Staying behind after shop is closed?

LegacyUser

I have a question, I work in retail. It's a regular thing that I am kept 5-10 minutes behind after our store is closed as the manager closes up. I am not involved in the counting of money or closing of tills and as our shop closes. Once all customers are clear in my section all we do is wait for the Customers at the final opened till on a different floor to be served and then we are told we can go home. However I am always missing the bus home because of this and having to wait another half hour before the next one comes. Do I have to stay behind like this? Our store has a Security Guard and the Manager just shuts up the store after we leave, I don't think there is a real need for me to be there past the time the time I'm rostered to work.

tenchi-fan

WonderingOne wrote: »

I have a question, I work in retail. It's a regular thing that I am kept 5-10 minutes behind after our store is closed as the manager closes up. I am not involved in the counting of money or closing of tills and as our shop closes. Once all customers are clear in my section all we do is wait for the Customers at the final opened till on a different floor to be served and then we are told we can go home. However I am always missing the bus home because of this and having to wait another half hour before the next one comes. Do I have to stay behind like this? Our store has a Security Guard and the Manager just shuts up the store after we leave, I don't think there is a real need for me to be there past the time the time I'm rostered to work.

the internal controls might require a second employee to observe the till being counted. You should get paid for the extra 5-10 minutes.

Corruptedmorals

Could well be down to insurance reasons that the manager cannot shut down the tills in the store alone. Are you paid for that time, do you clock out? You are actually lucky that it's only 10 mimutes tbh. I worked 3 years in retail and rarely got out on time. Generally half an hour after the shop had closed we got out but we could be kept for an hour and a half over if the shop was all over the place and often was for months on end in busy periods. My busses are every 40 minutes coming out of work and I missed countless busses, often waiting more on weekends. Not the end of the world, I used to walk with people from work and kill time that way and go to a spar, more time killed. A lot of times getting out of work late half the shops in grafton street would still be working even though they closed before us. if you're getting paid for it I'd forget about it really. If you have a good relationship with the manager on close maybe ask if you can leave to get a bus if it's lashing rain or something but wouldn't make a habit out of it.

stevejr

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Could well be down to insurance reasons that the manager cannot shut down the tills in the store alone. Are you paid for that time, do you clock out? You are actually lucky that it's only 10 mimutes tbh. I worked 3 years in retail and rarely got out on time. Generally half an hour after the shop had closed we got out but we could be kept for an hour and a half over if the shop was all over the place and often was for months on end in busy periods. My busses are every 40 minutes coming out of work and I missed countless busses, often waiting more on weekends. Not the end of the world, I used to walk with people from work and kill time that way and go to a spar, more time killed. A lot of times getting out of work late half the shops in grafton street would still be working even though they closed before us. if you're getting paid for it I'd forget about it really. If you have a good relationship with the manager on close maybe ask if you can leave to get a bus if it's lashing rain or something but wouldn't make a habit out of it.

Good reply.

There is a concept peculiar to Retail called Grace Time, not sure about smaller retailers if that's the OP's case but in general in larger retailers, a grace time of 5 or 10mins is the norm in employees' contracts to enable an orderly clearance of the store.

Same in the hostlillery industry also I've heard. But as per the above post your grace period is short on average, so be relieved OP because in large multinational retailers it can be much longer and sometimes unpaid if the shop/chain is ununionised.

PS-I do not agree that this is fair but fairness is rarely a business concern where the Bottom Line is concerned.

Corruptedmorals

stevejr wrote: »

a grace time of 5 or 10mins is the norm in employees' contracts

Yeah all of my rostered hours were -7/8.30 so half an hour- then we could be kept to an hour beyond that. At christmas it was an hour- so up to 2 hours extra. Always paid, knackering of course but added up nicely, good old unionised dunnes.

OP since you're just standing around and not actually working I would bet money on it that the reason is the manager cannot for example transport cashbags to the cash office safe by himself in case he fleeced it. Ask a security guard, they'd know.

ssmith6287

come in half hour earlier, leave half hour later, keep a smile on your face. Your manager will recognise this, when a position opens you will be recomended.. worked for me and worked for bill cullen. 10 mins is nothing in fairness.

Pineapple stu

In this day and age just be thankful that you have a job. Giving out about staying over for 5/10 minutes is a bit petty to be honest.

boredatwork82

Pineapple stu wrote: »

In this day and age just be thankful that you have a job. Giving out about staying over for 5/10 minutes is a bit petty to be honest.

I hate people like you. Just because jobs are scarce, doesn't mean employees are allowed to be treated badly.

If the rota says you finish at 6, then you finish at 6. I worked in a similar environment and to accomadate that they rota'd everyone down at a time, when they would definitelt be finished.
If you finish at 10 mins later every day, then your finish time should be 6.10 and not 6.

wmpdd3

boredatwork82 wrote: »

I hate people like you. Just because jobs are scarce, doesn't mean employees are allowed to be treated badly.

If the rota says you finish at 6, then you finish at 6. I worked in a similar environment and to accomadate that they rota'd everyone down at a time, when they would definitelt be finished.
If you finish at 10 mins later every day, then your finish time should be 6.10 and not 6.

Respectfully, I don't think I'd ever hire you, given your attitude and to a lesser extent your user name.


Part and parcel of the service industry, I have no problem with it....Ido have a problem with customers comming in when a store is just about to close for a 20 min browse. If there were sale, we would open longer, but no just browsing.

Pineapple stu

boredatwork82 wrote: »

I hate people like you. Just because jobs are scarce, doesn't mean employees are allowed to be treated badly.

If the rota says you finish at 6, then you finish at 6. I worked in a similar environment and to accomadate that they rota'd everyone down at a time, when they would definitelt be finished.
If you finish at 10 mins later every day, then your finish time should be 6.10 and not 6.

its the attitude like yours that has this country in the mess its in. Nobody was been badly treated in the OP. What about when people have smoke breaks, extended toilet breaks, come back from lunch a few minutes late etc,? If your view was applied then workers would be docked pay for these. A bit of give and take here and there harms no one.
Funny how you dont mention the start time in your argument

Corruptedmorals

boredatwork82 wrote: »

I hate people like you. Just because jobs are scarce, doesn't mean employees are allowed to be treated badly.

If the rota says you finish at 6, then you finish at 6. I worked in a similar environment and to accomadate that they rota'd everyone down at a time, when they would definitelt be finished.
If you finish at 10 mins later every day, then your finish time should be 6.10 and not 6.

10 minutes, big deal. That's what retail is like. I'd imagine the OP would get to leave bang on time if his shift finished earlier, but he's lucky to only be 5-10 minutes over on closing shifts.

Kosseegan

People complaining about relatively small matters are a symptom of poor motivation and most likely bad management. People who are happy at work do not obsess about every little concession and detail.

junipergreen

boredatwork82 wrote: »

I hate people like you. Just because jobs are scarce, doesn't mean employees are allowed to be treated badly.

If the rota says you finish at 6, then you finish at 6. I worked in a similar environment and to accomadate that they rota'd everyone down at a time, when they would definitelt be finished.
If you finish at 10 mins later every day, then your finish time should be 6.10 and not 6.

If you worked just an extra 10 minutes a day for 5 days a week, 45 weeks a year, that would add up to a week of free work. That's a tidy saving for the employer, particularly if you have all your employees doing it.

Corruptedmorals

Is it free though? Most companies have clock-in machines, so employees are paid. They would not be paid if they are working over set contract hours, but often their contracts protect them from that. (Different story for managers who work loads of hours unpaid). Also, the OP is not even working, they're just standing around. So the company is paying security to stick around and let employees out later etc..for no benefit except the security of tills/floats etc. Not that being unpaid for extra few minutes doesn't happen, but it is definitely not widespread.

NinjaTruncs

This is standard in Retail, especially shops like Spar and Centra which opperate with limited staff. Opening is the same, if you were to be in for opening I would expect you are required in for 10 to.

But imo 5-10 minutes shouldn't be an issue as most employees waste this much time each day. I know stores that require staff to be in an hour early to open up which is unpaid now that is taking the piss.

Shelflife

junipergreen wrote: »

If you worked just an extra 10 minutes a day for 5 days a week, 45 weeks a year, that would add up to a week of free work. That's a tidy saving for the employer, particularly if you have all your employees doing it.

This is ver true junipergreen, by the same token, all the mins late in to work, late back from lunch, late back from break , extra toilet breaks leaving 1 min early ----they all add up as well, if you wanted to go down that route it could get very messy.

as was said earlier its called give and take, it makes life a lot easier.

junipergreen

Shelflife wrote: »

This is ver true junipergreen, by the same token, all the mins late in to work, late back from lunch, late back from break , extra toilet breaks leaving 1 min early ----they all add up as well, if you wanted to go down that route it could get very messy.

as was said earlier its called give and take, it makes life a lot easier.

I agree with you as regards give and take, and that's always how I operate when I'm at work - but if it's every single day as a matter of course without getting paid then it's just take.

borderlinemeath

I echo the sentiments of other posters who think it's a petty matter.

I worked in retail for 18 years, I started as a part time stockroom person on about £3IR and worked my way up to a store manager position on a very good wage.

I didn't sweat the small stuff, showed initiative and when I did work for an employer many years ago who did take the piss regarding hours expected to work I didn't complain and used the time spent with them as a learning curve and never bad mouthed them while there or afterwards.

OP, be grateful you have a job in the current environment. If you take this attitude with all employers you'll not get very far in whatever career you choose.

murphym7

5 - 10 minutes working unpaid over your normal hours. Come on, toughen up a bit. There are many many people, me included, that work hours and hours unpaid each week.

This is life, get over it. Whether we are in a boom or in recession this should not matter. If you are known as a clock watcher you will never get anywhere in working life.

If you play the game, not grumbling about the 5/10 minutes, doing a small bit extra, showing some initiative, you get noticed. For the right reasons, not the wrong petty reasons. If you do these positive things life at work can get a lot easier. You don't get grief for ringing in sick, asking for time off is a breeze. You may even get the nice assignments or a chance of promotion. Clock watchers do not get the promotions.

Augmerson

What is probably annoying the OP is he/she is just standing around doing nothing. When I worked in retail before I did have to open and close a shop, that required coming in early and going home late, we had a small enough crew and everybody was doing a job - either cleaning, cashing up, putting stock back out, getting ready for the next day. Ask if you can help out in some way, that might speed up the process of getting out on time!

niamhbennettxx

i am just wondering i work for smyths toys and it is always a guarantee that we stay at least an hour after because the place is in such a mess were understaffed so it takes a long time to do all thats needed but we are never asked to stay its just assumed we are rosttered unrealistic finishing times that we never finish at although we do get paid for it i was wondering if there was an actual legal thing that says how long you legally are oblidged to stay after your rostered hours? if someone knows could they please let me know as its gone on long enough and i know it sounds stupid because we get paid but when ur staying back 3 and a half hours after the shop closes its judt unfair smyths never offered us to be part of a union and as far as ive heard they are very hostile to staff joining?
are we entitled to join a union??

gerrycollins

niamhbennettxx wrote: »

i am just wondering i work for smyths toys and it is always a guarantee that we stay at least an hour after because the place is in such a mess were understaffed so it takes a long time to do all thats needed but we are never asked to stay its just assumed we are rosttered unrealistic finishing times that we never finish at although we do get paid for it i was wondering if there was an actual legal thing that says how long you legally are oblidged to stay after your rostered hours? if someone knows could they please let me know as its gone on long enough and i know it sounds stupid because we get paid but when ur staying back 3 and a half hours after the shop closes its judt unfair smyths never offered us to be part of a union and as far as ive heard they are very hostile to staff joining?
are we entitled to join a union??

you are entitled to join a union but smyths can chose to not reconise the union and carry on. The fact that you are getting paid for it and its the "norm" then there is no exploitation.

The only concern I would have is what affect the extra hours have on your breaks and rest periods. That would take it down a route that the union can argue and smyths could well be breaking the working time act.

doolox

...so there is probably a lot of stuff lying around that needs tidying up.
Do you get time and a half for the OT worked or just standard time?

If they are paying each staff member up to 3 hrs extra each day at time and a half they are paying a fortune and their costs must be very high.

Any place I worked had severe limits on overtime and I never had a problem leaving on time although the first place, back in the 80's had a lot of OT anyone who wanted it. Also high taxes if you were single so only worth doing if it was waiting for some shipment for a few hours and then fit a part. Not worth doing if hard work was involved..........

niamhbennettxx

If they dont reconise it does that mean it doesnt apply then?? I've heard from a union rep. from another company that its illegal to keep u after rostered hours as u are only insured until ur rostered time so for example if there was an accident at 9.00pm (rostered until 8.00pm) that we wudnt be covered? she also locks the door which is illegal also?? No we do not get overtime hours only if it goes past 10.pm or 11.00pm i think only get time and 1 third on sundays or bank holidays..and yes it does affect the breaks as they give u a 15min break for a 4 hour shift when ur technically doing a 6 and a half hour shift..ive also heard if they are to keep you back they have to give u 24hr notice is there any truth in that??
As we are never asked it is always just assumed which is even more annoyin because after ur rostered hours thats your free time would i be right??

gerrycollins

niamhbennettxx wrote: »

If they dont reconise it does that mean it doesnt apply then?? I've heard from a union rep. from another company that its illegal to keep u after rostered hours as u are only insured until ur rostered time so for example if there was an accident at 9.00pm (rostered until 8.00pm) that we wudnt be covered? she also locks the door which is illegal also?? No we do not get overtime hours only if it goes past 10.pm or 11.00pm i think only get time and 1 third on sundays or bank holidays..and yes it does affect the breaks as they give u a 15min break for a 4 hour shift when ur technically doing a 6 and a half hour shift..ive also heard if they are to keep you back they have to give u 24hr notice is there any truth in that??
As we are never asked it is always just assumed which is even more annoyin because after ur rostered hours thats your free time would i be right??

A union is only there to protect the staff from abusive employers and to get as many benefits as they can for the staff they represent over and above the legal obligations of an employer imo

overtime only exists if you work in excess of 39 hours per week regardless of the individual days work.

The insurance thing is nonsense really, every shop has public liability insurance and there is no time restrictions on it. by the same token customers in a shop after closing time(say finishing their purchases) are not insured because its after the publicised opening times.

The doors could also be locked for your safety to prevent robbers/drunks coming in however you still have the fire escapes.

Overtime rates are again a union agreement outside the normal legal requirments but your handbook might have something on it about unsocialable hours usually after 11pm or 12am depending.

the notice period for extra time would be defined in your handbook.Place I worked was 15mins notice however the extended period could be no more than 1 hour. there is no "legal" paramaters for such notice eg if you were asked to cover an extra hour for another member staff went home sick then 24 hours notice cannot be given.

To be honest it seems that you are been paid properly but the breaks would be my only issue that you could use however all it takes is to give you an extra 15mins of a break and they are covered and you now have an unpaid break period.

Your best bet would be to contact NERA who would visit and check records etc. They can enforce any issues where an employer is breaking the law.

Corruptedmorals

How it worked in Dunnes was it is written into the handbook that you could be asked to stay up to one hour after the rostered finishing time, which was nearly always the case. Though we were rostered to half an hour after closing time anyway. This applied to all part-timers and all flexi staff (provided they did not go over their hours or eat into the 11 hour rest period between shifts). Everyone was paid normal rate until they clocked out. I assume this is what Smyths is doing? It IS fairly common in large messy understaffed stores. It might be buried in your handbook somewhere.

badjoan

Hi niamhbennettxx

I also work in a smyths toy store and I know exactly how you feel. We had a visit due a few weeks ago and I ended up working a 15 hour shift only to have to be back in the store again the following morning. I wasnt happy and to make things worse in my store we never get paid for working more than 39 hours which is annoying because you end up working for free which cant be legal.

There must be away of reporting this company?

Thanks