"Customs" on RTE - shocking firearms handling

Pkiernan

Just watched a second episode of Customs where they find weapons in the post.

As in the first episode, the officers finger goes right to the trigger as he points the gun at the camera man.

WTF???? :eek::eek::eek:

To make matters worse, in this episode the officer said he was very familiar with guns in general.

Tackleberrywho

Pkiernan wrote: »

Just watched a second episode of Customs where they find weapons in the post.

As in the first episode, the officers finger goes right to the trigger as he points the gun at the camera man.

WTF???? :eek::eek::eek:

To make matters worse, in this episode the officer said he was very familiar with guns in general.

15 years in the FCA he said :rolleyes:

If he was in the FCA, first thing he should have done was carried out safety
As the Gustof was a very serious weapon and had been known to fire without touching the trigger

kildare.17hmr

what a gob****e is this on the player at all id like to see it

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

15 years in the FCA he said :rolleyes:

If he was in the FCA, first thing he should have done was carried out safety
As the Gustof was a very serious weapon and had been known to fire without touching the trigger

If I trained him the first thing he would do is treat it as if it's loaded and ready to fire, whereby, he would lift and point the firearm in a safe direction, check the safety catch was applied and apply it if it wasn't already, remove the magazine if attached, and then while pointing the firearm in a safe direction, he would open the bolt and check the breech and chamber for a live round. Then he would know it is unloaded and safe to handle :cool:

The Gustaf would/could fire without squeezing the trigger if the bolt was released by allowing it to slam forward onto a live round or if dropped while the bolt was in the open position and same thing happened.

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

If I trained him the first thing he would do is treat it as if it's loaded and ready to fire, whereby, he would lift and point the firearm in a safe direction, check the safety catch was applied and apply it if it wasn't already, remove the magazine if attached, and then while pointing the firearm in a safe direction, he would open the bolt and check the breech and chamber for a live round. Then he would know it is unloaded and safe to handle :cool:

The Gustaf would/could fire without squeezing the trigger if the bolt was released by allowing it to slam forward onto a live round or if dropped while the bolt was in the open position and same thing happened.

It's one of my pet peves

My Grandfather said the Devil loads a gun every 7 year

I'd question the editing of the program.

Remember the episode of ear to the ground when they "shot" a fox, yet 10 mins later he was as stiff as a board

I'd wonder did they have to google search first

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

.........My Grandfather said the Devil loads a gun every 7 year.........

:eek: never heard that before

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

:eek: never heard that before

He had a lot of sayings , he used to delight seeing me with "modern" guns and showing them how they worked et al

In regards to the program, they were hardly going to say, jaysus, what's this yoke???

The week before when they found the MG, not many would be able to say that it was a war time machine gun.
At the end of the day how often would they see them??
They always show them finding drugs too, yet they never say how was prosecuted too

Cass

I'm actually watching the programme now (had it taped from the other night).

He removes the gun from the package, flips it over, unfolds the stock, grabs the handgrip, his finger is NOT around the trigger, he retracts the cocking bolt, checks and clears the gun, inserts empty mag, holds it SIDE ON to the camera, then points it away from the camera as he releases the bolt.

Then the cameraman moves around to the front of the gun. He then removes the mag and shows where the gun has been altered to render it de-activated.

In my vew he was as safe as could be while showing the gun. Its the camera man going for the "money" shot of looking down the barrel thats the issue.

Sparks

Cameramen tend to be one of the worst groups of people I've ever had the misfortune to encounter on a firing range. I've developed the habit of trying to have one RO per cameraman whenever we know they're going to turn up, with orders to stay within arms reach of them because they will happily walk forward of a live firing line without watching where they're going or what anyone else is doing.

That one would move around to get a look down the barrel of a firearm without know if it was loaded doesn't shock me, sadly

harmoniums

can someone upload the video to youtube?
Its not on the RTE player

Cass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GIgHix8eN4

bunny shooter

ezridax wrote: »

I'm actually watching the programme now (had it taped from the other night).

He removes the gun from the package, flips it over, unfolds the stock, grabs the handgrip, his finger is NOT around the trigger, he retracts the cocking bolt, checks and clears the gun, inserts empty mag, holds it SIDE ON to the camera, then points it away from the camera as he releases the bolt.

Why do this? Not SOP from my training with Gustaf and there are claims he spent 15 years in FCA.......didn't do much weapons training so

ezridax wrote: »

Then the cameraman moves around to the front of the gun. He then removes the mag and shows where the gun has been altered to render it de-activated.

In my vew he was as safe as could be while showing the gun. Its the camera man going for the "money" shot of looking down the barrel thats the issue.

Assuming the person holding the firearm is the one who knows what they're doing, although on looking at the footage I agree his weapon handling is somewhat suspect, IMO the onus is ALWAYS on the person actually holding the firearm to move the firearm into a safe position and to then explain to the cameraman the error of his ways?

Pkiernan

ezridax wrote: »

I'm actually watching the programme now (had it taped from the other night).

He removes the gun from the package, flips it over, unfolds the stock, grabs the handgrip, his finger is NOT around the trigger, he retracts the cocking bolt, checks and clears the gun, inserts empty mag, holds it SIDE ON to the camera, then points it away from the camera as he releases the bolt.

Then the cameraman moves around to the front of the gun. He then removes the mag and shows where the gun has been altered to render it de-activated.

In my vew he was as safe as could be while showing the gun. Its the camera man going for the "money" shot of looking down the barrel thats the issue.

I would disagree (respectfully!) with you.

On the clip posted here, at 20 and 26 seconds in, his finger is on the trigger - definitley not on the side of the trigger guard.

There is no safe way to point a gun at a person.

Additionally, consider that he is taking a gun from a wrapped box, with no idea as to its condition. Very poor firearms handling.

There is similar behaviour from the black haired fellow with the glasses when he finds a deactivated MG42 in a parcel.

With any gun, and in particular an open bolt full auto, you do not play around with them in this manner.

Other than sensationalism there was no reason to point it at the cameraman, nor to operate the bolt mechanism, insert the magazine or pull the trigger.

Despite his years of experience, this behaviour would result in him being asked to leave any range I have attended.

Grizzly 45

OH MY GOD!!!:eek:. .He should be made drop and give us 60 pushups for such shoddy handling,and thats just for the producers of this !

Cass

Pkiernan wrote: »

Other than sensationalism there was no reason to point it at the cameraman,...........

From my view point the cameraman moved infront of the gun. Maybe there was a little from both parties, but the main point here is exactly what you said above .... Sensationalism.

Whay was not in the clip above, but was on the programme 5 minutes later was two armed detectives loading a few big bags of Hash into a van. The whole time the cameraman keep focused solely on the handguns the detectives were carrying. Again its a case of " Ohhhhh, they have guns ..... ".

Joe public that has no contact with guns will be shocked and amazed. We as firearm holders will know better.



Either way lad i think this issue is really making a mouuntain out of a molehill. Do you really think all this was done in one "take". Its for TV so the chances are the gun was taken out and cleared, put back into the packaging and then the customs officer had to remove and display it multpile times over to get the perfect "shot" (excuse the unintentional pun).

deeksofdoom

I think he handled that Gustaf fine, it wasn't text book but he knew his way around it, fair play to him.

I remember watching an episode of Airport where too armed policer officers of Metropolitan or Transport police at Heathrow. Were called because some fellah coming from Norway had a rifle bolt on him, the rifle was in the cargo hold of the plane. One of the officers was a woman and asked the other officer with her partner what's a rifle bolt. Now this woman was carrying an MP5 and a Glock... it was one of those FFS moments.

You cant bate the bit of Army training, fair play to yer man in customs for being able to handle the Gustaf.

meathstevie

In all fairness the chap appears to know what he's doing and once he was sure it was a deact he's handling a gun shaped lump of metal that's about as dangerous as a yellow plastic water gun.

booom

it was always drilled into me that the devil loads your gun once a year

maglite

@3sec..... Would he not notice the large angle grinder cut ?

@10 sec there is a cut where i'd assume he checks the breach..

bunny shooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

If I trained him the first thing he would do is treat it as if it's loaded and ready to fire, whereby, he would lift and point the firearm in a safe direction, check the safety catch was applied and apply it if it wasn't already, remove the magazine if attached, and then while pointing the firearm in a safe direction, he would open the bolt and check the breech and chamber for a live round. Then he would know it is unloaded and safe to handle :cool:

The Gustaf would/could fire without squeezing the trigger if the bolt was released by allowing it to slam forward onto a live round or if dropped while the bolt was in the open position and same thing happened.

Spot the deliberate mistake ! Can't believe none of the "experts" on here pulled me on this. Maybe they don't know as much as they think :eek::D

There is no actual concentional "safety" catch on a Gustaf apart from the slot the bolt can be pulled back and left into which is meant to act as the "safety" which nobody in their right mind would use as such :P

murph226

Sure we're all "experts" on sub machine guns these days :rolleyes::D

DublinWriter

The Golden Rule is only point the weapon at something if you're intending to shoot it.

Pkiernan

I was lucky enough to shoot both a Gustav and a WW2 Schmeisser MP40 at our range in the States.

The MP40 was a true engineering masterpiece, in particular its folding stock. My only complaint that even getting wholesale ammo it was expensive to shoot.

The Gustav was a piece of junk.

But I still wouldn't point either of them at anyone (loaded or not!) :P

Pkiernan

bunny shooter wrote: »

Spot the deliberate mistake ! Can't believe none of the "experts" on here pulled me on this. Maybe they don't know as much as they think :eek::D

Or it could be a sign that we're not reading your posts

bunny shooter

Pkiernan wrote: »

I was lucky enough to shoot both a Gustav and a WW2 Schmeisser MP40 at our range in the States.

The MP40 was a true engineering masterpiece, in particular its folding stock. My only complaint that even getting wholesale ammo it was expensive to shoot.

The Gustav was a piece of junk.

But I still wouldn't point either of them at anyone (loaded or not!) :P

Would love to fire an MP40 :cool:

deeksofdoom

bunny shooter wrote: »

There is no actual concentional "safety" catch on a Gustaf apart from the slot the bolt can be pulled back and left into which is meant to act as the "safety" which nobody in their right mind would use as such :P

There was actually, the bolt used to actually push in and out, but the safety never worked on it. If I remember correctly when you pushed the cocking handle in, it pushed a lug out the other side of the bolt. I don't know if it was because they all wore out or what, any of the ones I ever handled never worked.

Anyway it was a pure heap of **** and the world is a better place without it.

bunny shooter

I liked the Gustaf. Loved the sights on it ............ found then easy to use :cool: very little recoil too.

RockMan94

OMG what an idiot this would only happen in Ireland

johnner1

They should have got Willie O Dea to do that clip, he knows all about safe gun handling:D

Grizzly 45

Has it not dawned on us that this was staged??

Customs dude and film crew go down to the sorting line and hey Bisto !!!we will just pull "that" package amongst a few hundred thousand because it might contain a Gustav SMG!![Of course on every routine inspection of long or odd shaped packages customs expect to find "Swedish Ks" SMGs coming into Ireland.:rolleyes:]
So we will open it very carefully in the prescribed manner by cutting it open in the back and removing it,not knowing whats in there of course...and depending on your views handle it in ,or correctly.
More likely,customs picked it up on random Xray of packages,decided this was somthing worthwhile for the documentary,and the documentary crew "bigged it up" for De Telly.

Or just recreated the scene for the film moment..Just very coincidential that it "happens" to be a Gustav SMG too??Not exactly a very commonly available SMG on the DEact mart either.[.Most are selling in parts kits in the US.] But pretty recogniseable to a good few people out there as somthing the army did once carry.

Standard operating procedure for documentaries,after being involved in one a few years ago as well as seeing how film crews work,not to mind hearing of the demands of the film crew when "Slimetime Investigates"did a programme on shooting in Ireland up at Midlands range from shooters.
If nothing is happening that you or John Q Public expect.."Big it up"

As the directors would say "It's just Hollywood !":rolleyes:.