Benitez Sacked?

rossie1977

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Dont forget that Valencia were a very good team before Benitez took charge .
They had reached back to back Champions league finals and were a team brimming with potential - with Santiago Cañizares, Roberto Ayala, Rubén Baraja, David Albelda, Vicente and Pablo Aimar .
All top quality players .
Most of the ground work had been done by the previous manager Cuper .

potential yes, madrid wiped the floor with them in one of those finals so in truth that valencia team had about as much potential as say the monaco team that reached the champions league final in 2004, how many titles have valencia won since benitez left valencia, what position did that same team that won the title in 2004 finish in 2005.......

Likewise at Liverpool ,Benitez won the Champions league on the back of Houlliers team with alot of luck it has to be said.

define luck.......were man utd lucky in 1999 and 2008?? surely barca were lucky against chelsea at the bridge in 2009 were inter lucky last year when barca missed an open goal (can't remember who it was), were porto not lucky in 2004 when the man utd goalkeeper spilled the ball in the last minute at ot??

houillers team were horrible in europe previous two seasons, they got well beaten by celtic and beaten by a very average marseille in the uefa cup, in truth they were not even a good uefa cup side

while the majority of players were houillers signings most liverpool fans would say that without garcia (especially in the knockout rounds) liverpool would never have got to the final never mind winning it, he got the winner against chelsea, scored and made a goal against juventus, scored 3 against leverkusen in the first knockout round

Paully D

At Valencia: He leaves them with an inflated squad full of overpaid ****e

At Liverpool: He leaves them with an inflated squad full of overpaid ****e

At Inter Milan: Did he even have time to unpack his suitcase?

LuckyLloyd

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Odd, I have been thinking along these lines for about a year bit never said it out loud.

I think the yanks and the press seriously got to him in his final season or two.

How many managers is that that we have managed to break?

Too many.

The Muppet

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I know, the hyperbole used by some posters is quite amazing.

It would be so much easier to have a reasoned discussion on the subject if poster stuck to facts, wouldn't it?

Indeed it would, here's one to keep you going.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Only you would conveniently ignore that Torres wasn't fit to play in a few games after that match as a direct consequence of the injury picked up in that match.

ilovelamp2000 wrote: »

Torres played 86 minutes of a UEFA cup game about three or four days later and it was confirmed by Benitez that there was no injury after the Birmingham game.

And we did not win that game, the substitution didn't work.

As you say it would be so much better to stick to the facts, unfortunately rafas cult following appear to be oblivious to the negative aspects of his managemnet skills and appear to have the need to attack every single criticism of him irrespective of the validity of that criticism as indicated above.

eagle eye

I said in the Serie A thread the weekend that I think the man suffers from stress. It looked like he was out of control a bit last year. He couldn't hide it from the media or anybody else. He had that look on his face of being irritated all the time.

We've heard players come out since and claim he treated them very badly. Its become clear that he has lost the dressing room at Inter. I think he looks like a man that needs a complete break from the game for a couple of months to recharge and re-evaluate things.

Yakult

So I hear Rafa is gone officially this morning.

pickarooney

monkey9 wrote: »

What i want to know is why didn't the SSN reporter ask Rafa questions?

I mean, what are they doing outside the house?? They're obviously there for a reason, yet Rafa comes out with a cup of tea and they just say thanks?? What are they there for?

Just before that the Sky guy asked him if he'd agree he was just a good cup manager.

K-9

R_H_C_P wrote: »

So I hear Rafa is gone officially this morning.

Dismissed by email apparently! Nice way of doing business.

Mister men

Looks like it's official then. Only a matter of time now. There's the door Roy.:D

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

"Faraway hills are green". If Rafa came back to Liverpool it'd be two months tops before everyone wants him out again. Despite his two trophies and a second place finish, he was a failure IMO. He made maybe 5 good signings from around 30, and over 10 atrocious one's I'd say. His biggest mistake was selling Alonso and replacing him with Aquilani. It would be downright madness bringing him back.

massdebater

Benitez always reminded me of the Chicken Boo from Animaniacs. He has somehow managed to bluff his way into very high positions without having any obvious skills at the job. Maybe one day his smig will fall off and confrim what I thought all along

x in the city

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

You see there's two different sides of the spectrum.

There's people who worship Rafa, and think he's a great manager which he obviously isn't.

And then there's people like you, who think he's a terrible manager, which he also isn't.

And the fact that you say Torres wasn't worth what they paid for him, is laughable, the man is a brilliant player when fit and firing on all cylinders, much better than the likes of beckford anyway :rolleyes:

lol

right, so obviously rafa is such a good manager he gets fired from him second job inside a year...

i see your point.

as for torres, dont know what you are talking about, some guy said torres was a resulf of the, erm, rafa benetiz foundation and i said , erm no he wasnt he was bought from athletic mardid for $xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxx (insert hefty fee)

rafa is a conman, and seems to be alienated wherever he goes. I can imagine him at city, spunking 300 million pounds on 54 average players, getting city to 5th and making all manner of excuses before getting fired again and receiving another 6 figure pay out.

gotta love that man

Fenix

massdebater wrote: »

Benitez always reminded me of the Chicken Boo from Animaniacs. He has somehow managed to bluff his way into very high positions without having any obvious skills at the job. Maybe one day his smig will fall off and confrim what I thought all along

2 La Liga titles and a UEFA cup with Valencia is hardly "without having any obvious skills at the job"

I am personally no Rafa fan but that's poppycock!

doc_17

THFC wrote: »

"Faraway hills are green". If Rafa came back to Liverpool it'd be two months tops before everyone wants him out again. Despite his two trophies and a second place finish, he was a failure IMO. He made maybe 5 good signings from around 30, and over 10 atrocious one's I'd say. His biggest mistake was selling Alonso and replacing him with Aquilani. It would be downright madness bringing him back.

If Harry redknapp wins a CL, an Fa Cup and gets you into CL 5 straight years and then gets fired.......would you call him a failure?

Yes he made bad buys......who hasn't. Noone is disputing that.

His problem was the 5-8 mil bracket. But most of the dross he signed the club did recoup a significant part of it.

His worst buys? Dossena, Aquilani, Keane, Johnson.

And if Hector Cuoper was such a good manager why the hell did he not win the dam league himself intead of leaving it to Rafa!

As I said before some people give out about Rafa's followers not being able to criticise anything...yet they on the hand do not recognise any of his achievements. I find it a bit hypocritical!

noodler

x in the city wrote: »

lol

right, so obviously rafa is such a good manager he gets fired from him second job inside a year...

Is that a statistic? Being fired twice in a year?

There are some other statistics regarding the CL, Spanish League etc you should take into consideration for a more balanced analysis.

x in the city

massdebater wrote: »

Benitez always reminded me of the Chicken Boo from Animaniacs. He has somehow managed to bluff his way into very high positions without having any obvious skills at the job. Maybe one day his smig will fall off and confrim what I thought all along

a footballers version of catch me if you can

x in the city

noodler wrote: »

Is that a statistic? Being fired twice in a year?

There are some other statistics regarding the CL, Spanish League etc you should take into consideration for a more balanced analysis.

my analysis is thorough

Benetiz is a big failure

there should be a sticky on here for rafa devotees tbh

noodler

x in the city wrote: »

my analysis is thorough

Benetiz is a big failure

there should be a sticky on here for rafa devotees tbh

Balanced analysis ≠ being a Rafa devotee.

PHB

I wonder where he'll go next. I would be surprised if a top club wanted him/was even available. He must be absolutely loaded now after two big payouts, maybe he'll take some time and wait for the next big job offer.

Utd/Chelsea/Arsenal/Madrid/Barca/AC/Inter/Juve are all out of the picture as they have managers or something else.

He will probably need to sign for somebody like Valencia again before he'll get another shot at a big club.

noodler

PHB wrote: »

I wonder where he'll go next. ... He must be absolutely loaded now after two big payouts,

Maybe he'll buy Liverpool and have the kind of control he always dreamed of!

rossie1977

THFC wrote: »

"Faraway hills are green". If Rafa came back to Liverpool it'd be two months tops before everyone wants him out again. Despite his two trophies and a second place finish, he was a failure IMO. He made maybe 5 good signings from around 30, and over 10 atrocious one's I'd say. His biggest mistake was selling Alonso and replacing him with Aquilani. It would be downright madness bringing him back.

what i find interesting is how spurs, everton and villa fans consider rafa a failure at liverpool, fair enough man utd fans thinking that given how much they have won but what have spurs, everton and villa won between them during rafas reign to be so critical??

homolumo

THFC wrote: »

His biggest mistake was selling Alonso and replacing him with Aquilani.

He didn't sell Alonso, Alonso wanted to go. He may have wanted to get rid of him for Barry a year earlier but it was Alonso who got his wish with the move to Real Madrid.

eagle eye

rossie1977 wrote: »

what i find interesting is how spurs, everton and villa fans consider rafa a failure at liverpool, fair enough man utd fans thinking that given how much they have won but what have spurs, everton and villa won between them during rafas reign to be so critical??

Its not about what their clubs won at all that matters. Its how they perceive his achievements at Liverpool that matters. Did you ever think that they expected Liverpool to be doing more than they have done?

Just because somebody supports a club that has been below Liverpool doesn't mean they don't have the right to discuss what Benitez has or has not achieved.

Everton haven't spent anything near what Benitez spent during his time at Liverpool. I don't know the figures for the other two clubs offhand but I'd guess that Liverpool under Benitez spent more than any of them but he still got beat to fourth place twice, once by Everton and once by Tottenham.

And I'm not calling Benitez a bad manager by the way, just understanding the views that others might hold.

#15

homolumo wrote: »

He didn't sell Alonso, Alonso wanted to go. He may have wanted to get rid of him for Barry a year earlier but it was Alonso who got his wish with the move to Real Madrid.

Yes, but Alonso only wanted to go because Rafa tried to sell him the previous summer.

Neil3030

rossie1977 wrote: »

what i find interesting is how spurs, everton and villa fans consider rafa a failure at liverpool, fair enough man utd fans thinking that given how much they have won but what have spurs, everton and villa won between them during rafas reign to be so critical??

So if Jose Mourinho supported Aldershot, he'd be in no position to comment on Rafa?

SlickRic

the reality about Rafa, as always, is somewhere in the middle of the two polarised sets of opinions.

as i said earlier in the week; he's not shíte, but he's also not as good as he thinks he is.

he was a perfect fit for Liverpool while we had him, and despite what all his detractors will choose to say, he was not anything close to a failure. he spent a decent amount of money in his first 3 years especially, and we got a decent return on that money as a club for 4 years...

in terms of players...Xabi, Torres, Garcia, Arbeloa, Reina, Agger, Skrtel (his 1st 18 months!), etc.

in terms of trophies and Cup performances...CL 2005, CL Final v AC 2007, FA Cup winners '06.

in terms of improving the League position and points totals.

he gave us many memorable victories, and many memorable European nights. his team made us a force to be feared in Europe again.

then, as the money dwindled, and promises were not kept to him, he steadily lost the plot with us. he didn't perform, and his team didn't perform as of the end of 2009. he should have done a lot better.

he fúcked up, and it's hard to argue, on the face of it, that he didn't deserve to be sacked. he did a wonderful job, but the club had become stagnant, and a change was a viable alternative. i didn't agree, but i could see why it maybe could be championed.

and so it came to be.

Rafa was not a failure, but he was not infalliable. from what i can see, not many fans will say he was infallible, but a lot say he was a failure.

that is extremely ignorant analysis as far as i'm concerned.

all Liverpool fans craved the Premier League, and that IMO, is what makes it far too easy to tarnish his image. it's the one thing he didn't do in all honesty, and he got closer than anyone.

i can't fully judge his Inter stint, but it seems he's the same embattled Rafa who managed Liverpool in 09/10, and he deseprately needs a break, because his methods aren't working like they did.

i implore people to look at his record rationally, rather than peddling tabloid nonsense. he was an excellent manager for Valencia and Liverpool on the whole. i wouldn't take him back at Liverpool now, because as i say, i think he's lost it a bit, but he deserves respect in terms of his achievements - rational, truthful respect.

basically, he's not the Second Coming, but he's not Souness.

K-9

SlickRic wrote: »

all Liverpool fans craved the Premier League, and that IMO, is what makes it far too easy to tarnish his image. it's the one thing he didn't do in all honesty, and he got closer than anyone.

True. The CL stuff gets forgotten, Liverpool were phenomenal in Europe if we had such a terrible squad as some make out!

i can't fully judge his Inter stint, but it seems he's the same embattled Rafa who managed Liverpool in 09/10, and he deseprately needs a break, because his methods aren't working like they did.

Seems it was madness taking Inter on considering their finances and an ageing squad. Decent piece on it here from the Telegraph:

Rafa Benitez may not have conquered, but he continues to divide – Telegraph Blogs

rossie1977

Neil3030 wrote: »

So if Jose Mourinho supported Aldershot, he'd be in no position to comment on Rafa?

ah thats not an answer to my question, i asked why so critical, i have seen everton and spurs fans calling him a complete failure/bluffer, personally i can't get my head around this, if everton or spurs had him as manager and he won them the CL, got to another final, won the fa cup and multiple high place finishes would they also hold the same view??

someone mentioned money spent, well spurs have spent £280-290m since the beginning of season 2004-05, in that timeframe its got them one league cup and a one 4th place finish

eagle eye

K-9 wrote: »

Seems it was madness taking Inter on considering their finances and an ageing squad. Decent piece on it here from the Telegraph:

Just on this bit, he never was and never will be as good as Jose Mourinho. I don't buy into this ageing squad rubbish either. They won the Champion's League, Serie A and the Coppa Italia last May. Thats just 7 months ago.

Chardee MacDennis

Neil3030 wrote: »

So if Jose Mourinho supported Aldershot, he'd be in no position to comment on Rafa?

no coz he has actually won trophies himself unlike anyone here on boards...

dreamers75

Would love him at Sevilla. Hes a coach and he would suit them given players to work with rather than allowed pick them himself.

noodler

eagle eye wrote: »

Just on this bit, he never was and never will be as good as Jose Mourinho. I don't buy into this ageing squad rubbish either. They won the Champion's League, Serie A and the Coppa Italia last May. Thats just 7 months ago.

Thank you - what a load of rubbish.

Also,

As his successor, Roy Hodgson, has pointed out, Benitez left Anfield with a squad that was simultaneously overstaffed and under-strength. He had clogged Melwood with driftwood and deadwood. He had, in a year of poor decisions, somehow undone the generally good work of his previous lustrum on Merseyside. For those who loathe his legacy, his shadow also looms, long and dark.

No, the results were bad - simple as. Honestly, it was the same players bar 2 or 3 the previosu year. Too revisionist for my liking

Chucky the tree

#15 wrote: »

Yes, but Alonso only wanted to go because Rafa tried to sell him the previous summer.

Yep, I'm sure it had nothing to do with being given a chance to play for one of the biggest clubs in the world, in spain, the year leading up to the World cup. Instead, it was all because of Rafa.

K-9

eagle eye wrote: »

Just on this bit, he never was and never will be as good as Jose Mourinho.

Luckily nobody is suggesting that then.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

doc_17 wrote: »

If Harry redknapp wins a CL, an Fa Cup and gets you into CL 5 straight years and then gets fired.......would you call him a failure?

Liverpool were always a well established, top four club. Now they're not. Spurs, before last season, were a team looking to break into the top four, but a fifth place finish would have been considered a success. So yes, if he won us a CL title, an FA Cup and got us into the CL five years running I'd be fcuking estatic. But Spurs and Liverpool, in 2004, had far different ambitions, and IMO he was a failure. He, with the help of H&G, have brought about the demise of Liverpool. If ye some how finish in the top 4 this season it will be an incredible achievement. If ye dont, it'll be likely that Torres will leave, and then ye'll find it far harder to attract big players, which will leave ye in a similar position to Spurs a few years ago. That, in my opinion, reeks of failure.

rossie1977 wrote: »

what i find interesting is how spurs, everton and villa fans consider rafa a failure at liverpool, fair enough man utd fans thinking that given how much they have won but what have spurs, everton and villa won between them during rafas reign to be so critical??

Oh sorry, my humblest apologies. I didnt realise in order to have an opinion you must be like everyone else in Ireland and follow either United or Liverpool..:rolleyes: gman.

Emelio

dreamers75 wrote: »

Would love him at Sevilla. Hes a coach and he would suit them given players to work with rather than allowed pick them himself.

No way Jose amigo - rafael benitez is not the man to manage my home club.
It is true he has good record with valencia but I feel Cuper did much of work in advance. He is manager that need much cash to produce output of significance.
I feel after the Inter debacle it is likely that benitez will fall into deep abyss and may not feature for many years. However because of european success it is likely that he get new premiership job. Perhaps he take over at Tottinghams Hotspurs when Harry leave?

flahavaj

Emelio wrote: »

No way Jose amigo - rafael benitez is not the man to manage my home club.
It is true he has good record with valencia but I feel Cuper did much of work in advance. He is manager that need much cash to produce output of significance.
I feel after the Inter debacle it is likely that benitez will fall into deep abyss and may not feature for many years. However because of european success it is likely that he get new premiership job. Perhaps he take over at Tottinghams Hotspurs when Harry leave?

No way you're real, but I have a feeling I'm gonna enjoy your posts.:pac:

deisedevil

Emelio wrote: »

Tottinghams

Ya went too far there now in fairness.

keane2097

rossie1977 wrote: »

what i find interesting is how spurs, everton and villa fans consider rafa a failure at liverpool, fair enough man utd fans thinking that given how much they have won but what have spurs, everton and villa won between them during rafas reign to be so critical??

Lol - what an atrocious argument!

The Muppet

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Yep, I'm sure it had nothing to do with being given a chance to play for one of the biggest clubs in the world, in spain, the year leading up to the World cup. Instead, it was all because of Rafa.

Alonso himself said he decided to leave because of how Rafa treated him, hawking him around to finance his persuit of Barry. That to me was Rafa's major mistake, he obviously didn't realise how good a player Alonso was and how important he was to liverpool as was evident last season. He compounded that mistake by replacing him with a crocked player who was injured for the first half of last season and when fit wasn't up to the physical nature of the premiership.

Apart from that I believe he made more than his fair share of poor buys.

I think he's a decent coach. If he was willing to let someone with an eye for talent purchase his players with the attributes rafa stipulated I think he could coach a team to the title.

It's no accident that liverpool faltered when rafa was given full control of the club IMO.

I doubt his ego would allow him even consider such an arrangement.

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

He compounded that mistake by replacing him with a crocked player who was injured for the first half of last season and when fit wasn't up to the physical nature of the premiership.

the rest of your post is excellently put.

but i would still argue that him 'not being up to the physical nature of the Premiership' is a myth, and if anything, IMO, Rafa's mistake was not playing him a bit more while he was fit, because he showed flashes of real quality at times, but Rafa just didn't trust him for whatever reason.

herbieflowers

No-one can judge Aquilani's time in the PL, he simply wasn't given enough a chance by Benitez or Hodgson.

The Muppet

SlickRic wrote: »

the rest of your post is excellently put.

but i would still argue that him 'not being up to the physical nature of the Premiership' is a myth, and if anything, IMO, Rafa's mistake was not playing him a bit more while he was fit, because he showed flashes of real quality at times, but Rafa just didn't trust him for whatever reason.

I'm assuming the reason he didn't play him was due to his physical problems, What other reason makes sense. He played him against the less physical teams didn't he?

Did Rafa not say as much in one of his press conferences, dont ask me to link but i think I read/heard something of that nature at one stage.

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

Did Rafa not say as much in one of his press conferences, dont ask me to link but i think I read/heard something of that nature at one stage.

he did say that.

my personal opinion was that he was far too cautious with him.

The Muppet

SlickRic wrote: »

he did say that.

my personal opinion was that he was far too cautious with him.

You're doubting his assesment of the situation?

I cant really argue with that, it is a possibility.

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

You're doubting his assesment of the situation?

I cant really argue with that, it is a possibility.

i am.

Aquilani played well enough (not amazingly i hasten to add!), but well enough, to mean there is reason to doubt his assessment.

here is Moratti's latest comments on the situation.

Inter Milan coach Massimo Moratti has again declined to confirm coach.

Rafael Benitez had been officially sacked but did say the situation was complicated.

'We are trying to understand what's going on, this situation is a bit of a mess,' Moratti told reporters.

'Everything that happened was a bit unexpected, we are considering every point of view.'

Widespread media reports have said Benitez is in the process of being removed after just six months in charge of the world club, European and Italian champions given his side's poor domestic form and Saturday's shock outburst about a lack of signings.

Former AC Milan coach Leonardo has been made favourite by bookmakers to succeed Benitez amid speculation that Inter are struggling to reach a severance deal with the Spaniard.


'I haven't had a way of talking any other coach. I haven't met Leonardo,' Moratti added.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/1222/intermilan.html

Chucky the tree

The Muppet wrote: »

Alonso himself said he decided to leave because of how Rafa treated him, hawking him around to finance his persuit of Barry. That to me was Rafa's major mistake, he obviously didn't realise how good a player Alonso was and how important he was to liverpool as was evident last season. He compounded that mistake by replacing him with a crocked player who was injured for the first half of last season and when fit wasn't up to the physical nature of the premiership.

His decision was made far easier by it being Real madrid being interested. I think to say he left 100% because of Rafa is wrong, for example if RM didn't want him I don't think he would have forced a transfer to Juventus or another Spainish club(bar Barca obv).

The Muppet

Chucky the tree wrote: »

His decision was made far easier by it being Real madrid being interested. I think to say he left 100% because of Rafa is wrong, for example if RM didn't want him I don't think he would have forced a transfer to Juventus or another Spainish club(bar Barca obv).

You should read what he said himself on the issue, then you wouldn't have to speculate about the situation, you'd know.:)

monkey9

x in the city wrote: »

scuse moi....:rolleyes:

I dont know the exact figure rafa paid for torres (and I dont give a diddly squat), but I do know it was excessive, I also know it for sure was not a 'nursed' talent.

AHAHAHAHA!!! You call paying 20 odd million for Fernando Torres excessive!!??? Will you ever go and take your bitter blue bullsh!t somewhere else!!

Excessive :pac:

Devil08

No wonder he looked so happy yesterday. Another big pay off. He must be worth a fortune! Hes probably made the guts of 10 million over the past 6 months