What Synth?

SteveDon

Well ive given up on having the money to buy a virus, but im hellbent on getting a hands on synth to spark some creativity. Im not sure what one to get though.

Heres whats available in my price range:

Roland Juno Di

http://www.thomann.de/ie/roland_junodi.htm

Korg R3

http://www.thomann.de/ie/korg_r3_synthesizervocoder.htm

Novation Ultranova

http://www.thomann.de/ie/novation_ultranova.htm

Roland Sh-01 Gaia

http://www.thomann.de/ie/roland_sh01_gaia.htm

If it is highly recommended i may be able to strech my funds to afford a waldorf blofield

http://www.thomann.de/ie/waldorf_blofeld_keyboard.htm

Also can afford the microkorg and alesis micron but i reckon they look pretty crappy

Any thoughts?

cloudydsound

yamaha an1x all the way!!

im on the hunt for one at the moment

this polish guy's synth vids are class and he gave this synth a top rating on his site and said it's the best va on the lower price range

you'll pick one up for between 200-300 by the looks of things

here's some vids on it by the guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vZZ1cghfMg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU4qzEtL5o

and a funny vid on the alesis ion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqyTDTBIDno

btw ive messed with the r3 and wasn't impressed

splitrmx

Perhaps an analogue synth? Like the Dave Smith Tetra: http://www.thomann.de/ie/dave_smith_instruments_tetra.htm

Chloroplast

could be well out of your budget range steve, but a nord lead 2x would be well worth saving for

http://www.turnkey.co.uk/nord-lead-2x.html

Tomohawk

Avoid the MicroKorg and if you like the Alesis Micron, seriously consider an Akai Miniak, they are the exact same synth engine in a better casing with a little bit more hands on control. Much cheaper as well <300 euro new.

Don't forget a Novation K-Station secondhand...Lots of knobs, compact and solid build.

There ya go, 2 for the price of 1!:D

romarr

anyone any experience with Access Virus B ? see theres one on adverts

does it suffer from the same issues that neuro pointed out in the other thread ?

krd

romarr wrote: »

anyone any experience with Access Virus B ? see theres one on adverts

does it suffer from the same issues that neuro pointed out in the other thread ?

Every piece of equipment has some glitches to it. The more ambitous the piece of equipment the more glitches.

I think the Virus b is just Midi and audio out - I think they work really well. Though a real pain to think of is SYSEX - I use Ableton - it doesn't handle SYSEX (it discards it). SYSEX is important if you want the Virus to recall settings if you switch between projects.

I've never done it - but I know that other people have really got into the SYSEX thing - with their hex calulators and their programming - it looks seriously painful.

Then again, all the dials on the Virus may accept MIDI as control signals - which is just a pain to find what they're under. Unless someone has written a piece of software for it - which someone probably has.

Don't forget - you'll also need a rack. I think Argus actually sell racks - I think they even have a small one that would fit on a desktop. Or you can build your own stand for it.

madtheory

The sounds in those vids can be done on any VA if you know what you're doing.

The Alesis Ion was super, the Micron is the same synth with less knobs, and now the Miniak... can they make a rack? It's a great sounding synth, the lack of control puts me off though.

All of the rack VAs mentioned in this thread can be used as desktop devices if you like, no need for a rack.

I've used the Virus B a few times, given the price I don't see what the big deal is personally, other than they were one of the first good sounding VAs. The sound is fine, the interface I did not like. I prefer the Nords, and they have that wonderful pitch bend/ vibrato peg thingy.

+1 on the Novation KS series, and they go for silly money (as in it's undervalued). I own a KS rack and at work a Nord Lead 2x and a Moog Little Phatty. The Novation is as good as any of them, better in some respects. Very flexible, easy to use, loads of modulation, great sound. And I replaced a Yamaha CS5 and a CS10 with the Novation.

You don't need sysex, most synths use NRPNs for the knobs, Ableton has to record those they're just MIDI control changes. I don't know for certain, I use Pro Tools for MIDI. Sysex is no hassle though, you can use a sysex librarian to save your patches, or if your synth has an editor you have a graphic interface on the computer. You need never be concerned with hexadecimal.

PS the Juno is like a home keyboard more than a synth, the Gaia has a very poor sound and is too basic IMO. The AN1x sounds good but is short on knobs.

cloudydsound

madtheory wrote: »

The sounds in those vids can be done on any VA if you know what you're doing.

The AN1x sounds good but is short on knobs.

the exact same sounds on any va? im no expert but do va's not have different fundamental characteristics to their sound? i agree that they'd get a pretty similar sound but with no differences at all (for worse or for better), i dont agree tbh

it does have less knobs but apparently it has more versatility for creating decent sounds than other va's in its category and price range

also the guy made the point, well i'll quote it

"With other synths, you often need to mess around a while to control its sound so that it's convincing. They need more or less "polishing", let's call it. A sound that sounds good in the lower part of the keyboard gets too crappy when you play the higher frequencies on the right side of the keyboard. So you need to rearrange the filter tracking, the treble/bass in EQ unit, etc. So you get tired faster. With AN1x... it's great here and now, after twisting a knob, everywhere. This synth cannot sound bad. The FX unit is one of the best I've heard. - AN1x is still the best analog emulation there is"

im not trying to say his word is gospel but judging by his site i'd strongly trust his opinion

cloudydsound

just to add, the point you made about the control knobs is a fair one considering the op is looking for a synth especially for the hands on aspect

Doge

At the risk of sounding pedantic you should let your ears decide

- not as easy as it sounds unless you personally know owners of all the synths you mentioned.

cloudydsound wrote: »

and a funny vid on the alesis ion

His actual demo video of the ion has some my most favourite sounds of his.

The problem is though, Jexus can make any synth sound great, so the power is in the user.

Another problem when listening to demos of a synth, if you can't find any demos of sounds you like, (e.g supersaw trance leads in my case - can't stand them)
you're inclined to think a lot less of the synth.

I can empathize with what madtheory said about VA's having the potential to sound the same.


It really is down to the operator, we should all be trying to push the envelope regardless of what synth we own.

However, some synthesizers have such a unique character, they can stand out a lot from others.

This is why so many people are hung up about real analog synths, they do tend to stick out more,
VAs should be made to do the same imo, which often isn't the case.

I personally think the Novation K-series aren't a great "Virtual Analog", but they are good in their own right. very flexible as MT says.

The only thing the Liquid engine boasts, is emulating the filter distortions.

Theres a lot more to proper Analog Emulation before you even get to the filter stage,

it should start with emulating the unstable waveshapes you'd find in a lot of analogs.

Have a look at the raw waveforms of your VAs on an oscilloscope, they're perfectly fixed in most - no drift whatsoever, (i know this for a fact with the K-series)

which i believe is just one of the main reasons people criticize the sound and say analog is better.

Doge

SteveDon wrote: »

Also can afford the microkorg and alesis micron but i reckon they look pretty

Forget about looks! Your ears should describe how crappy a synth is.

They are seriously lacking controls however.

The Micron/Miniak has all the functionality of the Alesis Ion + more.

Its just that its hard to get all that functionality out of it, and takes longer due to the lack of controls.

I wouldn't mind owning an Alesis Ion for the studio, with all my patches copied onto a Micron/Miniak for use live at a gig!

The sheer amount of emulated filters they come with, is enough to make me want one, really opens up the sonic capabilities.

The sound in this demo really impressed me too, but as i said, a lot of it is down to the man who programmed the sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXV4RsEy8b8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOYqYC6YBf0

madtheory

Actually waveform, most analogue oscillators don't drift, and if they do it's over a period of 10s of minutes, so the tuning changes, not the timbre. What separates them is that most do not produce a perfect saw or particularly square. Square is the hardest to do, and it turns out that less than perfect ones usually sound better anyway! So different synths will produce different basic waveshapes. This factor is designed into VA synths. I've examined the waveforms on the Yamaha CS synths, they do exactly what I described.

I agree with you about the user. When you really dig into synths, you'll find that a lot of them do the same stuff.

cloudydsound wrote: »

the exact same sounds on any va? im no expert but do va's not have different fundamental characteristics to their sound?

Yes they are different, but not fundamentally. The differences are subtle. The kind of subtlety that youtube compression would eliminate. You'll have slightly different qualities with the "string" sounds, but most subtractive synths have the same basic set of features which will cover 85% of typical sounds. 2 or 3 oscillators, an LPF, 2 LFOs, 2 envelopes etc. After that, you might have ring mod, varying choices of oscillator waveforms, filter slopes etc.

I have my own favourite bass, pad and lead patches that I can program on any synth. They're a good way to ascertain the character by ear. Also a very good way to figure out the user interface on a given synth. For example, I had the KS rack side by side with my Yamaha CS10+CS5 combination, and I was able to get all the same sounds with the KS. Turns out it has a similar character to the Yamaha stuff. Whereas the Nord Lead 2x can get close to a Yamaha, but it has a distinctive character, close to a Prophet 5 but more than that, it has a "Nord" thing. Especially when chorus is engaged- that's doing something nice that isn't that easy to get exactly the same on other synths. I also had the Nord next to a Moog Little Phatty, and TBH the Moog interface was annoying, not as flexible as the Nord and not much to choose between them in sound quality.

But don't take anyone's word for it. Best to experience these subtle differences for yourself. It's fun and educational to have your basic patches and to program them up on various synths.

cloudydsound

waveform wrote: »

The problem is though, Jexus can make any synth sound great, so the power is in the user.

oh yeah, i agree 100%

i just think the an1x is the best quality synth you could get for such a cheap price

cloudydsound

madtheory wrote: »

Yes they are different, but not fundamentally. The differences are subtle.

what i meant by fundamentally is that their basic waveforms will sound different, not necessarily by a big difference, just different ie a little bit brighter etc

have you used an an1x?
if so how did you like it? cos i'm strongly thinking about getting one

Doge

madtheory wrote: »

Actually waveform, most analogue oscillators don't drift, and if they do it's over a period of 10s of minutes, so the tuning changes, not the timbre.

Just in case theres confusion, by drift i meant any fluctuations you can see on an oscilloscope.

I didn't mean "oscillator drift" which is more specific to a change in frequency.
Although that too can add to the character!
I usually apply an lfo to the pitch, to mimic the sounds you'd hear from BOC tracks, with their over-used audio tapes!

I should really try messing around with Synth Edit to apply little modulations, or fluctuations at the oscillator stage,
to see if i can come up with synths with a unique character. That little program looks very powerful.

I also had the Nord next to a Moog Little Phatty, and TBH the Moog interface was annoying, not as flexible as the Nord and not much to choose between them in sound quality.

How do you find the Little Phatty actually?
Was surprised to see you bought one, after you mentioning you didn't like the Moog Ladder Filter, have no idea if the Phatty's filter is much different.

I had a brief mess with one, and the filter sounded very "smooth!".

madtheory

I don't own the Moog, it's at work. The lack of knobs and not being polyphonic put me off. It's got a great sound but the Nord does too. I tried a Voyager once and that was lovely, mainly because it has a super key action, even the knobs feel good (ooer!). In my memory that sounded great, but I wasn't comparing it to anything.

cloudydsound wrote: »

have you used an an1x?
if so how did you like it? cos i'm strongly thinking about getting one

It's been so long since I tried one that I couldn't offer a valid opinion really. I say get one, if you don't like it you can move it on, they're popular.

hubiedubie

Also consider a second hand Waldorf Q Rack - it has the best interface of any hardware synth I've used (much better than any of the Virus models) and a pretty versatile sound. Incredibly deep but at the same time everything is there in front of you so not much menu diving.

The Blofeld is an unbelievable synth for the money aswell. Only downside is the lack of knobs and outputs but it's an incredible little synth (basically a Q and Microwave rolled into one).

Brian68GT

Theres a Korg Radias for sale up in X Music for 750 euros. Nice synth and a bit of a bargain. Check out the demos, its got a nice sound for a VA and it looks very cool.

Brian

SinewaveSurfer

SteveDon wrote: »

Well ive given up on having the money to buy a virus, but im hellbent on getting a hands on synth to spark some creativity. Im not sure what one to get though.

Heres whats available in my price range:

Roland Juno Di

http://www.thomann.de/ie/roland_junodi.htm

Korg R3

http://www.thomann.de/ie/korg_r3_synthesizervocoder.htm

Novation Ultranova

http://www.thomann.de/ie/novation_ultranova.htm

Roland Sh-01 Gaia

http://www.thomann.de/ie/roland_sh01_gaia.htm

If it is highly recommended i may be able to strech my funds to afford a waldorf blofield

http://www.thomann.de/ie/waldorf_blofeld_keyboard.htm

Also can afford the microkorg and alesis micron but i reckon they look pretty crappy

Any thoughts?

My first thought is:
What kind of soundcard do you have ? That's going to matter more than your choice of synth.

Anyway on the synth front I highly recommend the Dave Smith Evolver. Immensely awesome synth, and there's a desktop model available if you're on a budget.