I told children that there was no such thing as Santa.

pickarooney

Improbable wrote: »

I would imagine the reason you wouldn't tell them that it's terrible is to spare their feelings. It's not so much to do with telling the children that they're wonderful and brilliant but the double standard of shielding them emotionally from one thing and not another.

Not really. I don't think any artistic effort is truly 'terrible' and not having any talent myself it would be stupid to tell someone else they were no good especially if they'd made a concerted effort. Constructive criticism is good for them.

Would you consider not telling a child there is a Santa the same thing as telling them there is no Santa?

irjudge

Eh Lads, This is a ridiculous discussion for one simple reason.

Santa does exist.

scary

Jimmy a question and its serious, have you ever hugged your children? expressed any sort of emotional warmth to them? and what was your father like to you, my opinion and thats all it is, is that you grew up with a lack of love and positive emotion.

Kepti

efb wrote: »

He said he told his kids the truth if they asked him, being so wonderfully intelligent and articulate I'm sure sex has come up

I understand the point you were trying to make, it just ended up sounding a little extreme. One can educate their children about sex without the subtopics of sadomachoism or fisting coming up.

Maldjd23 wrote: »

Kepti wrote: »

If you're praying for the death of others, chances are you don't have as much figured out as you think.

look up the definition of a joke my friend!!!

Look up how to quote, buddy! Nothing in your post indicated that you were joking, but you're drunk so you get a pass.

NotInventedHere

I can understand the OPs point, Santa is a shared lie that is that perhaps has lost it's original meaning. But because most people like the idea, I go along with it myself. I do tell the children that I have to pay Santa for the presents though which does temper their demands somewhat.

OP, that was not a decision for you to make. It was your sister's. You are not their parent, she is. You deserve to be ostracised, and your children taken from you. I see no difference between your "parenting" and those hicks in the US who go protest at US servicemen funerals. The less children raised to your unattainable standards of "perfection" the better.

If I knew anyone who'd do that to someone else's kids, I'd slap them in the face.

Edt: I jut read the first post again. Garlic, why did you start this thread. Was it to ask a question? Or simply to lay a marker in AH "HEY EVREHWUN, AI AM RITE AN YU ARE RONG WIT YER STUPID KID GAMES AI AM NOT A LYAR AND YU ALL R. AI AM SUPERIOOR TO ALL OF U!"

---

>Or are you simply baiting us?<

---

(Gee I wonder which it is)

Kidchameleon

Hey Jimmy, are you that guy from the Meteor ad?

KylieWyley

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I am completely serious. I do not think it is selfish to tell children the truth.
I think it is more damaging to fill a childs mind with nonsense.

You really are a killjoy, aren't you...?

SCROOGE! :mad:

Improbable

pickarooney wrote: »

Not really. I don't think any artistic effort is truly 'terrible' and not having any talent myself it would be stupid to tell someone else they were no good especially if they'd made a concerted effort. Constructive criticism is good for them.

Would you consider not telling a child there is a Santa the same thing as telling them there is no Santa?

I would consider it terrible if it's supposed to be a fish and looks nothing like one. Constructive criticism is of course good but that's not the point. The point is that you wouldn't tell them flat out that its just bad because you wouldn't want to hurt their feelings (presumably). So you're protecting them in one way but then "harming" them in another.

And there is a difference between the two situations because not telling a child that santa exists doesn't take away an established emotional joy from them, whereas telling them that santa doesn't exist does do that.

CDfm

I am not disputing what you did but your motives seem more to do with you than other people and your need to have an ordered factual existence.

As for santa being harmfull what ages are you talking about - I dont know when I stopped believing 8 or 9 and it is part of the games children play with their parents to pretend belief.

Children have great imaginations and play is as important to a child and a childs development as education and school is. Your posts remind me of the Simpsons episode where Santa's little helper needs an operation and Homer spills the beans " There is no doggie heaven".

It may be that you like the controversy and drama that these things bring to your life while taking the moral high ground. It makes your life more exciting and puts you at the center of attention. Thats why I think you do it. Just like a troll but in real life.

So you are not thinking of your children or others just yourself and your drama and being out of step with the world gives you that.

My instinct here is to run with the drama queen option.

So Jimmy Garlic your new years resolution should be to think of others and not yourself and if you have 2 options ,one that is controvercial and the other not to go with the least controvercial option.

tallaghtmick

well i hope your child enjoys being bullied in school as thats what gonna happen,if a child ends up being so serious the other kids will think she's weird and pick on her......enjoy her teenage years op

testicle

The Kids are 17 & 18 yeah?

CDfm

tallaghtmick wrote: »

well i hope your child enjoys being bullied in school as thats what gonna happen,if a child ends up being so serious the other kids will think she's weird and pick on her......enjoy her teenage years op

+1 Snap

Mr Benevolent

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Basically I told my sisters children that santa didn't exist and the red and white Santa character was created by coca cola marketers in the early 1930s. I never lied to my 3 children, if they ask me a question I will answer it truthfully, I never led them to believe that santa existed.. We constantly tell our children not to lie, if you lead your children to believe that santa exists then you are a liar and a hypocrite.

Eh? Show me a person who isn't a liar and hypocrite . This is Ireland after all.

CDfm

Confab wrote: »

Eh? Show me a person who isn't a liar and hypocrite . This is Ireland after all.

Does my bum look big in this :cool:

danbohan

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Oh grow up. Would you accuse me of being a troll if you agreed with me?..I don't think so.

if anybody needs to grow up its you , trolls can be cute , you are an unhappy dysfunctional jerk .

Doom

I cannot believe that you don't let your children believe in the magic of christmas, did you ever see the pure delight and happiness in their eyes when they talk about Santa.
I don't think they will ever thank you for this when they are old enough to realize their uncle is a cnut, and tell you to stay away from their kids ya sicko

pickarooney

Improbable wrote: »

I would consider it terrible if it's supposed to be a fish and looks nothing like one. Constructive criticism is of course good but that's not the point. The point is that you wouldn't tell them flat out that its just bad because you wouldn't want to hurt their feelings (presumably). So you're protecting them in one way but then "harming" them in another.

I don't think there's any comparison to be honest. Any critique of the child's artwork is subjective whereas the existence or not of Santa Claus is fact. Just because you might not like his or her interpretation of a fish doesn't mean that someone else won't or that it's inherently awful. Your saying "It's terrible" realyl equates to "I don't like it, personally" which is more comparable to telling a child that while you don't beleive in Santa there's no reason he or she shouldn't.

We haven't brought up the subject with our kids but if and when they come home with stories about him we wouldn't just say "It's lies" but let them believe what they want.

Wait..

there's no such thing as Santa?

pickarooney

Deleted User wrote: »

Wait..

there's no such thing as Santa?

IMO

Sanjuro

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

the next day i went to have a few words with her teacher. I asked her if she encouraged lying, if she had a problem with the truth and if she had double standards, she was completely stumped, the look of shock on her face was priceless.. not a peep out of her since.

First of all, I call shennanigans on this ever happening. But I'll play devil's advocate and say if I had been the teacher, I'd have told you to fuck off out of my classroom. There is a massive difference between lying and preserving the innocence and joy of a child. Some of the favorite and most find memories I have are associated with belief in Santa Claus. Memorial I intend to recreate in some manner for my own children. Is rather 'lie' to them than make myself out to be some miserable, joyless, unimaginative tit.

MarkR

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Basically I told my sisters children that santa didn't exist and the red and white Santa character was created by coca cola marketers in the early 1930s. I never lied to my 3 children, if they ask me a question I will answer it truthfully, I never led them to believe that santa existed.. We constantly tell our children not to lie, if you lead your children to believe that santa exists then you are a liar and a hypocrite.

What right did you have to tell them? If this is real, then it is irresponsible. It's up to every parent to decide at what stage they want to ruin the magic of Christmas.

Did you discuss it with their mother beforehand?

Improbable

pickarooney wrote: »

I don't think there's any comparison to be honest. Any critique of the child's artwork is subjective whereas the existence or not of Santa Claus is fact. Just because you might not like his or her interpretation of a fish doesn't mean that someone else won't or that it's inherently awful. Your saying "It's terrible" realyl equates to "I don't like it, personally" which is more comparable to telling a child that while you don't beleive in Santa there's no reason he or she shouldn't.

We haven't brought up the subject with our kids but if and when they come home with stories about him we wouldn't just say "It's lies" but let them believe what they want.

You're still missing the point. If you thought it was terrible, would you tell them? Or would you protect that from that ugly truth? We're not debating the merits of artistic interpretation.

Rabble Rabble

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Oh grow up. Would you accuse me of being a troll if you agreed with me?..I don't think so.

Here is what you said in a thread where you fed a vegan pork ( and an egg mixture by accident).

. As regards the pork, what she doesn't know won't hurt her, i will keep the peace and say nothing.

Which is a lie of omission. So with adults it is ok to lie to keep the peace, with children ( not his own) it is essential to tell the truth and destroy their childhood. ( It is not even clear they asked, either, why would a santa believer ask his or her uncle whether it existed, or not? So you brought it up).

OP just likes causing pain for children.

pickarooney

Improbable wrote: »

You're still missing the point. If you thought it was terrible, would you tell them? Or would you protect that from that ugly truth? We're not debating the merits of artistic interpretation.

I've already answered this a few times. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion is 'the (ugly) truth'.

I also don't believe the OP in that I doubt very much the children asked him straight out if Santa exists (unless they already knew and just wanted someone older to confirm it) or would have paid a blind bit of notice to him if he just randomly started preaching to them about marketing devices.

CDfm

pickarooney wrote: »

IMO

Well my girlfriend gets santa presents and so did my kids at 20 & 17.

This year I didnt go outside and make sleigh noises cos it was too cold.

I think I got away with it.

Cook my sock

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Basically I told my sisters children that santa didn't exist and the red and white Santa character was created by coca cola marketers in the early 1930s. I never lied to my 3 children, if they ask me a question I will answer it truthfully, I never led them to believe that santa existed.. We constantly tell our children not to lie, if you lead your children to believe that santa exists then you are a liar and a hypocrite.

I dont like this post. attack the post not the poster blah. trying hard...
did you have a childhood?

Rabble Rabble

pickarooney wrote: »

I've already answered this a few times. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion is 'the (ugly) truth'.

I also don't believe the OP in that I doubt very much the children asked him straight out if Santa exists (unless they already knew and just wanted someone older to confirm it) or would have paid a blind bit of notice to him if he just randomly started preaching to them about marketing devices.

What possibly happened there is they heard it from their cousins..... and asked the father.

pickarooney

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

What possibly happened there is they heard it from their cousins..... and asked the father.

That's usually how it goes. They'll hear it from someone at some stage. Some pretend to keep believing as it makes their parents happy and/or assures that they will keep getting presents. Some have a belief stronger than contrary opinions and some will just slowly realise that it's all a sweet sham. Very rarely does a child have a dream shattered in one cold moment and as for 'destroying their childhood' - this is borderline insulting to children who have grown up seriously bad circumstances.

Rabble Rabble

pickarooney wrote: »

That's usually how it goes. They'll hear it from someone at some stage. Some pretend to keep believing as it makes their parents happy and/or assures that they will keep getting presents. Some have a belief stronger than contrary opinions and some will just slowly realise that it's all a sweet sham. Very rarely does a child have a dream shattered in one cold moment and as for 'destroying their childhood' - this is borderline insulting to children who have grown up seriously bad circumstances.

We dont know the ages of the children involved here. An Adult with authority who tells a 5 year old that Santa doesn't exist will probably be believed.

gerryo777

Jimmy Garlic is a cnut.
God help these poor kids, I think one of his/hers is only 6.
This person has a really warped mind and if his/her sister or anyone from this family is reading this they really should get some psychiatric help soon!

opinion guy

Holy Jesus and Mary mother of God, and Joseph and all the Saints......

....err......oh ......wait.

Gotta say folks - the hysterical reactions here are shocking. The OP may be trolling, and if he isn't then maybe he didn't go about things the right way - but in principle he's absolutely right. Its simply wrong to encourage kids to believe in makey-upey rubbish like santa. And its abundantly ABUNDANTLY obvious throughout this thread that the parents on here are defending this practice for their own selfish reasons - not whats good for the child. All this - oh I love to see the joy in their faces ****e is entirely for the parents amusement. You can have joy in a kids face without lying to them about santa and bribing them with gifts. You do realise its the gifts that make them smile don't you ? Ever watch a kid get a present - they couldn't give a fiddlers who gives them the present once its in their hands they are just happy to rip it open and play with it and only say thanks when mammy or daddy reminds them to.

Case in point:

Jet Black wrote: »

I know someone who did this with their kids. The get an argos book before christmas and highlight what they want. Sounds fun:-) christmas eve and day was a real barrel of laughs in that household.
I love seeing the excitement on my childs face and would not give it up for anything.

Just because you know someone who lets them pick from and Argos catalog doesn't mean this is th eonly way to do it after you get rid of santa. You could equally say "look what mum and dad bought you for being so good this year" after putting some thoughtfulness into a present.

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is worse.
A lie that draws a smile, or a truth that draws a tear?

Err.....seriously ?? You're actually asking this question ? The lie is a thousand times the worser. For once the tear of a truth is shed, you accept it and move on. Lies only delay the inevitable tears that must eventually come - the longer the delay the more tears.

If there is anyone to feel sorry for it's the OP. It's the most magical and wonderful feeling in the world to watch your children get so excited about Santa. I would hate to miss out on all of that. Miss out on writing letters, miss out on a big trip to see the man himself, miss out on baking cookies to leave out on Christmas eve, miss out on being woken up at 7 in the morning with a big smile wondering if he has been yet.

Yep, the OP is missing out big time poor thing.

Again case in point - Santa is for the parents.

Deleted User wrote: »

OP, that was not a decision for you to make. It was your sister's. You are not their parent, she is.

A fair point - and I agree.

You deserve to be ostracised, and your children taken from you. I see no difference between your "parenting" and those hicks in the US who go protest at US servicemen funerals. The less children raised to your unattainable standards of "perfection" the better.

If I knew anyone who'd do that to someone else's kids, I'd slap them in the face.

What ? Are you serious ? You'd assault another adult for telling a child a truth about something ? You need help for your anger issues so.



Aside:

Maldjd23 wrote: »

Not sure the name Jimmy Garlic confirms it's a he??..(that said i have had a few beers so forgive me if i am wrong, just like i will forgive you for focusing on a mute point)....Am pretty sure a person can choose their username as they wish...Does not matter if they choose Jimmy or Julie now really thou does it??...Their opinion remains the same...I think we agree on the Op's actions...Have to admit i don't remember that tale about St.Nick...To me he was Santa...Nothing more and nothing less...I also remember being thought as a kid you help people in need no matter the season...I don't need a guy in a red hat(or whatever colour the OP likes) to tell me that...

I must say - spectacular post. Do we have a drunken post of the week award on boards ??? We should do.

Optimalprimerib

When I was told by my sister when I was 5 that Santa does not exist I didn't believe her, but said I did to humour her. I reckon every person you know does the exact same to you op just to keep you quiet. You have your reasons as idiotic as they are, but I would say behind your back everyone is rolling their eyes thinking just let him/her be he/she won't stop hassling you until you agree.

Man I love threads that get the blood flowing

Cook my sock

opinion guy wrote: »

Holy Jesus and Mary mother of God, and Joseph and all the Saints......

....err......oh ......wait.

Gotta say folks - the hysterical reactions here are shocking. The OP may be trolling, and if he isn't then maybe he didn't go about things the right way - but in principle he's absolutely right. Its simply wrong to encourage kids to believe in makey-upey rubbish like santa. And its abundantly ABUNDANTLY obvious throughout this thread that the parents on here are defending this practice for their own selfish reasons - not whats good for the child. All this - oh I love to see the joy in their faces ****e is entirely for the parents amusement. You can have joy in a kids face without lying to them about santa and bribing them with gifts. You do realise its the gifts that make them smile don't you ? Ever watch a kid get a present - they couldn't give a fiddlers who gives them the present once its in their hands they are just happy to rip it open and play with it and only say thanks when mammy or daddy reminds them to.

Case in point:


Just because you know someone who lets them pick from and Argos catalog doesn't mean this is th eonly way to do it after you get rid of santa. You could equally say "look what mum and dad bought you for being so good this year" after putting some thoughtfulness into a present.


Err.....seriously ?? You're actually asking this question ? The lie is a thousand times the worser. For once the tear of a truth is shed, you accept it and move on. Lies only delay the inevitable tears that must eventually come - the longer the delay the more tears.



Again case in point - Santa is for the parents.



A fair point - and I agree.



What ? Are you serious ? You'd assault another adult for telling a child a truth about something ? You need help for your anger issues so.



Aside:



I must say - spectacular post. Do we have a drunken post of the week award on boards ??? We should do.

for this whole tl;dr thread, i agree with all this.

tfitzgerald

gerryo777 wrote: »

Jimmy Garlic is a cnut.
God help these poor kids, I think one of his/hers is only 6.
This person has a really warped mind and if his/her sister or anyone from this family is reading this they really should get some psychiatric help soon!

I agree entirely with this post the op needs to get some help

AntiMatter

I agree with Opinion Guy as regards the reactions and accusations levelled at the OP. Some of them are priceless.

Rabble Rabble

opinion guy wrote: »

Gotta say folks - the hysterical reactions here are shocking. The OP may be trolling, and if he isn't then maybe he didn't go about things the right way - but in principle he's absolutely right.

Ho he is not not right. Lying to children to make them feel safe or loved is standard human practice. Will daddy get a new job? Not a hope. Will uncle Henry come back from the war - not a hope, mate. Will you always be there for me. No. I will die and that is it.

Santa is, indeed, magical for children. Does it cause any harm - of course not. And so what if parents ( and I am not one) get enjoyment from the enjoyment of their kids. Thats a natural human response too.

If you saw my previous post the OP started a thread about lying to his vegetarian friend - he decided to go with it. This seems to be an indication that lies can be a Good Thing. If for adults, then not for children.

Here's my guess ( if the whole thing is not a troll). The kids will grow up, remember the problems they had at school when they told people about Santa , teach their kids about Santa and Grandpa Garlic will not be invited to their Christmasses.

CDfm

Improbable wrote: »

You're still missing the point. If you thought it was terrible, would you tell them? Or would you protect that from that ugly truth? We're not debating the merits of artistic interpretation.

+1

And the OP made a big thing about Coca Cola marketing in the 1930's whereas the history of Santa Claus is much much older than that in both the Christian and is even in Norse/Viking pagan traditions and no one really knows how oldit is but it evolved in different cultures and beliefs seperately.


Its probably a festive thing that evolved to break the monotany and hardship of winter.

Here is a good link on it with lots of resourses off it.

Over the course of the medieval period the legend of St Nicholas continued to develop and spread enormously, especially after the theft of his relics and their translation to Bari in southern Italy in 1087. Indeed, the cult of St Nicholas eventually rivalled that of the Virgin Mary in many regions, to judge from church dedications. In addition to becoming the patron of sailors as part of this process, St Nicholas also became known as the patron of children. This important development was a consequence of the popular tale of his rescue from death of three children, who had been pickled for eating by an innkeeper. When combined with his reputation as a gift-giver, all the key elements were in place for the transformation of St Nicholas into the modern giver-of-gifts to children. The most significant manifestation of this, from the perspective of Santa Claus, is the Dutch Sinterklaas. Whilst Sinterklaas clearly derives from St Nicholas and his feast-day of the 6 December, he differs from the earlier portraits of St Nicholas in a number of ways, not least in his flying white horse. These differences are usually explained as a result of the legends of St Nicholas being fused in the medieval period with those of the former pagan god Wodan (the Norse Odin, who did possess a flying horse named Sleipnir), although one does have to wonder whether all of the aspects of the legend of Sinterklaas which are sometimes claimed to derive from this fusion really do so. Whatever the case may be, in the Early Modern era there were several unsuccessful attempts to stamp out the Sinterklaas tradition for religious reasons; more recently it has been attacked as a 'racialized tradition', due to Sinterklaas' companion Black Pete, but it remains nonetheless popular in Holland.

http://www.arthuriana.co.uk/xmas/pages/folklore.htm

So if the OP or anyone else is going to kick out against a tradition they should at least know what that tradition is that they are kicking against and not so anti US or anti Coca Cola belief .

People have always spoiled kids at this time of year -for ever.

Rabble Rabble

AntiMatter wrote: »

I agree with Opinion Guy as regards the reactions and accusations levelled at the OP. Some of them are priceless.

He told someone else's kids. His own kids are up to him.

Of course that is designed to piss off the kids. To destroy their belief in Santa, and ruin the magic. We already know he lies to adults.

What exactly is wrong with the accusations of calling him a ugly spirited man - since he lies to Adults to keep the peace. he told the truth to children to destroy their Christmasses, all other excuses are nonsensical. He lies when he feels the need.

de Lehman Bruddars

OP, masterful troll sir, can't believe they all bought it. Though it probably wouldn't have worked on other more savvy forums.

*tips hat*

Delancey

Santa ? Tch !

Why parents continue to perpetuate the ongoing myth of a bearded patriarchial figure who regards conformist behaviour in children with consumer goods is quite beyond me . It is , I fear , a symptom of a deeper absence of spirituality :P

AntiMatter

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

He told someone else's kids. His own kids are up to him.

Since I don't know the exact circumstances surrounding his revelation, I'll reserve judgement.

Of course that is designed to piss off the kids. To destroy their belief in Santa, and ruin the magic. We already know he lies to adults.

He lies to adults? He made a genuine mistake regarding a meal he cooked, and omitted to tell the truth. He didn't tell a lie. You're kind of stretching the truth here yourself.

What exactly is wrong with the accusations of calling him a ugly spirited man - since he lies to Adults to keep the peace. he told the truth to children to destroy their Christmasses, all other excuses are nonsensical. He lies when he feels the need.

His stated intention was to be honest with the kids, (i'm assuming in reply to a question), not to destroy their Christmas.

I stopped believing in Santa at the age of 6 or 7, and it didn't ruin the magic of Christmas for the remainder of my childhood.

Optimalprimerib

de Lehman Bruddars wrote: »

OP, masterful troll sir, can't believe they all bought it. Though it probably wouldn't have worked on other more savvy forums.

*tips hat*

The op is a bit like Santa we all know it we just don't want to believe it

Improbable

CDfm wrote: »

And the OP made a big thing about Coca Cola marketing in the 1930's whereas the history of Santa Claus is much much older than that in both the Christian and is even in Norse/Viking pagan traditions and no one really knows how oldit is but it evolved in different cultures and beliefs seperately.

While the tradition of Santa Claus, Sinterclaas, Saint Nicholas did indeed exist long before then, I think the coca cola company did have a fair bit to do with popularisation of the modern image of santa that we have.

up for anything

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

She initially had a bad reaction but once I sat her down and explained my position she cooled down. I spend a lot of time with her children (she is a single mother), I buy them cloths, I feed them in my house, I often look after them and I take one of them to school. I think I have earned the right to have a say in their lives.

You got that wrong!

What you actually think is that you have bought the right to have a say in their lives. If you really are the reasoning, concerned, caring individual and wonderful parent that you feel you are, you would have fobbed her kids off playing for time and you needn't have done it with a lie. Then you would have used the principles of co-parenting and given your sister some dignity and say in the matter by consulting with her on the subject. Instead you rode roughshod over her and her children in your perfect father guise.

Someone who truly gives does not do so in order to receive. A true gift does not come with strings attached.

Your sister 'cooled down'. If I were your sister and dependant on your wonderful, sincere bounty, I would be boiling inside, humiliated and feeling defeated that I had ended up in a position of such helplessness and dependence in one who despised me. The real fact of the matter is not whether you ruined her childrens' belief in Santa Claus but that you have totally debased every act of generosity, help and kindness that you have ever done your sister and you are the one left poorer by your unthinking actions. I pity you.

El Siglo

What a shit thread. OP is obviously a legend for being so forward thinking and anyone propogating the lie is a cretin only out for their own self gratification. Harry Potter is a load of bollocks but look how it was able to get children reading and interested into books, at a time when children can barely spell with all of this text speak nonsense. It's only a few years of santy then by the age of 11 or so, they'll know the truth. You're only a child once and you have decades of reality as an adult then. Thread reminds me of the south park episode where the nativity play was replaced with some minimalist crap because it was offensive to the Jews (Kyle's mom) and then it led to everything being removed because santy, frosty and Christmas trees were also un-pc.

biko

Santa does exist, so there.