ESB & PowerMeters...do they exist in ESB's world?

dowtcha

ESB CS: David wrote: »

As promised, we now have a Plug-In Energy Monitor available.

Click here to have a look.

Thanks,

David.

Progress, what about the next logical step - GooglePowerMeter - look at your domestic energy usage over the net? Set up using www.alertme.com

If its OK to set this up in the UK, why not ROI??

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So what are the safety concerns then? I would have thought you'd be making it very clear to consumers, in documentation etc, that you find all of these currently available off the shelf product unsafe to use if that was the case, no?

Is this not going to be address then? You say you have safety concerns about the off the shelf products but are not going to tell your customers what they are?

(or would I have to go to ESB networks for that one too, seems to be the standard answer in here)

Priori

Cookie_Monster wrote:

You say you have safety concerns about the off the shelf products but are not going to tell your customers what they are?

ESB CS: Chris wrote:

There are basically two different types of energy monitors on sale:

A) One that monitors the complete electricity usage in a home. Most of these use a current transformer clamp to monitor electricity usage. We have some issues with this type of device.
- We have a safety concern about our customers installing these clamps themselves onto cables (both ESB and their own) inside the meter cabinet or at their consumer unit (fuse board). These devices should be installed by an electrical contractor.

(emphasis added)

That answer would seem fair enough for most people. You could of course keep asking if you want them to repeat themselves (again...).

If further detail was forthcoming (or even appropriate?) I don't see why they wouldn't provide it. Why would you need documentation outlining why they don't (ideally) want customers clamping devices onto ESB cables?? As a company they're just covering themselves should anything go wrong, however unlikely that should be.

ESB are fairly well known for being safety conscious, so their response seems reasonable to me. I appreciate companies that would err on the side of caution rather than take risks, especially where electricity is concerned.

dowtcha

I have to admit, I too would be curious exactly what the safety concerns are -if its OK for UK/US customers to fit a clip on CT around the OUTSIDE of an insulated cable then why not us. Of course the easy way out is to cry "safety" and leave it alone - if everybody applied the same principle to everyday living we wouldn't get out of bed, for as we all know the world is full of hidden dangers

Just to be clear nobody is asking Electric Ireland to say it is safe to fit one of these devices, however it would help if they did not say it was unsafe unless there is a specific safety concern, if so what is it, electrocution?
from RECI approved installations - I don't think so - using this logic we would never handle cables with live currents eg unplug a kettle

Perhaps this is getting a bit tedious, but I am curious nevertheless

Davy

dowtcha wrote: »

using this logic we would never handle cables with live currents eg unplug a kettle

Thats not really the same, as the flexi will have lower protection, where the tails from the meter will have a 80A fuse behind them.

I think Priori's post sums it up, they are always going to air on the side of safety if its something they are supplying

KM88

Davy wrote: »

... they are always going to air on the side of safety if its something they are supplying

Any idea why Scottish Power, EDF, nPower, Southern Electric, etc (all in UK) don't similarly "err on the side of caution" given that they do supply both electricity and these devices to their customers?

Just asking.

Davy

KM88 wrote: »

Any idea why Scottish Power, EDF, nPower, Southern Electric, etc (all in UK) don't similarly "err on the side of caution" given that they do supply both electricity and these devices to their customers?

Just asking.

Are you saying all the devices are fitted by the customer and at the meter location?

If its the plug in type, thats not what Im referring too.

dowtcha

No, its definitely not the plug type :
have a look at the very "unsafe" activities being undertaken in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQiqhADR8aA

What are we saying here? - can we deduce that Electric Ireland are accusing British Gas/Scottish and Southern and other electricity providers of condoning unsafe practices giving rise to as of now, unspecified "safety concerns"

or are we saying that the Irish electricity customer is not to be trusted to the same degree as his/her UK counterpart

or am I missing something

Priori

dowtcha wrote:

can we deduce that Electric Ireland are accusing British Gas/Scottish and Southern and other electricity providers of condoning unsafe practices giving rise to as of now, unspecified "safety concerns"

Deduce away dowtcha. For my part, I don't find it so mind-boggling a thought that one company might exercise a slightly more stringent safety ethic than another. That may simply be what you're missing.

Companies can differ as much as individual professionals. If you were to visit one doctor after another for example, and were to find that their levels of concern and caution weren't entirely in agreement with each other, would you deduce:

A - That the doctors in question were implicitly accusing each other of malpractice, or
B - That people do their jobs as they see fit and to the best of their knowledge

I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I just think all of this is being blown out of proportion. If it really bothers people that ESB, or Electric Ireland, aren't offering the clamp-on monitors on their store, they're very easily gotten elsewhere.

It would be an entirely different story if people couldn't get their hands on them due to Electric Ireland's safety concerns. But we all know that isn't the case.

KM88

Davy wrote: »

Are you saying all the devices are fitted by the customer and at the meter location?

Customer fitted - Yes, but can be either at the meter or the Consumer Unit.

Here's a link to what I mean.

This kind of unit shows how much energy in total you are using right now or over a day, week, month. That's useful for knowing:
- what are you consuming during daytime hours versus nighttime hours?
- should you be on a night saver tariff?
- what are all those standby appliances using while everybody is asleep?
- just what does that 30 minute shower your teenagers like cost?

These are all things a plugin can't tell you.

Cookie_Monster

Priori wrote: »

Deduce away dowtcha. For my part, I don't find it so mind-boggling a thought that one company might exercise a slightly more stringent safety ethic than another. That may simply be what you're missing.

The problem is IMO is that they are just using the safety excuse in order to sell their own in store brand of product and discourage people from buying the one that suits them.

It's about making money, not safety.

Priori

I don't know about that Cookie Monster, the one they do have on sale certainly isn't ESB branded - it's as generic as you can get!

ted1

to be honest you don't really want house wifes clamping on a ct,She'll fall off the chair or ladder.
As the meters are not of revenue spec. They'll be swamped by people ringing up complaining that they where over billed. As the units won't match that on the bill.

They are wise to wait till they have something better to offer.

We've been specialising in EMS systems for over ten years and can see the problems they'll encounter if they start supplying these type units.

I don't see them supporting the google power never either. They could easily develop their own or else use one of their existing online EMS like EBIS extra.

The Bouncer

why don't esb sign up to this?

http://www.google.com/powermeter/about/partnerships.html

ted1

why should a state company provide a free marketing tool to a third party, such as google. It would be of No benefit. He any body was to provide a system to work with powermeter it would be networks or the mrso as oppose to customer supply. Customer supply would want their own branded version this will give you a reason to be with them as oppose to one of the other providers.

.BrianJM

Priori wrote: »

I don't know about that Cookie Monster, the one they do have on sale certainly isn't ESB branded - it's as generic as you can get!

Also available from --> http://www.reuk.co.uk/buy-KILL-A-WATT.htm
I notice they're out of stock at present which is of no consequence while available here, but they have lots of other goodies, gadgets and info available.