Becoming a Doctor..

niaroh1x96

Hi, im currently in 5th year and hoping to study medicine but have a few conserns and questions about it .. :

1. Best college?? I would probably go to UCC if I could as this is nearest to me but heard that Trinity are know better around the world and that RCSI is also very good.

2. Intern year. Heard many horror stories about this on both boards.ie and from people I know

3. It is worth it?? Medicine is something that I have always really wanted to do but I am beginning to wonder if Pharmacy, Radiography etc. would be just as good with similar money...

4. After Medicine/intern year. I think I would like to become an anaesthetist but heard this requires a large amount of education post medicine, not sure if I want to spend 10-15 years in education before making good money.

5. Probably least important but if I am going to put my self through years of extremely intensive study I want to come out of it with a high salary. What kind of money do doctors make these days (post taxes) eg. GP's, Surgeons, E.N.T. Consultants, Anaesthetists etc.


Thanks, looking forward to your replies,

niaroh1x96 :pac:

dissed doc

niaroh1x96 wrote: »

Hi, im currently in 5th year and hoping to study medicine but have a few conserns and questions about it .. :

1. Best college?? I would probably go to UCC if I could as this is nearest to me but heard that Trinity are know better around the world and that RCSI is also very good.

You will have to travel abroad ultimately if in a speciality, or can remain in Ireland for your entire career if you do GP. So, RCSI and TCD are best placed for moving abroad and specialising abroad. RCSI in particular as there is a huge amoutn of people who to the US after graduating. The minority are Irish and stay in Ireland.

2. Intern year. Heard many horror stories about this on both boards.ie and from people I know

You do a job to get up to speed with grunt work in a hospital. It adds nothing to any training and a purely service job. This is the "indentured servant" aspect. It's more regulated now and probably more so when you would graduate. It is not a big deal, unless you are 45 and have 4 kids. If you are 26 or so, it's easy really.

3. It is worth it?? Medicine is something that I have always really wanted to do but I am beginning to wonder if Pharmacy, Radiography etc. would be just as good with similar money...

Depends on what you want. The range of specialities is incredibly wide, and always widening. Only you can answer that question for yourself, but I would say yes, it is worth it.

4. After Medicine/intern year. I think I would like to become an anaesthetist but heard this requires a large amount of education post medicine, not sure if I want to spend 10-15 years in education before making good money.

Your options after graduating are a) general practice or b) medical speciality. All speciality training will take 8-10 years further before you will be qualified as an actual specialist. A medical degree is no different than say an MBA (althougha six year one) - it's AFTER that, that you actually develop your interest and speciality. You get paid pretty well throughout, usually around above average industrial wage.

5. Probably least important but if I am going to put my self through years of extremely intensive study I want to come out of it with a high salary. What kind of money do doctors make these days (post taxes) eg. GP's, Surgeons, E.N.T. Consultants, Anaesthetists etc.

If you are good at what you do in medicine, you will always get paid well. If you suck, you won't. It depends on where you live, and who your employer is and how good a negotiator you are more in other european countries than in Ireland. In Ireland, HSE sticks to standard rates, after tax income is around €5500-6000/month for a consultant.

Thanks, looking forward to your replies,

niaroh1x96 :pac:[/QUOTE]

Vorsprung

dissed doc wrote: »

You will have to travel abroad ultimately if in a speciality, or can remain in Ireland for your entire career if you do GP. So, RCSI and TCD are best placed for moving abroad and specialising abroad. RCSI in particular as there is a huge amoutn of people who to the US after graduating. The minority are Irish and stay in Ireland.

I honestly don't think it makes a difference what college you go to. I was a UCD grad - I got job offers from a few places in Oz/NZ before moving to Brisbane. There are plenty of grads from all colleges in many countries.

Vorsprung

niaroh1x96 wrote: »

Hi, im currently in 5th year and hoping to study medicine but have a few conserns and questions about it .. :

1. Best college?? I would probably go to UCC if I could as this is nearest to me but heard that Trinity are know better around the world and that RCSI is also very good.

See my reply above

2. Intern year. Heard many horror stories about this on both boards.ie and from people I know

Intern year is a steep learning curve, the likes of which you will unlikely experience again in your career. I and my friends loved it though, and that was the case for most people in my year. Sure there's some **** nights, but every job has **** times.

3. It is worth it?? Medicine is something that I have always really wanted to do but I am beginning to wonder if Pharmacy, Radiography etc. would be just as good with similar money...

If you're interested in doing medicine for the money, you've already picked the wrong career.

4. After Medicine/intern year. I think I would like to become an anaesthetist but heard this requires a large amount of education post medicine, not sure if I want to spend 10-15 years in education before making good money.

Any speciality in which you want to become a consultant demands basic and higher training, as well as original research and inevitably some time abroad. This is just a fact. GP has a shorter training period, but you never stop learning in any career path. If continuing education is not your thing, medicine is not the course for you.

5. Probably least important but if I am going to put my self through years of extremely intensive study I want to come out of it with a high salary. What kind of money do doctors make these days (post taxes) eg. GP's, Surgeons, E.N.T. Consultants, Anaesthetists etc.

As above - don't do medicine for the money. In one sense it's good that you're asking these questions now, but you would be doing yourself an injustice if you were to apply for the course given your current outlook on life.

Thanks, looking forward to your replies,

niaroh1x96 :pac:

.

niaroh1x96

No

thanks dissed doc, great points :-)

thanks also Vorsprung, didnt realise how many times I metioned money until reading over it , I know that I want to do something involving medicine, but maybe its not medicine :pac: ...I realise that money is very important to me but so is making sure I choose a career that I am going to enjoy and not regret, it is because of this that I am undecided whether to choose medicine (and have a wide range of options available to me after graduating), pharmacy (have a great interest in different types of medicines etc. and also have a choice of hospital, community, sales etc.) or radiography (love electronics and would love to specialise in say MRI or CT).



thanks again, niaroh1x96

dissed doc

Vorsprung wrote: »

I honestly don't think it makes a difference what college you go to. I was a UCD grad - I got job offers from a few places in Oz/NZ before moving to Brisbane. There are plenty of grads from all colleges in many countries.

That is true - I was thinking more of the US route which TBH is not my cup of tea, but, when there are 50-60 people in your year doing USMLE's it's easier to get study groups, etc., and also with a lot of alumni in particular centres in the US it can make things easier to get in touch. But, that is only if you want the US, and certain specialities, etc., . I totally agree with you as there is a steady job market around the world for medics, probably more so as the amount of people with speciality training is smaller than ever now.

dissed doc

niaroh1x96 wrote: »

thanks dissed doc, great points :-)

thanks also Vorsprung, didnt realise how many times I metioned money until reading over it , I know that I want to do something involving medicine, but maybe its not medicine :pac: ...I realise that money is very important to me but so is making sure I choose a career that I am going to enjoy and not regret, it is because of this that I am undecided whether to choose medicine (and have a wide range of options available to me after graduating), pharmacy (have a great interest in different types of medicines etc. and also have a choice of hospital, community, sales etc.) or radiography (love electronics and would love to specialise in say MRI or CT).

When people say things like "don't do medicine for the money" don't forget, you shouldn't do *anything* "for the money". Basically, a big step at the age of 18 or so is picking something you enjoy studying and learning - the type of people you enjoy interacting with. That goes for medicine, arts, music, etc.,.

Medicine is probably the most diverse of all degrees that I can think of as you could be an army psychiatrist doing PTSD work in Sudan, a flyign doctor emergency service in australia, a radiologist working in a hitec hospital unit, a GP in a rural clinic, pulic health policy and management etc., . The lifestyles are so varied that really, your speciality in a lot of ways is determined by what is your lfestyle and what do you enjoy doing.

Many specialities have part time work available, many don't. You won't be doign a 2 day week while being a transplant surgeon for example. This is what makes the question you ask difficult because there are 100 different people in a med school class and a 100 different lives they will lead.

I would say if it's on your mind, do it and don't be worried about not liking it. There is no question, you will find something in medicine that fits your mindset and life. You might not like some parts and really enjoy other parts but mostly, medicine is simple a framework for your actual career.

Vorsprung

dissed doc wrote: »

When people say things like "don't do medicine for the money" don't forget, you shouldn't do *anything* "for the money". Basically, a big step at the age of 18 or so is picking something you enjoy studying and learning - the type of people you enjoy interacting with. That goes for medicine, arts, music, etc.,.

I disagree. If you want to make money, go into a profession that rewards long hours with high financial rewards. Medicine, in its current form, actually makes you less well off as overtime may not be paid, resulting in your per hour take home pay to be worse.

Chunky Monkey

No

Be a dentist! Lots of money in that. In medicine, you will be learning until the day you retire, you're professionally obliged to keep up to date and medicine changes very quickly.

Chunky Monkey

No

Oh another important point...jobs are no longer guaranteed. There's already a fifth year at my school who didn't get into a deanery (in the UK) in the latest applications. He'll be lucky to find one left over at the end.

I've heard of a lot of people entering medicine because they think at least they'll have a job after. Unfortunately, due to incredibly stupid workforce planning, that's no longer the case in the UK and it sounds like Ireland is doing its best to follow in their footsteps.

niaroh1x96

No

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

Be a dentist! Lots of money in that. In medicine, you will be learning until the day you retire, you're professionally obliged to keep up to date and medicine changes very quickly.

Thanks Chunky Monkey,
Dont think dentistry is for me though , don't think I would enjoy it as much as medicine, what about pharmacy, radiography etc. ?
Thanks again, :pac:
niaroh1x96

Chuchoter

I know everyone always says you shouldn't go into medicine for the money, but can you expect a lifestyle where you don't have to be worried about money on a daily basis? Not massive things now (private schools, huge holidays etc) but just normal things?

Jaafa

niaroh1x96 wrote: »

Thanks Chunky Monkey,
Dont think dentistry is for me though , don't think I would enjoy it as much as medicine, what about pharmacy, radiography etc. ?
Thanks again, :pac:
niaroh1x96

Try this on for size.
http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=51&Mainsec=courses&Subsec=search_courses&CRAsort=&action=reset&display=&CRT_ID=&CSH_ID=18&PREV_CSH_I

Its very closly linked with medicine and seems to be very varied in what you do. Seems like a good second option to medicine.

EDIT:hmmm link just wont work. Well anyway its Sciences - Biomedical Health & Life Sciences in UCD. Course code: DN440

niaroh1x96

No

crayolastereo wrote: »

I know everyone always says you shouldn't go into medicine for the money, but can you expect a lifestyle where you don't have to be worried about money on a daily basis? Not massive things now (private schools, huge holidays etc) but just normal things?

Thanks for your reply but what exactly do you mean? if you become a doctor you can expect a lifestyle where you don't have to be worried about money on a daily basis or that you do(have to worry about money)? and what exactly do you mean by "

Not massive things now (private schools, huge holidays etc) but just normal things

:pac:

Try this on for size.
http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?opt...=18&PREV_CSH_I

Its very closly linked with medicine and seems to be very varied in what you do. Seems like a good second option to medicine.

sorry but link did not work, came up as where you search for courses, and what seems like a good second option to medicine??


Thanks for the replies :~)

Chuchoter

Sorry I kind of meant that as a further question (fifth year ) but I mean as in is money is adequate for a good standard of living.

niaroh1x96

No

crayolastereo wrote: »

Sorry I kind of meant that as a further question (fifth year ) but I mean as in is money is adequate for a good standard of living.

Oh right, sorry, I thought u were answering one of mine :P... ya good question, ill add it to my OP

EDIT: dunno how to edit OP, so ill do it here :P

Hi, im currently in 5th year and hoping to study medicine but have a few conserns and questions about it .. :

1. Best college?? I would probably go to UCC if I could as this is nearest to me but heard that Trinity are know better around the world and that RCSI is also very good.

2. Intern year. Heard many horror stories about this on both boards.ie and from people I know

3. It is worth it?? Medicine is something that I have always really wanted to do but I am beginning to wonder if Pharmacy, Radiography etc. would be just as good with similar money...

4. After Medicine/intern year. I think I would like to become an anaesthetist but heard this requires a large amount of education post medicine, not sure if I want to spend 10-15 years in education before making good money.

5. Probably least important but if I am going to put my self through years of extremely intensive study I want to come out of it with a high salary. What kind of money do doctors make these days (post taxes) eg. GP's, Surgeons, E.N.T. Consultants, Anaesthetists etc.

One more question (from crayolastereo)

I know everyone always says you shouldn't go into medicine for the money, but can you expect a lifestyle where you don't have to be worried about money on a daily basis? Not massive things now (private schools, huge holidays etc) but just normal things?

QueenOfLeon

No

Well obviously money shouldn't be what leads you into doing medicine. You have to work hard to get to where you earn a good amount so theres other careers where you start earning money quicker, and with less work (arguably).

Do a bit of research around for each university. You'll come out of all of them with the exact same degree so just figure out which one works best in terms of paying for accommodation, whether or not you want to do premed, where you'll end up on placement, etc.

Jaafa

niaroh1x96 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply but what exactly do you mean? if you become a doctor you can expect a lifestyle where you don't have to be worried about money on a daily basis or that you do(have to worry about money)? and what exactly do you mean by "

:pac:





sorry but link did not work, came up as where you search for courses, and what seems like a good second option to medicine??


Thanks for the replies :~)

Sorry edited my post.

niaroh1x96

No

QueenOfLeon wrote: »

Well obviously money shouldn't be what leads you into doing medicine.

No, money is not why I want to go to medicine, I think medicine is the best career suited to me, and I do realise that there are far more bad things about it then good. While saying that though money is (in my opinion) an imporatant factor to consider when choosing ANY career.

You have to work hard to get to where you earn a good amount so theres other careers where you start earning money quicker, and with less work

What are these careers?? :P;)

QueenOfLeon

No

niaroh1x96 wrote: »

No, money is not why I want to go to medicine, I think medicine is the best career suited to me, and I do realise that there are far more bad things about it then good. While saying that though money is (in my opinion) an imporatant factor to consider when choosing ANY career.



What are these careers?? :P;)

I did say arguably :P Well, with most courses being 4 years, if you were lucky enough to get a job straight after college you could be earning a fair bit by 22/23. A doctor is certainly not the only (or highest) high-paying job.

bythewoods

No

niaroh1x96 wrote: »

What are these careers?? :P;)

Dentistry, Actuary...

Or go be a pilot.

Chunky Monkey

No

niaroh1x96 wrote: »

Thanks Chunky Monkey,
Dont think dentistry is for me though , don't think I would enjoy it as much as medicine, what about pharmacy, radiography etc. ?
Thanks again, :pac:
niaroh1x96

I've heard that things are changing in pharmacy (for the worse) but I don't know specifics. I got on well with the radiographers where I used to work, they're cool people. Unfortunately, they're also very over-worked and under-appreciated.

I'll be honest with you, even as a student I'm finding medicine very hard. It's ultra competitive, you're going to come across a lot of nasty people who are going to be looking after sick people one day, it's hard work with a lot of early mornings, long days and all nighters (making sure you get essays in for the deadline- not because you were lazy but because you spent all your time at placement so you could get as much experience as possible, this is an apprenticeship after all), your self-esteem goes up and down, you'll be humiliated by consultants shouting at you and telling you you are going to fail (even if you haven't really done anything wrong), it's very emotional- grieving relatives are particularly hard to deal with.

It does have its up sides though...saw a guy recently with hemiplegia, severe headaches etc become completely better after an operation to drain his brain abscess, met another guy who was terrified before his surgery because his post-op pain control had always been poor before but this time, it worked and all his bowel tumour was removed and he was delighted. Saw another guy with a broken neck get the all clear, I've seen babies being born etc.

This sounds incredibly corny I know but it's worth it to see those things so I suppose you need to ask yourself can you take the bad with the good. And what I've described above is probably nothing compared to what I'll have to deal with once I've (touch wood) graduated.

Oh and you'll probably have to write about two reflective essays a year, which is a pain in the bum. And various other silly little things- there's a lot of red tape and politics in medicine.

Apologies for the corniness. After you have written about three of those reflective essays, it starts becoming part of your everyday lingo

Chunky Monkey

No

bythewoods wrote: »

Or go be a pilot.

I thought their wages are quite poor and unless you have perfect vision, you have to pay at least 100 grand for your training...

QueenOfLeon

No

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

I've heard that things are changing in pharmacy (for the worse) but I don't know specifics. I got on well with the radiographers where I used to work, they're cool people. Unfortunately, they're also very over-worked and under-appreciated.

I'll be honest with you, even as a student I'm finding medicine very hard. It's ultra competitive, you're going to come across a lot of nasty people who are going to be looking after sick people one day, it's hard work with a lot of early mornings, long days and all nighters (making sure you get essays in for the deadline- not because you were lazy but because you spent all your time at placement so you could get as much experience as possible, this is an apprenticeship after all), your self-esteem goes up and down, you'll be humiliated by consultants shouting at you and telling you you are going to fail (even if you haven't really done anything wrong), it's very emotional- grieving relatives are particularly hard to deal with.

It does have its up sides though...saw a guy recently with hemiplegia, severe headaches etc become completely better after an operation to drain his brain abscess, met another guy who was terrified before his surgery because his post-op pain control had always been poor before but this time, it worked and all his bowel tumour was removed and he was delighted. Saw another guy with a broken neck get the all clear, I've seen babies being born etc.

This sounds incredibly corny I know but it's worth it to see those things so I suppose you need to ask yourself can you take the bad with the good. And what I've described above is probably nothing compared to what I'll have to deal with once I've (touch wood) graduated.

Oh and you'll probably have to write about two reflective essays a year, which is a pain in the bum. And various other silly little things- there's a lot of red tape and politics in medicine.

Apologies for the corniness. After you have written about three of those reflective essays, it starts becoming part of your everyday lingo

May I ask what med school you're in?

Larianne

bythewoods wrote: »

Actuary...

Or go be a pilot.

How very boring careers.

Chunky Monkey

No

QueenOfLeon wrote: »

May I ask what med school you're in?

Sorry I shouldn't say considering I've just spoken about patient experiences. I'll be breaking confidentiality.

the_syco

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

I thought their wages are quite poor and unless you have perfect vision, you have to pay at least 100 grand for your training...

Here, maybe. 40-50k over in the states, I think. Dunno if the wages are any good, but I'd say a lot of pilot and doctors choose their profession for the love of their profession. Doctors, to save lives, and pilots, to fly things.

QueenOfLeon

No

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

Sorry I shouldn't say considering I've just spoken about patient experiences. I'll be breaking confidentiality.

Oh ok no problem, I was just wondering if it was in the UK or Ireland cos of your location

Chunky Monkey

No

the_syco wrote: »

Here, maybe. 40-50k over in the states, I think. Dunno if the wages are any good, but I'd say a lot of pilot and doctors choose their profession for the love of their profession. Doctors, to save lives, and pilots, to fly things.

Oh of course, if I hadn't got into medicine, I probably would eventually have gone down that route but I think they were talking about jobs that pay well.

QueenOfLeon wrote: »

Oh ok no problem, I was just wondering if it was in the UK or Ireland cos of your location

Ah I'm studying in the UK, I can say that much

the_syco

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

Oh of course, if I hadn't got into medicine, I probably would eventually have gone down that route but I think they were talking about jobs that pay well.

Ah. From what I've seen, well paying jobs are split into four categories:

a) you're in load of danger. ie: driving truck full of US military supplies in Iraq, or working on an oil rig
b) lots of stress. you make a mistake, people die. you do things right, people die.
c) you're a gangster. you kill people. you kill lots of people. linked to A and B, as someone will always be trying to kill you.
d) you're a genius. you can alone can do X job, and no-one else can even look at it sideways.

No-one pays well to do an easy job. If it was easy, someone would already be doing it, on minimum wage.

seriouslysweet

Money has got to be the worst reason to choose medicine. My parents are both doctors and beg me not to do it. I really want to though so will. I rarely see them and only two nights ago caught my mother crying over the fact she spent one night at home over Christmas and even then fell asleep on the couch. They're great parents but it means sacrificing a whole lot. My aunt is a teacher and makes a load, principal and does extra tuition work for LC students. She is rolling in it and finishes at 4 most days and only does a bit of extra work. She is proof that if you're the best in your chosen profession you make good money. That said, I'm still putting medicine down on my CAO. I really don't think which college you go to makes sense in Ireland, I could be wrong there but it appears to be the impression consultants have of you once on the wards, results and of course research and papers published.