ANSCHUTZ RIFLE

zeissman

HI
I was looking at the anschutz model 1417 22lr rifle on their website.
it has a barrel length of 35.5cm so I was wondering if it can be licenced
here in Ireland.
I looked at the garda guidelines and it said that rifles to be safe should have
a barrel length of 50cm.
Does anyone know the situation on this ?

Cass

This question has come up time and time again, and much debate has ensued. Here is what i can say, but others will be along and hopefully you can dig out a reasonable answer.

Under the 2006 criminal justice Act, section 65 with the insertion of section 12A covers the Shortening of a barrel, alterations to a firearm, and the stance on owning a short barreled firearm. (not pistol)

Without using the legal talk, you cannot SHORTEN the barrel of a rifle to below 50cm unless it is done by a registered firearms dealer/gunsmith for the purpose of repairing a fault in the barrel.

You cannot (unless you are an RFD) own/possess a rifle with a barrel of less than 50cm WITHOUT lawful authority. Now my understanding is that if the rifle comes into the country from the manufacturer with a barrel of 50cm or less, and your application for said firearm is successful then the license constitutes lawful authority and hence you are legally allowed to have and use it.

On the FCA1 you are asked for make, model, serial number, and caliber. Not the length of the barrel. So my answer to your question would be that Yes, once the rifle has not been altered to that length, is it's original length and your application for the license is successful that you can own, possess and use this firearm.


It must be stressed that this is only my interpretation of the Act and in no way constitutes a legal point of view and is open to correction or rebutal by someone with a clearer understanding of the law.

deerhunter1

ezridax wrote: »

This question has come up time and time again, and much debate has ensued. Here is what i can say, but others will be along and hopefully you can dig out a reasonable answer.

Under the 2006 criminal justice Act, section 65 with the insertion of section 12A covers the Shortening of a barrel, alterations to a firearm, and the stance on owning a short barreled firearm. (not pistol)

Without using the legal talk, you cannot SHORTEN the barrel of a rifle to below 50cm unless it is done by a registered firearms dealer/gunsmith for the purpose of repairing a fault in the barrel.

You cannot (unless you are an RFD) own/possess a rifle with a barrel of less than 50cm WITHOUT lawful authority. Now my understanding is that if the rifle comes into the country from the manufacturer with a barrel of 50cm or less, and your application for said firearm is successful then the license constitutes lawful authority and hence you are legally allowed to have and use it.

On the FCA1 you are asked for make, model, serial number, and caliber. Not the length of the barrel. So my answer to your question would be that Yes, once the rifle has not been altered to that length, is it's original length and your application for the license is successful that you can own, possess and use this firearm.


It must be stressed that this is only my interpretation of the Act and in no way constitutes a legal point of view and is open to correction or rebutal by someone with a clearer understanding of the law.

I would agree entirely with that

jmcp

this is a great 22, if you can get one. I live in the north and got one last year. 1417zg left handed with thumbhole stock. Shoots clover leaf groups at 50 yds, amazing trigger, hits rabbits with head shots @ 100yds.

zeissman

thats good info, thanks
I will have a chat will my local dealer and my firearms officer
shortly so.

meathstevie

By the way, you can not have any firearm in your possession without lawful authority.

Sparks

The reason it's not clear-cut is that if the licence constitutes legal authority, then the urban legend of a target shooter walking down high street with an openly carried firearm being legal because of the wording of his licence and the phrase "lawful authority" in the 1990 Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act comes up, and that's a hairy can of worms noone wants opened, on any side of any table that has sane adults sitting at it.

meathstevie

Let's not go there Sparks, when is an object an offensive weapon and when is it not ? The ultimate decission will be made in a court room and that's not a nice place if you're sitting in the small cubicle below the judge.

The phrase "to carry" is indeed in the wording of the old certs but I'm quite sure it indeed refers to carrying in a sporting context or to carry from your vehicle to your house and vice versa and to carry from your vehicle to a dealer/gunsmith's premises and vice versa and all the rest is wishful or nonsense thinking. I wouldn't strap the shotgun over my shoulder and go for a few pints just yet.

Bananaman

It's not a lot to do with the OPs topic but I think it deserves comment.

"carry" with respect to firearms, in modern parlance is not catered for in Irish law - hence it is not allowed.

As many have said before it is neither needed nor wanted either.
Anyone with aspirations to the contrary, can, as the previous poster stated, go waste their money in court arguing the toss.

We all have to carry firearms in some respect - to and from the shop, to and from your house, to and from the range, to and from the car, to and from the bog, to and from the field, etc. I __assume__ the term in the law indeed refers to the fact that a days hunting may well involve possession and carriage but no use of a firearm so those two have to be catered for.

The fact that the law sees all firearms as the same (except when it suits them) just means there are anachronistic terms associated with firearms such as handguns and target rifles where carriage is only to and from the shop/house/car/range (which is implied) but which regularly leads to this debate on here.

Clarity: You may _NOT__ carry a firearm on your person except when hunting and then only a firearm licensed for hunting.

B'Man

zeissman

I dont really want to run into problems trying to get this rifle.
I have a cz 22 which is ok but I would like to upgrade to something
better. I mainly shoot centrefire but like a 22 for cheap practice and a
bit or rabbit shooting.
What other anschutz models would be suitable ?
What about a sako quad heavy barrel. are they more accurate than a cz ?
I see that intershoot sell Lilja match barrels for the sako and wonder if that
would be a good set up.

Sparks

meathstevie wrote: »

Let's not go there Sparks, when is an object an offensive weapon and when is it not ?

The initial decision is made by the arresting Garda; the final decision, as you said, is made in court, but - and here's the ugly twist - it's up to the defendant (ie. you) to prove it's not an offensive weapon (whatever "it" is, because the nature of the object is left unspecified by the Act). In other words, guilty until proven innocent. As I said, a hairy can of worms.

The phrase "to carry" is indeed in the wording of the old certs but I'm quite sure it indeed refers to carrying in a sporting context or to carry from your vehicle to your house and vice versa and to carry from your vehicle to a dealer/gunsmith's premises and vice versa and all the rest is wishful or nonsense thinking. I wouldn't strap the shotgun over my shoulder and go for a few pints just yet.

Nor would I, and I've been arguing so here for years; though it doesn't refer to a sporting context btw, there's a specific exemption for that in section 2(4); it refers to carriage, as in "I'm going from X to Y and carrying the luggage with me". Whereas carry (in the US sense) refers to carrying on your person and has no notion of destination (or indeed of a journey at all) involved in the definition of the term.