Hardships of a Nation Push Horses Out to Die

Qualitymark

meathstevie wrote: »

In my opinion these horses should be put down. There's no willingness nor means to feed and shelter them and leaving them out there is unnecessarily prolonging their suffering awaiting the inevitable.

Yes. But people are desperate. The abattoirs can't cope with the demand, horsy friends tell me. (Friends who spend hundreds a week on feeding their two horses, by the way.)

Discodog

I wonder if people will donate to unknown individuals & organisations ?.
I would of thought that wealthy horse owners like the hunters would want to be seen donating as good PR.

It really is time for the horse community to do all that they can. There doesn't seem to be any discussion on the equestrian board here. Many of us dog owners have made sacrifices to help unwanted dogs & taken in as many as we can.

At the end of the day it may require some emergency provision to slaughter & bury on site or in mass areas - as you would with foot & mouth.

Qualitymark wrote: »

Yes. But people are desperate. The abattoirs can't cope with the demand, horsy friends tell me. (Friends who spend hundreds a week on feeding their two horses, by the way.)

I can't see how feeding two horses is costing "hundreds per week". If they have hundreds to spend then maybe they could consider a rescue horse.

A horse has always been seen as an animal that you buy & sell according to purpose. I have met met horse owners who declare great love for their horse & then sell it to get a different one - I can't see a dog lover doing this. Horses are seen as disposable. Perhaps we could have a compulsory insurance to pay for the horse's care should the owner be unable to look after it.

Horse forums have lots of threads with a common question - how cheaply can I keep a horse. We have to ensure, in the future, that people only get horses when they can afford to keep them.

Qualitymark

Discodog wrote: »

I can't see how feeding two horses is costing "hundreds per week". If they have hundreds to spend then maybe they could consider a rescue horse.

Would you so? Very generous of you to offer their money!

EGAR

It doesn't cost hundreds a week to feed two horses.

I've got 11 rescue horses here at present:

14 x 9.7 cool n cooked ration = 135.8

2 Round bales of haylage = 70.00

So the feeding for 11 horses comes to 205.8 a week and that is for 11 horses, not two.

Discodog

Qualitymark wrote: »

Would you so? Very generous of you to offer their money!

You get the money to me & I will guarantee that every cent goes to horse welfare

doctor evil

Livery for horses can be expensive, if a person has their own land or lives in rural area it can be cheaper. Cost of feed, bedding etc has not come down there is also the regualar costs such as the farrier (which VAT has increased) wormer, veterinary attention, insurance etc. I imagine folks are quietly doing their bit, the riding club I'm involved in organised a pub quiz for the ihwt back in November. You don't have to be rich to hunt, sure there is the initial set up costs (which are again cheaper in rural areas where also wage is lower) People nearer urban areas use livery yards so may not be in a position to take on a rescue animal.

As for animals selling an animal to get another one this can be down to lots of reasons. The horse/rider may be unsuitable for each other, horse could be misadvertised or doped at viewing or rider may go down another discipline that horse is unsuitable for/does not enjoy.

I resent the assumption that horsey folk are not seen doing anything.

Mass burial of horses sounds absurd and expensive, horse meat is the same as any other. I feel there is nothing wrong in encouraging consumption of it here.

The Equestrian forum on this board doesn't get a lot of traffic. I'm on a few UK forums where there are more Irish peeps.

EGAR

The "argument" re costs was based on this:

Friends who spend hundreds a week on feeding their two horses, by the way.

Of course there are additional costs, most of which are not weekly though (farrier, worming).

doctor evil

EGAR wrote: »

The "argument" re costs was based on this:



Of course there are additional costs, most of which are not weekly though (farrier, worming).

True, but some horses loose condition at the drop of a hat while others put on weight at the sight of grass. An older horse or one with specific needs could require a different type of hardfeed. It's all relative so there is no one answer for all. When budgetting like you don't just put in the price of feed but delivery or fuel spent when getting it yourself along with everything else. Some costs might not be weekly but you still budget for it in everyday expenditure.

Discodog

doctor evil wrote: »

I resent the assumption that horsey folk are not seen doing anything.

I think it perfectly reasonable to make this assumption until we see otherwise. The "horsey folk" have the experience & are far more likely to have resources such as land & feed than your average person.

EGAR

I am going to be controversial now (what's new ). IMHO the ones who are now dumping the horses are mostly the ones who never looked properly after them in the first place. They got horses when the prices were high to make to quick buck with breeding foals nillywilly or buy and try to sell on with profit. Anyone who ever went to a horse fair can pick them out right away by the condition of their horses or rather the lack thereof. Most of the ones I have spoken to looked at me blankly when I pointed out worming, dentistry etc. It was greed pure and simple and had nothing to do with the love for horses.

And of course the group of our populace who has always caused problem re animal welfare, even when the times were good but people are too PC nowadays to point that out. I, however, am not PC, I call a spade a spade and speak from 14 years of experience.

dvet

EGAR wrote: »

I am going to be controversial now (what's new ). IMHO the ones who are now dumping the horses are mostly the ones who never looked properly after them in the first place. They got horses when the prices were high to make to quick buck with breeding foals nillywilly or buy and try to sell on with profit.

I agree with that. Many of the problems seen in the last year or 2 are down to horses being dumped by people who only got into them because it was such a money spinner a few years back. When the horses became worthless/when they had less spare cash to throw around, they quickly lost their interest and showed their true colours. Particularly when it comes to thoroughbreds (i.e. people who 'dabbled' in racing syndicates in the good times), but it also happened with riding/sports horses and ponies. These type of owners were never horse lovers anyway; they liked the status and they liked making the quick bucks.

The other type of horse owner are the genuinely 'horsey' people out there who never made much money out of their horses (e.g. the typical livery stable owner or small time rider), but had them out of a genuine interest. These are the sort of people who are far more responsible and knowledgeable, and when times get tough they'd rather go without a few luxuries for themselves if it means looking after their horses. This sort of people don't dump/starve their animals just because times are tough.

So I wouldn't be tarring all horse owners with the same brush necessarily..

Discodog

Gosh what a strange way to end 2010 - agreeing with two sequential posters here - especially with EGAR .

I would never tar all horse owners with the same brush. The law of the land must always be applied equally but often it isn't. Let just say that if a few of the responsible owners could just find a little more space & money to take a rescue it could make a small but valuable difference.

Cherry Blossom

Discodog wrote: »

Gosh what a strange way to end 2010 - agreeing with two sequential posters here - especially with EGAR .

I would never tar all horse owners with the same brush. The law of the land must always be applied equally but often it isn't. Let just say that if a few of the responsible owners could just find a little more space & money to take a rescue it could make a small but valuable difference.

More than a few people I know already have done in fairness, I know of people paying to keep a rescue horse in livery and lets not forget that everyone is suffering in the current economic climate. Plenty of responsible owners have had to change the circumstances the horses they all ready own are kept in, I know of a few people who have had to take horses out of livery and make arangements like leasing land etc to keep them on instead or putting them out on grass long-term, they've done this in order keep the horses they have while making sacrifices in terms of facilities/lessons/competing etc. It would be very un-sensible to expect people in circumstances like this to take on more horses when they are struggling with what they have. Plenty have also taken on rescues as an alternative to buying, maintaining a horse is far from economical, feed is the least of things to be budgeting for. I certainly wouldn't be suggesting anyone take on an extra horse to maintain with the expense of farriery/ vetrinary care / insurance ect that they are paying for horses they currently own and are just about managing to do.

Personally I'd have as many as I have the time and money for. At the minute in my current job-seeking state I can't realistically affoard any more than I have now, and if my circumstances were to change in the morning I already have as many as I realistically would have time for if I was back in full-time employment. There's a lot more too it than throwing them out in a field and checking on them a few times a day (at least there should be!).

lrushe

dvet wrote: »

Particularly when it comes to thoroughbreds (i.e. people who 'dabbled' in racing syndicates in the good times), ..

It's funny you should say that because just last year I was going out hacking, we were picking up a friends' horse from a yard and I happened to say how I would love my own horse one day, the guy in the yard pointed to 2 thoroughbred horses in a field and said 'you can have them for nothing', I laughed thinking he was joking but he was serious. It took every bit of strength to walk away from them but rationally I knew that 1) I didn't have the facilities to keep a horse 2) I hadn't the money and 3) I hadn't the time, but still when your dream is put in front of you an a plate it really hard to walk away

Cherry Blossom

The abandoned Dunsink horses are now with the Irish Horse Welfare Trust - all 12 of them :rolleyes:

http://practicepr.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/successful-round-up-of-horses-from-dunsink/

They can be sponsored here:
http://www.ihwt.ie/site/?page_id=112

ppink

I read this the other day and I am kind of confused about it all now. So whose horses were the dspca feeding and doing all the appeals for food for? was this just for 12 horses or were there more removed.
does ihwt have more power than dspca or how come they managed to get in and sort all this out with fingal coco.....funding maybe?

Cherry Blossom

ppink wrote: »

I read this the other day and I am kind of confused about it all now. So whose horses were the dspca feeding and doing all the appeals for food for? was this just for 12 horses or were there more removed.
does ihwt have more power than dspca or how come they managed to get in and sort all this out with fingal coco.....funding maybe?

Fingal co co are the one's that had the power to intervene, owners were given the opportunity to make themselves known with no risk of procecution and once they heard this and the fact their horses are to be sorted out for them free of charge. The only ones taken were those unclaimed. I appreciate that this seems to have been the best way (for these horses) for this mess to be sorted out but these idiots have gotten off scott free and have had their horses fed all over the winter by money which has come from the general public concerned about their welfare. As a result this clean-up operation has done nothing in terms of future situations at other sites or for the horrific standands of equine welfare in this country. Those that had already died of course were not even given a mention.

<ETA>What is most infuriating is the fact that those who came forward to avail of free services have been labeled 'responsible horse owners' just to add to their arrogance.

Cherry Blossom

The numbers at the tip greatly reduced when news that some sort of clean up was being organised. I can only assume that many of them were moved and dumped elsewhere. Dead horses have been turning up all over the place. This was found dumped in the middle of a quiet road strangled to death. She was a 2 yr old at most.

Warning - graphic image!

Cherry Blossom

Just one last thing to add on this, I had not made any donations to any of these hay appeals etc. What I will be doing now at this stage is to make a donation to the IHWT which will go towards the rehabilitation and upkeep of the 'Dunsink 12' between now the time they are re-homed. It is likely that not one single person will be prosecuted as a result of the nationwide atrocity on the country's horses this year and it is my belief that at least some of this is down to the hay appeals, not directly, but they give official bodies an excuse to continue to do nothing and God knows they don't require much of an excuse, so the cycle continues and the same thing happens all over again from October 2011.

ppink

Thankyou AJ. Nothing is ever straightforward in this country is it?! I did not donate either to any hay appeals but that was more from being soured from my last dealings with horse rescue, however a donation to IHWT may be in order now.
It still puzzles me as to why Fingal did not do this with dspca and why all that money and effort was put into feeding horses with owners.......are we not set for the same thing next year? or worse? 'cause it would be wicked handy to be able to get some horses and know that in winter someone else would feed, worm and chip them:rolleyes:

Cherry Blossom

ppink wrote: »

It still puzzles me as to why Fingal did not do this with dspca

I get the impression that it was the brain-child of the IHWT possibly with a sponsor behind them to cover the costs of thier end of it. It isn't a new theory though, it's similar to how common land in the New Forest is managed in the UK.

ppink wrote: »

why all that money and effort was put into feeding horses with owners.......are we not set for the same thing next year? or worse? 'cause it would be wicked handy to be able to get some horses and know that in winter someone else would feed, worm and chip them

Yes we are, it just won't be at Dunsink (hopefully!) From now on only members of the newly formed horse club can keep horses there and males have to be gelded before they can be brought in.

seamus

ppink wrote: »

It still puzzles me as to why Fingal did not do this with dspca

Because they want the problem to go away with the least hassle possible.
If the horses were rounded up and taken, the owners would appear looking for the horses and would likely cause thousands of euros worth of damage to fences and gates in order to take their horses and any other animals which happen to be unsecured at the time.

Then you're thousands of euro down, and the animals have been moved elsewhere that they can't be looked after.

When you're dealing with people who have no respect for the law, it is often unfortunately better for all involved to avoid doing what is legally right and instead do what results in the best outcome for the animals' welfare.

Cherry Blossom

seamus wrote: »

Then you're thousands of euro down, and the animals have been moved elsewhere that they can't be looked after.

When you're dealing with people who have no respect for the law, it is often unfortunately better for all involved to avoid doing what is legally right and instead do what results in the best outcome for the animals' welfare.

They may have no respect for the law but how is that a reason to pander to them and make them above it

None of these horses are worth anything remotely close €100 never mind thousands! Is this the attitude the DSPCA are taking with the rest of Dublin's lifeless horses also? Literally feed the problem until it disapears?

From the DSPCA's website:

The Dublin SPCA has a dedicated and trained force of Animal Welfare Inspectors. The Inspectors' primary role is as follows:

• To investigate complaints of cruelty and neglect.
• To provide guidance and education to animal owners where necessary.
• To initiate prosecutions for offences.
• To attend to sick and injured stray animals or those which have been abandoned.

What is the point of throwing money into a bottomless pit while crying lack of funds :rolleyes:. If they are abandoned take them in and rehabilitate them for rehoming. If an owner appears, prosecute them. These 'raids' on facilities are a figment of their imaginaton, they need to get on with the job they are supposed to do.

Discodog

According to the IHWT Passports and micro-chips for all the equines were sponsored by Horse Sport Ireland.

If all the horses are chipped & registered then they can never be neglected without the owners risking prosecution. They are now covered by the Control of Horses Act which gives powers to the Council & the Guards.

seamus

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Is this the attitude the DSPCA are taking with the rest of Dublin's lifeless horses also? Literally feed the problem until it disapears?

Sorry, I didn't mean the DSPCA want the problem to go away, the council and gardai do. Without the support of them, the DSPCA's hands are tied and all they can do is try to ensure the horses survive the winter.

These 'raids' on facilities are a figment of their imaginaton, they need to get on with the job they are supposed to do.

Unfortunately they're not. The DSPCA has been broken into at least 3 times in the last year by former owners stealing their animals (not just horses to be fair).

Security systems on a campus that large don't come cheap and their budget has been set back by break-ins, but I understand it's all in the pipeline.

ppink

An interesting article on the dunsink horses:

video at the end of the page of the roundup also

http://www.tilleyfarm.co.uk/dunsink.html