Should atheists & non-practising Catholics be allowed to celebrate Christmas?

aaronjumper

Just as well my family, friends and I do not celebrate Christmas.
We celebrate "Swap presents, eat Turkey and have a few drinks" day.

Scuid Mhór

how many christians are there that actually celebrate christmas for what it's meant to be? christmas over the years has become a westernised cultural holiday more and more. i don't know if i even consider it a christian occasion anymore.

Killer Pigeon

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow, I thought Jakass was evangelising........


Reportsies. Mods, how about a Christmas/Hanukka/Solstice/Festivas/Chinese New Year Miracle?

You're reporting me? Oh holy equinox.

philologos

Overheal wrote: »

Seriously Christians, please shove off.

Based on what the OP said, you're saying that it is to do with every Christian, SRSLY?

For the most part I and others on this thread have said that others are nothing but welcome to celebrate Christmas but as a festival it still has a Christian character. The OP is greatly mistaken.

Caoimhín

aaronjumper wrote: »

Just as well my family, friends and I do not celebrate Christmas.
We celebrate "Swap presents, eat Turkey and have a few drinks" day.

Gasp! You mean you dont go to the temple to eat the flesh of a Jewish carpenter/creator of the universe?

KeithAFC

If people reallly loved Jesus and follow what he preached and said, they would allow Atheists and also non practising catholics to celebrate Christmas. Im sure Jesus would love them, regardless.

Ghost Buster

TheZohan wrote: »

Good thread OP, it raises some bigger questions.

• Should women be allowed to buy Man-Size tissues?
• Should girls be allowed Yorkie bars?
• Single people allowed buy "family pack" groceries?
• Scangers allowed use "Gents" & "Ladies"?

The list goes on...all serious business....

Can vegetarian Catholics receive communion?

Killer Pigeon

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

You're reporting me? Oh holy equinox.

Your original post just looked like

"YU R RONG AN AI AM RITE! I HOPE U AN YUR THOUGHT DAI LIKE THE SCUM IDEAS DEY R!"

The only difference between your posts and jakass's ones is that YOU SHOUTED!

Overheal

Jakkass wrote: »

Based on what the OP said, you're saying that it is to do with every Christian, SRSLY?

Did I say All Christians? Or did I just refer to Christians that act this way? Because I wrote the post all of 10 minutes ago, and I'm pretty sure I conveyed the latter.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Seriously Christians, please shove off.

You telling me to shove off too?

Has Atheism got the monopoly on being right?

Are you hoping Atheism becomes the State religion of boards.ie?

cournioni

bonerm wrote: »

I don't celebrate Christmas. I celebrate Cokemas. (the two are very similar in appearance).

Druggie. :pac:

CharlesHaughey

No way should they be allowed to IMO.

I would add to that list proddies, especially proddies.

kylith

Now make you merry gentlemen
Let nothing you dismay
Remember that the sun returns
On this, the Solstice day
To save us all from winter's thrall
He hasn't gone away
Oh tidings of comfort and joy, comfort and joy,
Oh tidings of comfort and joy!

krudler

CharlesHaughey wrote: »

No way should they be allowed to IMO.

I would add to that list proddies, especially proddies.

Oh no, its the ghost of christmas past, back for more money.

NothingMan

Jakkass wrote: »

For the most part I and others on this thread have said that others are nothing but welcome to celebrate Christmas but as a festival it still has a Christian character. The OP is greatly mistaken.

I feel that is very condescendig and insulting to welcome people to celebrate a time of year that they feel has nothing to do with your faith.

We may celebrate christmas, but not in the same way as you do and we do not need to be welcomed to celebrate it as a lot of us have strong feelings that conflict with your beliefs and would rather celebrate it as our own non-religious holiday than be welcomed to share yours.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote:

You telling me to shove off too?

Has Atheism got the monopoly on being right?

Are you hoping Atheism becomes the State religion of boards.ie?

Hi there,

My post has been edited to assist you

Furthermore Boards.ie isn't a state and that entire notion of yours is ridiculous. Why does any religion or belief need a monopoly? I reserve the right to be angry at certain exemplifications that wish to impress their views forcibly upon me or anyone. And I do push back, until they have their space and I have mine.

krudler wrote: »

Oh no, its the ghost of christmas past, back for more money.

That reminds me: Scrooge was never visited by the ghost of Jesus Christ

I suppose you could count the holy ghost or whatever and if you do, fine.

Last edited by Overheal; Today at 16:57. Reason: * Because people don't know how to read

You calling me stupid now?

(yes it's moot, I'm with you in hating the haters. But I hate the haters on both sides, militant Christians and militant Atheists with their "AI AM RITE AN U R RONG" attitude.

philologos

NothingMan I've been defending your right to celebrate Christmas, so lets not go looking to get offended! I didn't even say that I personally "welcomed" them if you read my post, I merely said that they were welcome to it, as welcome as anyone else.

Christmas ultimately has Christian origins, if it didn't it wouldn't bear that name.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

You calling me stupid now?

If I wanted to call you stupid, I would call you stupid. However as I have said already to Jakkass whom is actually a pretty reasonable guy, that he misread my post. And now so have you. Hence, it was edited for clarity.

Overheal

Jakkass wrote:

Christmas ultimately has Christian origins, if it didn't it wouldn't bear that name.

Actually there I respectfully disagree. The Evidence is in Ireland of all places, at Newgrange. Though I wouldnt argue that across history it's become a very Christian-oriented holiday in western society, due much in fact to the spread of Christianity, sure. The Solstice is an important time of year and always has been. I believe the Aztecs revered it appropriately as well. It makes sense that Christianity would also adopt the event and celebrate it in its own way, much of which has been adopted beyond religion as some pretty good ways to stay cheerful during the winter months.

CharlesHaughey

krudler wrote: »

Oh no, its the ghost of christmas past, back for more money.

I sacked Santa and laid off the elves.

philologos

Overheal wrote: »

Actually there I respectfully disagree. The Evidence is in Ireland of all places, at Newgrange.

It has some Christian roots, I've admitted that it has pagan origins also earlier in the thread.

seanbmc

Christmas has lost all it's so called meaning. It was orignally a pagan festival and nowadays Christmas is just a commercial holiday with little or no emphasis put on religion.

CharlesHaughey

That is the modern world for ya.

Overheal

seanbmc wrote: »

Christmas has lost all it's so called meaning. It was orignally a pagan festival and nowadays Christmas is just a commercial holiday with little or no emphasis put on religion.

That implies you regard it's religious meaning. I was never raised on it at all. For me it's about something that's bright and cheerful, and warm, during that cold and dark time of the year. whole neighbourhoods lit up by lights that would otherwise be cold, dark and vacant during the Winter. The warm glow of candles and a fresh tree right in your sitting room. I miss real trees, but they're so much work.

I believe that the inverse of that plays a significant role in why January is regarded as the most depressing month of the year with the highest rates of suicide. 2 months of darkness where the only thing to look forward to is valentines day which for anybody who isnt in a relationship is still rather depressing, and still very stresfful for those that are - especially when forgotten about

(PS: Why the christmas hat? <--- it keeps my head warm and cozy. Been wearing a real one every night for 3 weeks now!)

Killer Pigeon

Deleted User wrote: »

Your original post just looked like

"YU R RONG AN AI AM RITE! I HOPE U AN YUR THOUGHT DAI LIKE THE SCUM IDEAS DEY R!"

The only difference between your posts and jakass's ones is that YOU SHOUTED!

No, no, no! The words I used were a part of a very common message used by Atheists alike around Christmas. The signs are usually placed around main public building around Christmas in many towns in the US. I thought it would be fitting to post it here.
http://cwwatch.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/athiest-sign-at-wa-state.jpg
http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2009/12/22/at-this-season-of-the-winter-solstice/at-this-season-of-the-winter-solstice-2/

And I wasn't shouting, I was merely using different bold texts and alignments to make it look nice. You're just too touchy, an internet forum amateur I suppose.

Would you prefer my text to be a bit like this;

At this Season of the Winter Solstice. MAY REASON PREVAIL!! There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.

You see it looks at clumped together and boring.

seanbmc

Overheal wrote: »

That implies you regard it's religious meaning. I was never raised on it at all. For me it's about something that's bright and cheerful, and warm, during that cold and dark time of the year. whole neighbourhoods lit up by lights that would otherwise be cold, dark and vacant during the Winter. The warm glow of candles and a fresh tree right in your sitting room. I miss real trees, but they're so much work.

I believe that the inverse of that plays a significant role in why January is regarded as the most depressing month of the year with the highest rates of suicide. 2 months of darkness where the only thing to look forward to is valentines day which for anybody who isnt in a relationship is still rather depressing, and still very stresfful for those that are - especially when forgotten about

(PS: Why the christmas hat? <--- it keeps my head warm and cozy. Been wearing a real one every night for 3 weeks now!)

Completely agree, I was raised on it's religious meaning but now I associate it with the things you named above.

iamstop

maxxie wrote: »

Are all priests child abusers?

I believe so.

I believe it is child abuse to brain wash a child with all they do. :mad:

I remember reading a story somewhere about there being a case about religion class being deemed child abuse.

philologos

iamstop wrote: »

I remember reading a story somewhere about there being a case about religion class being deemed child abuse.

O RLY? :P

Killer Pigeon

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Would you prefer my text to be a bit like this;

At this Season of the Winter Solstice. MAY REASON PREVAIL!! There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.

Yeah pretty much. People believe different than you, so let them believe different than you. Don't pester them about it. That goes for whatever flag you fly.

Live and let live yall.

iamstop

iamstop wrote: »

I believe it is child abuse to brain wash a child with all they do. :mad:

Pretty much means every single parent out there is ABUSING their child by BRAINWASHING them to think like their parents are teaching them.

Sweeping jackbooting generalisations FTL

Fighting Irish

Johnny Utah wrote: »

It seems to me that the true meaning of Christmas is lost on some people. Should atheists and non-practising Catholics be allowed to partake in festive celebrations, attend mass on Christmas day, receive presents and have days off work, even though they clearly have no belief in God/religion?

If so, seems quite hypocritical to me.

lol

Who's gonna stop them

Killer Pigeon

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah pretty much. People believe different than you, so let them believe different than you. Don't pester them about it. That goes for whatever flag you fly.

Live and let live yall.

A bit like singing religion based christmas carols. "Oh, the lyrics are contravening my beliefs I must report you."

If I was a Christian would you report me for posting the following;

Long time ago in Bethlehem
So the holy bible say
Mary's boy child Jesus Christ
Was born on Christmas day

Chorus
Hark now hear the angels sing
A new king born today
And man will live forever more
Because of Christmas day

While shepards watched their flocks by night
Them see a bright new shining star
Them hear the choir sing the music
Seem to come from afar
Now joseph and his wife mary come to bethelehm that night
Them find no place to born the child
Not a single room was in sight

Chorus

By and by they find a little nook
In a stable lowful lone
In a manger cold and dark
Mary's little boy was born

Chorus

Trumpets sound and angels sing!
Listen to what they say
And man will life forever more
Because of Christmas day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7-4GC828rM

SeaSlaker, I think not. Simple because of your bias.

Wazdakka

How have I not seen this thread all day?

Epic Job OP..

iamstop

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty much means every single parent out there is ABUSING their child by BRAINWASHING them to think like their parents are teaching them.

Don't be silly, that was last generation. Our parents renounced religion because it was literally beaten into them and chose not to inflict it so harshly on us. Now those of us who are having kids are even less involved with the church and many are choosing non denominational schools....FTW. :P

strobe

Well it was only a matter of time before this thread came to AH. It's had a run in A&A, Humanities and I think I saw it in one or two others as well.

On a lighter note, if anyone would like to simultaneously lol and rage this festive season I have the perfect Winterfest movie for you all, possibly screen written by the OP.

Warning: Contains a Baldwin brother

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xayDw2gS7-0

strobe

strobe wrote: »

Well it was only a matter of time before this thread came to AH. It's had a run in A&A, Humanities and I think I saw it in one or two others as well.

You said it. It's "CONVERT DEH INFIDELS" by the back door, much like that Jim Corr thread was "LEZ RANT ABOUT DEH ECONOMY" by the back door.

Angry people shout a lot. And then try to argue "AI AM RITE AN YU ARE RONG" while the major question "does it really matter?" is left far, far behind.

Killer Pidgeon, have some Iron Maiden lyrics.

Torches blazed and
sacred chants were phrased
as they start to cry
hands held to the sky
In the night
the fires are burning bright
the ritual has begun
Satan's work is done
6-6-6 the Number of the Beast
Sacrifice is going on tonight

This can't go on
I must inform the law
Can this still be real
or just some crazy dream?
but I feel drawn
towards the chanting hordes
seem to mesmerise...can't avoid their eyes
6-6-6 the Number of the Beast
6-6-6 the one for you and me

I'm coming back
I will return
And I'll possess your body
and I'll make you burn
I'll have the fire
I'll have the force
I'll have the power
to make my evil take its course

It's a frickin song. I'm Christian. I like the above song. You know why? I think it rocks.

Chill.

CrazyRabbit

Perhaps the Christians should celebrate the birth of Jesus in the month he was actually born....September. It's widely accepted that he wasn't born on Dec 25th. The date was simply moved to coincide with the pagan festival on that date.

This way, the Christians can celebrate the true birthday of Jesus and the rest of us can have the highly commercial and atheistic 25th December.

aligator_am

Well considering that Christmas is a fairy tale that's turned in to an event where people try to outspend each other then I don't see an issue with anyone "celebrating" it.

As with pretty much all of the Christian system, it's a pack of lies, stolen from the "pagans" and has become incredibly Americanised over the past few decades, and unfortunately there are still lots of families out there stupid enough to put themselves in debt to buy lavish gifts for their kids, thick fcuks.

Balls to the lot of it, it's just another day!

Don't ya just love this time of year

Overheal

strobe wrote: »

Well it was only a matter of time before this thread came to AH. It's had a run in A&A, Humanities and I think I saw it in one or two others as well.

On a lighter note, if anyone would like to simultaneously lol and rage this festive season I have the perfect Winterfest movie for you all, possibly screen written by the OP.

Warning: Contains a Baldwin brother

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xayDw2gS7-0

What a horribly misleading film. Whats worse is they politicize it at the end and further play into this idea that among other things the United States should be a Christian State. Bla bla bla.

The only thing they get right is that the 'villain' is tired of having nativity scenes and God references shoved down his throat. Brings me back to the debates about having the Ten Commandments enshrined on the walls of Government Buildings. Or the 'Under God' line implanted in the Pledge of Allegiance during the Cold War.

Agricola

Great thread. Seeing the utter contempt that modern Ireland holds for organised religion is very enjoyable! From a nation of God fearing mass goers to a nation of hard nosed atheists in a generation. What a achievement by the catholic church!

philologos

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Perhaps the Christians should celebrate the birth of Jesus in the month he was actually born....September. It's widely accepted that he wasn't born on Dec 25th. The date was simply moved to coincide with the pagan festival on that date.

This way, the Christians can celebrate the true birthday of Jesus and the rest of us can have the highly commercial and atheistic 25th December.

We don't know when Jesus was born. Although it is better to celebrate this in some way, rather than in no way given how important His arrival into the world was, and indeed the fact that the world was never the same again after He did arrive. This is one thing that people can't deny about Jesus really. That He transformed the world by His arrival.

Agricola wrote:

Great thread. Seeing the utter contempt that modern Ireland holds for organised religion is very enjoyable! From a nation of God fearing mass goers to a nation of hard nosed atheists in a generation. What a achievement by the catholic church!

It's unfortunate to see that people assume blindly that it is between Catholicism or atheism. You do realise that there are numerous other churches operating in this country? "The church" and other such phrases don't adequately refer to Christianity as a whole because there are numerous churches in Ireland.

seniorolaighin

crucify them and re - incarnate them as catholics.

Agricola

Jakkass wrote: »

It's unfortunate to see that people assume blindly that it is between Catholicism or atheism. You do realise that there are numerous other churches operating in this country? "The church" and other such phrases don't adequately refer to Christianity as a whole because there are numerous churches in Ireland.

In the great debate about atheists and non-practising catholics celebrating christmas, we're talking specifically about the roman catholic church. That is afterall, the religion that the vast majority of people here were born into and now it seems the vast majority have abandoned.....with a vengeance.

philologos

Are we talking specifically about the RCC when we are talking about Christmas? - A lot of Christians (who aren't members of the RCC) celebrate Christmas as Jesus' coming into the world. So it isn't just an RCC issue.

KeithAFC

Perhaps people should take away the god thing with Jesus and just follow his Philosophy?

philologos

KeithAFC wrote: »

Perhaps people should take away the god thing with Jesus and just follow his Philosophy?

His "philosophy" is tied up with God. In following one, you have to follow the other.

It's about what is true rather than just what I'd like to be true. This is why one can't ignore God as being a real possibility or indeed a sensible possibility.

lyverbird1

I say take back Christmas for the pagans! It was hijacked from them anyway...

KeithAFC

Jakkass wrote: »

His "philosophy" is tied up with God. In following one, you have to follow the other.

It's about what is true rather than just what I'd like to be true. This is why one can't ignore God as being a real possibility or indeed a sensible possibility.

Well he did say some things which weren't about god. Anyway, he sounded like a nice man.

philologos

KeithAFC wrote: »

Well he did say some things which weren't about god. Anyway, he sounded like a nice man.

Very little in reading was said in the absence of reference to God, or God's Kingdom. Christianity without God is not anything really.