New Bank of Ireland fees to hit more customers

Basq

New BoI fees to hit more customers
By Charlie Weston Personal Finance Editor
Wednesday December 22 2010

BAILED-out Bank of Ireland was accused last night of squeezing its one million customers for extra income.

Days before Christmas, the bank has admitted it has made changes which will result in some customers paying fees and charges for the first time.

Up to now, customers were able to avoid the fees by making minimal use of their bank account. But now the bank will impose fees on current account customers who fail to meet stringent new rules.

Customers will have to make at least nine payments every quarter through their current accounts. If they do not meet this target they will be hit with charges and fees for using their bank accounts.

Last night the bank admitted that the changes due to come into effect in February are likely to see thousands of current account customers paying fees for the first time.

At the moment anyone who keeps a balance of at least €500 in their current account or makes three payments every three months qualifies for free banking.

But from February 21, account holders will have to have at least €1,000 a month going into their account and make nine payments or more every quarter.

Customers who do not meet the new criteria will be charged 28c per transaction.

A spokeswoman for the bank admitted it was attempting to pass on some of the costs of running current accounts to its customers, despite the bank getting €3.5bn from taxpayers in a bailout.

Qualify

But it insisted that the majority of its customers would still qualify for free banking using its Pay As You Go and Flat Fee current accounts.

Last night, the radical change in the terms and conditions of bank's current account was condemned by Dermott Jewell of the Consumers' Association.

Mr Jewell, the chief executive of the independent consumer lobby group, accused the bank of hitting consumers on the double.

Source: Independent.ie

Bad news for anyone in BoI who gets paid fortnightly / monthly surely.

Means a lodgement practically every week to quality for "free banking".

jester77

Sounds like salary coming in and 3 transactions a month would cover it.

So rent/mortgage, credit card payment and 1 utility bill should cover it?

pawrick

Just read on Aertel that they are making it more difficult for people to have free day to day fees on their current accounts.

Increasing the minimum balance required from 500 to 3000, minimum amount going in must be 1000 per month and also the number of payments per 3 month period increased from 3 to 9 to qualify!!!! Basically most current account holders who now have reduced fees will no longer.

This is in effect a tax on people who can least afford it - well done BOI this will really help the peoples opinion of your business doing it at this time.

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/106-01.html

and here too

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/bank-of-ireland-introduces-more-charges-486598.html

dudara

Moved to Banking & Insurance & Pensions and merged with existing thread

dudara

Cookie_Monster

jester77 wrote: »

Sounds like salary coming in and 3 transactions a month would cover it.

So rent/mortgage, credit card payment and 1 utility bill should cover it?

yep, very easily covered.
I don't think this is a big deal at all tbh. Just media jumping on the "fuck the banks" bandwagon again.

pawrick

I think it's a big deal as I don't leave money sitting in my current account but now I'm going to be affected by the charges unless I leave a min of 3000 sitting there every month - it's pretty wasteful leaving money sitting in a current account when there are better rates elsewhere. I also know a lot of people who would be unemployed and would not have 1000 euro coming in, married couples too who have separate bank accounts may not have that many transactions etc. the least affected would be single working people. Alll in all it won't greatly affect me but I think it will hit the people who can least afford it most and it's just bad PR from a company which could do with it the least.

jamezy

Does anyone know of a fairer bank or at least a bank with slightly less BS charges? Considering switching from BOI.

snubbleste

All the other banks are going to follow this move

Jet Black

Still fee free with no hoops to jump through with Ulster bank. I closed my current account with BOI in 2007 and have not paid a cent on my current account since then.

BOIs stricter criteria means they are only giving out a fraction of mortgages, loans and credit cards. Current account holders are now pretty much paying for the banks falling profits. Its going to be a return to the complacent banking system we had ten years ago.

Mundane

Jet Black wrote: »

Still fee free with no hoops to jump through with Ulster bank. I closed my current account with BOI in 2007 and have not paid a cent on my current account since then.

BOIs stricter criteria means they are only giving out a fraction of mortgages, loans and credit cards. Current account holders are now pretty much paying for the banks falling profits. Its going to be a return to the complacent banking system we had ten years ago.

Do Ulster Bank still offer "no fee" current accounts to new customers? What's their online banking like?

While I'd meet the criteria of BoI, I'm not impressed with their actions and I'm seriously considering a move.

How Strange

I'm a bit confused about these new charges. Myself and my husband have just opened a joint current account with BOI. We still have our own current accounts where our salaries are paid into and our respective personal loans, credit cards etc are paid through.

Our plan was to move all household expenses (utilities, shopping, mortgage, insurance, toll tag etc) over to the new account and we'd both pay in a fixed amount every month, probably around €200/300 each.

So with these new charges, would I be better transferring €1000 over every month, paying my credit card from the joint account, transferring an amount for savings etc and using it for our joint household expenses?

Would this be sufficient to avoid the charges or do I need to keep a balance of €1000 per month/€3000 per quarter in the account? I wouldn't even have that kind of balance in my own current account after being paid and then paying bills, saving money etc.

dotsman

basquille wrote: »

Bad news for anyone in BoI who gets paid fortnightly / monthly surely.

Means a lodgement practically every week to quality for "free banking".

Don't think you are understanding what the conditions are. You have to make 9 transactions every 3 months. That's 3 transactions a month. Anybody not doing 3 transactions per month on an account is not using that account.

pawrick wrote: »

Basically most current account holders who now have reduced fees will no longer.

Basically, most current account holders will not be affected. Only those who never really use their accounts need be concerned.

pawrick wrote: »

This is in effect a tax on people who can least afford it - well done BOI this will really help the peoples opinion of your business doing it at this time.

This is not a tax on poor people. This is a business charging customers who are currently costing the business a lot of money.

pawrick wrote: »

I think it's a big deal as I don't leave money sitting in my current account but now I'm going to be affected by the charges unless I leave a min of 3000 sitting there every month

Why not just use your account? Carrying out the most basic, mundane actions on the account will mean it's still free.

Jet Black wrote: »

Still fee free with no hoops to jump through with Ulster bank. I closed my current account with BOI in 2007 and have not paid a cent on my current account since then.

Ulster bank will follow. Free banking is a loss leader. It was a ridiculous concept that was introduced by the foreign banks, championed by the media and drove the irish banks to where they are today.

Jet Black wrote: »

BOIs stricter criteria means they are only giving out a fraction of mortgages, loans and credit cards.

Not quite sure where this came from. One has little to do with the other.

Jet Black wrote: »

Current account holders are now pretty much paying for the banks falling profits. Its going to be a return to the complacent banking system we had ten years ago.

Yes, generally, it does fall on customers to provide a company with profits. I believe that may be the reason why businesses are started in the first place.

amacachi

Must one also have at least a grand in to avoid the fees? That'll rape a fair few students withdrawing a tenner at a time unless the student accounts are being left unaffected.

snaps

Ive been considering leaving BOI for a long time to go to the Ulster bank. Looks like this is the clincher, will move all my banking from them.

keithclancy

Donate 10 cent every money to three charities of your choice ?

Dodge

dotsman wrote: »

Basically, most current account holders will not be affected. Only those who never really use their accounts need be concerned.
...
This is not a tax on poor people. This is a business charging customers who are currently costing the business a lot of money.

So how much does it cost to maintain an account that has 8 or less payments in a quarter?

joeKel73

I looks like these charges will only be felt by those who can least afford it. :mad: Students, unemployed and those on low wages will not have €1000 sitting in their account.

I'm a student and will be looking at other options now.

EDIT: Just heard on radio that student accounts are exempt!

dotsman

amacachi wrote: »

Must one also have at least a grand in to avoid the fees? That'll rape a fair few students withdrawing a tenner at a time unless the student accounts are being left unaffected.

It's (maintain a minimum balance of 3,000 throughout the quarter) OR (have minimum 3,000 lodged to account over the quarter and 9 transactions)

This is on standard current accounts. It has nothing to do with student/graduate/pensioner etc accounts.

Dodge wrote: »

So how much does it cost to maintain an account that has 8 or less payments in a quarter?

About the same as an account with lots of transactions and/or a high credit balance, except the bank actually get to make a little bit of money out of those accounts.

foto joe wrote: »

I looks like these charges will only be felt by those who can least afford it. :mad: Students, unemployed and those on low wages will not have €1000 sitting in their account.

I'm a student and will be looking at other options now.

EDIT: Just heard on radio that student accounts are exempt!

I'm not sure where you are getting the "€1,000 sitting in their account". It only has to be lodged. Even someone living entirely on Social Welfare will be able to lodge €1,00 per month.

AS I said before, this only impacts people who are no using their accounts. Regardless of how rich/poor, young/old etc a person is. They can easily meet these criteria if they are bothered.

Jet Black

dotsman wrote: »

Ulster bank will follow. Free banking is a loss leader. It was a ridiculous concept that was introduced by the foreign banks, championed by the media and drove the irish banks to where they are today.

I also believe they will, but at the moment its still free. It was far from a ridiculous concept. At the time banks were raking it in. I hardly think it was free current accounts that has got the banks to were they are today.

Not quite sure where this came from. One has little to do with the other.

Not really, banks could afford to offer free banking. This was thanks to the interest charged on their other products.

Yes, generally, it does fall on customers to provide a company with profits. I believe that may be the reason why businesses are started in the first place.

No need for the smart answer. Not the point I was even making. My point is customers are now paying even more for the mistakes of the bank.

joeKel73

dotsman wrote: »

I'm not sure where you are getting the "€1,000 sitting in their account". It only has to be lodged. Even someone living entirely on Social Welfare will be able to lodge €1,00 per month.

Ok I miss read that. I still don't agree with you though.

Someone on the full dole would be on €188 x ~4weeks = ~€752/month.
As a student I'd have even less than that going in.

dotsman wrote: »

Regardless of how rich/poor, young/old etc a person is. They can easily meet these criteria if they are bothered.

I am bothered - how do I meet the criteria?

dotsman

Jet Black wrote: »

I also believe they will, but at the moment its still free. It was far from a ridiculous concept. At the time banks were raking it in. I hardly think it was free current accounts that has got the banks to were they are today.

Don't get me wrong, free banking on it's own didn't bring about the collapse of the banks. However it was a symptom of the crisis to come. Faced by pressure from incoming competitors as well as the media, banks offered free banking as a loss leader, making up that money on large-scale lending, the majority of which was to property developers.

When a business starts offering one of its main products for free, questions have to be asked. It's no different to supermarkets offering bread, milk and cereals etc for free or restaurants offering the main course for free.

Jet Black wrote: »

Not really, banks could afford to offer free banking. This was thanks to the interest charged on their other products.

Yes, primarily property development loans. With regards personal lending, again due to competitive/media pressure, banks made/make a lot less per euro lent than they did. Indeed, a lot of the money lent out has now turned out to be loss-making (tracker mortgages etc)

Jet Black wrote: »

No need for the smart answer. Not the point I was even making. My point is customers are now paying even more for the mistakes of the bank.

But they are not paying "more". They are paying less than what they used to (prior to the banking bad years of the last 5-10 years). The fact of the matter is that they should have been paying all along.

foto joe wrote: »

Ok I miss read that. I still don't agree with you though.

Someone on the full dole would be on €188 x ~4weeks = ~€752/month.
As a student I'd have even less than that going in.



I am bothered - how do I meet the criteria?

As a student, you should have a student account. Therefore this does not affect in you in any way.

With regards the social welfare recipient, they would receive €188*13 = €2,444 per quarter. That leaves them €556 short over a 13 week period. However, many social welfare recipients are in receipt of other payments, child benefit, single parent allowance, rent allowance, fuel allowance etc. Most welfare recipients will be in receipt of a lot more than the €2,444 per quarter.

Finally, if all else fails and a customer happens to be one of the very few who have income of less than €3,000 per quarter, there's nothing to stop them lodging money, withdrawing it and lodging it again.

NWPat

Bank charges are a joke, more and more people are banking online doing their own account administration. The bank earns interest on your deposits and should pay you interest. In my opinion only accounts in debt should be subject to charges. This is just an attempt to make the average punter pay for the mistakes the bank has made.

MsUnderhill

jester77 wrote: »

Sounds like salary coming in and 3 transactions a month would cover it.

So rent/mortgage, credit card payment and 1 utility bill should cover it?

Not if you're paying them all by direct debit - from the new terms and conditions:

"3. Direct debits and Standing orders do not qualify as valid transactions for the purpose of this offer."

updated terms and conditions in full are available here

It's nor an 'and/or' situation - it's a minimum of €3000 lodgement AND 9 debit transactions - only debit transactions I have that are NOT direct debits is my VISA bill - so that's 3 qualifying transactions. Plus one more for my phone bill (every two months). Looks like no free banking for me unless I find some new debits to make.

Suspect there will be quite a few BOI account holders in the same boat

Basq

MsUnderhill wrote: »

It's nor an 'and/or' situation - it's a minimum of €3000 lodgement AND 9 debit transactions - only debit transactions I have that are NOT direct debits is my VISA bill - so that's 3 qualifying transactions. Plus one more for my phone bill (every two months). Looks like no free banking for me unless I find some new debits to make.

Think you mean balance.

MsUnderhill

basquille wrote: »

Think you mean balance.

"Over the course of a fee quarter, lodge at least €3,000 to your Personal Current Account AND make 9 debit payments from that account using Banking 365 Phone and/or Online.
(This is the equivalent of €1,000 net salary lodgement per month and 3 payments made per month)

Or

Maintain a minimum credit balance of €3,000 in your Personal Current Account throughout the full fee quarter "
from BOI T&Cs

Dodge

MsUnderhill wrote: »

Suspect there will be quite a few BOI account holders in the same boat

My wife is certainly. All payments made by direct debit.

We'll see if the banks are willing to compete again if one of them cmes out with a no fees type advertsing

delos

Currently, when I get paid I go online and move money between two current accounts three times back and forth and that covers my free banking (overkill I know but I forgot one month and was quite annoyed about paying fees). In the new year I'll just do that 9 times rather than 3 times and be sorted. I might have to move a grand over and back a few times rather than the €1 I do at the moment as I'm not sure if it is €3000 per account or just €3000. I suspect the former.

Where it will get sticky is if you don't have a job because that €3000 a quarter lodgement will be hard to make - so it is harder for the less well off to manage but 20 years here has taught me that this is always the way it will be with the poorer sections of spciety picking up the bill. If I lose my job I'll probably leave the account dormant or close it because those 28 cent wil add up.

joeKel73

dotsman wrote: »

Most welfare recipients will be in receipt of a lot more than the €2,444 per quarter.

I'd be v surprised if that's true!

dotsman

foto joe wrote: »

I'd be v surprised if that's true!

Why is that so hard to believe? The only people who receive jobseeker's allowance only are those who are single, have no children and still live with their parents. Renting a place? That's rent supplement. Own a place? That's Mortgage Allowance and/or mortgage interest supplement. Have a child? That's an increase in your jobseeker's and child benefit. Have a child and not married (and typically the woman)? That's Single Parent's Allowance.

There's a tonne of different welfare payments, of which jobseeker's is only one. I would imagine most unemployed people are in receipt of several different schemes.

Dodge

Any chance you could find data to back it up?

Don't forget that most unemployed with spouse working are entitled to far less than €180 pw

(oh and we're off the point here...)

Toots

Dodge wrote: »

Any chance you could find data to back it up?

Don't forget that most unemployed with spouse working are entitled to far less than €180 pw

(oh and we're off the point here...)

Indeed we are

Let's try and keep it on topic everyone.