,he is far too negative and defensive .
His teams are always better in cup competitions because of their defensive style but struggle in the league .
He seems to have become more and more cautious the longer he has managed which is a pity as his Valencia team played fine football ,but then again they were a quality bunch of players.

I agree with most of what your saying, but I would say he won the Champion lge in spit of the the team left by Ged, not because of it

I think though that he did build a good side at Liverpool, but it cumulated in the 2008/9 squad, and went down hill from there Obviously there were inherent weaknesses in that squad, notably its depth and lack of width, however the spine of the team was excellent and consisted of mostly Rafa buy's

K-9

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

You see there's two different sides of the spectrum.

There's people who worship Rafa, and think he's a great manager which he obviously isn't.

And then there's people like you, who think he's a terrible manager, which he also isn't.

And the fact that you say Torres wasn't worth what they paid for him, is laughable, the man is a brilliant player when fit and firing on all cylinders, much better than the likes of beckford anyway :rolleyes:

Well the vast majority of Pool supporters see his last year or so as a disaster as the funds dried up.

Personally, I'd have given him another season, except these weren't normal circumstances. I hate the fascination with changing managers at every little crisis, SAF and Wenger are proof that you stick with a good manager. Rafa was getting things right, despite mistakes, up to the Summer of 08.

He made mistakes in signings after that but ignoring influences outside his control, like G&H and the credit crisis, makes no sense.

In normal times, Pool should have stood by him but we needed new owners and any new owner wouldn't have fancied the contract he got.

If all things remained equal, I think he'd have built on the second place finish. He'd shown plenty of proof of that. Less rotation, turned a poor record against the top 4 into an good one (hence the bitterness), all that was left was turning too many draws into wins and March 09 to May showed he'd learned from that.

Everything changed once G&H had to put £60 Million into loans, Rafa couldn't buy Jovetic and other targets.

K-9

PS. How could the figure paid for Torres be seen as excessive! Impossible unless it was £40 Million or something.