End of year report on the Irish team

Dots1982

I'm in work today and have nothing to do so I thought I'd start a thread on the Irish team's performances this year and get a few things off my chest.

Firstly I could not understand how we entered the latest qualification campaign with such optimism. The reason for this optimism was cited to be the team's performance in the game against France. John Giles in particular said that this performance showed that the irish team could play attacking football and this should be the blueprint for Ireland in future. I myself thought the team played well enough against a completely malfuctioning French team who, the subsequent world cup would show was at war with itself. We had chances but Damien Duff, Kevin Doyle, Johns O’Shea and Robbie Keane all failed to convert i.e. we ultimately came up short because we hadn’t the quality of players to capitalise on extremely weak opponents. This is the frequently our problem as our spirited displays only get us so far and we lack the technical quality to cross the threshold from glorious defeat to actual success.

This pattern has continued to the start of this qualifying campaign. The blame for the lacklustre start to the campaign has being laid at trappatoni’s door. I personally think this is unfair. For me the blame should be shared between the manager and the players.

Irish players this season have endured a miserable season so far, especially our most established players: Shay Given, Robbie Keane, Glenn Whelan, Keith Andrews, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne and Kevin Doyle. Some of these players have being the victim of unfortunate circumstances but the truth is the way to get a manager to pick you week-in and week-out is to make yourself undroppable and all of these players have failed to do that with the possible exception Kevin Doyle. Shay Given and Robbie Keane are particularly culpable since the writing was on the wall for these players at the start of the season yet they choose to sit on the bench. I will come back to Robbie later as his conduct in particular disgusts me. My overall point is that Trap is being blamed for the team not playing well when a cursory look at our established players performances for their clubs or lackthereof would suggest that they are mostly has-beens or in poor form.

With the depressing performances of our established players there has being little to fill the void apart from a few promising youngsters. The most promising of which in my view is Greg Cunningham. Seamus Coleman is the most feted irish player of the season so far however from watching him he looks worryingly limited. He appears to be a head-down and run to the touchline merchant which is ok if your Gareth Bale but it is clear he is not at that level. His use of the ball and his ability to play tactically astute passes has so far looked very limited. There are however a lot of players who could make a major breakthrough for the next campaign and hopefully all of these can be given matchtime in the home internationals tournament coming up next year. My worry however is that trap will only throw in 2 or 3 debutants and stay with the tried and tested. This would be a disaster in my opinion. I would like to see all of the below players get game time in that tournament next year:


Keiran Westwood
Greg Cunningham
Shane Duffy
Marc Wilson
Seamus Coleman
Keith Fahey
Conor Clifford
Robert Brady
Darron Gibson
David Meyler
Kevin Foley
Stephen Ward
Shane Long
Noel Hunt
Leon Best

Returning to Robbie Keane I had to laugh at his hypocrisy when he suggested 2 weeks ago that if Stephen Ireland was English the media there would have slaughtered him for not playing for his country and he can’t understand how he gets off so easy by the media in Ireland. I would equally suggest that if Robbie Keane was England’s main striker he would have got some amount of flack for his sorry performances in this qual campaign so far especially against Slovakia and Armenia where he produced two of the worst performances by any Irish striker I have seen in 20 years of following the team. Robbie seems to polarise opinion between two extremes, those who can’t seem to see him doing any wrong and those who think he is overrated and only performs against international minnows. I have gone from the first camp to a camp close to the second one. I base this on the fact that his last bit of decent form outside of Scotland came in 07-08 season; two and a half seasons ago. I believe that in this time Robbie has gone from being an explosive unpredictable frustrating but brilliant flair player to being a passenger on the field in open play and only really there for tap-ins, penalties and the odd one on one though he normally misses these.

I am also extremely frustrated by the fact that very few seem to have noticed this diminishment in form. People who blame the fact that Robbie organised the Christmas party in Dublin as the reason Harry doesn’t like him miss the bigger picture that Redknapp simply sees Robbie as a good lad around the training ground but not really a top-half premiership striker anymore.

Robbie if recent press reports are to be believed also can’t see himself taking a wage cut if he is going to move. The fact that to earn 80,000 a week and play every week you have to actually deserve it is lost on him. Robbie wants both but that is simply not realistic for a player who has been crap for two and a half seasons.

My main issue with Trap is that he speaks pigeon English that would make Fabio Capello look like Stephen Fry. Without Liam Brady to act as translator I really wonder how it works in the dressing room when hes trying to give a team talk. I think hes a very conservative manager which would be ok if he had a Roy Keane or Liam Brady to provide dynamism but sadly we don't so what we are is tough to break down but not capable of anything unpredicable to stretch teams.

So that is my end of term report, the prospects of qualifying for Poland/Ukraine are slim in my view unless there is major work done to the squad or our established players all get moves to clubs that are going to pick them on a weekly basis.

slingerz

Qualification is slim as long as Trappatoni remains in charge.

Ireland have enough players playing at a high enough level to be optimistic about qualifying for every tournament.

However, overlooking the likes of James McCarthy, David Meyler, Seamus Coleman, Andy Reid etc will not do Ireland's chances any good.

ctrl-alt-delete

slingerz wrote: »

Qualification is slim as long as Trappatoni remains in charge.

Ireland have enough players playing at a high enough level to be optimistic about qualifying for every tournament.

However, overlooking the likes of James McCarthy, David Meyler, Seamus Coleman, Andy Reid etc will not do Ireland's chances any good.

In fairness Meyler is just back now from a serious injury, he has made 2 sub appearance now this season.

I do hope he will be considered in future squads, he always looks good in the middle of the park, and is the type of player Trap wants there.

keane2097

Some valid points in the OP, but our tactical approach in games, along with baffling squad and team selections, had been the biggest contributor to our lack of success.

monkey9

I've had enough of Trappatoni to be honest. One of the greats in his time, but his time is gone. He's not worth the wages he's on.

There are other managers out there who can get more out of an Irish squad.

IvySlayer

Just want a manager that will look to attack the other team. The ultra defensive tactics of Kerr, Staunton, Trap and McCarthy are not nice to follow

I would love an Ian Holloway or an Owen Coyle.

Dots1982

Seems that the early posters seem to be still happy to blame Trap for our shortcomings.

I would be wary of knocking Trap till we see who the FAI would line up as his replacement. I could see Chris Hughton getting the job and personally I would think that would not be an improvement.

Owen Coyle and Martin O'Neill are obviously pipe dreams, Coyle especially is destined for bigger things.

Russians say Advocaat is a conservative manager but look what they did to us, Because their players are comfortable on the ball. Ours especially our central midfielders are not.

Wolfe Tone

I want Delap in the setup, would give us something extra, and he is a guy who plays every week.

Fr Tod Umptious

slingerz wrote: »

Qualification is slim as long as Trappatoni remains in charge.

Ireland have enough players playing at a high enough level to be optimistic about qualifying for every tournament.

However, overlooking the likes of James McCarthy, David Meyler, Seamus Coleman, Andy Reid etc will not do Ireland's chances any good.

What players playing at a high level ?
Our two most experienced are not getting games with their clubs and the rest are in the bottom half of the EPL or lower.

Pauleta

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I want Delap in the setup, would give us something extra, and he is a guy who plays every week.

Fully agree. The man puts the fear of god into some of the best club teams on the planet. Imagine the carnage he would cause in International football. Ive heard people say he would be a great plan B, feck that he should be plan A and its not as if he is a rubbish footballer either.

SantryRed

Trap Out

AgileMyth

Dots1982 wrote: »

I would equally suggest that if Robbie Keane was England’s main striker he would have got some amount of flack for his sorry performances in this qual campaign so far especially against Slovakia and Armenia where he produced two of the worst performances by any Irish striker I have seen in 20 years of following the team.

Robbie has consistently scored goals for us, its not his fault Trap refuses to play anyone that can pass a ball.
If he was England's main striker and had more than doubled their goalscoring record he would be untouchable in the media.

Dots1982

AgileMyth wrote: »

Robbie has consistently scored goals for us, its not his fault Trap refuses to play anyone that can pass a ball.
If he was England's main striker and had more than doubled their goalscoring record he would be untouchable in the media.

With respect that's completely deluded, Wayne Rooney and michael owen are both superior strikers to RK and they get horrendous flack. Robbie keane managed half a season at a club with title aspirations before being shipped out so saying that he was at a level good enough to score 98 goals for England is just nonsense.

noodler

Russia was the first time Trap's tactics /formation/ mindset whatever brought an undeniable disaster in terms of performance (and result).

There have been other games against Bulgaria, Montenagro etc where we feel qw could have stepped it up a bit alright.

I hope he modifies his selections, tactics etc a little. We can barely afford another defeat imo.

At the moment thoigh, the squad is in absolute tatters in many ways, Dunne and Ireland can't get in their squads, Keane and Given can't get a game. I mean, with these guys off form I honestly wonde what sort of chance we have.

noodler

Dots1982 wrote: »

With respect that's completely deluded, Wayne Rooney and michael owen are both superior strikers to RK and they get horrendous flack. Robbie keane managed half a season at a club with title aspirations before being shipped out so saying that he was at a level good enough to score 98 goals for England is just nonsense.

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Dots1982

noodler wrote: »

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Sorry, I read the post as saying that if robbie was English he would have doubled their scoring record. What he actually said was a good point which I take on board but it leads to the opinion that he can do no wrong which is an attitude that does not serve the general good for Irish football. Shane longs
achievements in football are modest even
compared to robbie but if robbie doesn't leave in the window n stays n takes the money will the robbie loyalists have doubts.

AgileMyth

Dots1982 wrote: »

Sorry, I read the post as saying that if robbie was English he would have doubled their scoring record. What he actually said was a good point which I take on board but it leads to the opinion that he can do no wrong which is an attitude that does not serve the general good for Irish football. Shane longs
achievements in football are modest even
compared to robbie but if robbie doesn't leave in the window n stays n takes the money will the robbie loyalists have doubts.

I wasn't trying to say that he can do no wrong, just that he doesn't deserve the criticism he gets here. We're too quick to forget what hes done for us.

Dots1982

AgileMyth wrote: »

I wasn't trying to say that he can do no wrong, just that he doesn't deserve the criticism he gets here. We're too quick to forget what hes done for us.

It's a fickle game, robbie is the captain ahead of Richard dunne and shay given, he has to justify that. His performances lately haven't done that and his attitude to getting his form back seems to be a "show me the money first" when looking at new clubs.

Mr.Nice Guy

Dots1982 wrote: »

It's a fickle game, robbie is the captain ahead of Richard dunne and shay given, he has to justify that. His performances lately haven't done that and his attitude to getting his form back seems to be a "show me the money first" when looking at new clubs.

He's got 2 goals in the 4 group games. It would be 3 goals had he converted the penalty against Slovakia. That's not bad going for a guy that is feeding off scraps and getting f*ck all service at times. What more do you want? I'm not going to bash the guy like some chose to do after the last qualifier just because he missed a penalty. He''s scored more of them than he's missed (like the one against Russia in the match before).

And if there are Irish fans who actually believe Robbie Keane has to justify himself then please just give up on the sport because these people clearly haven't paid enough attention for the last decade plus. He is our all-time leading goal scorer and has shown himself to be a man for the big occasion time and time again. France, Italy, Germany, Spain, I could go on and on. Fickle game? No mate. Fickle fans.

Pro. F

Dots1982 wrote: »

It's a fickle game, robbie is the captain ahead of Richard dunne and shay given, he has to justify that. His performances lately haven't done that and his attitude to getting his form back seems to be a "show me the money first" when looking at new clubs.

No it's not a fickle game. Some fans are fickle. You may or may not fall into that category.

He has every right to try and get the best wages he can. He has his family to support.

When playing for the national team he gives it everything and has scored endless amounts of important goals for us.

He is a finisher. If the team isn't passing the ball and providing him with opportunities to score he can't make them for himself. He just isn't that type of player.

Dots1982 wrote: »

Russians say Advocaat is a conservative manager but look what they did to us, Because their players are comfortable on the ball. Ours especially our central midfielders are not.

Advocat isn't as conservative as Trap. Even if he was, it wouldn't really matter. We need a manager who will pick the best players and get the most out of them. Trap does neither.

I'm not saying that all our problems are down to Trap. I agree with you that we do have a weak squad in general. And I think you're right that we wouldn't necessarily be able to get a better manager to replace him. But Trap still has to take a fair amount of blame for our current state imo.

Raskolnikov

I really do have to laugh when people give Robbie Keane flack. He's the best striker that we've ever produced, the all-time leading goal scorer who is a garden mile better than the rest, and who has scored key goals for us and has always given it his all, even if the ability wasn't there everytime.

FFS guys, what are the alternatives?

Shane Long has only found his level in the Championship and his hardly even prolific there.
Noel Hunt falls into the same bracket as Long except he is probably an even more inferior option.
Leon Best is a reservist for Newcastle United who is clearly a garden mile off Keane/Doyle standards.

Until we're shown otherwise, only an idiot would fail to play both Keane and Doyle when both are fit.

Dots1982

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He's got 2 goals in the 4 group games. It would be 3 goals had he converted the penalty against Slovakia. That's not bad going for a guy that is feeding off scraps and getting f*ck all service at times. What more do you want? I'm not going to bash the guy like some chose to do after the last qualifier just because he missed a penalty. He''s scored more of them than he's missed (like the one against Russia in the match before).

And if there are Irish fans who actually believe Robbie Keane has to justify himself then please just give up on the sport because these people clearly haven't paid enough attention for the last decade plus. He is our all-time leading goal scorer and has shown himself to be a man for the big occasion time and time again. France, Italy, Germany, Spain, I could go on and on. Fickle game? No mate. Fickle fans.

Crap service? That's bull****. He missed 2 one on ones vs Armenia and a penalty, a one on one and a tap in vs slovakia. For a player who does nothing to bring other players into the game and is only there to score goals he is not justifying his shirt.
He isn't prepared to take a wage cut even though his club form since 07-08 is rubbish.*

He wanted a million bonus if west ham stay*up. Note that he wanted a million regardless*Of how many goals he would score.
I'm sick of people Saying he tries his heart out when all he does lately is goalhang n wait to be setup by someone else for a penalty, tap in & one on one while kevin Doyle does all the legwork.*
It's grand saying he's our record goalscorer and all the great things he has done but if he's loss his focus you can't wait around saying he done it 3 years ago so let's hold tight cos he'll do it again.*

Raskolnikov

Dots1982 wrote: »

Keiran Westwood - Given is still our best option until proven otherwise.
Greg Cunningham - One for the future, needs more games
Shane Duffy - Too young and not enough experience
Marc Wilson - Needs a string of games
Seamus Coleman - I agree with you on this, I suspect he will get more game time though
Keith Fahey - Does not seem much better or worse than existing options
Conor Clifford - Needs games at a higher level
Robert Brady - I haven't even heard of him!
Darron Gibson - Squad player, nothing more
David Meyler - Needs first team performances
Kevin Foley - Squad player
Stephen Ward - Not good enough
Shane Long - Squad player
Noel Hunt - Not good enough
Leon Best - Not good enough

Out of all the players you have mentioned, only Coleman definitely deserves a shot at the first team. If Meyler can produce some of the form we saw from him last year consistently, then he will deserve a shot. Fahey has played himself into contention merely by being fit. Other than that I am not convinced about the rest.

If I was picking the team, I would play 442 with the following

GK Given
DR Coleman
DL O'Shea
DC Ledger
DC Dunne
MR McGeady/Duff
ML Duff/McGeady
MC Andrews/Fahey
MC Whelan
ST Doyle
ST Keane

The only real worry I have about the team is in the centre of midfield. We can complain all we like, but the simple fact is that we don't have a single quality player for this position. Until someone plays their way into contention - we're always going to be complaining.

keane2097

This is needlessly turning into a Robbie Keane bashing exercise when Robbie Keane is so far from Ireland's problem it's ridic.

steelcityblues

Robbie Keane still needs to play because there simply isn't the younger talent coming through up front to replace him! The fact that he still scored against France and Italy despite his club problems means you can never say never.

Plus, Kevin Doyle has always been a borderline top level player for me, and since he's left Reading this is noticeable.

Not even sure if we will make the playoffs - because the current guy is far too fond of setting us up not to lose rather then to go out all guns blazing for the big matches.

Raskolnikov

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

And if there are Irish fans who actually believe Robbie Keane has to justify himself then please just give up on the sport

Robbie Keane out!

Bring back Clinton Morrison and Gary Doherty, I say!

Mr.Nice Guy

Dots1982 wrote: »

Crap service? That's bull****. He missed 2 one on ones vs Armenia and a penalty, a one on one and a tap in vs slovakia. For a player who does nothing to bring other players into the game and is only there to score goals he is not justifying his shirt.
He isn't prepared to take a wage cut even though his club form since 07-08 is rubbish.*

He wanted a million bonus if west ham stay*up. Note that he wanted a million regardless*Of how many goals he would score.
I'm sick of people Saying he tries his heart out when all he does lately is goalhang n wait to be setup by someone else for a penalty, tap in & one on one while kevin Doyle does all the legwork.*
It's grand saying he's our record goalscorer and all the great things he has done but if he's loss his focus you can't wait around saying he done it 3 years ago so let's hold tight cos he'll do it again.*

Please. He scored 5 goals in the 2010 qualifying campaign putting him level with Berbatov at the top of the charts (It's 6 if you count the one in Paris). You act as if he's finished but as I pointed out previously he has 2 in 4 games in this campaign already (would be 3 if the peno was scored) and this is in a year when he is not getting game time at his club. Yes he missed chances in this group because he's a bit rusty. I'm sure the chap himself would acknowledge as much, but a true supporter would get behind someone who has offered so much for the team rather than bitching about misses he may have made when not 100% sharp. You can argue he gets good service but I don't buy it. In the last campaign the team was frequently deprived of possession for large periods and frankly his goals haul there is remarkable considering the supply and the central midfielders behind him who offer little to no creativity.

The reality is there is no alternative to Keane in terms of a top striker leading the line. He is the best we have by a country mile. The Keane haters refuse to acknowlege this. I like Shane Long and like to see him do well but the guy is not and never will be in the class of Robbie Keane. That is a fact.

I've no idea either by the way how you know what the man did or did not request from West Ham. Are you his agent? If what you say is true I wouldn't blame him because in my view the owners of West Ham are an embarrassment and he ought to demand a hefty sum to be subjected to Gold's circus project.

Keane has been a great servant for the Irish team and the fans should get behind him instead of getting on his back.

Pro. F

Dots1982 wrote: »

Crap service? That's bull****. He missed 2 one on ones vs Armenia and a penalty, a one on one and a tap in vs slovakia. For a player who does nothing to bring other players into the game and is only there to score goals he is not justifying his shirt.
He isn't prepared to take a wage cut even though his club form since 07-08 is rubbish.*

He wanted a million bonus if west ham stay*up. Note that he wanted a million regardless*Of how many goals he would score.
I'm sick of people Saying he tries his heart out when all he does lately is goalhang n wait to be setup by someone else for a penalty, tap in & one on one while kevin Doyle does all the legwork.*
It's grand saying he's our record goalscorer and all the great things he has done but if he's loss his focus you can't wait around saying he done it 3 years ago so let's hold tight cos he'll do it again.*

Of course it's been crap service. What freaking games have you been watching?
So he missed a few chances, shít happens. His form hasn't been great since he's lost out at Spurs. It's hardly a hanging offence. He's still one of our best strikers.

I think it's possible to justify an argument to drop him but the level of stick you are giving him is totally uncalled for.

And why the fúck should he not try to get the best money he can? He's coming towards the end of his career. He has every right to try for good money.

Dots1982

keane2097 wrote: »

This is needlessly turning into a Robbie Keane bashing exercise when Robbie Keane is so far from Ireland's problem it's ridic.

I wouldn't agree since his performances in each group game hasn't been above A 5 out of 10 and he cost us 2 points in Slovakia.

It seems it will turn into a trap bashing exercise otherwise with no guarantee the fai can afford anyone better.

I talked about other things in the first post and what I think would help us in 2011 if anyone has an opinion on that.

WallyGUFC

Keane is a problem, but so is Given, and Dunne. But the main problem is that we have a manager who doesn't pick the best possible 11 players which I think is criminal. We have better players than Whelan and FFS Paul Green but he sticks with them. I don't understand him. He doesn't even experiment in friendlies.

Not a good year really and I can't see this one being much better. The trip to Moscow will decide whether we qualify or not. I don't think we will, but you never know with any Irish team.

Dots1982

The story on the robbie keane demand for 1 million if west ham stay up came from the indo during the week. Might not be true but if it is then I think it stinks to be honest. No epl club in their right mind would offer RK the same money he's on at spurs. He's just not worth it anymore. I'm hoping he goes to Birmingham. Good club, good manager where the existing strikers are weak.

To the poster that stated they only wanted Coleman getting games with Ireland next year, I was talking about giving them games in the home international tournament which is an excellent oppotunity to blood players 4 the next qual campaign. I would add stokes n McCarthy to the list.

To the poster who said RK would have 3 goals in 4 games if he scored the penalty In Slovakia well if my aunt had balls she be my uncle.

keane2097

Dots1982 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree since his performances in each group game hasn't been above A 5 out of 10 and he cost us 2 points in Slovakia.

It seems it will turn into a trap bashing exercise otherwise with no guarantee the fai can afford anyone better.

I talked about other things in the first post and what I think would help us in 2011 if anyone has an opinion on that.

Pointing out chances he missed is shoddy reasoning tbh, since no striker scores 100% of the chances he gets. Keane's scoring record is fine, which is the main thing.

More importantly, we can't improve on Keane at the moment so whining about him is pointless. On the other hand, we can improve pretty significantly on several other positions simply by picking the right players.

The repeated insanities of including McShane in the squad, picking the likes of Kilbane and Paul Greene, leaving out talented players like McCarthy and Coleman etc etc are things a country with our limited resources just can't afford.

Dots1982

Watching keane so far in this campaign has been tragic. Slovakia especially. But if he moves To the brummies I'd hope he can get some form back but I think the old RK from 07-08 is gone. He would still be good enough for Ireland the way things stand if he's getting regular games in the epl. Harry redknapp is a good judge of a player though and that's another reason why i'd worry.

Moving on After Paris I didn't think mcshane would ever play for Ireland again. Yet on he goes. Very disappointed in trap about that.

Wolfe Tone

How is Ian Harte doing these days? Set pieces still top notch?

Raskolnikov

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

How is Ian Harte doing these days? Set pieces still top notch?

Niall Quinn is still trotting out for the Eadestown Gaelic Football team. Call him up I say!

Wolfe Tone

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Niall Quinn is still trotting out for the Eadestown Gaelic Football team. Call him up I say!

Harte had some top class freekicks in him, something Ireland lack atm.

Dots1982

I don't think we are a shambles apart from the Russian match. We're just very predictable. We have no good central midfielders so what can trap do? A Scott Parker type would be ideal but any of our available players are a long way off that level. Posters who say we have the players to qualify for major tournos are fooling themselves. Our players are not playing at a high level. You look at Bosnia, Belgium, Norway and Scotland. Their players are around our level and they never qualify for anything either. None of our players are "hot properties" that major clubs are interested in. Even the young players I mentioned, none of them are among the best in Europe. Our average player can earn 30k a week for being average. There's not a whole lot of incentive to improve yourself. Compare that with a slovakian, polish etc player who looks upon intl football as a huge shop window to get out of the domestic league and onto a bigger club. That carrott doesn't really exist for our players.

Pro. F

Dots1982 wrote: »

I don't think we are a shambles apart from the Russian match. We're just very predictable. We have no good central midfielders so what can trap do? A Scott Parker type would be ideal but any of our available players are a long way off that level. Posters who say we have the players to qualify for major tournos are fooling themselves. Our players are not playing at a high level. You look at Bosnia, Belgium, Norway and Scotland. Their players are around our level and they never qualify for anything either. None of our players are "hot properties" that major clubs are interested in. Even the young players I mentioned, none of them are among the best in Europe. Our average player can earn 30k a week for being average. There's not a whole lot of incentive to improve yourself. Compare that with a slovakian, polish etc player who looks upon intl football as a huge shop window to get out of the domestic league and onto a bigger club. That carrott doesn't really exist for our players.

What can Trap do? He can select our best players for a start. And stop telling the team to sit deep and play so defensively. We don't have a good selection of players but Trap makes the situation worse.
We have a severe lack of pace in our attack so it's ridiculous to be trying to play a counter attacking game, but Trap does that. We have two small centre forwards so it's ridiculous to use long balls, but Trap does that too. Now maybe you say we lack the skill in midfield to pass it forward, but that plan stands more of a chance than the other two. Also we've been hindered by Trap's conservative and wrong headed selections. How long did it take Trap to realise that Fahey was better than the dross he's been playing in central midfield? Who else are we missing out on because of Trap?

You think our players are less driven when playing international football than the Poles, Slovaks, etc? Have to disagree with that. Of all the criticisms that can be leveled at our international players I would say that lack of drive is the least plausible.


I agree that we shouldn't expect to qualify for tournaments. We are back to being international minnows these days. But it's not all doom and gloom for me. Fahey is looking quite good in the centre (certainly a dramatic improvement over Whelan, Green and Andrews) and Trap can at least do a good job of organising the defence.

slingerz

not only do Ireland have a squad of players that are good enough provided trap has them play the right way but Ireland could do with recruiting some players with irish grannies to help boost the cause.

our striking options aint great so maybe we could pick up someone half decent that way or in the centre of defence

keane2097

Pro. F wrote: »

What can Trap do? He can select our best players for a start. And stop telling the team to sit deep and play so defensively. We don't have a good selection of players but Trap makes the situation worse.
We have a severe lack of pace in our attack so it's ridiculous to be trying to play a counter attacking game, but Trap does that. We have two small centre forwards so it's ridiculous to use long balls, but Trap does that too. Now maybe you say we lack the skill in midfield to pass it forward, but that plan stands more of a chance than the other two. Also we've been hindered by Trap's conservative and wrong headed selections. How long did it take Trap to realise that Fahey was better than the dross he's been playing in central midfield? Who else are we missing out on because of Trap?

You think our players are less driven when playing international football than the Poles, Slovaks, etc? Have to disagree with that. Of all the criticisms that can be leveled at our international players I would say that lack of drive is the least plausible.


I agree that we shouldn't expect to qualify for tournaments. We are back to being international minnows these days. But it's not all doom and gloom for me. Fahey is looking quite good in the centre (certainly a dramatic improvement over Whelan, Green and Andrews) and Trap can at least do a good job of organising the defence.

The bolded bit is a particular irritation to me.

That's what has let him get away with his terrible tactics, this idea that he's a defensive mastermind. In reality, our defense under Trap has been terrible - some of the goals we have given away have been truly embarrassing.

Dots1982

If you thought I was harsh on RK. The Guardian's Jacob Steinburg with the words below:

Robbie Keane successfully woke up this morning, got out of bed without tripping over his own feet and decided the only thing to do was to celebrate with a somersault, before making shooty signs with his fingers at his own reflection in the mirror, looking, as ever, like a toddler playing a game of Cowboys and Indians. Naturally he missed, as is the way for poor old Robbie these days, but that still didn't stop the wayward Tottenham striker from basking in his own reflected glory. On his morning went – things to do after all, parties to plan behind Harry Redknapp's back. He somersaulted to the bathroom and somersaulted into the shower, before somersaulting his way down into the kitchen. He picked up the newspaper, checked the date and did a somersault. The resumption of the transfer window is just three days away, and it looks like Keane is on the move again. The Mill knows what mode of transport he'll be taking. Wolves have decided they need a striker whose last goal was in 1983 and who will spend most of his time embarking on self-glorifying high jinks in the right-back position, whinging at the referee, pointing aimlessly, looking inexplicably pleased with himself and doing somersaults.

noodler

Dots1982 wrote: »

If you thought I was harsh on RK. The Guardian's Jacob Steinburg with the words below:

Robbie Keane successfully woke up this morning, got out of bed without tripping over his own feet and decided the only thing to do was to celebrate with a somersault, before making shooty signs with his fingers at his own reflection in the mirror, looking, as ever, like a toddler playing a game of Cowboys and Indians. Naturally he missed, as is the way for poor old Robbie these days, but that still didn't stop the wayward Tottenham striker from basking in his own reflected glory. On his morning went – things to do after all, parties to plan behind Harry Redknapp's back. He somersaulted to the bathroom and somersaulted into the shower, before somersaulting his way down into the kitchen. He picked up the newspaper, checked the date and did a somersault. The resumption of the transfer window is just three days away, and it looks like Keane is on the move again. The Mill knows what mode of transport he'll be taking. Wolves have decided they need a striker whose last goal was in 1983 and who will spend most of his time embarking on self-glorifying high jinks in the right-back position, whinging at the referee, pointing aimlessly, looking inexplicably pleased with himself and doing somersaults.

Whats the writer's background?

Incredibly unfair to the point of ignorance.

Another article from a British paper about a foreign player - there is no way in hell you would get such bitter, insulting language used against an Englisg national hero.

noodler

In fact let me paint an alternate picture:

Robbie Keane got out of bed today reflecting on his best ever international campaign despite a lack of club football.

Facing Cyprus at home, the entire nation was terrified over the results suffered during Staunton's reign to the same team, but it was the Spurs man who nodded home the opening goal which the Irish went on to keep.

Again, a month later, against a resolute Georgian side, the fortunate Irish got an undeserved penalty which Keane took responsibility for converting. He threw himself at a subsequent to put the Irish in front.

The goals just got more important after that - in Bari a few months later the Irish were trailing to Italy despite having a one-man avantage for the majority of the game. It looked like they were to be denied when Keane latched onto a knock on first time and beat Buffon with his bad foot.

Next was the absolutely crucial goal in Nicosia. In an incredibly tense game Keane converted, in the dieing minutes, an excellent Duff cross into the corner of the Cypriot net with only minutes remaining.

I don't think any description of the beautiful team move which led to the play-off aggregate leveller in Paris in really necessary.

He may have afforded himself a cartwheel or two throughout the campaign but it is unlikely the Irish fans truly cared.

fkiely

Dots1982 wrote: »

I don't think we are a shambles apart from the Russian match. We're just very predictable. We have no good central midfielders so what can trap do? A Scott Parker type would be ideal but any of our available players are a long way off that level. Posters who say we have the players to qualify for major tournos are fooling themselves. Our players are not playing at a high level. You look at Bosnia, Belgium, Norway and Scotland. Their players are around our level and they never qualify for anything either. None of our players are "hot properties" that major clubs are interested in. Even the young players I mentioned, none of them are among the best in Europe. Our average player can earn 30k a week for being average. There's not a whole lot of incentive to improve yourself. Compare that with a slovakian, polish etc player who looks upon intl football as a huge shop window to get out of the domestic league and onto a bigger club. That carrott doesn't really exist for our players.

Mark Noble has learnt an awful lot off Parker over the last while and has adapted his game to inherit a lot of his characteristics. Would be absolutely ideal if possible. Big if though.

Dots1982

The plastic paddy route is a bit depressing, you want players who feel Irish. Mark Noble and Jamie O'Hara (who I would class as presently a better player than Noble) see themselves as English. They would only want to player for Ireland because it makes them more valuable when negotiating a contract with their club.

Keano

Dots1982 wrote: »

The plastic paddy route is a bit depressing, you want players who feel Irish. Mark Noble and Jamie O'Hara (who I would class as presently a better player than Noble) see themselves as English. They would only want to player for Ireland because it makes them more valuable when negotiating a contract with their club.

Give me Robbie Keane over Leon Best any day. Has Best even played 90 mins for Newcastle this year?

Dots1982

noodler wrote: »

Whats the writer's background?

Incredibly unfair to the point of ignorance.

Another article from a British paper about a foreign player - there is no way in hell you would get such bitter, insulting language used against an Englisg national hero.

The article was one of several where an alternative treatment of transfer speculation is given. He doesn't mean any harm in it. See another below.

Oh yes. The Mail can exclusively report that José Mourinho wants to bring Tevez to Real Madrid to replace the injured Gonzalo Higuaín. Now, the Mill is no Geography buff, but Madrid is definitely not in Argentina – in fact, it's not even in South America! – and we were labouring under the impression that that's where Tevez wanted to go. You know. Home. To his family. In Buenos Aires. We were told this had nothing to do with City. Or money. Have we been lied to? Again? The Mill is confused. The report is somewhat undermined by the further revelation that Mourinho is also eyeing a move for City workhorse Emmanuel Adebayor, because if there's one thing José likes in a striker, it's a bad attitude, a poor first touch and a mesmeric inability to STAY ONSIDE, or Manchester United's Javier Hernández. Mourinho will offer Sir Alex Ferguson £21.1m plus Lassana 'Lass' Diarra for the Little Pea. Nah, we can't see it either.

fkiely

Dots1982 wrote: »

The plastic paddy route is a bit depressing, you want players who feel Irish. Mark Noble and Jamie O'Hara (who I would class as presently a better player than Noble) see themselves as English. They would only want to player for Ireland because it makes them more valuable when negotiating a contract with their club.

It is a bit depressing alright but is it any change from the last 20 years or so? Those 'plastic paddies' have given us a lot of good memories over the years and played an instrumental part in our, albeit limited, success.

Dots1982

fkiely wrote: »

It is a bit depressing alright but is it any change from the last 20 years or so? Those 'plastic paddies' have given us a lot of good memories over the years and played an instrumental part in our, albeit limited, success.

What I would say is that if they had declared immediately for ireland when they were first approached then fine. But with O'hara he has being linked with ireland for 2 years and he still hasn't declared. There are rumours he wanted assurances he would be a first pick before declaring. I think him getting picked now would upset the camp more than anything.

I would also add I follow him on twitter to see if he would say anything about ireland but all I can confirm is that he is a flash ponce.

davocesque

First of all, delighted to see this thread because I have been depressed with the performances so far in the current campaign. So many issues, where to start?

First of all, I agree mostly with the OP. RK is an Irish hero, but you cant deny he does miss chances you dont expect a top quality striker to miss, so maybe he's not an out and out striker? A deep lying forward? not a chance, just doesn't have the speed of thought! In saying that, we have to pick him, we have no better options.

Shay Given and Dunne, have also had poor seasons, for different reasons, and in the last few internationals, it was especially obvious with Given who looked nervous, understandable given the lack of playing time he's had.

My biggest concern for the Irish team has been mentioned, Trap simply doesnt pick the best available. McShane and Kilbane, i believe, should not be anywhere near the team, Kilbane must be pushing 46 now, been a legend but time to move on was the end of the last campaign. McShane has been an inspiration to talentless people all over the world (me included), how he ever became a pro never mind an international is beyond me, but now its surely time to let him go!

Paul Green, words just cant describe my hatred for this man. At least McShane is Irish, but to think that Paul Green is in the Irish squad ahead of Andy Reid sickens me. Im not saying Reid is the answer to our problems at all, but the difference in class in so obvious. I understand Trap wants midfielders to work hard without the ball, but surely to god we can get someone better then Green, he's not even good at working hard, he's not lazy, he's just ****e.

A completely new approach is needed. A revamp of the way football in Ireland is coached, we need to stop looking at England as the nation to learn from and look up to. We need to study the game in other countries, ie, Spain, France, Germany and Holland, and copy theyre coaching structure, yes we have a small population, but we should aim to be the best, not England.

Im sick of Ireland taking on rejects from England, yes we have many who served us amazingly, but its time to stop taking another countries no-hopers, especially considering the England team arent exactly setting the world alight with their football!

I could go on and on, but I wont!