Elvery's cancelling order after previously accepting it

yom 1

I was online in the soccer forum yesterday and saw a link to a big sale in Elvery's for soccer gear. I proceeded to place an order for various different jersey's and stuff for myself and my son. The order was confirmed and completed.

This morning I got an email from them to say sorry we are out of stock and cancelled your order. Surely they cant just cancel my order like that. The items were not marked as out of stock when I placed the order. So it would be my opinion that they would have to unhold the contract and deliver me the items when they are back in stock?

Am I right in thinking this?

cullen5998

no. you prat:D

mgsrocks

yom 1 wrote: »

I was online in the soccer forum yesterday and saw a link to a big sale in Elvery's for soccer gear. I proceeded to place an order for various different jersey's and stuff for myself and my son. The order was confirmed and completed.

This morning I got an email from them to say sorry we are out of stock and cancelled your order. Surely they cant just cancel my order like that. The items were not marked as out of stock when I placed the order. So it would be my opinion that they would have to unhold the contract and deliver me the items when they are back in stock?

Am I right in thinking this?

There's nothing wrong with elvery's doing this. Contract is made on payment, not at order confirmation. So unless money came out of your credit card they can cancel at any time.

It's not good form on elvery's part but theres probably increased demand around this time and the website isn't being updated as fast as orders are coming in.

super_furry

Isn't payment taken at the point of ordering though? If your card was charged, you might have an argument.

yom 1

super_furry wrote: »

Isn't payment taken at the point of ordering though? If your card was charged, you might have an argument.

That's what I would have thought myself. Once they verify the payment thats the charge gone against my card.

mgsrocks

yom 1 wrote: »

That's what I would have thought myself. Once they verify the payment thats the charge gone against my card.

Your credit is validated at the point of sale, not charged. Check your online banking and you should see nothing has come out.

If it has and you've been refunded then you'll have a case but otherwise nothing can be done.

This sort of stuff will happen a lot when buying online. Websites will list things that are mispriced / out of stock. Read through the t&c on the website and it will probably mention this situation and what will happen. You agree to the t&c's when you place an order.

mgsrocks

This is taken from the website. It says that no contract exists until the dispatch the goods, which didn't happen in this case.

No contract will subsist between you and Buy4Now Limited or any partner store of Buy4Now for a sale to you of any product or service unless and until Buy4Now Limited or the Buy4Now partner store accepts your order by e-mail confirming that it has dispatched your order. That acceptance will be deemed complete and will be deemed for all purposes to have been effectively communicated to you at the time Buy4Now sends the e-mail to you (whether or not you receive that e-mail).

yom 1

Elvery's Website wrote:

PRICE OF GOODS
The price listed on the Website (the 'Price') for Elverys Sports products (the "Products") will be as stipulated at the time when you place your order on the website. We are entitled to make adjustments to the price to take account of any increase in our supplier's prices, or the imposition of any new taxes or duties, or if due to an error or omission the Price for the Products on the Website is wrong.

Now the price cant be wrong as I just checked the website again. Prices still as they were and all the items I ordered still marked in stock. I'd imagine they got quite a few orders recently at these prices. So they would be aware that of the price being advertised. If it was wrong it would have been changed.

Elvery's Website wrote:

CONTRACT
No contract will subsist between you and Buy4Now Limited or any partner store of Buy4Now for a sale to you of any product or service unless and until Buy4Now Limited or the Buy4Now partner store accepts your order by e-mail confirming that it has dispatched your order. That acceptance will be deemed complete and will be deemed for all purposes to have been effectively communicated to you at the time Buy4Now sends the e-mail to you (whether or not you receive that e-mail).

So they are saying that only when the item is dispatched is it a contract.

The reason my order was cancelled is due to the items being out of stock. The site is still showing all the items I wanted in stock. I am seriously annoyed at Elvery's regarding this.

penexpers

It's very possible the website isn't reflecting the actual stock levels.

slimjimmc

penexpers wrote: »

It's very possible the website isn't reflecting the actual stock levels.

I'd even go as far to say it's highly unlikely that any, bar a few, on-line retailers' websites reflect true point-in-time stock levels. Most likely the day's sales transactions are processed as a batch job every night and it's only then that stock levels are properly reconciled. That's why the OP got an email the next day. In effect the website only shows the previous night's stock level.

dudara

They are perfectly OK to do this - until change of ownership of the goods take place.

GEM_13

Exact same thing happened to me.I think they made a mistake with the prices and took the offers down.
Just on a point a previous poster made,if i purchase something and the money is taken out of my card and then refunded a day later due to some bulls**t excuse,do i have a basis to push the purchase through?

91011

lets put this in the bricks & mortar world -

There's a shirt on display in brown thomas window at 50% off, you go in and they don't have it in your size.

Do you expect them to get one in for you at that price just because its on display in a different size???????

GEM_13

I would expect that if i order something and money is taken from my credit card for said item,i would expect the item i have purchased to be provided to me.
The Elvery's case aside,my other order that was cancelled was done so because they said they didn't deliver to Ireland-this despite the fact that i have an e-mail which was sent to me 2 days before i placed my order quoting a specific price for delivery to Ireland.

If the item was sold out then the company should have just said so instead of contradicting themselves saying they didn't deliver to Ireland after giving me a price to do so.

chappy

I use to work for Elverys and still have friends that do. Th prices on the website are great. When an order is processed online if the stock is not in the warehouse then they source it from one of the stores.

The problem is that if the system says something is available in a store and then it turns out it isn't due to theft/stock selling instore since online purchase/etc there is really nothing they can do.

There is no way for you to force the purchase as they physically do not have the stock to give you. This issue is nothing to do with a price error and I have been in a store this week purchasing some of these offers myself.

GEM_13

The order i wanted to try and push through was the other order i spoke of and not the Elvery's one-sorry,i should have specified that.

Only reason i a questioning this order was because i was charged then credited again because of a crap excuse.That kind of behaviour just annoys people.At least Elverys didn't charge me and gave me an honest reason i.e. not enough stock to complete my order.

Maldjd23

91011 wrote: »

lets put this in the bricks & mortar world -

There's a shirt on display in brown thomas window at 50% off, you go in and they don't have it in your size.

Do you expect them to get one in for you at that price just because its on display in a different size???????

No..I do not expect that but when i order an item online and read this part carefully.."they claim to have my size available"..I expect them to have the size available.It's not that hard to update a website when a size is out of stock. If a shirt is on display in a window, i have no idea if my size will be in stock. I expect i ordered the same item as the OP and while Elvery's may not have a legal obligation they certainly have a moral one. I most certainly wont shop in Elvery's again and its a shame because up until this point i have always found them decent to deal with.

delllat

Maldjd23 wrote: »

No..I do not expect that but when i order an item online and read this part carefully.."they claim to have my size available"..I expect them to have the size available.It's not that hard to update a website when a size is out of stock. If a shirt is on display in a window, i have no idea if my size will be in stock. I expect i ordered the same item as the OP and while Elvery's may not have a legal obligation they certainly have a moral one. I most certainly wont shop in Elvery's again and its a shame because up until this point i have always found them decent to deal with.

i run some websites and its not so simple
there is a live stock counter but its disabled
because if some idiot added a million of the same items to his cart "for entertainment" they would appear as unavailble to everyone who really wanted to purchase one (hence lost sales )
and i doubt any site is monitored 24/7

Maldjd23

delllat wrote: »

i run some websites and its not so simple
there is a live stock counter but its disabled
because if some idiot added a million of the same items to his cart "for entertainment" they would appear as unavailble to everyone who really wanted to purchase one (hence lost sales )
and i doubt any site is monitored 24/7

Ok..Ok..I will admit that...Was probably hasty in my rant...But...all that said...Its not the fault of the consumer...Surely Elvery's in good faith should provide the good?...It's actually happened to me a few times in the past with other companies so i am most certainly not focusing on Elvery's. To the layman it does seem like a ploy to lull you onto a certain site.

DOC09UNAM

delllat wrote: »

i run some websites and its not so simple
there is a live stock counter but its disabled
because if some idiot added a million of the same items to his cart "for entertainment" they would appear as unavailble to everyone who really wanted to purchase one (hence lost sales )
and i doubt any site is monitored 24/7

I've no doubts that Elverys just did it to get people on the site.

And amazon is pretty close to 24/7 monitoring

chappy

Maldjd23 wrote: »

Ok..Ok..I will admit that...Was probably hasty in my rant...But...all that said...Its not the fault of the consumer...Surely Elvery's in good faith should provide the good?...It's actually happened to me a few times in the past with other companies so i am most certainly not focusing on Elvery's. To the layman it does seem like a ploy to lull you onto a certain site.

I'm sure Elverys would love to provide the goods and take your money from you but if they physically don't have the item how can they?

h.e.j.

chappy wrote: »

I'm sure Elverys would love to provide the goods and take your money from you but if they physically don't have the item how can they?

I've just stumbled over this thread and the discussion is very interesting. I'd like to contradict to chappy's statement above (sorry for that) because my personal experience has proven the opposite.
I'm living outside Ireland in the continental EU and know Elverys from my visits to Dublin (I purchased some stuff in their shop in Croke Park and was completely satisfied at that point).
Some weeks ago me and some friends were looking for some christmas gifts and nice rugby jerseys for ourselves and we just couldn't say "no" to the campaign of discounted rugby jerseys (any jersey for 40 Euros) on the Elverys web site.
I ordered a number of shirts of different teams and brands, all size XL (nothing uncommon), stated my credit card details and was looking forward to the delivery.
With the confirmation mail (I don't want to go into legal terms here when a valid sales contract has become effective and when not), I received a link to track the status of the order.
About a week later I clicked on that link to check the status and learned that the whole order (some 8 jerseys) had been cancelled. Neither a notification by mail nor any other information why.
I've sent a mail to the customer service and they replied that there was a problem with the credit card payment, so they couldn't bill me.
The strange thing is that I made several purchases before and also after christmas (surprise ...) using this card, among other shops for instance also at the O'Neills web site. I never had any "credit card problems" there, neither now nor in the past.
From my point of view it's much unlikely that Elverys has run out of stock with all items as they still offer them on their web site after three weeks.
I sent a second mail asking how to proceed and they really told me I should "just order the items again". Jerseys that previously were advertised for 40 Euros and now are back to the normal price of more than 70 Euros. No, thank you.
Before I was just disappointed, but now I'm angry and pretty sure that I will never shop at Elverys again.
Fortunately I have never made a similar experience anywhere else and the jerseys have been ordered meanwhile at other shops in Ireland and the UK.

h.e.j.

As some of the posts in this thread mention that it's difficult to keep track of the stock/available items, I wonder why Elverys has introduced a new ERP system (Enterprise Resource Planning) some weeks ago:

http://www.pcmsgroup.com/corporate/story_detail.jsp?nid=117&year=2010

ztoical

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

And amazon is pretty close to 24/7 monitoring

Of course they do their whole business is web based while Elvery's isn't.

h.e.j.

Unbelievable ....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056127155&page=3

pleasant Co.

h.e.j. wrote: »

Unbelievable ....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056127155&page=3

Eh?

slimjimmc

h.e.j. wrote: »

As some of the posts in this thread mention that it's difficult to keep track of the stock/available items, I wonder why Elverys has introduced a new ERP system (Enterprise Resource Planning) some weeks ago:

http://www.pcmsgroup.com/corporate/story_detail.jsp?nid=117&year=2010

These things take time to go live (the article doesn't mention if this has gone live already) and when they do there are often glitches for many months afterwards. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the issues reported by customers are related to the migration to the new system.

SQ2

Back in the day I used to be involved in a football/rugby/soccer Jersey site. This used to happen all the time.

The Jersey is listed on the website.
The customer places an order.
If we didn't have it in stock we would order it in then send slightly delayed.
Before it was dispatched we would process the order and credit card details. The very same a taking something to a checkout in a shop.

If it wasn't going to be available in a reasonable time we inform the customer that unfortunately we're out of stock.
It would have been near impossible to keep a stock of every single jersey in every single size!

O'Neills in particular were dreadful for not having a sufficient stock and we were caught short regularly by people requiring some items, especially if the team was doing well in the championship.
(Jerseys being sold to the USA by the way were about 70% west of Ireland counties, which would give you an idea of where most of the emmigration was from)

Sounds a bit "toys out of the pram" that someone would never shop with us again because we hadn't got something in stock!! And as for the moral obligation part... They're a business trying to sell you something, they don't owe you anything!

I'd be annoyed though if they took my cash but didn't send the goods.

chappy

Just in relation to the new IT systems they did go live awhile back and have been a complete nightmare for everybody in the company as there have been lots of teething problems. This has lead to a full company stocktake needing to be organised for next month to try and get some control over the issues of stock showing on systems but not physically being available.

I can safely say that Elverys are not doing this to try and scam people. They put on great offers and the stock has sold out.That is the idea of them putting good reductions on so they are not left with old stock when new gear comes in.

h.e.j.

SQ2 wrote: »

Sounds a bit "toys out of the pram" that someone would never shop with us again because we hadn't got something in stock!! And as for the moral obligation part... They're a business trying to sell you something, they don't owe you anything!

I guess you refer to my post here.

I don't have a problem with the fact that some items might be sold out when you order them online, especially before christmas and when they offered for a reduced price (nontheless not a whole order of some 10 articles).

However, what bothers me here is:
a) I wasn't notified by mail that the whole order was cancelled. Sheer accident that I discovered that by having a look on the status about one week later. Btw, I had placed another order before ... same thing, i.e. cancellation after 3 weeks without notification.
b) After sending a mail to the customer service I wasn't told that the items ran out of stock. The order was cancelled due to "payment problems with my credit card". And as I wrote, I've made other purchases with that card before and after, also online, without any "problems". At that, credit card data is usually being validated during checkout, otherwise the whole online shopping would end up in a mess. So I'm somehow astonished about that argument.
c) The suggestion to "order all the items again" was not a good one in my case and leaves a bad impression. I initially ordered rugby jerseys for 40 Euros that are back to more than 70 Euros now.
d) Most of the stuff I ordered about one month ago is still available online, so it's obviously not a supply/stock problem.

In one word, what remains is a big question mark.

And the webshop of O'Neills was just an example how things can be handled in a better way. It's true that delivery is not the fastest here but in the end I got everything that I ordered so far, even if it took three or four weeks. And if there was a problem (e.g. shipment of three striped shirts outside Ireland) it was immediately communicated and clarified. I made other positive experiences with the gaastore, quick and reliable delivery. Just as an example ...

SQ2

h.e.j. wrote: »

I guess you refer to my post here.

Nope.

You were let down on the face of your story and I'd be annoyed if I were you too.