New Bank of Ireland fees to hit more customers

macjohn

delos wrote: »

Currently, when I get paid I go online and move money between two current accounts three times back and forth and that covers my free banking (overkill I know but I forgot one month and was quite annoyed about paying fees). In the new year I'll just do that 9 times rather than 3 times and be sorted. I might have to move a grand over and back a few times rather than the €1 I do at the moment as I'm not sure if it is €3000 per account or just €3000. I suspect the former.

Where it will get sticky is if you don't have a job because that €3000 a quarter lodgement will be hard to make - so it is harder for the less well off to manage but 20 years here has taught me that this is always the way it will be with the poorer sections of spciety picking up the bill. If I lose my job I'll probably leave the account dormant or close it because those 28 cent wil add up.

Will this just mean everyone will just break up their payments? example if your credit card bill is say €900 then make 3 X €300 payments instead of one €900 payment. (nothing in the terms and conditions so far to suggest that multiple payments to same account aren't allowed to count in the 9 per quarter)

(Als0 my current account is my main account but because most transactions are via standing orders and direct debts I wouldn't normally make 9 extra online transactions a quarter - I would still contend that I am actively using the account)

Jessibelle

Does the 28c per transaction include direct debit payments? I wouldn't meet these new criteria for free banking and tbh would only now keep my BOI account for convienience for the dd set up on it, but if I'm going to be charged 28c for each payment out, the account will be closed and I'll set them up elsewhere.

snaps

Im really confused? So Direct debits/standing orders dont count as transactions? Also i thought it was a minimum of 1,000e a quarter you had to have in your current account, and you have to lodge 3,000e a quarter as well to receive free banking?

How Strange

I think excluding direct debits and standing orders is mean spirited and deliberately designed to catch most current account holders out. I'd imagine most people now pay utility bills as well as most other bills by direct debit and standing order. Also if dd's and so's and atm/laser transactions don't count then what does count?

Also, if most people use online banking now, I certainly do, then why is there an administration fee of 28c on transactions as the banks aren't actually providing us with the service directly via staff at a branch.

I'm going to ring the consumer agency this morning about it because I'm totally confused.

skinner2x

macjohn wrote: »

Will this just mean everyone will just break up their payments? example if your credit card bill is say €900 then make 3 X €300 payments instead of one €900 payment. (nothing in the terms and conditions so far to suggest that multiple payments to same account aren't allowed to count in the 9 per quarter)

(Als0 my current account is my main account but because most transactions are via standing orders and direct debts I wouldn't normally make 9 extra online transactions a quarter - I would still contend that I am actively using the account)

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/banks-happy-to-play-role-of-pantomime-villain-for-a-fee-2471597.html

well if I read it right , you'll need a min of 1000 € balance/month.
So if direct debits and standings orders don't count as transactions under the 9 payments, how can they charge them as transaction?
to me its looks like an attempt to gain some capital in the banks. The more of those 1000's they have , the more they can lend out.
It sticks in the craw, but these might be the kind of things that will free up credit again for businesses...

Cabaal

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yep, very easily covered.
I don't think this is a big deal at all tbh. Just media jumping on the "fuck the banks" bandwagon again.

You've a very short sighted view, :rolleyes:

Take an unemployed person,
- They are not going to have the amount of money coming into their account needed to meet the requirments

- As they are unemployed they are less likely to have internet access at home, factor in the lack of availability of internet access in Ireland this means they are unlikely to be using on-line banking.

In addition to the above they will likely lodge and pay bills on the same day they collection their social welfare, they will likely do this by physically visiting the bank.

So bottom line is they are very unlikely to meet the requirments to avoid the 28c per transaction fee.

In short, the people that can least afford these charges will get nailed for them.

Yes its not a big deal...for those with internet access and in steady employment. The consumer associations comments are spot on in relation to this issue.

Obliq

Cabaal wrote: »

You've a very short sighted view, :rolleyes:

Take an unemployed person,
- They are not going to have the amount of money coming into their account needed to meet the requirments

- As they are unemployed they are less likely to have internet access at home, factor in the lack of availability of internet access in Ireland this means they are unlikely to be using on-line banking.

In addition to the above they will likely lodge and pay bills on the same day they collection their social welfare, they will likely do this by physically visiting the bank.

So bottom line is they are very unlikely to meet the requirments to avoid the 28c per transaction fee.

In short, the people that can least afford these charges will get nailed for them.

Yes its not a big deal...for those with internet access and in steady employment. The consumer associations comments are spot on in relation to this issue.

Thank you Cabaal - That's me in a nutshell....except I HAVE internet, just don't want to be forced into 365 online banking. I haven't enough coming in to meet the free banking criteria, and am demeaned by the suggestion given to me by the customer complaints section in BOI that I should escape the charges by moving money between accounts (I have ONE account, in order not to pay charges on two). This is clearly a way to herd out the less well off - otherwise why not slap transaction charges on everybody? And while they're at it, the Govt. should slap on a (weighted?) tax on transactions to claw back some money from the banks....although I realise that would automatically be passed on to the people, I would agree to the charges if they were for EVERYBODY.
As of today, I have cancelled all direct debits and am closing my account. I will exist without a cash card, and will pay bills in cash. Credit Union here I come! I refuse to take this insult lying down.

Gulliver

Lest I get trampled by all the people on high horses on this thread.... this is a big deal to some people.

I won't qualify for free banking. I get €7.10 JA a week. As my wife works over 29 hours a week, I don't get mortgage allowance. No children.

The snobby attitude of some people on here is just ridiculous. I don't want to be on the fcuking dole.

How Strange

OK, I just rang BOI to check what it all means as I have two current a/cs; one personal and one joint. I also have a BOI cr card and two savings accounts.

She said to qualify for free banking I would have to do either of these two scenarios:
a) have a balance of €3k per quarter or
b) lodge €1k per month and have at least 9 transactions/payments per quarter done over banking 365 or phone self service banking so mobile top ups, payments to credit cards, transfers to other accounts qualify. DD's and SO's, laser and atm transactions don't qualify as payments. That seems very bizarre to me and as I said previously, intentionally mean spirited and calculated on behalf of BOI management.

The 9 transactions can all be done on the one day and you have to do the 9 transactions (transfer money between your accounts, credit card etc) over internet banking or phone self service.

So essentially it seems to be an exercise in moving money between your accounts.

I'm not saying its not a big deal for some people as perhaps alot of people are pinned to their collar and if they get €1k per month it could disappear as fast as it appears into their account. I must check with my parents if they have a BOI current account as my mam in particular would never use internet banking.

Obliq

You can sing it buddy! Hang in there...

Cookie_Monster

Looks like it won't just be BOI

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/surviving-the-recession/banks-to-hit-all-customers-with-raft-of-new-charges-2471660.html

Cookie_Monster

Take an unemployed person,
- They are not going to have the amount of money coming into their account needed to meet the requirments

withdraw it and lodge it hte next day

- As they are unemployed they are less likely to have internet access at home, factor in the lack of availability of internet access in Ireland this means they are unlikely to be using on-line banking.

phone banking

Cabaal wrote: »

In addition to the above they will likely lodge and pay bills on the same day they collection their social welfare, they will likely do this by physically visiting the bank.

So bottom line is they are very unlikely to meet the requirments to avoid the 28c per transaction fee.

In short, the people that can least afford these charges will get nailed for them.

Yes its not a big deal...for those with internet access and in steady employment. The consumer associations comments are spot on in relation to this issue.

28c per trans is still good value for easy ATM access, debit and/or credit cards and all the other services offered IMO.
If you still want it free just move bank...

skinner2x

Notification from BOI attached.
http://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/fs/doc/wysiwyg/Notification_to_BOI_Personal_Current_Account_Holders.pdf

Obliq

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

withdraw it and lodge it hte next day

phone banking

28c per trans is still good value for easy ATM access, debit and/or credit cards and all the other services offered IMO.
If you still want it free just move bank...

But wealthier people will have free banking. I don't object to transaction fees, just that it's insulting and demeaning that my bank would require me to do that, when better off people don't have to fart around with stupid little lodgements to escape them. I'm leaving BOI. Cancelled my direct debits yesterday and will return to paying bills in cash.....also phoned customer complaints (rather than laying it on my local bank teller!) and gave them an earful.

BOI won't miss my account, which regularly hovers around 500 (lone parent of 2 kids, yes, one of THOSE!), but they will miss my father and brother who are also leaving on principal.

Obliq

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

withdraw it and lodge it hte next day

phone banking

28c per trans is still good value for easy ATM access, debit and/or credit cards and all the other services offered IMO.
If you still want it free just move bank...

...and as for withdraw and lodge the next day, you are imagining someone who does not have to wait for the child benefit to pay the bills, and does not have to buy food/petrol/fuel 5 mins after the lone parents comes in, right?
On any given thursday, I have less than 50 cash after these requirements to last through the week while supporting 2 kids. I am not complaining or whinging - this is my life, and I'm proud as hell at how well I manage my money and avoid debt. That is why it is all the more INSULTING that this charge should ONLY be for the likes of me, in terms of wealth.

flutered

many moons ago when we decided to move to the credit union it lookes as tho we made the correct call, admittedly their interest on deposits are not great, their interest on loans ditto, but one gets quite amount of free banking.

Obliq

flutered wrote: »

many moons ago when we decided to move to the credit union it lookes as tho we made the correct call, admittedly their interest on deposits are not great, their interest on loans ditto, but one gets quite amount of free banking.

That's exactly where I'm going flutered! It'll be inconvenient, in terms of no cash card or cheque books, but at least I'll be valued as a classless human, unlike the 2nd class human BOI have just catagorised me as.

flutered

Obliq wrote: »

That's exactly where I'm going flutered! It'll be inconvenient, in terms of no cash card or cheque books, but at least I'll be valued as a classless human, unlike the 2nd class human BOI have just catagorised me as.

they do have cash cards, if you need a loan you get it no probs, if one fall behind they will not harass you, i posted here on boards a long time ago that if people voted with their feet the banks would cop on, a customer should be able to use a banking facility not the other way around.

Dodge

Not all have bank cards in fairness.

Still a great facility

Cabaal

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

withdraw it and lodge it hte next day

People have bills to pay, many people will get money from postoffice and pay bills and IF they have any left they will lodge it in the bank.

Given people are already living on feck all waiting a day isn't really a do-able solution when you have to buy food.

phone banking

Suggestion makes no sense,
They are already likely to be able to physically visit the bank so why should they waste money calling a non-freephone number? Also they likely paid the ESB etc in the post office

28c per trans is still good value for easy ATM access, debit and/or credit cards and all the other services offered IMO.

Hmm not really.
28c fee has no affect on your credit card,
You still pay credit card goverment levy 30-40e, you still pay laser card levy of 7e to the gov.

28c a transaction can mount up very very quickly and adds alot of needless costs to a person already in money trouble. Its the same as a 4e reduction in the social welfare creates problems for people.

tbh your not actually thinking through how it will affect people who are on the breadline already, these people don't want to be on the dole but they have to live at the same time and extra bill can cause them problems.

Pj!

If somebody transferred €1000 from their credit card account to their bank account each month and transferred it straight back via numerous payments (ie in 4 €250 amounts) would this result in the avoidance of fees?

Cabaal

Pj! wrote: »

If somebody transferred €1000 from their credit card account to their bank account each month and transferred it straight back via numerous payments (ie in 4 €250 amounts) would this result in the avoidance of fees?

eer wouldn't you be charged fee's for using your credit card for cash transactions though?

Pablo Sanchez

Say you normally transfer 100 a month to a savings account, could you not get the 3 transactions by simply transfering 33.33 x3?

Am i missing somthing here or is it not costlier for the bank to have accounts with lots of transactions rather than none?

Pj!

Cabaal wrote: »

eer wouldn't you be charged fee's for using your credit card for cash transactions though?

Hmmmmmm. The buggers.

What if your credit card is in credit to the tune of the €1000? Are fee's still charged?

muletide

When does this take effect ?

Obliq

flutered wrote: »

they do have cash cards, if you need a loan you get it no probs, if one fall behind they will not harass you, i posted here on boards a long time ago that if people voted with their feet the banks would cop on, a customer should be able to use a banking facility not the other way around.

;)I didn't know that flutered....my branch doesn't seem to though - I asked them yesterday.

Pj! wrote: »

If somebody transferred €1000 from their credit card account to their bank account each month and transferred it straight back via numerous payments (ie in 4 €250 amounts) would this result in the avoidance of fees?

:cool:If it's any help Pj, when I called and ripped the customer complaints section a new one, they told me I could beat the fees by doing 10cent lodgements, so long as there were at least 9. I said I wouldn't give them the steam off my proverbial - but it's worth looking into that if you intend to stay with them.....

Cabaal wrote: »

People have bills to pay, many people will get money from postoffice and pay bills and IF they have any left they will lodge it in the bank.

Given people are already living on feck all waiting a day isn't really a do-able solution when you have to buy food.



Suggestion makes no sense,
They are already likely to be able to physically visit the bank so why should they waste money calling a non-freephone number? Also they likely paid the ESB etc in the post office



Hmm not really.
28c fee has no affect on your credit card,
You still pay credit card goverment levy 30-40e, you still pay laser card levy of 7e to the gov.

28c a transaction can mount up very very quickly and adds alot of needless costs to a person already in money trouble. Its the same as a 4e reduction in the social welfare creates problems for people.

tbh your not actually thinking through how it will affect people who are on the breadline already, these people don't want to be on the dole but they have to live at the same time and extra bill can cause them problems.

:DCabaal, you are a voice of reason, and thank you for thinking of how this will affect others. You're a gent/lady (haven't checked, sorry!)

Obliq

muletide wrote: »

When does this take effect ?

21st Feb 2011 :mad::mad::mad:

Obliq

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Say you normally transfer 100 a month to a savings account, could you not get the 3 transactions by simply transfering 33.33 x3?

Am i missing somthing here or is it not costlier for the bank to have accounts with lots of transactions rather than none?

Missing something! It costs them nothing (or so they told me yesterday) as it's all online transactions with no man-power, just automated. In other words, when you are with 365 online banking, they are going to charge you for the facility (administration) that you're not using! Clear now?!

Pj!

Obliq wrote: »

:cool:If it's any help Pj, when I called and ripped the customer complaints section a new one, they told me I could beat the fees by doing 10cent lodgements, so long as there were at least 9. I said I wouldn't give them the steam off my proverbial - but it's worth looking into that if you intend to stay with them.....

Cheers Obliq.
Not even sure if I will be charged but still want to figure a way around it! (I think it's an Irish thing)

Obliq

Pj! wrote: »

Cheers Obliq.
Not even sure if I will be charged but still want to figure a way around it! (I think it's an Irish thing)

With me it's definitely that if free banking is good enough for the wealthy, then it's good enough for me - if BOI won't give it to me willingly, then ye know where you can lodge it!