Spoilt for choice...but confused.

fulladapipes

Hello all,

Been absorbing loads of knowledge and advice on this site recently, as I am attempting to buy my first shotgun. Now, after trying loads of them, I am merely confused. So I thought I might ask some experts, i.e. you guys, if that's OK.

I want the gun for mostly clays and some field; 30" barrels seem to suit me best; o/u I prefer; and a budget under €1,000.

After visiting a lot of shops in the east coast region, I've narrowed it down to two guns (but maybe you know something I don't) both with five chokes and hard case. These guns seem to fit me the best so far:

1. a new Silma M80 - €900.
2. a second hand Bettinsoli Diamond line (de lux, it looks like with three golden birds engraved) - €850.

Any thoughts or ideas welcome, or direct me to another thread if needs be.

Thanks for the help.

FdP.

Cass

The bettinsoli would be my choice. I had the Diamond Sporter (not the deluxe) a few years ago. Excellent gun, fit was as good as a Beretta. The aim was up along the rib, but once i got this it was great for clays and equally as good on the field.

I paid €800 for mine brand new. The Deluxe should stand you no more than €1,000 - €1,050 new so if you are serious about the second hand one i would be looking to get it a little less than the marked price. Also if its "johnny cash" i definitely would be looking for either the gun for less or a cartridge belt and a few boxes of shells thrown in.

Have you tried any other dealers around you. A mistake i made when younger was to buy what i wanted in the first shop i seen it. Of course money was available then, now i wouldn't buy until i've tried most every shop in the country.

I cannot comment on the Slma as i've no experience with them, but from reviews i've read they would be on a par or slightly less (cost wise) than the Bettinsoli. That does not mean its any less of a gun, but with Bettinsoli being owned by Beretta you know the quality is there already.

fulladapipes

Thanks ezridax,

Yes I've tried about six shops so far and fired a few guns.

I'd be buying for cash alright, and all dealers have thrown in up 100 cartridges and a gun slip with the hard case. The Silma is €999 new.

The Silma M80 is lovely as it has a chunky stock, but when I tried it the other evening the second barrel often wouldn't fire, due to some inertia reason - it wasn't hitting my shoulder hard enough - but apparently that's a new gun thing and not really an issue after a few high velocity rounds (I was using subsonic).

The Bettinsoli has the better reputation though it seems.

FdP

Cork24

What you need for Clay is a Good Name and you cant get any better then Either a browning or better if you can find a second Winchester go with that.

You know by them you wont come into any problems, you must Remember on a Shooting Range you be firing easily up to 100 Rounds. so you dont want a New Gun just for 900 Euro and find that the gun start to miss fire. from the Heating coil not doing its job.

i have a Second hand Browning for Shooting and Clay and not once have it miss fire only down fall it does not fit Chokes.

Cass

fulladapipes wrote: »

Yes I've tried about six shops so far and fired a few guns.

Thats the way. :cool:

I'd be buying for cash alright, and all dealers have thrown in up 100 cartridges and a gun slip with the hard case.

At least. Remember it is a buyers market. Bluff and bulls**t then treaten to walk. You'd be surprised what you can get with some haggling.

The Silma M80 is lovely as it has a chunky stock, but when I tried it the other evening the second barrel often wouldn't fire, due to some inertia reason - it wasn't hitting my shoulder hard enough - but apparently that's a new gun thing and not really an issue after a few high velocity rounds (I was using subsonic).

Run for the hills or as far away as you can from that. If its choosy about ammo now what happens later with wear andd tear. Not to mention some shoots use lower powered cartridges and if the second barrel won't fire with them you have not got an O/U you have a single barrel. Plus try using a heavy load cartridge for clays. After a few hundred you will think someone has stolen your shoulder.

The Bettinsoli has the better reputation though it seems.

FdP

It does and quite frankly if the dealer is saying that about the Silma (i presume he is from the context of your post) i would be considering another. Thats aside stick with what works. The last thing you want is a lemon for a first gun. It will break your heart and spirit and sour you against the sport.

My Bettinsoli never missed or refused any ammo. For that reason, and if you are set on one of them i would recommend the Bettinsoli.

fulladapipes

Cheers,

Funnily enough today I came across a second hand Winchester, but it must be about 25 years old. And also a nice shotgun made for Webley and Scott. Again about €900 new.

I wasn't 100% sure what the problem with the Silma was, apart from not enough inertia, but the sales guy sent another chap out to sort it out.

Out of the two so far them the Bettinsoli - being a good name, I reckon - would seem to be winning.

Thanks again.

FdP

Cass

Cork24 wrote: »

............from the Heating coil not doing its job
..........

Sorry, the what now?

Cass

Not to confuse the issue you have other options for new guns such as certain models of Miroku (i know thats spelt wrong), lanber, Baikal, Winchester, Remington, etc.

As for second hand you could look at Beretta, Browning, Remington and other makes than new would exceed the €1,000 mark, but second hand could be gotten for €1,000 or less.


Where in the country are ys? County will do.

fulladapipes

I am in the middle of Dublin.

I have tried a Lanber but found I couldn't see straight along the rib: I was looking down it, so it didn't fit me really. The Baikal was very basic and clunky. Not seen a s/h Miroku yet. The only Browning I have come across s/h under budget was a semi-auto Phoenix, which isn't really for me.

In fairness, the Silma fits me very well, but I do take the previous advice on board.

There was a s/h Beretta 686 Onyx for €1100 (€1300 but he'd do it for €1100) which I tried out, and it was lovely, and fitted me well, but over my budget.

FdP

deeksofdoom

Cork24 wrote: »

from the Heating coil not doing its job.

ezridax wrote: »

Sorry, the what now?

The heating coil erzidax, it fires the cartridges.

Cork24 have you tried to flush the heating coil with a bucket of steam. A bit of fine tunning with a glass hammer may be what you need, but if your going to use a skirting ladder wear a safety harness.

Failing that bring your gun to a reputable C2 registered plumber. Not this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPSMBDQ5XwU

Cass

Fulladapipes - Don't let my opinions choose the gun for you. The Silma looks like a lovely gun, but that business with the second barrel would worru me.

If the bettinsoli fits and you like it and more to the point are happy with it, go for it. If its a case of " well i could live with it" then don't. nothing worse than ahving a shotgun that everytime you look/use it you regret buying it.

Deeksofdoom - I'm actually lost for words so i'll let you carry on from here. :D

dos29

I have a Bettinsoli Supersport and could not fault it in the slightest, although it hasn't gotten as much use as I'd like. They have a great reputation and it fits you well.
On the other hand....
You said in your original post that your budget is €1000. The 686 is coming in at only a shade over that? If it even has the slightest edge in fit and feel over the Bettinsoli, I reckon you should push the boat out that slight bit.
But I can be blinded by brand names

fulladapipes

dos29, it's very tempting that Beretta....If I could get 100 cartridges and a slip case out of him as well, it might be a dealbreaker.

J.R.

I have a Betinsolli Sporter for clays...great gun, never any problems with it.

If I had the choice I'd stretch to the Beretta and if not I'd go for Betinsolli.



Have a look here:


Betinsolli Sporter s/h €799

http://www.sportsden.ie/guns/gun-showroom/shotguns/bettinsoli-u-o-30-trap-gun.html



Miroku €1,100 s/h

http://www.sportsden.ie/guns/gun-showroom/shotguns/miroku-3800tr-1-32-trap-gun.html


Browning A1 Spr 30" M/C €1,200


Betinsolli Sporter 30" M/C S/H Mint €900


Winchester Select 30" Spr S/H €800


Winchester 5500 30" Spr M/C Mint Gun €1,100


http://www.courtlough.ie/gunroom_guns.html

fulladapipes

Hi JR,

I was out with all those guys - very nice and helpful - but their websites are out of date...so in general what I went to see wasn't there. But I saw some other good stuff though, like the Beretta and indeed the Silma in both shops.

Looking like it's a matter of what I'm willing to pay: Beretta would be no.1; after that I liked the Silma but second barrel issue concerns me slightly (but if it was a once-off, then it is a nice gun); or the Bettinsoli.

FdP

It wasn't me!

Since you're in Dublin, spin out to Monkstown and talk to Neil McVeigh. He's always been good to me and typically carries a decent stock of second hand stuff.

dos29

If I could get 100 cartridges and a slip case out of him as well, it might be a dealbreaker

I dunno if a mere €30 worth of gear would be enough to sway me either way on a purchase this size .

fulladapipes

It wasn't me, I was with Neil in Monkstown yesterday: very helpful and again he had a new Silma and a gun made in Italy for Webley and Scott. Nice, but I was a bit wary of a no name gun.

dos29, yes that's a good point re the gunslip etc.

FdP

fulladapipes

Interim update:

I called into Stakelums in Thurles yesterday afternoon just as they were closing at four, but no problem, spent a while with a chap called Sean. Very helpful.

He showed me a Rizzini brand new - didn't get the model number but it was under €1,000. Good looking gun.

He also has a Beretta Silver Pigeon second hand for €1,195 (but I'd get it for less).

Both were nice guns, 30", M/C, and fitted me equally well - I suspect most people will say the Beretta, but figured I ask for any opinions anyway, it being a slow day here (where I am anyway) and all that...

FdP

MarkD.

fulladapipes wrote: »

Interim update:

I called into Stakelums in Thurles yesterday afternoon just as they were closing at four, but no problem, spent a while with a chap called Sean. Very helpful.

He showed me a Rizzini brand new - didn't get the model number but it was under €1,000. Good looking gun.

He also has a Beretta Silver Pigeon second hand for €1,195 (but I'd get it for less).

Both were nice guns, 30", M/C, and fitted me equally well - I suspect most people will say the Beretta, but figured I ask for any opinions anyway, it being a slow day here (where I am anyway) and all that...

FdP

Next day you go in there, dont look at price tags or name tags. Just pick up the gun with your eyes closed and see which one you automatically like.
Do this a few times and see which one you always go for. Then proceed to check the make of the gun. Dont be blinded by brands

fulladapipes

Thanks MarkD,

You're right and I'm trying to do that. It's difficult though for as soon as you go in they ask your budget and then they hand you a gun and say, there you go, that's a XXX for €900 or whatever! Immediately your head is filled with a brand name.

Having said that, the Silma M80 comes up trumps 'blind' as it were (I like the Schnaebel fore-end); and then the Beretta Onyx. Neither are ideal in terms of brand and/or resale and price (the Onyx being just over budget), but they seem the best fit for me.

Thanks again,

FdP

fulladapipes

Update: after a steep learning curve, I finally bought a brand new Bettinsoli Nexus from Paul O'Halloran in Tipperary. Actually, my mate bought one as well, so Paul gave us what seems like a good deal on them, throwing in pretty much everything I'd need (slip case, trigger lock etc) and over 200 cartridges each.

Pretty much everyone I visited over the last couple of weeks to look at guns/pester/ask silly questions was sound and very helpful. As were all the replies here.

Will post photos of the actual gun when it arrives. In the meantime, this is the Nexus (sorry, can't manage to get the photos in the actual post):

Tackleberrywho

fulladapipes wrote: »

Update: after a steep learning curve, I finally bought a brand new Bettinsoli Nexus from Paul O'Halloran in Tipperary. Actually, my mate bought one as well, so Paul gave us what seems like a good deal on them, throwing in pretty much everything I'd need (slip case, trigger lock etc) and over 200 cartridges each.

Pretty much everyone I visited over the last couple of weeks to look at guns/pester/ask silly questions was sound and very helpful. As were all the replies here.

Will post photos of the actual gun when it arrives. In the meantime, this is the Nexus (sorry, can't manage to get the photos in the actual post):

Welcome to the Club

fulladapipes

Finally got the licence the other day, so collected the Bettinsoli Nexus and all the gear. Have been out with it a couple of times since. I definitely need advice on how to attract/shoot the likes of crows, but that's for another thread maybe.

Gun has lovely timber for a budget firearm. Multi choked too: will need to experiment with them.

Hopefully I've managed to insert a couple of photos here...

Cass

Congrats on the new gun. She looks the business. Well wear.

homerhop

hope you have years of good and safe shooting with it, lovely looking gun.